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Post by blandie on Jun 7, 2014 20:30:51 GMT -5
Not all sexual acts are accepted by societies even today and western societies don't allow messing around with children and abusing animals in this way isn't tolerated hardly anywhere. I think maybe there are lines to be drawn and it is not good to give free rein to all of our predilections. Some are mentioned in the bible and some aren't and some are just hints that don't lend themselves to extrapolating into some full-blown rule. What it comes down to is the concept of not harming or derailing another - that comes out of selfishness and not love.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 7, 2014 23:35:44 GMT -5
Thanks for your input Dennis. I don't know why He would give an 8,9,10,11 year old over to that lifestyle. I just don't get it, guess we all won't understand until after we are dead. By then it won't matter anymore! -ph- I don't believe all homosexuals are born that way. Take my own grandson for example...when he was a small boy he really liked the pretty girls...Donna Fargo was his top pick of a sweety. He'd get ahold of his daddy's playboy books and look at the books and pat the women's body parts and name them with lust and joy! Even when he was in his early teens, we took him with us to a very special horse show. OUr best friends went with us as well as their daughter and her new boyfriend. The grandson fell in love with this young lady....he sat by her, he followed her all over the place, etc. You can't tell me this male child was born homosexual. Fact is he had a high school sweetheart and they wanted to get married as soon as they graduated. But their parents talked them out of it. The girl went out of state to college, the grandson went to a local community college for the first 2 years of his college courses and this is where he met up with the homosexual crowd. Why did he turn homosexual? Was it on the rebound? Or was it because his own father had given him such a horrible "male image" that the poor young man didn't want to be a c opy of his father, so he changed his orientation? I don't know. It has puzzled me, for as you have more or less implied homosexuals are born that way....but my grandson is not the first and only one that I'v eknown to change streams sometime in life. So yes, I think there are some God does give over to that lifestyle and for me to understand that is not my business, I would guess as God doesn't reveal that to me...so it's my grandson's business as well as any other homosexual's business how and where and when and why they are homosexual. They will answer for their decisions in life as well I am going to answer for mine. Such things can cause a lot of confusion and misunderstandings between people and I don't think that helps anything or anybody.....so as I'm free to choose and do, so is any other person who comes to their majority and legal age to do so as well. And I must just leave it all in the hands of God, for He is the one who understands the heart of mankind. What you've just described is really a very common development pattern for homosexuals. Pre-pubescent children are not sexual -- that is, they're not looking for sex. They're looking for companions of similar interests. That's why little straight boys think girls are gross, until the gonads kick in and then it all changes.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 7, 2014 23:52:27 GMT -5
Quote - " It seems a little strange that God would create a person to be attracted to another person, then kill them when they are actually attracted to them. Sounds not only a bit harsh, but it makes him look like an incompetent creator who has no compassion for those he kills because of his own choice. If anyone should be punished for incompetent creating, it should be God. The truth is, God doesn't kill those whom he created, man makes the judgement to kill or punish them, and blames it on God." You could say the same for adultery - why would God tempt a man with another woman? Or why would God give humans a nature of hate or greed, then punish them for practicing it? The bible says we are given a human body to live in. And we are subjected to these human passions, " For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope."Nothing in nature has been left to the discretion and planning of the human mind. Everything instinct of man is necessary for his survival as a species, otherwise the species would not have continued. It is not by any accident that human kind have the sexual appetites they have -- as far as nature is concerned our sexual nature is no less critical than our need for air, food, and water.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 7, 2014 23:55:36 GMT -5
Not all sexual acts are accepted by societies even today and western societies don't allow messing around with children and abusing animals in this way isn't tolerated hardly anywhere. I think maybe there are lines to be drawn and it is not good to give free rein to all of our predilections. Some are mentioned in the bible and some aren't and some are just hints that don't lend themselves to extrapolating into some full-blown rule. What it comes down to is the concept of not harming or derailing another - that comes out of selfishness and not love. Actually, there is a religious rule about the acceptable manner for a man to have sex with a sheep. I have probably pushed my limits on the "graphics" for this week.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jun 8, 2014 11:18:32 GMT -5
I don't believe all homosexuals are born that way. Take my own grandson for example...when he was a small boy he really liked the pretty girls...Donna Fargo was his top pick of a sweety. He'd get ahold of his daddy's playboy books and look at the books and pat the women's body parts and name them with lust and joy! Even when he was in his early teens, we took him with us to a very special horse show. OUr best friends went with us as well as their daughter and her new boyfriend. The grandson fell in love with this young lady....he sat by her, he followed her all over the place, etc. You can't tell me this male child was born homosexual. Fact is he had a high school sweetheart and they wanted to get married as soon as they graduated. But their parents talked them out of it. The girl went out of state to college, the grandson went to a local community college for the first 2 years of his college courses and this is where he met up with the homosexual crowd. Why did he turn homosexual? Was it on the rebound? Or was it because his own father had given him such a horrible "male image" that the poor young man didn't want to be a c opy of his father, so he changed his orientation? I don't know. It has puzzled me, for as you have more or less implied homosexuals are born that way....but my grandson is not the first and only one that I'v eknown to change streams sometime in life. So yes, I think there are some God does give over to that lifestyle and for me to understand that is not my business, I would guess as God doesn't reveal that to me...so it's my grandson's business as well as any other homosexual's business how and where and when and why they are homosexual. They will answer for their decisions in life as well I am going to answer for mine. Such things can cause a lot of confusion and misunderstandings between people and I don't think that helps anything or anybody.....so as I'm free to choose and do, so is any other person who comes to their majority and legal age to do so as well. And I must just leave it all in the hands of God, for He is the one who understands the heart of mankind. Heh heh, that was a good chuckle. Have you ever heard of bisexuality? There are other identities as well. But then I read your post about guys peeing in cups . . . wow. I bet that was a thrill. I think some minds are much further warped than people like to admit. Yes, mine is one of them - warped beyond your wildest distance-peeing-in-a-cup imagination. Yes, I learned about bisexual persons the day my stepfather blew his own brains out.....there was handwritten tales of his and my brothers many love fests. And a few years before that my mother had called her sister wanting to come "home"....she was very disturbed about something but she would not tell my aunt what. My aunt told her that she had made her own bed and it seemed to her she had to lie in it. Although when we found out my stepfather was a bisexual, had been married many years before and his first wife left him after the first night and had the marriage annulled...we both felt very badly about my aunt forcing my mother to live with a bisexual husband! It still makes me shudder and it wasn't so much that he was bisexual but the things he'd do with a man and then he'd expect sexual privileges with a woman! That was a shock I'm still not over. I have thought perhaps the grandson was bisexual, but of course he's learned that once he came out of the closet with his gay activities, not many women would want to be that intimate with him.,.....it'd have to be someone woman who probably was a bisexual herself and was ready to settle down with a male companion.... BTW that peeing in a cup was a distance cup filling thing between males. I've seen young boys do that in the schoolyards in the back so to speak.....us girls laughing our foolish heads off when the contest was over and the contestants being made aware whether they even hit the can or not and those who did at what footage, etc.....crazy kids! Of course, they didn't know us girls were watching them, though we didn't see a lot as we were several feet behind the contestants and the boys set to watch for the teacher didn't see us either or thought we were too far away...but those contests were quite nosy.....ha ha ha....
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 8, 2014 14:04:30 GMT -5
Actually, there is a religious rule about the acceptable manner for a man to have sex with a sheep. I have probably pushed my limits on the "graphics" for this week. Uhhhh... Yep... probably Not needing graphics, or any other descriptors - what religious tradition does this emanate from?
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 8, 2014 14:24:08 GMT -5
Feeling like you will be struck by lightning is a sound example of successful brainwashing. You've read and they've said that you cannot say or think anything derogative. They won . . . Until now. Yeah. I never quite fit in to the 2X2 world/mindset. I've always kinda prized my intelligence and independent thinking. I've probably always been considered a "fringe-dweller" by the more conservative types - though that was never the way I saw myself at the time. Still, I have the memory approximately 17 - 18 years ago now, when I placed the envelope containing my order for the 2X2 publications to RIS in a mailbox near my workplace. I stood there, waiting for the lightening bolt to strike. It never happened. If there has since been a lightening bolt, it has been one of blessing.
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Post by faune on Jun 8, 2014 14:58:05 GMT -5
Heh heh, that was a good chuckle. Have you ever heard of bisexuality? There are other identities as well. But then I read your post about guys peeing in cups . . . wow. I bet that was a thrill. I think some minds are much further warped than people like to admit. Yes, mine is one of them - warped beyond your wildest distance-peeing-in-a-cup imagination. Yes, I learned about bisexual persons the day my stepfather blew his own brains out.....there was handwritten tales of his and my brothers many love fests. And a few years before that my mother had called her sister wanting to come "home"....she was very disturbed about something but she would not tell my aunt what. My aunt told her that she had made her own bed and it seemed to her she had to lie in it. Although when we found out my stepfather was a bisexual, had been married many years before and his first wife left him after the first night and had the marriage annulled...we both felt very badly about my aunt forcing my mother to live with a bisexual husband! It still makes me shudder and it wasn't so much that he was bisexual but the things he'd do with a man and then he'd expect sexual privileges with a woman! That was a shock I'm still not over. I have thought perhaps the grandson was bisexual, but of course he's learned that once he came out of the closet with his gay activities, not many women would want to be that intimate with him.,.....it'd have to be someone woman who probably was a bisexual herself and was ready to settle down with a male companion.... BTW that peeing in a cup was a distance cup filling thing between males. I've seen young boys do that in the schoolyards in the back so to speak.....us girls laughing our foolish heads off when the contest was over and the contestants being made aware whether they even hit the can or not and those who did at what footage, etc.....crazy kids! Of course, they didn't know us girls were watching them, though we didn't see a lot as we were several feet behind the contestants and the boys set to watch for the teacher didn't see us either or thought we were too far away...but those contests were quite nosy.....ha ha ha.... Sharingtheriches ~ I would guess that many bisexuals are probably closet homosexuals who have not come out in public yet? They probably are more comfortable with men than women, but try to keep up appearances with family and friends until they come out in the open. I was reading recently of one Mormon couple in the news who had three children and the husband had just come out as really gay. They stayed together because of their Mormon faith which they both shared, although he admitted that he naturally preferred men to women. Honestly, I would have hated to be his wife, but I guess they came to some sort of agreement between them in their marriage relationship?
Here's there story on ABC News for anybody curious about this unusual relationship. The guy in this film actually claims to be homosexual and not bisexual, although he's married to a woman and they have three girls and have been married for 10 years. It was on their 10th Anniversary that he decided to come out in his blog about his true orientation. You really need to watch this video to get the true picture of this Mormon family.
abcnews.go.com/US/gay-mormon-happily-married-husband-father-puts-faith/story?id=16806146
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 15:00:59 GMT -5
Feeling like you will be struck by lightning is a sound example of successful brainwashing. You've read and they've said that you cannot say or think anything derogative. They won . . . Until now. Yeah. I never quite fit in to the 2X2 world/mindset. I've always kinda prized my intelligence and independent thinking. I've probably always been considered a "fringe-dweller" by the more conservative types - though that was never the way I saw myself at the time. Still, I have the memory approximately 17 - 18 years ago now, when I placed the envelope containing my order for the 2X2 publications to RIS in a mailbox near my workplace. I stood there, waiting for the lightening bolt to strike. It never happened. If there has since been a lightening bolt, it has been one of blessing. I was fortunate to get over the lightning bolt myth pretty young. I remember the moment. I was about 10 and alone in the alley near our house and decided to go for it.....I said a "swear word" (don't remember what it was) out loud and kind of cringed, waiting for the devastating results. Nothing. Cured.
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Post by faune on Jun 8, 2014 15:22:02 GMT -5
Feeling like you will be struck by lightning is a sound example of successful brainwashing. You've read and they've said that you cannot say or think anything derogative. They won . . . Until now. Yeah. I never quite fit in to the 2X2 world/mindset. I've always kinda prized my intelligence and independent thinking. I've probably always been considered a "fringe-dweller" by the more conservative types - though that was never the way I saw myself at the time. Still, I have the memory approximately 17 - 18 years ago now, when I placed the envelope containing my order for the 2X2 publications to RIS in a mailbox near my workplace. I stood there, waiting for the lightening bolt to strike. It never happened. If there has since been a lightening bolt, it has been one of blessing. Sharon ~ In can relate to your "fringe-dweller" status, too! I can also understand your mixed feelings about sending off for information on the 2x2's at a time when Internet wasn't available as it is today at the click of a mouse. That feeling of guilt over my actions of inquiring into the history of the 2x2's still returns as a memory shared. I professed for 30 years and currently have been out of the fellowship for over 19 years, leaving in April 1995. I guess I never quite fit the conservative image of the Truth fellowship either due to my more moderate/liberal leanings? Perhaps prizing your intelligence and ability to think independently of the group mentality is one reason you were able to cross over that "Great Divide" and join the "them" on the other side? JMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 15:38:00 GMT -5
It makes perfect sense to me that people lose faith in the bible as God's final word. I too lost faith in the bible as God's final word and for that I am very glad. For me the interesting question is why people have so much faith in the Bible? When one is taught from birth that the Bible is the word of God it is difficult to overcome such thinking. It is a very powerful influence. But of course just because you have been taught something from birth and believe it to be true doesn’t mean it actually is true at all. We were all taught that the 2x2 church was the only true church and that the 2x2 workers were God’s only true servants but these two claims have now been wholly discredited. Just because we were taught that the Bible is the final word of God doesn’t mean it’s actually true either. What you have to do is to consider such a claim with an open mind and come to your own conclusion. For me any book which suggests that if a man should sleep with another man he should be put to death, or if a man works on the Sabbath he should also be put to death, is clearly of dubious morality. So why did I ever choose such a book as my moral guide? Because I was taught from an early age that the Bible was the word of God and for twenty something years I was too afraid to challenge that. And why did you ever choose such a book as your moral guide? I’d be interested in your answer. For me, now, the Bible has little to do with God and it is certainly not his word. In my view the people who tell you that the Bible is God's word do not really believe in God; what they believe in is the Bible. The Bible is in fact their moral guide rather than God and that is why they tend to hang on its every word. Thinking about this logically leads one to the conclusion that the Bible is only the word of God if your God is actually the Bible. I like to think that God is somewhat greater than a much translated mistranslated ancient man made book. Of course reading the Bible with an open mind will lead you to the conclusion that it is filled with a fascinating mixture of wisdom and good, history and myth, evil and absurdity. Suggesting that homosexuals are put to death is a part which is evil; suggesting that anyone who works on the Sabbath should be put to death is a part which is an absurdity. Any book containing such evil and absurdity may well be a damned good read but it’s certainly not much of a moral guide for civilised people in the 21st century. Matt10 Matt10, I have always used the bible as my moral guide, because the fear was put into me that it is "Gods word to live by!" I am slowly but surely seeing otherwise. I believe in God our creator, but losing faith in the bible as it portrays God! Way too many contradictions etc too. It is a tough road to haul as we know what was ingrained in our brains for sooooo long! The bible is filled with absurdity and evil acts for sure...I feel like I will be struck by lightening by saying that, but it is true. -ph- It’s interesting to note how great a role fear plays in keeping people bound to the beliefs they were taught as children. And not only within 2x2ism. The reassuring thing is that your fear of being struck by lightning is not a real fear; it only exists as a result of your belief in the Bible. As one’s belief in the Bible diminishes so the fear of being struck by lightning diminishes as well. Similarly with the fear of the Biblical hell - when I was a believer I feared being cast into the Biblical hell if I dared cease believing - however as my belief in the Bible diminished so did my fear of the Biblical hell to the point where it has ceased being an issue at all. Ceasing to believe in the literalness of the Bible is liberating. Of course I think it is possible to continue to believe in a creator God without believing in the Bible. The Bible creates its own version of God and a particularly nasty one in parts. So much so that it now seems incomprehensible to me that the God of the Bible is an accurate portrayal of God. Indeed I have come to believe that belief in the Bible actually prevents us in reaching an understanding of the true nature of God. Those who believe in the Bible cannot seem to see beyond the God which the Bible portrays to the point where their entire understanding of God appears limited to the sometimes evil, often contradictory and frequently absurd version of God portrayed by the Bible. If the Bible consisted only of the words of Jesus I could live with that as a moral guide; but it doesn’t. Those ancient men with their ancient ways could not resist creating a version of God which reflected their own values and belief systems. It is therefore liberating when one realises that we no longer need to be bound by the laws and prejudices and peculiar customs of men whose main preoccupation in life appears to have been sheep slaughtering. Matt10
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Post by rational on Jun 8, 2014 15:41:08 GMT -5
Defining what a universal evil act is causes problems.What do you find so intricate about the universe? Most of it is chaos. When the sun dies and enlarges to engulf the innermost planets, including earth, will that be considered intricate?
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Post by rational on Jun 8, 2014 15:46:29 GMT -5
Thanks for your input Dennis. I don't know why He would give an 8,9,10,11 year old over to that lifestyle. I just don't get it, guess we all won't understand until after we are dead. By then it won't matter anymore! -ph- This course of action seems like sticking your head in the sand. Wouldn't it ne a better course of action, in the long run, to try and figure it out? Perhaps reevaluate the subject based on something a little more current than 2,000+ year old stories based on a very limited understanding of the problem.
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Post by faune on Jun 8, 2014 15:58:02 GMT -5
Peacefulheart ~ I found this article interesting to read. It does give you another perspective from the Bible, doesn't it?
Also, I felt this ABC News video about a Mormon couple in which the husband announced he was gay to the world on their 10th Anniversary, really shocked my sensibilities. This man knew for sure by the time he was 13 years old and I do believe he's sincere in everything he shares in this news video.
abcnews.go.com/US/gay-mormon-happily-married-husband-father-puts-faith/story?id=16806146
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 8, 2014 16:23:04 GMT -5
Yes, I learned about bisexual persons the day my stepfather blew his own brains out.....there was handwritten tales of his and my brothers many love fests. And you still think homosexual attraction is a choice? I have never heard of people blowing their brains out because they can no longer hide their heterosexuality.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 8, 2014 16:23:47 GMT -5
Defining what a universal evil act is causes problems.What do you find so intricate about the universe? Most of it is chaos. When the sun dies and enlarges to engulf the innermost planets, including earth, will that be considered intricate? When I scratch my arm or get a "boo-boo" on my knee - and a few days later it has magically repaired itself - without my knowledge or direction - I consider that "intricate". Indeed, even if I summoned everything I have learned in my time on this planet, I could never direct either the repair of my arm or my knee. I consider that "intricate". And humbling. The only thing I ever perceive as "chaos" is the state of my life at times. And, given enough perspective and time, I find that even that is mostly a lie.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 8, 2014 16:31:05 GMT -5
Thanks for your input Dennis. I don't know why He would give an 8,9,10,11 year old over to that lifestyle. I just don't get it, guess we all won't understand until after we are dead. By then it won't matter anymore! -ph- This course of action seems like sticking your head in the sand. Wouldn't it ne a better course of action, in the long run, to try and figure it out? Perhaps reevaluate the subject based on something a little more current than 2,000+ year old stories based on a very limited understanding of the problem. It seems to me that even just trusting the "perverts" to be telling the truth about themselves would be better than being suspicious of the evil that has possessed them.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 8, 2014 16:36:36 GMT -5
Yeah. I never quite fit in to the 2X2 world/mindset. I've always kinda prized my intelligence and independent thinking. I've probably always been considered a "fringe-dweller" by the more conservative types - though that was never the way I saw myself at the time. Still, I have the memory approximately 17 - 18 years ago now, when I placed the envelope containing my order for the 2X2 publications to RIS in a mailbox near my workplace. I stood there, waiting for the lightening bolt to strike. It never happened. If there has since been a lightening bolt, it has been one of blessing. I was fortunate to get over the lightning bolt myth pretty young. I remember the moment. I was about 10 and alone in the alley near our house and decided to go for it.....I said a "swear word" (don't remember what it was) out loud and kind of cringed, waiting for the devastating results. Nothing. Cured. Ya got off easy!!! Seriously, though, I didn't ever really think there would be a lightening bolt. But it it was in my bones, my muscle, my sinew. It surprised me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 8, 2014 16:37:43 GMT -5
Defining what a universal evil act is causes problems.What do you find so intricate about the universe? Most of it is chaos. When the sun dies and enlarges to engulf the innermost planets, including earth, will that be considered intricate? When I scratch my arm or get a "boo-boo" on my knee - and a few days later it has magically repaired itself - without my knowledge or direction - I consider that "intricate". Indeed, even if I summoned everything I have learned in my time on this planet, I could never direct either the repair of my arm or my knee. I consider that "intricate". And humbling. The only thing I ever perceive as "chaos" is the state of my life at times. And, given enough perspective and time, I find that even that is mostly a lie. Yeah, that stuff can all be intricate. But a brief look at the photography from that thing that is floating forever away from us in space can confirm without any doubt that the universe is a very chaotic place. Fortunately for life on earth we are in a very calm little corner of it. Of course, living on the San Andreas fault and having your house move one way and your garage move the other way, can make you wonder about intricateness. Maybe our intricate little functions are nothing more than adaptations to a present calm.
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Post by rational on Jun 8, 2014 17:16:12 GMT -5
When I scratch my arm or get a "boo-boo" on my knee - and a few days later it has magically repaired itself - without my knowledge or direction - I consider that "intricate". It is intricate. It is not magical. Many bio-chemical reactions would be classified as intricate. If you cut your self shaving sometimes you start the process of building the 'web' that traps the particles with a spec of absorbent paper. This is not really a mysterious or supernatural process. It has been well understood for quite some time. OK. Living in a well ordered universe must be ... well, interesting. I think the consensus is that order is born out of chaos.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 8, 2014 17:20:24 GMT -5
When I scratch my arm or get a "boo-boo" on my knee - and a few days later it has magically repaired itself - without my knowledge or direction - I consider that "intricate". It is intricate. It is not magical. Many bio-chemical reactions would be classified as intricate. If you cut your self shaving sometimes you start the process of building the 'web' that traps the particles with a spec of absorbent paper. This is not really a mysterious or supernatural process. It has been well understood for quite some time. OK. Living in a well ordered universe must be ... well, interesting. I think the consensus is that order is born out of chaos. There are still those big rocks that keep coming at us from somewhere out there in the universe.
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Post by blandie on Jun 8, 2014 20:04:14 GMT -5
The reassuring thing is that your fear of being struck by lightning is not a real fear; it only exists as a result of your belief in the Bible. As one’s belief in the Bible diminishes so the fear of being struck by lightning diminishes as well. Similarly with the fear of the Biblical hell - when I was a believer I feared being cast into the Biblical hell if I dared cease believing - however as my belief in the Bible diminished so did my fear of the Biblical hell to the point where it has ceased being an issue at all. Ceasing to believe in the literalness of the Bible is liberating. Of course I think it is possible to continue to believe in a creator God without believing in the Bible. The Bible creates its own version of God and a particularly nasty one in parts. So much so that it now seems incomprehensible to me that the God of the Bible is an accurate portrayal of God. Indeed I have come to believe that belief in the Bible actually prevents us in reaching an understanding of the true nature of God. Those who believe in the Bible cannot seem to see beyond the God which the Bible portrays to the point where their entire understanding of God appears limited to the sometimes evil, often contradictory and frequently absurd version of God portrayed by the Bible. If the Bible consisted only of the words of Jesus I could live with that as a moral guide; but it doesn’t. Those ancient men with their ancient ways could not resist creating a version of God which reflected their own values and belief systems. It is therefore liberating when one realises that we no longer need to be bound by the laws and prejudices and peculiar customs of men whose main preoccupation in life appears to have been sheep slaughtering. If one had believed in the literalness of the bible instead of someones twisted interpretation then one wouldn't fear being struck by lightning for questioning because nowhere in the bible is there anything about doubters being struck by lightning and the hellfire that some preach isn't a part of the gospel thats in there either. To believe in that kind of stuff shows more indoctrination apart from the bible than much knowledge of it and thats something that you find promoted in all kinds of churches including the F&W's. Attacking the bible based on that kind of stuff is a distraction from the problem instead of a road toward understanding it. Yeah a lot of the bible reflects the times - and why wouldn't it - it isn't as if it is valid to project back modern dress or morals or more exact knowledge or anything else to indict previous generations. It is arrogance to blame a god - any god - for the evil that people conceive and carry out and invalid to excuse people by shifting the blame on god. It is arrogance to blame god and previous generations for engaging in and abetting the awful necessity of defending ones home and family and nation or gaining liberty or protecting oneself and ones neighbor and ones nation however harshly from the things that people of every generation do to other people. It is arrogance to use current western thought and moral codes and trendy views - many of which have been put forward by and formed from the very bible and religions thats so readily vilified here - as a tool to go back through history and accuse past generations of stuff that still goes on among us today among irreligious and anti-religious and religious alike - blaming the bible on that is a diversion and not something that gets to the root - us. So slavery was everywhere in the ancient world and yet you buy oil from countries where it still exists and clothes that are made by workers who differ little from slaves. The problem is with people and not with the bible or with a god or with religion. What is really absurd is to suggest making up a god to fit a person's own druthers and thats not any more a god than when people did that in the bible and really shows a cynical bent. Maybe not as cynical as comes across but the constant drumbeat for spreading the gospel of religious anti-religion or touting the virtues of bowing down before oneself as the supreme deity or employing the very methods one likes to pin on others seem nearly as bad and although that may not be how some here interact or think in RL I know others that really do hold tightly to that kind of anti-religion with hypocrisy and reactionary fanaticism and talking around questions and excusing stuff and arguing from conclusions with skills that'd do any worker or priest proud.
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Post by arwen89 on Jun 8, 2014 21:13:47 GMT -5
1 Samuel 18:1-4 1 As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.
1 Samuel 20:40-42
40 And Jonathan gave his weapons to his boy and said to him, "Go and carry them to the city." 41 And as soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and fell on his face to the ground and bowed three times. And they kissed one another and wept with one another, David weeping the most. 42 Then Jonathan said to David, "Go in peace, because we have sworn both of us in the name of the Lord, saying, 'The Lord shall be between me and you, and between my offspring and your offspring, forever.'" And he rose and departed, and Jonathan went into the city.
2 Samuel 1:25-27
25 "How the mighty have fallen in the midst of the battle! "Jonathan lies slain on your high places. 26 I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women.
☆Arwen☆
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 8, 2014 21:53:12 GMT -5
Defining what a universal evil act is causes problems.What do you find so intricate about the universe? Most of it is chaos. When the sun dies and enlarges to engulf the innermost planets, including earth, will that be considered intricate? When I scratch my arm or get a "boo-boo" on my knee - and a few days later it has magically repaired itself - without my knowledge or direction - I consider that "intricate". Indeed, even if I summoned everything I have learned in my time on this planet, I could never direct either the repair of my arm or my knee. I consider that "intricate". And humbling. The only thing I ever perceive as "chaos" is the state of my life at times. And, given enough perspective and time, I find that even that is mostly a lie. I suppose one could call it healing "intricate," complicated and detailed, -but it isn't magic.
A lot is known about how the body heals itself, beginning right at the time of the cut or abrasion when the blood starts to coagulate.
And you do know many things that you have learned to do over your own lifetime to help the healing. You just don't realize it.
Bet you know to flow cold water over the wound, then hold the cut together to help stop the bleeding while you grab a bandaid to further hold the gape tightly together.
Again the term "chaos" as a scientific study is much different than what we ordinarily call "chaos."
My son has been playing a series of discs on the subject!
They lost me about the middle of the first disc!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 8, 2014 22:03:57 GMT -5
Feeling like you will be struck by lightning is a sound example of successful brainwashing. You've read and they've said that you cannot say or think anything derogative. They won . . . Until now. Yeah. I never quite fit in to the 2X2 world/mindset. I've always kinda prized my intelligence and independent thinking. I've probably always been considered a "fringe-dweller" by the more conservative types - though that was never the way I saw myself at the time. Still, I have the memory approximately 17 - 18 years ago now, when I placed the envelope containing my order for the 2X2 publications to RIS in a mailbox near my workplace. I stood there, waiting for the lightening bolt to strike. It never happened. If there has since been a lightening bolt, it has been one of blessing. Everyone is going to think my "lightening bolt" cringe was really very superficial, and it was!
I remember the first time I didn't capitalize the word 'god' - I used a small "g"!
I waited for the lightening bolt!
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Post by emy on Jun 8, 2014 22:09:12 GMT -5
1 Samuel 18:1-4 1 As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt. 1 Samuel 20:40-42 40 And Jonathan gave his weapons to his boy and said to him, "Go and carry them to the city." 41 And as soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and fell on his face to the ground and bowed three times. And they kissed one another and wept with one another, David weeping the most. 42 Then Jonathan said to David, "Go in peace, because we have sworn both of us in the name of the Lord, saying, 'The Lord shall be between me and you, and between my offspring and your offspring, forever.'" And he rose and departed, and Jonathan went into the city. 2 Samuel 1:25-27 25 "How the mighty have fallen in the midst of the battle! "Jonathan lies slain on your high places. 26 I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women. ☆Arwen☆ I don't think the love between Jonathan and David was sexuaal love, do you?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 8, 2014 22:27:07 GMT -5
................................................................................................................................................................................................................ What is really absurd is to suggest making up a god to fit a person's own druthers and thats not any more a god than when people did that in the bible and really shows a cynical bent. Maybe not as cynical as comes across but the constant drumbeat for spreading the gospel of religious anti-religion or touting the virtues of bowing down before oneself as the supreme deity or employing the very methods one likes to pin on others seem nearly as bad and although that may not be how some here interact or think in RL I know others that really do hold tightly to that kind of anti-religion with hypocrisy and reactionary fanaticism and talking around questions and excusing stuff and arguing from conclusions with skills that'd do any worker or priest proud. Blandie, I'm not sure what you mean by a, "constant drumbeat for spreading the gospel of religious anti-religion or touting the virtues of bowing down before oneself as the supreme deity or employing the very methods one likes to pin on others seem nearly as bad and although that may not be how some here interact or think in RL"
or this,
"hold tightly to that kind of anti-religion with hypocrisy and reactionary fanaticism
What do you mean in both of these sentences by the use of "gospel of religious anti-religion?"
To whom are referring to as being "religious anti-religion?" Also what do you mean by the "RL?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 8, 2014 22:44:00 GMT -5
That statement is true, Blandi,- the problem is with people, however, it is people who created a god in their image, then wrote the bible in accordance with what they wanted to believe and then created a religion to worship the god that they had created!
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