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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Apr 15, 2014 11:15:35 GMT -5
Hi
I understand that modesty (in dress and in all things) is expected of those that endeavor to serve God.
My question is where in the scripture are we told that a female should dress with their knees covered.
Also if a woman should have her head covered when attending church/meeting and hair as we know was given to women as a covering then as men should have there heads uncovered should they not shave their heads.
Are we not told that the plaiting of the hair is wrong
Just wondering how 2x2's can explain this
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Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 14:41:29 GMT -5
I don't believe god says to wear clothes even. However mankind seemed to think it was a good idea and in colder climes they were quite right. A few men that couldn't handle looking at a woman's body that was attractive made the rest of the rules.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 14:45:34 GMT -5
1Ti_2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
and whats good for the gander is good for the goose...as they say...
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Apr 15, 2014 15:30:18 GMT -5
Yes I stand four square behind that verse. But who decided that the covering of the knees is necessary to = modest apparel. Is that not man trying to play God. Why allow braided hair - is it because man sees it as good now so scripture is wrong Guess the 2x2 Chief Priests want to see who is willing to follow them DESPITE what scripture says I prefer to as God for his definition of modesty and to guide me. He wont lead me astray and is concerned with what is inside.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 15:35:13 GMT -5
my only thought is the modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently...
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Post by gecko45 on Apr 15, 2014 15:41:42 GMT -5
Hi I understand that modesty (in dress and in all things) is expected of those that endeavor to serve God. My question is where in the scripture are we told that a female should dress with their knees covered. Also if a woman should have her head covered when attending church/meeting and hair as we know was given to women as a covering then as men should have there heads uncovered should they not shave their heads. Are we not told that the plaiting of the hair is wrong Just wondering how 2x2's can explain this If it is explained it certainly won't have definitive scripture backing it up. More than likely if you approach a worker with such questions they will turn the tables on you and you will end up defending yourself from accusations of being "contentious" or "rebellious". The "rules" concerning dress and appearance are more a result of the puritan and Victorian influence from the time of the earliest workers. More so than anything scriptural. Unless you are desiring a meeting in your home or want to be baptized there is very little reason to care about abiding by such "rules". Wearing 19th century clothes and hair is not modesty, its making a spectacle of one's self and drawing attention. Not at all what modesty is about.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 16:45:05 GMT -5
1Ti_2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; and whats good for the gander is good for the goose...as they say... Can anyone tell me just why we women need "adorn" ourselves in shamefacedness!
What have got to be "shamefaced" about?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 16:52:22 GMT -5
Hi I understand that modesty (in dress and in all things) is expected of those that endeavor to serve God. My question is where in the scripture are we told that a female should dress with their knees covered. Also if a woman should have her head covered when attending church/meeting and hair as we know was given to women as a covering then as men should have there heads uncovered should they not shave their heads. Are we not told that the plaiting of the hair is wrong Just wondering how 2x2's can explain this If it is explained it certainly won't have definitive scripture backing it up. More than likely if you approach a worker with such questions they will turn the tables on you and you will end up defending yourself from accusations of being "contentious" or "rebellious". The "rules" concerning dress and appearance are more a result of the puritan and Victorian influence from the time of the earliest workers. More so than anything scriptural. Unless you are desiring a meeting in your home or want to be baptized there is very little reason to care about abiding by such "rules". Wearing 19th century clothes and hair is not modesty, its making a spectacle of one's self and drawing attention. Not at all what modesty is about. It wasn't about the hair but was that we shouldn't be "contentious" was exactly the words used when I took the unheard of liberty to ask a brother worker about WHY women had to wear long hair!
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Post by Gene on Apr 15, 2014 16:52:44 GMT -5
1Ti_2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; and whats good for the gander is good for the goose...as they say... Can anyone tell me just why we women need "adorn" ourselves in shamefacedness!
What have got to be "shamefaced" about?Why, for leading Adam astray with that poisoned apple, of course!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 17:01:18 GMT -5
Hi I understand that modesty (in dress and in all things) is expected of those that endeavor to serve God. My question is where in the scripture are we told that a female should dress with their knees covered.Also if a woman should have her head covered when attending church/meeting and hair as we know was given to women as a covering then as men should have there heads uncovered should they not shave their heads. Are we not told that the plaiting of the hair is wrong Just wondering how 2x2's can explain this A female should dress with their "knees covered"? Once it was ANKLES covered!
Then it inched up a bit -the hem of your dress was to be measured by the height of a hymn book! then --oh hum, how tiresome!
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Post by Gene on Apr 15, 2014 17:05:20 GMT -5
Hi I understand that modesty (in dress and in all things) is expected of those that endeavor to serve God. My question is where in the scripture are we told that a female should dress with their knees covered.Also if a woman should have her head covered when attending church/meeting and hair as we know was given to women as a covering then as men should have there heads uncovered should they not shave their heads. Are we not told that the plaiting of the hair is wrong Just wondering how 2x2's can explain this A female should dress with their "knees covered"? Once it was ANKLES covered!
Then it inched up a bit -the hem of your dress was to be measured by the height of a hymn book! then --oh hum, how tiresome!
The height of a hymn book? Yikes! From the knees, up, or from the waist, down?!?
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Apr 15, 2014 17:45:12 GMT -5
Well Wally
I looked down the mall and saw such variance in the way people dressed I decided that unless I was to totally undress apart from maybe a scarf it would be hard to be different.
I don't read anywhere that either Jesus or his disciples were known to dress differently from others.
The difference should be seen in our spirit, love and compassion, not because we stick out like a sore thumb in the way we dress
Maybe a few dollars in the right direction could change the view/standard expected by the 2x2's
Chief Priests don't like to endanger donations
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 18:40:40 GMT -5
A female should dress with their "knees covered"? Once it was ANKLES covered!
Then it inched up a bit -the hem of your dress was to be measured by the height of a hymn book! then --oh hum, how tiresome!
The height of a hymn book? Yikes! From the knees, up, or from the waist, down?!? Gene! The height of the hymn book was FROM THE FLOOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE HEM!
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Post by Gene on Apr 15, 2014 18:43:20 GMT -5
The height of a hymn book? Yikes! From the knees, up, or from the waist, down?!? Gene! The height of the hymn book was FROM THE FLOOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE HEM!
Whew! That's a relief! My mind were conjuring up images, it were!
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 15, 2014 18:51:57 GMT -5
Gene! The height of the hymn book was FROM THE FLOOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE HEM!
Whew! That's a relief! My mind were conjuring up images, it were! The greater the tease 'twill be!
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Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 18:53:29 GMT -5
my only thought is the modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently... Now I understand the mentality. If the world does it, we can't cause it's worldly. That's why I don't see very many of the friends in soup kitchens.
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Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 19:17:16 GMT -5
1Ti_2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; ... ---------- My wife (also a ex 2x2) regrets not having a "normal" childhood. She resents the 2x2 "dress code", not being able to dress like others in school, no pants allowed - ever, made to drop out of sports due to dress code, drop out of band, and drop out of gym class due to dress code, etc. When we moved to another state we were shocked that some friends wore pants when working outside! Many wore wedding rings! We never got a wedding ring due to that verse. It didn't bother me, but it was another of her regrets. (Yes I know things have changed.) I don't want to take away the plight of 2x2 women, but the Islam dress code is much worse. For a real eye opener on religions misogyny check out the New York Times best seller; infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As I read the book I saw a lot of parallels in the 2x2, but to a lesser extreme. Truly a brave woman. Book Description Publication Date: June 1, 2007 One of today’s most admired and controversial political figures, Ayaan Hirsi Ali burst into international headlines following the murder of Theo van Gogh by an Islamist who threatened that she would be next. She made headlines again when she was stripped of her citizenship and resigned from the Dutch Parliament. Infidel shows the coming of age of this distinguished political superstar and champion of free speech as well as the development of her beliefs, iron will, and extraordinary determination to fight injustice. Raised in a strict Muslim family, Hirsi Ali survived civil war, female mutilation, brutal beatings, adolescence as a devout believer during the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, and life in four troubled, unstable countries ruled largely by despots. She escaped from a forced marriage and sought asylum in the Netherlands, where she earned a college degree in political science, tried to help her tragically depressed sister adjust to the West, and fought for the rights of Muslim women and the reform of Islam as a member of Parliament. Under constant threat, demonized by reactionary Islamists and politicians, disowned by her father, and expelled from family and clan, she refuses to be silenced. Ultimately a celebration of triumph over adversity, Hirsi Ali’s story tells how a bright little girl evolves out of dutiful obedience to become an outspoken, pioneering freedom fighter. As Western governments struggle to balance democratic ideals with religious pressures, no other book could be more timely or more significant.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 19:23:11 GMT -5
my only thought is the modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently... I see. So if the worlds hems are above the knees, ours should be dragging the floor, but if the world's happens to be dragging the floor, then ours should be above the knees. The world's happens to be midis our should be minis, if the worlds is minis our should be midis.
Oh, geeze! up, down! so much to worry about!
And keeps us having to buy new dresses! Hey, - but now that's not such a bad thing!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -5
don't be silly...if the world is modest(rarely) follow the modesty if the world is risque DO NOT be risque also...no rocket science needed...
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 22:12:50 GMT -5
don't be silly...if the world is modest(rarely) follow the modesty if the world is risque DO NOT be risque also...no rocket science needed... Wally, You used terms such as different & differently!
You stated that , "modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently..."
My point was, why does one purposely have to look at what world does, and then purposely dress differently in order to be a godly woman?
Why should a woman even have to note what is the apparel of the "world" before deciding what she should wear that would be different?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 22:29:48 GMT -5
why you don't want to look like the world: 1Th_5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 15, 2014 23:30:23 GMT -5
why you don't want to look like the world: 1Th_5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. My understanding was that you weren't speaking of dressing in a way that gave the appearance of anything "evil," but rather that "modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently..."
How does one equate "appearance of evil" with just "doing differently...?"
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Post by emy on Apr 15, 2014 23:38:15 GMT -5
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Post by gecko45 on Apr 15, 2014 23:48:46 GMT -5
why you don't want to look like the world: 1Th_5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. The rule makers & enforcers have gotten a lot of mileage out of that verse. Especially when they decide what is evil. Years ago it was used to discourage an interracial relationship. It's still getting trotted out these days, heard it quoted when asked about whether a movie theater was appropriate or not. I wonder if they have ever stopped to think about how it appears to have two unmarried same sex adults working and living together, all the while referring to each other as "my companion"?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 0:22:09 GMT -5
why you don't want to look like the world: 1Th_5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. My understanding was that you weren't speaking of dressing in a way that gave the appearance of anything "evil," but rather that "modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently..."
How does one equate "appearance of evil" with just "doing differently...?"
risque dressing is to be avoided when you combine the two verses i gave you... the opposite of modest is immodest which would be considered evil...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 0:26:43 GMT -5
why you don't want to look like the world: 1Th_5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. The rule makers & enforcers have gotten a lot of mileage out of that verse. Especially when they decide what is evil. Years ago it was used to discourage an interracial relationship. It's still getting trotted out these days, heard it quoted when asked about whether a movie theater was appropriate or not. I wonder if they have ever stopped to think about how it appears to have two unmarried same sex adults working and living together, all the while referring to each other as "my companion"? although the bible says nothing about going to movies or not going, i think its wise to not go very often because of all the filth thats out there...that said i have been to see a few PG rated movies when i was younger and found them to be harmless...
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 16, 2014 1:43:31 GMT -5
My understanding was that you weren't speaking of dressing in a way that gave the appearance of anything "evil," but rather that "modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently..."
How does one equate "appearance of evil" with just "doing differently...?"
risque dressing is to be avoided when you combine the two verses i gave you... the opposite of modest is immodest which would be considered evil... I think that you still don't understand what I'm saying. This what you said in you original post:
"modest apparel must be different then what the world does, so look at what is popular in dress nowadays and do differently..." To me it seems to be that you are saying is to first look at the world and whatever they are doing you just do the opposite
So we should be observing what the "world" does and what ever it does, we are to do just the opposite?
Should one really be that involved in looking at the world that much?
Isn't that a terrible waste of one's time? Especially just so that we can do differently?
You didn't say don't dress in a "risque dressing" or "immodest"manner.
You just said to look at what is "popular in dress" nowadays and do differently..
Not all popular clothes today in the world are "risque or immodest".
Unless perhaps in the eye of the beholder?
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Post by matisse on Apr 16, 2014 3:32:04 GMT -5
I wonder if they have ever stopped to think about how it appears to have two unmarried same sex adults working and living together, all the while referring to each other as "my companion"? I ran into a brother worker last year who referred to his companion as "my colleague".....so maybe they are becoming more aware.
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