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Post by pianoman2 on Jun 6, 2014 3:29:44 GMT -5
I am sorry I haven't attended to my post, but will quote Dennis Jacobsen " "Paying it forward" is indeed a lovely concept, and worthy of acceptation to my mind and way of thinking. Putting oneself in anothers' position is another way of avoiding having to be put there to learn a lesson. (Waving thanks at an eighty year old in this form who publicly revealed such awareness and understanding.) I've often heard it said, "one reaps what they sow, yet I have both experienced and witness reaping what another has sown, and it is not always so pleasant, neither. Dennis has shown his generosity in inviting me to stay here with him. I am able to contribute and help him so it has been a win win, situation.
Greg, I think that it was implied that Jeff had "work and a place to stay" available to him, and his refusal was what caused him to become homeless.
Many judge him as "making a quick buck" and "freeloading" or as Rat says benefiting Jeff. I want to point this out. As I have said, I was homeless, and I ate poorly, and many homeless suffer from malnutrition, and other things like need of medical help. Jeff has ideas that will help them to eat healthy and he is finding out first hand what they go thru, and so he shares his solutions with all.
I challenge anyone to take your car, or vehicle, no gas and take $25.00 and go live homeless for one week. See how you fare. I think you will appreciate that Jeff is seeking solutions, but everyone that seeks to help out others, like that Jesus dude in the bible. He was just here for a free ride. He had great solutions, but in the eyes of scoffers, he was a nuisance. Jeff may not be crucified literally, but he is crucified figuratively by those that judge him and his motives. He has chosen, like other pioneers to tackle a problem and make it better for others, and some put him down, but I admire him as he may change many things in his lifetime.
I still say, send him $5.00 and you can consider yourself a fool, but see what he does to show others that homelessness is not the end and they can live better, eat better, and get help, when they have fallen thru the cracks.
Yeah, most people have lived in a home all their lives, but when the day comes that misfortune knocks you down, will you be looking for a Jeff to show you how to survive and live a decent life. Is there a rule somewhere that you need a permanent residence? Jeff has worked part time and if everyone thinks that "oh he should just quit whining and get a job", I don't see him whining, and jobs are hard to find for someone that gave years to a worthless cause, that didn't appreciate him or help him out because of his years spent in the work. He has helped himself, and he eats better than I do, due to his conscious efforts, which I need to remember, and eat better too, so Jeff has helped me see that.
I feel that those that are hardest on Jeff would be the loudest whiners if they became homeless, and would "feel" like they were owed something. Just my opinion..................Dale
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Post by rational on Jun 6, 2014 8:06:48 GMT -5
Many judge him as "making a quick buck" and "freeloading" or as Rat says benefiting Jeff. I want to point this out. As I have said, I was homeless, and I ate poorly, and many homeless suffer from malnutrition, and other things like need of medical help. Jeff has ideas that will help them to eat healthy and he is finding out first hand what they go thru, and so he shares his solutions with all. Many of the people who read and post here feel they were taken in with false promises and untruths. I pointed out what Jeff had posted on the site that you provided. After reading it, it was clear that the contributions were for the benefit of Jeff. One stated goal was to be able to travel around the world. I think what he is doing is great. If he can fund his desired life-style in this way I applaud him. His presentation has been up front and honest. Your presentation has been much like those "Make money at home stuffing envelopes." which, for a sum of money, advise people to stuff letters in envelopes and send them to anyone they can find with an offer, for a sum of money, to teach them how to make money stuffing envelopes at home.
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Post by Greg on Jun 6, 2014 16:45:41 GMT -5
I am sorry I haven't attended to my post, but will quote Dennis Jacobsen " "Paying it forward" is indeed a lovely concept, and worthy of acceptation to my mind and way of thinking. Putting oneself in anothers' position is another way of avoiding having to be put there to learn a lesson. (Waving thanks at an eighty year old in this form who publicly revealed such awareness and understanding.) I've often heard it said, "one reaps what they sow, yet I have both experienced and witness reaping what another has sown, and it is not always so pleasant, neither. Dennis has shown his generosity in inviting me to stay here with him. I am able to contribute and help him so it has been a win win, situation. Greg, I think that it was implied that Jeff had "work and a place to stay" available to him, and his refusal was what caused him to become homeless. Many judge him as "making a quick buck" and "freeloading" or as Rat says benefiting Jeff. I want to point this out. As I have said, I was homeless, and I ate poorly, and many homeless suffer from malnutrition, and other things like need of medical help. Jeff has ideas that will help them to eat healthy and he is finding out first hand what they go thru, and so he shares his solutions with all. I challenge anyone to take your car, or vehicle, no gas and take $25.00 and go live homeless for one week. See how you fare. I think you will appreciate that Jeff is seeking solutions, but everyone that seeks to help out others, like that Jesus dude in the bible. He was just here for a free ride. He had great solutions, but in the eyes of scoffers, he was a nuisance. Jeff may not be crucified literally, but he is crucified figuratively by those that judge him and his motives. He has chosen, like other pioneers to tackle a problem and make it better for others, and some put him down, but I admire him as he may change many things in his lifetime. I still say, send him $5.00 and you can consider yourself a fool, but see what he does to show others that homelessness is not the end and they can live better, eat better, and get help, when they have fallen thru the cracks. Yeah, most people have lived in a home all their lives, but when the day comes that misfortune knocks you down, will you be looking for a Jeff to show you how to survive and live a decent life. Is there a rule somewhere that you need a permanent residence? Jeff has worked part time and if everyone thinks that "oh he should just quit whining and get a job", I don't see him whining, and jobs are hard to find for someone that gave years to a worthless cause, that didn't appreciate him or help him out because of his years spent in the work. He has helped himself, and he eats better than I do, due to his conscious efforts, which I need to remember, and eat better too, so Jeff has helped me see that. I feel that those that are hardest on Jeff would be the loudest whiners if they became homeless, and would "feel" like they were owed something. Just my opinion..................Dale Emphasis added. Comparing JR to Jesus. Wow. But then one could compare most people to Jesus. Jesus walked . . . so do most people. I do not know why you indicate that there was implication of JR having worked. There is no implication on your OP. Any implication might be that the F&W are responsible for JR's current situation. Rational has already posted thoughts and done well in doing so. Clearly, JR's efforts primarily benefit JR. That's okay, but declaring him as helper for the poor and homeless is a bit of a stretch. I know there is no whining by JR. I do not see any whining by anyone except by you. Some people might not accept JR's efforts in his current situation as work. Perhaps they are more the conventional thinkers (and not F&W convention). I think Clearday related the work JR does. Little to doubt that JR is not sincere in his effort and that he is working.
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Post by pianoman2 on Jun 7, 2014 0:48:00 GMT -5
Greg, Thanks for the judgment. I guess I am just one that whines all the time.
I simply pointed out that Jeff is doing something that is unique, and many don't see that or agree with what he is doing.
Rat is correct that the money does go to Jeff. I know he has helped others out as we correspond regularly.
I guess anyone that has a great idea and wants money to research it, is out for himself. Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, and others that are pioneers are often laughed at.
Again, go homeless for a week. Jeff provides videos that are available at any library for free on how to eat healthy, and how to make it in the homeless environment.
I think , Greg, that you think you could have never become homeless. That is a wonderful thought, but it happens to some of the best people and it is not of their doing. The homeless old ladies in the 1980's were buying cat food to eat. Now that Jeff has videos on surviving homelessness, I guess it is a gimmick.
I still stand behind Jeff, and I believe when he gets his project off the ground, and is a success, maybe then you can look him up and say, "Hey, remember me". You may find yourself in dire straights as some others that thought they would never experience being homeless.
I hope you never have to experience it, as I don't think you would last long. Oh, and if you are well off, then you have the workers to watch out for you, but don't get poor and expect help, it ain't gonna happen.
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Post by Greg on Jun 7, 2014 2:22:52 GMT -5
Post is quoted in italics. Greg, Thanks for the judgment. I guess I am just one that whines all the time. - This is probably not sincere. I simply pointed out that Jeff is doing something that is unique, and many don't see that or agree with what he is doing. - No, you did more than that. Right away you bashed the friends and workers and right away you made pre-emptive protests that JR is not a bum, before any could even mention it - if they would. I think some or many that know of JR's effort would consider it unique. As I have and others similarly, too - the conventional thinker would not agree with JR's efforts. I have and others have, too - not everyone knows of our situations and not everyone has the same emotional, mental, and physical characteristics. Rat is correct that the money does go to Jeff. I know he has helped others out as we correspond regularly. - Yes, Rational is correct. Other than you, do you know who JR has helped? I know you say he says he has helped others. And that is all I can say of JR helping others. "I have heard..." I do not believe you, but I do not "not believe" you. I just take it for what it is - you heard he has helped others. And that is all I can say about it to others if it ever came up . . . "I heard from someone who heard from JR that he has helped others." I guess anyone that has a great idea and wants money to research it, is out for himself. Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, and others that are pioneers are often laughed at. - I do not know those people, but I know the names. I might know one person who knows them. I do not know if they were laughed at. Again, go homeless for a week. Jeff provides videos that are available at any library for free on how to eat healthy, and how to make it in the homeless environment. - I won't voluntarily go homeless for a week. As to the other, all I can say is "okay". I think , Greg, that you think you could have never become homeless. That is a wonderful thought, but it happens to some of the best people and it is not of their doing. The homeless old ladies in the 1980's were buying cat food to eat. Now that Jeff has videos on surviving homelessness, I guess it is a gimmick. - I think I could be homeless. I think for some, if not many, the forced homeless situation is deplorable, frustrating, and hopeless. I do not know if anyone has called JR's effort a gimmick. You might be reading into people's thoughts. You do think for others and guess their thoughts. Just a little judgment there. I still stand behind Jeff, and I believe when he gets his project off the ground, and is a success, maybe then you can look him up and say, "Hey, remember me". You may find yourself in dire straights as some others that thought they would never experience being homeless. - The project appears to be about two years old or older. At least, that is the oldest "road warrior" video I have seen mentioned. If JR is successful, good for him. If he is able to help the forced homeless, all the better. I do not care if he is able to travel or not. I hope you never have to experience it, as I don't think you would last long. Oh, and if you are well off, then you have the workers to watch out for you, but don't get poor and expect help, it ain't gonna happen. - I think I would not last long living off the streets, too. I am not well off. I have nothing to do with the workers.
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Post by fixit on Jun 7, 2014 3:20:10 GMT -5
Oh, and if you are well off, then you have the workers to watch out for you, but don't get poor and expect help, it ain't gonna happen. JR has had several handouts and opportunities to get out of his homeless situation. I applaud anyone who tries to help him into gainful employment, but unless he is willing for that I think there's more worthy recipients for charitable donations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 8:01:48 GMT -5
Oh, and if you are well off, then you have the workers to watch out for you, but don't get poor and expect help, it ain't gonna happen. JR has had several handouts and opportunities to get out of his homeless situation. I applaud anyone who tries to help him into gainful employment, but unless he is willing for that I think there's more worthy recipients for charitable donations. One of the most difficult things about the challenge of homelessness and poverty in wealthy countries is that for a great number of homeless people, an offer of a traditional way out of the homeless state (such as training or a job offer) is ineffective and will never work. The stereotypical "lazy bum" is probably in the minority as a reason why such offers are ineffective and homelessness/poverty will always form an intractable part of any society. Homelessness in a normal wealthy economy is far more likely to be caused by psychological, emotional and personality challenges than simple wilful laziness. For many homeless people, offering them a job or training as the solution to their homelessness is like offering chemotherapy to a person suffering heart disease, and then getting frustrated because they won't take the genuine and generous offer. When I was younger, I used to think that everyone on the street panhandling and not working were just lazy and should just go out and get a job. I now realize that it's not so simple and that does not describe the situation in most cases. "The poor you will always have with you" is a pearl of wisdom with far greater depth than I ever imagined over the years. Poverty in any society is intractable because for reasons other than laziness or a bad job market, a few people are doomed to a life of homelessness and poverty.
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Post by pianoman2 on Jun 7, 2014 10:26:05 GMT -5
Greg, Yeah, I was not being sincere. I get a little bent out of shape when people criticize others they don't understand. FYI, Bill Gates started and owns Microsoft, and has revived Seattle. The two Steves I mention started the Apple computer business in their garage.
I am going to end my participation in this discussion here. I would like people to help JR. Fixit thinks he needs a job, and I think he has one.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jeff is either a great liar with a huge imagination, or has assisted those he tells me of. I have never received one dime from him.
I live on a very small fixed and were it not for some thoughtful others, I probably would be homeless again of living in a pretty bad place. All of my life, I have tried to help others, and am learning not to judge other's choices. I have taken people into my home, that had made unwise choices and tried to get them headed in the right direction, off of drugs and alcohol. Words can help, in some cases, more than funds.
If Nathan is correct, I can empathize with Jeff. I once had it pretty good, from my working hard. My kindness to family and others caused me to lose everything. I don't regret my kindness, but am not crazy about losing everything. I have learned that money and possessions are not the key, peace of mind is.
We all are really just one bad decision from becoming homeless, and I would rather spend time with people like Jeff than those that have it made and look down on others.
It is like this board. I tried to do a positive thing, and it turns into a debate about what Jeff needs to do. I have some dear friends on here, and then there are those that I feel need a wake up call about life. I am not your judge so, I will only say, it is things like this that keep me away from here.
Help Jeff, or don't. I simply think he is on to a good thing, and Clearday, yes, it is a hard thing to understand, but it seems like you are trying.
I was having car problems in Portland a couple of weeks ago and was approached by a man with stringy and greasy looking hair. I thought he was coming to "bum" a smoke. He came and told me that his mom was in the store, and would give me a jump to start my vehicle. While he approached me, I judged him, and he was coming to help me. I felt so small. I know that many homeless are there from many things and I will just say, don't judge anyone til you have walked in their shoes. As far as I am concerned, the topic was put out there, and those that will help I thank. As far as the "critics" find a mirror....................Dale
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Post by rational on Jun 7, 2014 13:29:35 GMT -5
Greg, Yeah, I was not being sincere. I get a little bent out of shape when people criticize others they don't understand. FTI, Bill Gates started and owns Microsoft, and has revived Seattle. The two Steves I mention started the Apple computer business in their garage. I don't believe any of the people you mentioned were homeless. Bill Gate's parents were, I believe, fairly well to do lawyers. He co-founded Microsoft but own less than 7% of the common stock. All three of the people mentioned worked long and hard hours to achieve the success they did. They actually worked for a living. I do not recall any of then soliciting handouts. It sounds like if he does not have a job he does have a plan to get some funds. I don't think anyone has a problem with Jeff asking for funds to fix his van or fund his trips. However, I think trying to sell it as a bit of charitable work is a stretch. I don't think in any of the things I have read that he wrote that he ever mentioned giving anyone any of the funds he receives. The homeless will benefit from watching his videos and looking at the photos he sends back from his travels. No, you tried to sell snake oil and say the contributions were, more or less, to a charitable cause when they are to Jeff. Getting funds to repair his van and fund his travels have little to do with posting "Self-Help" videos and text on a WWW site to help others. What is so difficult to understand? It was outlined on what he wrote. Give Jeff money to live and he will, at some unspecified time in some unspecified way, tell people how to be more successful at being homeless. How to eat a healthier diet, how to get along with few resources, and probably more that I don't understand. Some projects do not stand up to criticism.
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Post by Greg on Jun 7, 2014 18:07:29 GMT -5
Greg, Yeah, I was not being sincere. I get a little bent out of shape when people criticize others they don't understand. FTI, Bill Gates started and owns Microsoft, and has revived Seattle. The two Steves I mention started the Apple computer business in their garage. - What does "FTI" mean? [EDIT: Perhaps FYI.] I know who those men are, but I do not know them. I am going to end my participation in this discussion here. I would like people to help JR. Fixit thinks he needs a job, and I think he has one. - I think JR has a job, too. He is self-employed. He is a fund raiser. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jeff is either a great liar with a huge imagination, or has assisted those he tells me of. I have never received one dime from him. - I do not know why you are contending (some think?) he is a great liar. Yes, he might have helped others. That is what we "heard". I do not know why you state he has not given you one dime. Is it because I indicated you indicated he helped you? I think the context was more in the line of better eating or some such thing. I live on a very small fixed and were it not for some thoughtful others, I probably would be homeless again of living in a pretty bad place. All of my life, I have tried to help others, and am learning not to judge other's choices. I have taken people into my home, that had made unwise choices and tried to get them headed in the right direction, off of drugs and alcohol. Words can help, in some cases, more than funds. - Okay. If Nathan is correct, I can empathize with Jeff. I once had it pretty good, from my working hard. My kindness to family and others caused me to lose everything. I don't regret my kindness, but am not crazy about losing everything. I have learned that money and possessions are not the key, peace of mind is. - "If Nathan is correct..." Yup, if he is. We have read Nathan's brief account. It is what it is. "We have heard/read..." We all are really just one bad decision from becoming homeless, and I would rather spend time with people like Jeff than those that have it made and look down on others. - Probably more than one bad decisions. Probably a succession of bad decisions. Those coupled with a bad event or two or more. It is like this board. I tried to do a positive thing, and it turns into a debate about what Jeff needs to do. I have some dear friends on here, and then there are those that I feel need a wake up call about life. I am not your judge so, I will only say, it is things like this that keep me away from here. - Yes, you tried a positive thing and threw in some embellishments (see Rational's preceding post) and a bit of (misdirected) bashing. Help Jeff, or don't. I simply think he is on to a good thing, and Clearday, yes, it is a hard thing to understand, but it seems like you are trying. - At first I did not "get it." I read your opening post and the website. I did not see how the two meshed. I did not see the great helping of the homeless. I get it now. Some of your OP was misleading and misdirected. I get what JR is trying to do. He has a plan for funding his desire to travel and along the way help others with the same desire and share experiences and along the way reach out via internet tools to help the homeless. I was having car problems in Portland a couple of weeks ago and was approached by a man with stringy and greasy looking hair. I thought he was coming to "bum" a smoke. He came and told me that his mom was in the store, and would give me a jump to start my vehicle. While he approached me, I judged him, and he was coming to help me. I felt so small. I know that many homeless are there from many things and I will just say, don't judge anyone til you have walked in their shoes. As far as I am concerned, the topic was put out there, and those that will help I thank. As far as the "critics" find a mirror....................Dale - So with all your preaching and all your years of being judged and railing against such, even just two weeks you are guilty as you charge others. But I appreciate the story.
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billy
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Post by billy on Jul 11, 2014 1:27:15 GMT -5
It looks like Jeff has a fairly ambitious plan to get back on his feet and into his vansion.
HELP A HOMELESS MAN GET A VAN & START A BRAND
Just before I launched this campaign to fix my van and start my brand, the police towed it away leaving me homeless on the streets. (Help Me Get It Back!) JR
Just thought I would provide the link again in case someone had missed it and wanted to donate to Jeff.
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Post by think2much on Aug 1, 2014 3:23:15 GMT -5
Just to bump this along, as Billy mentioned, Jeff now has an indiegogo campaign running to fix his van and "start my brand." It's currently at 63% of goal and ends in 3 days, but his campaign is "flexible funded" meaning he gets all of the funds whether he reaches his goal or not. As others have pointed out, the basic premise of the campaign is "Help me get a newer van [or even an RV] so I can travel the country and y'all can buy my merchandise and see how cool it is to live on the road." My wife (who also knew JR back when he was gainfully employed) walked out of the room when I played the promotional video for his campaign, she was so disgusted. Like others, we have offered JR above- average-wage employment and housing, and he has declined. If Jeff's goal was to help the homeless become un-homeless I'd be much more inclined to donate. Enabling and perpetuating a victim lifestyle just doesn't make sense to me.
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anna
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Post by anna on Aug 5, 2014 20:30:42 GMT -5
Jeff needs more help. The $15000 goal was short by a little over $5000 so the campaign was extended for another 30 days.
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Post by fixit on Aug 25, 2014 6:20:37 GMT -5
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Post by jeffread on Apr 12, 2018 15:27:15 GMT -5
To Everyone: Hello. This is Jeff Read. I set up an account in my real name so everyone would know this is me. I have nothing to hide. My life is an open book. It's almost 4 years since I asked someone to post about my situation here. I never came here to look until a few weeks ago. I appreciate the care and concern from some people and also can understand the criticism and lack of understanding from others. After I did a quick skim over the comments, I felt I needed to post an update and a correction. I keep trying to push ahead and move forward. I want to address a few important things here. I appreciate those who posted my story and also were caring, concerned, compassionate and not so critical. The original purpose was just to let people know I needed help, but was not to get into all the details about my personal life, but stuff happens. People say this and that, and some might be true, while other stuff isn't. But, it doesn't matter. When someone needs help and they call out for help, we either help them or we don't. That's our choice. I'm thankful for those who did. It really helped me. The part I want to correct is about me and how I feel about the friends and workers and church and ministry and all that. I still have connections with friends and workers. I still like friends and workers. I still have many good memories. I don't blame Tharold Sylvester or anyone else for anything. I did have some people spread some very bad and very damaging rumors about me and that caused me great depression and caused me to go off the radar and disappear. I figured that over time people may move on to other things to discuss and to spread rumors about. Spreading rumors is very bad and can really hurt people. I don't recommend doing that to people if you don't want people to do that to you, too. It's not fun. Things happen in life, whether it's our fault or not, and we just have to deal with it, and take personal responsibility. Sometimes it's our fault and other times it's not. Either way, I encourage and recommend that everyone do the same in your own life. The sooner we stop blaming others and take responsibility for our own lives, the better. This helps you to take your life back and not let others control you. It's not easy to do and it takes time. Just deal with it, between God and yourself. I went thru some very hard times and it was very difficult and I still struggle thru them now. But, I still keep my faith. I've spent a lot of time thinking about things. Sorting things out. I am still a believer. I still pray to God every day, several times a day, throughout the day. I am much stronger today in many ways than before. I may still attend a meeting and convention some time, but mostly I move around and I visit other churches and I enjoy getting to know other believers wherever I go. I'd say, most friends and workers and people in general may not understand me and how I have to live to survive. A few years ago, a man commented on me not having a clean shaven face. Much of the time these days I have varying degrees of a beard. When I make an effort to go to meeting or church, the last thing I want to hear is some rich old guy living in a $1.5 million dollar home on a hill commenting on whether my shaver broke or not. So, if you go to meetings or another church, don't do that to people. I don't like it and I assume others don't either. For that reason and other obvious reasons, I don't attend any meetings at this time. Because I live full time on the road in my bus van, that is how I do it now. I don't have all the modern conveniences of bathroom, sink, shower, etc. And, to get cleaned up and dressed up for church takes extra effort. I like to go to churches where they are not going to be commenting on how I look and dress. Too much emphasis on the outward, not enough focus on the inward. Because I lost everything, there was only so much I could do. So, I got to know other homeless people. They had nothing and I had nothing, so we had nothing in common, or had that in common. So, I learned about the struggles of other people. But, no, I didn't plan to make a career out of being homeless and spend the rest of my life homeless, but, it was where I was at the time, so I had to survive on the streets. Now, I live in my 24 foot semi-converted shuttle bus van. Someone said they offered me a job and I didn't accept. Well, just because we offer someone a job, doesn't mean they have to accept it and doesn't mean they want that type of job or they feel they can do that job or they want to work for someone in the church which can be too close and cause problems or they may not want to move over thousand miles north to some cold place and work on fixing things in the cold winter time when they already live in a nice, warm, mild and temperate place. Also, this idea that if someone reaches out for help and someone says they won't help the other person because they don't want to enable them, that is a cliche' cop out excuse and not a very good reason for not helping people. It's like someone hungry who comes begging to you for some food and you say I'm not going to give them any food because I don't want to enable them to keep on living like that. So, to let them starve is a better option. Ridiculous. It's also not Biblical, scriptural or Christian. Also, if someone's wife sees my video asking for help and walks away in disgust, well, what does that tell you about that person or how does that make me feel when I'm in a desperate situation? And, next time I see them, what am I going to think and feel about them? It's important to be careful what you think and say about others. Where's the love? Instead, it's all judgment. I've been on the side of being down and out, criticized and judged, and it's not fun, whether people think you deserve it or not. Some friends and workers really lack and fail on the side of compassion and mercy. But, not just them, sometimes, all of us do. It's often about criticism, judgement and punishment with some of these people. Not about comfort, encouragement, forgiveness and the love of Christ. We all need to learn from these things. Exposing ourselves to the struggles and sufferings of others is a good way to get exercised and stronger in working with and understanding humanity. Reading about Jesus and how he worked with people is very helpful. Thinking of his love and compassion and forgiveness for our own mistakes, failures, struggles and sufferings, can help us to try to do the same for others. We have a choice to either help people or not. We choose what we're going to do. And, those who need help have a choice to either suffer in silence alone or to reach out to others. Sometimes people keep it all to themselves and end up killing themselves and people say later, why didn't they reach out the talk to someone. And, then when you do reach out and tell others, some people judge you for that, too. So, you can't please some people whether you're dead or alive. They're never satisfied. So, when you really need help, you just have to ask someone and face the consequences, either way. When you're in survival-mode, you must do what you have to do to survive. What others think about it becomes less important than your survival. Only those who've been there know what that means. Since I hit my hard times, I've had some very kind people help me and I've had others criticize. I appreciate the helpers and I understand the critics. If everything is going well in our own lives and we don't need any help, it's hard to understand those who may be in a totally different situation. I appreciate those here who tried to understand and went to bat for me. It was humbling to read the comments of people talking about me and my life and my situation and making judgments one way or another. It's not easy or very pleasant to go public with your story about losing everything and asking others for help. We usually keep that all private. But, sometimes things get so bad that we are so desperate that we reach out to others at the expense of facing great embarrassment and criticism. But, in survival, you do what you got to do to survive, whether anyone understands or not. In the movie, 127 Hours, the guy got stuck in a canyon in Utah. He cried out for help. Nobody could hear him. He was hungry and out of water and he knew if he didn't do something, he'd die there. So, he did what nobody would normally do and had to cut off his own arm to get out of there. He walked out and some people found him and he survived. He did what he had to do to survive. Later, people probably asked him why did he go hiking? Why did you go alone? Why didn't you wait for help longer? Why did you cut your arm off? Did you really have to cut your arm off? Maybe some even were disgusted and thought, it's his fault, I wouldn't help him, he must be punished, must suffer the consequences and I would not help him because I don't want to enable him. But, whether people liked it or not, agreed or not, he did what he thought he had to do to survive. And, he's alive today and he took the bad experience and turned it into a book and movie and he does public speaking around the world. So, he went from being stuck alone in a canyon and feeling hopeless and facing death to surviving and thriving. I'm happy for him. I wish him well. I'm glad he's alive. There's many ways you can help someone, not just in donating money, obviously. If someone reaches out to you for help, whatever you do, be sure to let them know you care about them. Don't just tell them, I'll pray for you later on, if I remember, but do it with them, right then and there. Give people a hug. Tell them you love them. You never know, some people may be so down and out that they are on the verge of suicide and your love and kindness can help them have a reason to live for and to keep on going. Some people and churches are not very good at making people feel loved, so this is something we all must work on. Some people are all alone and don't have close families or any family. They will benefit from people showing them love. I think we've all experienced sometimes what it's like to be mean to people. But, we don't want people to be mean to us. So, share the love. Some people, friends and workers, donated and helped me. Some were very kind and supportive. And, even some "exes" sent help. And, total strangers around the world. I had almost 800 people in many countries around the world donate to my Indiegogo crowd funding campaign. I worked hard to promote it. I worked it day and night for 60 days. I worked out of free wifi at coffee shops. I had to extend from the first 30 days to another 30 days for a total of 60 days. We finished the 60 days still short $600. But, because I was so close, Indiegogo / IGG offered to let me extend 3 more days, so I was able to reach the goal and exceed it by $200. In crowd funding, it's very important to reach the goal. Crowd funding is not easy, but takes a lot of work to promote and takes a lot of contacts. I invited 30 people to be on my team. My greatest helper was someone from overseas who was once a total stranger, but became a good friend. I never could've made it without him. He helped promote my campaign worldwide and together we reached the goal. I am forever grateful to all those who helped whether by donating, hoping, praying or wishing me well, whether they voiced it or in silence. The campaign was to get me another van and help me start my online business and brand. It was a good success. Not bad for someone living homeless on the street. It took me 9 months and 12 days of being homeless on the street until I found my bus van. After the crowd funding and living homeless on the street, I was mentally exhausted, burned out and mentally depressed. So, it took me several years to kind of get my head together. I'm finally feeling much better. So, things took a lot longer to accomplish than I had hoped. I'm still working on it. It's labor of love. A journey. Thanks for all who cared and shared or hoped and prayed for me. I lived and survived homeless on the streets for 9 months and 12 days until I finally found and bought my shuttle bus. I've lived in my bus over 3 years now. People wonder why I keep living homeless on the road. Yes, it's by choice, but also by necessity. Because it's the cheapest way I can survive while I slowly work my way back up. I don't have to pay rent or mortgage so I can live on very little money. Because of some health problems, I was not able to hold a regular job. Living this way was less stressful, less pressure has allowed me to work on improving my health. Also, the low overhead allows me to work on my online social media venture which I hope will some day sustain me. There are estimated between 1-2 million people nationwide who are mobile homeless in America. They live in cars, vans, campers and motorhomes. They live this way for many personal reasons. Either for fun and recreation or for survival. Some are young and doing it to live cheap and road trip and travel or save money. Some lost their job, got divorced or fell on hard times or health problems. Some are retired snow birds who live in a home up north in the summer and live in an RV down south in the winter. I came here to post and update. I am not here to debate, argue or fight with people online. I have no interest or intention of causing trouble on this site. I have plenty of things to keep me busy with these days. So I won't be coming here much or maybe not at all. If anyone knows me, remembers me, wants to know me or cares to keep in touch, you can find me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or YouTube, by searching: ROAD WARRIORS 360. Special thanks to Dale P.; Bruce M.; Alan V. and many others for being good friends over the years. There are others here who may know me, but I'm not sure who you are behind your anonymous names, so thanks to all of you. To any of my old professing friends or worker companions or co-workers in the ministry, I think of you and I hope to see you again some day. I miss being up in Washington State. I really miss the people, friends and workers, being at some of the conventions up there, the great outdoors and nature and hiking, backpacking and camping. I hope to get up there again some day. Look me up if you're ever in S. California. And, Mr. Apples and all the others I used to haggle with and cause turmoil on your board with, don't worry, I have no interest in that anymore. I have better things to do these days. Forgive and forget and move on. You won't need to ban me anymore, instead, it will be I who decides whether to come or go or stay or delete my account. To the person who posted above here who said that Miley Cyrus could do more for the homeless, today is going on 4 years since your post and there's been over 1,000 homeless living in the Santa Ana Riverbed and I've never heard or read anything about Miley helping or visiting them. But, I was there and I filmed about their plight recently. I will post it up on YouTube eventually. I realize your comment was an off the cuff smart alec remark, but this campaign was about helping me get back on my feet and in return I could help others. People thought Snoop Dogg was going to visit and help the homeless there, but he never showed up. Instead, he bought a nice place to live in Toronto, Canada. He hates Trump. I've never heard of Jimmy Kimmel being there either. And, Conan flew to Haiti to make himself look good in the news, but never heard of him or any other celebrity trying to help the homeless here in L.A. or Orange County. If all these rich and famous celebrities invested as much money as they did in time bashing the President of the United States, they probably could have solved homelessness by now. The idea of my campaign was to help me because the police towed my old van away and left me homeless on the street and I had no where to live and couldn't afford another van or place to live. And, in return for helping me, I would continue to help others. That's all. I didn't say or think I was ever going to be able to compete with the rich and famous. Never crossed my mind. It was just to make it a part of my life from day to day, one on one, wherever I go. I do what I can wherever I am. That's all. Nothing too grandiose. I hope everyone is doing well out there. If anyone is in the Orange County, CA area, I enjoy meeting people, making new friends or seeing old ones. Search and contact me through my social media or via the private message option here, as I may not come here. I mainly focus on Instagram. I will be making more videos on YouTube asap. I'm working on making stickers and t-shirt designs and other stuff to sustain myself over time. If anyone wants to see me and hear me talk about my situation, what happened to me and how I live on the road in my bus van, visit my YouTube channel and I tell my story there. I will be making more videos in the future. It will get better over time. Right now, dealing with older, slower laptop computer, so makes editing videos harder. If anyone suffers from depression, I've struggled with it, studied, researched and experimented with various natural health remedies and I'm having great results with 100% feeling good. I will share what I do with you, to help you, if you or someone you know needs help. It's all natural. I don't go to doctors or take any drugs. I am into holistic natural alternative medicine. And, no, it's not Amway, Shakley or some other MLM, but stuff you can buy at your local health food store. And, no, I don't make money on it. I just try to help people. Post a comment to say hello or follow me on my Instagram below if you feel like it. But, I won't be spending much time here. This was meant to be a good friendly message and no hard feelings or blame or criticism or judgement toward anyone -- so please keep it that way! Please don't hold anything I shared here against me, my friends, family or relatives. Please don't spread any mean, hurtful or damaging rumors. No criticism, judgement, bullying or personal attacks. And, also, don't label me as an "ex" or enemy of the church and ministry. I'm not. I am still a follower of Jesus and believe in the Bible. I hope this message is helpful and clears up any doubts, confusion, misunderstanding and wondering. If not, oh, well, at least I tried. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. God bless all those who live for and seek His blessing. Sincerely, Jeff T. Read ROAD WARRIORS 360 Orange County, California, USA www.instagram.com/roadwarriors360/
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Post by snow on Apr 12, 2018 16:55:49 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that I'm glad you're doing better and that others are also better off because of you. All the best to you Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 18:08:55 GMT -5
To Everyone: Hello. This is Jeff Read. I set up an account in my real name so everyone would know this is me. I have nothing to hide. My life is an open book. It's almost 4 years since I asked someone to post about my situation here. I never came here to look until a few weeks ago. I appreciate the care and concern from some people and also can understand the criticism and lack of understanding from others. After I did a quick skim over the comments, I felt I needed to post an update and a correction. I keep trying to push ahead and move forward. I want to address a few important things here. I appreciate those who posted my story and also were caring, concerned, compassionate and not so critical. The original purpose was just to let people know I needed help, but was not to get into all the details about my personal life, but stuff happens. People say this and that, and some might be true, while other stuff isn't. But, it doesn't matter. When someone needs help and they call out for help, we either help them or we don't. That's our choice. I'm thankful for those who did. It really helped me. The part I want to correct is about me and how I feel about the friends and workers and church and ministry and all that. I still have connections with friends and workers. I still like friends and workers. I still have many good memories. I don't blame Tharold Sylvester or anyone else for anything. I did have some people spread some very bad and very damaging rumors about me and that caused me great depression and caused me to go off the radar and disappear. I figured that over time people may move on to other things to discuss and to spread rumors about. Spreading rumors is very bad and can really hurt people. I don't recommend doing that to people if you don't want people to do that to you, too. It's not fun. Things happen in life, whether it's our fault or not, and we just have to deal with it, and take personal responsibility. Sometimes it's our fault and other times it's not. Either way, I encourage and recommend that everyone do the same in your own life. The sooner we stop blaming others and take responsibility for our own lives, the better. This helps you to take your life back and not let others control you. It's not easy to do and it takes time. Just deal with it, between God and yourself. I went thru some very hard times and it was very difficult and I still struggle thru them now. But, I still keep my faith. I've spent a lot of time thinking about things. Sorting things out. I am still a believer. I still pray to God every day, several times a day, throughout the day. I am much stronger today in many ways than before. I may still attend a meeting and convention some time, but mostly I move around and I visit other churches and I enjoy getting to know other believers wherever I go. I'd say, most friends and workers and people in general may not understand me and how I have to live to survive. A few years ago, a man commented on me not having a clean shaven face. Much of the time these days I have varying degrees of a beard. When I make an effort to go to meeting or church, the last thing I want to hear is some rich old guy living in a $1.5 million dollar home on a hill commenting on whether my shaver broke or not. So, if you go to meetings or another church, don't do that to people. I don't like it and I assume others don't either. For that reason and other obvious reasons, I don't attend any meetings at this time. Because I live full time on the road in my bus van, that is how I do it now. I don't have all the modern conveniences of bathroom, sink, shower, etc. And, to get cleaned up and dressed up for church takes extra effort. I like to go to churches where they are not going to be commenting on how I look and dress. Too much emphasis on the outward, not enough focus on the inward. Because I lost everything, there was only so much I could do. So, I got to know other homeless people. They had nothing and I had nothing, so we had nothing in common, or had that in common. So, I learned about the struggles of other people. But, no, I didn't plan to make a career out of being homeless and spend the rest of my life homeless, but, it was where I was at the time, so I had to survive on the streets. Now, I live in my 24 foot semi-converted shuttle bus van. Someone said they offered me a job and I didn't accept. Well, just because we offer someone a job, doesn't mean they have to accept it and doesn't mean they want that type of job or they feel they can do that job or they want to work for someone in the church which can be too close and cause problems or they may not want to move over thousand miles north to some cold place and work on fixing things in the cold winter time when they already live in a nice, warm, mild and temperate place. Also, this idea that if someone reaches out for help and someone says they won't help the other person because they don't want to enable them, that is a cliche' cop out excuse and not a very good reason for not helping people. It's like someone hungry who comes begging to you for some food and you say I'm not going to give them any food because I don't want to enable them to keep on living like that. So, to let them starve is a better option. Ridiculous. It's also not Biblical, scriptural or Christian. Also, if someone's wife sees my video asking for help and walks away in disgust, well, what does that tell you about that person or how does that make me feel when I'm in a desperate situation? And, next time I see them, what am I going to think and feel about them? It's important to be careful what you think and say about others. Where's the love? Instead, it's all judgment. I've been on the side of being down and out, criticized and judged, and it's not fun, whether people think you deserve it or not. Some friends and workers really lack and fail on the side of compassion and mercy. But, not just them, sometimes, all of us do. It's often about criticism, judgement and punishment with some of these people. Not about comfort, encouragement, forgiveness and the love of Christ. We all need to learn from these things. Exposing ourselves to the struggles and sufferings of others is a good way to get exercised and stronger in working with and understanding humanity. Reading about Jesus and how he worked with people is very helpful. Thinking of his love and compassion and forgiveness for our own mistakes, failures, struggles and sufferings, can help us to try to do the same for others. We have a choice to either help people or not. We choose what we're going to do. And, those who need help have a choice to either suffer in silence alone or to reach out to others. Sometimes people keep it all to themselves and end up killing themselves and people say later, why didn't they reach out the talk to someone. And, then when you do reach out and tell others, some people judge you for that, too. So, you can't please some people whether you're dead or alive. They're never satisfied. So, when you really need help, you just have to ask someone and face the consequences, either way. When you're in survival-mode, you must do what you have to do to survive. What others think about it becomes less important than your survival. Only those who've been there know what that means. Since I hit my hard times, I've had some very kind people help me and I've had others criticize. I appreciate the helpers and I understand the critics. If everything is going well in our own lives and we don't need any help, it's hard to understand those who may be in a totally different situation. I appreciate those here who tried to understand and went to bat for me. It was humbling to read the comments of people talking about me and my life and my situation and making judgments one way or another. It's not easy or very pleasant to go public with your story about losing everything and asking others for help. We usually keep that all private. But, sometimes things get so bad that we are so desperate that we reach out to others at the expense of facing great embarrassment and criticism. But, in survival, you do what you got to do to survive, whether anyone understands or not. In the movie, 127 Hours, the guy got stuck in a canyon in Utah. He cried out for help. Nobody could hear him. He was hungry and out of water and he knew if he didn't do something, he'd die there. So, he did what nobody would normally do and had to cut off his own arm to get out of there. He walked out and some people found him and he survived. He did what he had to do to survive. Later, people probably asked him why did he go hiking? Why did you go alone? Why didn't you wait for help longer? Why did you cut your arm off? Did you really have to cut your arm off? Maybe some even were disgusted and thought, it's his fault, I wouldn't help him, he must be punished, must suffer the consequences and I would not help him because I don't want to enable him. But, whether people liked it or not, agreed or not, he did what he thought he had to do to survive. And, he's alive today and he took the bad experience and turned it into a book and movie and he does public speaking around the world. So, he went from being stuck alone in a canyon and feeling hopeless and facing death to surviving and thriving. I'm happy for him. I wish him well. I'm glad he's alive. There's many ways you can help someone, not just in donating money, obviously. If someone reaches out to you for help, whatever you do, be sure to let them know you care about them. Don't just tell them, I'll pray for you later on, if I remember, but do it with them, right then and there. Give people a hug. Tell them you love them. You never know, some people may be so down and out that they are on the verge of suicide and your love and kindness can help them have a reason to live for and to keep on going. Some people and churches are not very good at making people feel loved, so this is something we all must work on. Some people are all alone and don't have close families or any family. They will benefit from people showing them love. I think we've all experienced sometimes what it's like to be mean to people. But, we don't want people to be mean to us. So, share the love. Some people, friends and workers, donated and helped me. Some were very kind and supportive. And, even some "exes" sent help. And, total strangers around the world. I had almost 800 people in many countries around the world donate to my Indiegogo crowd funding campaign. I worked hard to promote it. I worked it day and night for 60 days. I worked out of free wifi at coffee shops. I had to extend from the first 30 days to another 30 days for a total of 60 days. We finished the 60 days still short $600. But, because I was so close, Indiegogo / IGG offered to let me extend 3 more days, so I was able to reach the goal and exceed it by $200. In crowd funding, it's very important to reach the goal. Crowd funding is not easy, but takes a lot of work to promote and takes a lot of contacts. I invited 30 people to be on my team. My greatest helper was someone from overseas who was once a total stranger, but became a good friend. I never could've made it without him. He helped promote my campaign worldwide and together we reached the goal. I am forever grateful to all those who helped whether by donating, hoping, praying or wishing me well, whether they voiced it or in silence. The campaign was to get me another van and help me start my online business and brand. It was a good success. Not bad for someone living homeless on the street. It took me 9 months and 12 days of being homeless on the street until I found my bus van. After the crowd funding and living homeless on the street, I was mentally exhausted, burned out and mentally depressed. So, it took me several years to kind of get my head together. I'm finally feeling much better. So, things took a lot longer to accomplish than I had hoped. I'm still working on it. It's labor of love. A journey. Thanks for all who cared and shared or hoped and prayed for me. I lived and survived homeless on the streets for 9 months and 12 days until I finally found and bought my shuttle bus. I've lived in my bus over 3 years now. People wonder why I keep living homeless on the road. Yes, it's by choice, but also by necessity. Because it's the cheapest way I can survive while I slowly work my way back up. I don't have to pay rent or mortgage so I can live on very little money. Because of some health problems, I was not able to hold a regular job. Living this way was less stressful, less pressure has allowed me to work on improving my health. Also, the low overhead allows me to work on my online social media venture which I hope will some day sustain me. There are estimated between 1-2 million people nationwide who are mobile homeless in America. They live in cars, vans, campers and motorhomes. They live this way for many personal reasons. Either for fun and recreation or for survival. Some are young and doing it to live cheap and road trip and travel or save money. Some lost their job, got divorced or fell on hard times or health problems. Some are retired snow birds who live in a home up north in the summer and live in an RV down south in the winter. I came here to post and update. I am not hear to debate, argue or fight with people online. I have no interest or intention of causing trouble on this site. I have plenty of things to keep me busy with these days. So I won't be coming here much or maybe not at all. If anyone knows me, remembers me or cares to keep in touch, you can find me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or YouTube, by searching: ROAD WARRIORS 360. Special thanks to Dale P.; Bruce M.; Alan V. and many others for being good friends over the years. There are others here who may know me, but I'm not sure who you are behind your anonymous names, so thanks to all of you. To any of my old professing friends or worker companions or co-workers in the ministry, I think of you and I hope to see you again some day. I miss being up in Washington State. I really miss the people, friends and workers, being at some of the conventions up there, the great outdoors and nature and hiking and camping. I hope to get up there again some day. Look me up if you're ever in S. California. And, Mr. Apples and all the others I used to haggle with and cause turmoil on your board with, don't worry, I have no interest in that anymore. I have better things to do these days. Forgive and forget and move on. You won't need to ban me anymore, instead, it will be I who decides whether to come or go or stay or delete my account. To the person who posted above here who said that Miley Cyrus could do more for the homeless, today is going on 4 years since your post and there's been over 1,000 homeless living in the Santa Ana Riverbed and I've never heard or read anything about Miley helping or visiting them. But, I was there and I filmed about their plight recently. I will post it up on YouTube eventually. I realize your comment was an off the cuff smart alec remark, but this campaign was about helping me get back on my feet and in return I could help others. People thought Snoop Dogg was going to visit and help the homeless there, but he never showed up. Instead, he bought a nice place to live in Toronto, Canada. He hates Trump. I've never heard of Jimmy Kimmel being there either. And, Conan flew to Haiti to make himself look good in the news, but never heard of him or any other celebrity trying to help the homeless here in L.A. or Orange County. If all these rich and famous celebrities invested as much money as they did in time bashing the President of the United States, they probably could have solved homelessness by now. The idea of my campaign was to help me because the police towed my old van away and left me homeless on the street and I had no where to live and couldn't afford another van or place to live. And, in return for helping me, I would continue to help others. That's all. I didn't say or think I was ever going to be able to compete with the rich and famous. Never crossed my mind. It was just to make it a part of my life from day to day, one on one, wherever I go. I do what I can wherever I am. That's all. Nothing too grandiose. I hope everyone is doing well out there. If anyone is in the Orange County, CA area, I enjoy meeting people, making new friends or seeing old ones. Search and contact me through my social media or via the private message option here, as I may not come here. I mainly focus on Instagram. I will be making more videos on YouTube asap. I'm working on making stickers and t-shirt designs and other stuff to sustain myself over time. If anyone suffers from depression, I've struggled with it, studied, researched and experimented with various natural health remedies and I'm having great results with 100% feeling good. I will share what I do with you, to help you, if you or someone you know needs help. It's all natural. I don't go to doctors or take any drugs. I am into holistic natural alternative medicine. And, no, it's not Amway, Shakley or some other MLM, but stuff you can buy at your local health food store. And, no, I don't make money on it. I just try to help people. Post a comment to say hello or follow me on my Instagram below if you feel like it. But, I won't be spending much time here. This was meant to be a good friendly message and no hard feelings or blame or criticism or judgement toward anyone -- so please keep it that way! Please don't hold anything I shared here against me, my friends, family or relatives. Please don't spread any mean, hurtful or damaging rumors. No criticism, judgement, bullying or personal attacks. And, also, don't label me as an "ex" or enemy of the church and ministry. I'm not. I am still a follower of Jesus and believe in the Bible. I hope this message is helpful and clears up any doubts, confusion, misunderstanding and wondering. If not, oh, well, at least I tried. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. God bless all those who live for and seek His blessing. Sincerely, Jeff T. Read ROAD WARRIORS 360 Orange County, California, USA www.instagram.com/roadwarriors360/i remember when you went in to the work jeff you gave me your hat from chelan as a gift as you went off into the work. i still have it around here somewhere. sorry you have fallen on hard times...
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Post by mod4 on Apr 13, 2018 1:03:16 GMT -5
Jeff a very big welcome back, from all of us on Admin's team
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Post by jeffread on Jul 21, 2018 14:43:55 GMT -5
Hello Mod4! Not sure who you are? Are you Apples? Just stopping by. Is there any way to boost this topic to get it more exposure so I might be able to connect with more people who know me and whom I know, from the past? Thank you for the welcome back! JR
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Post by jeffread on Jul 21, 2018 14:48:53 GMT -5
Hi Wally. I was trying to remember you and the hat. I think it was a Blue Chelan growers hat with a red apple on it? I think I remember you. Was that at Olympia Preps / Convention time? 1981? I think I know who you are. Your handle name is based on your last name, right? Private message me if you want. Thanks. JR i remember when you went in to the work jeff you gave me your hat from chelan as a gift as you went off into the work. i still have it around here somewhere. sorry you have fallen on hard times...
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Post by jeffread on Jul 21, 2018 14:51:39 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that I'm glad you're doing better and that others are also better off because of you. All the best to you Jeff. Hi Snow. Good to hear from you. Do you know me from the past? Private message if you want. Thanks. JR
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Post by jeffread on Jul 21, 2018 15:10:37 GMT -5
Hi Fixit. Next month will be 4 years since this post originated. Please let Miley know there's still a bunch of homeless all over California. Over 1000 of them were being evicted from living on the Santa Ana River in Anaheim not far from Angel's Stadium, The Pond and Disneyland. None of the homeless heard from or saw Miley there. But, I was there. I talked to the people. I prayed with them. I interviewed and filmed them for my YouTube channel. I spent a couple of days there getting familiar with their situation. If Miley spent more time helping the homeless instead of twerking her butt off, she could accomplish a lot more. Ha. And, what have you done for the homeless over the last 4 years since this topic? There's no reason why you and others can't help someone in need wherever you are. I encourage you and everyone to take time to help someone in need. It doesn't have to be about money. You can help by just taking time to talk to or pray with someone, share a bottle of water, some food, give a gift card for food or coffee, donate an old used cell phone that can be used on free wifi, give some socks or a blanket or backpack or whatever. Be sure to do this with others since it's not always wise or safe to do it alone. All the best. JR
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 17:54:01 GMT -5
i remember when you went in to the work jeff you gave me your hat from chelan as a gift as you went off into the work. i still have it around here somewhere. sorry you have fallen on hard times... good memory jeff, your right. glad to hear from you. wish i was in a position to help you out but i am not at this time. i'll be praying for you though....
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 21, 2018 18:06:25 GMT -5
Quite agree with what you've written, Jeff. I was so glad to meet you back when. I'm still in Las Vegas, remember, when you pass through town.
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