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Post by Brick on Feb 25, 2014 9:04:41 GMT -5
The following is an excerpt from an email that was put in circulation on 2/15:
"This message will confirm that the convention ground in Quakertown, PA is being offered for sale. The property consists of 58 +/- acres on a paved road in an urban setting, but is taxed as a farm. It includes a large, modernized home and multiple outbuildings as you would expect a convention property to have. All buildings are in good repair. The property is situated in a manner that will lend itself to being parceled off without infringing on the convention ground area . Some of the ground is leased annually to a local farmer for planting and harvesting corn and other farm crops. If you have an interest in exploring the possible options of ownership, please contact your overseer..."
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 25, 2014 9:28:08 GMT -5
I am a farmer. Who is my overseer, real estate agent? Do you know the crop insurance numbers? What's the aph. Corn or soybeans ,tiled. , average yield, etc. Man, it is so hard now days being overseer with new USA farm bill just now on effect etc. Don't even know the rules for csa yet for ministers and now all this other business rules. Oh, I know it says it will be hard to be homeless and all that, but what to do what to do. With the proceeds from the sale of the property, do we build another meeting shed or spend on airlines what, yes, a few lawyer fees but this is just so demanding and then we have our own people rebelling in new Zealand and Internet demons on the trail and now I wonder if I should have put my name on the resting list instead of.......... and the thunder rolls ....... alvin
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 10:16:54 GMT -5
Brick ~ Did the workers close down another convention grounds or are the owners wanting a break from convention life?
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Post by gecko45 on Feb 25, 2014 11:37:52 GMT -5
They're must be having a difficult time finding suitable new owners of the grounds if they have to send an mass email canvassing for a suitable family.
I have never been privy to the transfer a convention ground from one family to another but in my limited experience it is all done behind the scenes and only announced when the deal is completed.
Are the current owners getting elderly?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 12:36:23 GMT -5
Getting conventions transferred over appears to be getting more difficult all the time. The one in Kansas took several years before someone stepped up if I recall, and the price sounded pretty reasonable.
What compounds the difficulty is implied in the email in the OP. "Contact your overseer", which really means you are going to get vetted for suitability while you analyze the suitability of the property for your own purposes. So they need someone not only with a fair bit of money, but also who are sufficiently committed to the workers and the convention system.
I find it interesting that a number of the economic aspects of the property are being conveyed, as if to "sell" it on an economic basis (rental income, development potential) rather than to preserve a convention. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is obvious that there isn't a lineup of people wanting it solely to maintain the convention. Besides, being only an hour from Philadelphia and 1.5 hours from NYC, I presume it's a pricey property so the economic aspects may be essential for some potential buyers.
Sooner or later the convention system will have to change to something more moderate and convenient. Keeping these pseudo-farms going for convention of 3 or 4 days/year is getting to be a considerable burden.
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 13:11:23 GMT -5
Getting conventions transferred over appears to be getting more difficult all the time. The one in Kansas took several years before someone stepped up if I recall, and the price sounded pretty reasonable. What compounds the difficulty is implied in the email in the OP. "Contact your overseer", which really means you are going to get vetted for suitability while you analyze the suitability of the property for your own purposes. So they need someone not only with a fair bit of money, but also who are sufficiently committed to the workers and the convention system. I find it interesting that a number of the economic aspects of the property are being conveyed, as if to "sell" it on an economic basis (rental income, development potential) rather than to preserve a convention. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is obvious that there isn't a lineup of people wanting it solely to maintain the convention. Besides, being only an hour from Philadelphia and 1.5 hours from NYC, I presume it's a pricey property so the economic aspects may be essential for some potential buyers.
Sooner or later the convention system will have to change to something more moderate and convenient. Keeping these pseudo-farms going for convention of 3 or 4 days/year is getting to be a considerable burden. Clearday ~ I also found the mass E-mail as possibility suggestive of a change in convention as we know it. The fact is, they have already closed down and consolidated a few convention grounds due to attendance dropping off and expense. Perhaps this is another one for the chopping block? However, I suspect the owner of Quakertown are pretty elderly by now and not able to maintain the grounds like they have done for years?
Here's some interesting information on the different locales and the Truth practices in that region as well as the convention grounds listed for each state.
www.angelfire.com/nt/pmbrules/
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Post by christiansburg on Feb 25, 2014 13:21:03 GMT -5
I am a farmer. Who is my overseer, real estate agent? Do you know the crop insurance numbers? What's the aph. Corn or soybeans ,tiled. , average yield, etc. Man, it is so hard now days being overseer with new USA farm bill just now on effect etc. Don't even know the rules for csa yet for ministers and now all this other business rules. Oh, I know it says it will be hard to be homeless and all that, but what to do what to do. With the proceeds from the sale of the property, do we build another meeting shed or spend on airlines what, yes, a few lawyer fees but this is just so demanding and then we have our own people rebelling in new Zealand and Internet demons on the trail and now I wonder if I should have put my name on the resting list instead of.......... and the thunder rolls ....... alvin This is absolutely a lot of unnecessary nit picking chatter. Maybe you intended it to be that way.
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Post by christiansburg on Feb 25, 2014 13:26:02 GMT -5
They're must be having a difficult time finding suitable new owners of the grounds if they have to send an mass email canvassing for a suitable family. I have never been privy to the transfer a convention ground from one family to another but in my limited experience it is all done behind the scenes and only announced when the deal is completed. Are the current owners getting elderly? The owners are getting older. But more than that they have given many years of their life time and property for the help of other people. There is a special blessing for those who make such sacrifices.
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 13:29:53 GMT -5
They're must be having a difficult time finding suitable new owners of the grounds if they have to send an mass email canvassing for a suitable family. I have never been privy to the transfer a convention ground from one family to another but in my limited experience it is all done behind the scenes and only announced when the deal is completed. Are the current owners getting elderly? The owners are getting older. But more than that they have given many years of their life time and property for the help of other people. There is a special blessing for those who make such sacrifices. Gecko45 ~ According to this article, it appears that the original owners, Bill and Mickie Schweigofer, may have passed on in 2011? Perhaps they have been looking for new owners for a few years now and having difficulty finding somebody to take over the convention grounds?
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Post by SharonArnold on Feb 25, 2014 13:31:41 GMT -5
I am a farmer. Who is my overseer, real estate agent? Do you know the crop insurance numbers? What's the aph. Corn or soybeans ,tiled. , average yield, etc. Man, it is so hard now days being overseer with new USA farm bill just now on effect etc. Don't even know the rules for csa yet for ministers and now all this other business rules. Oh, I know it says it will be hard to be homeless and all that, but what to do what to do. With the proceeds from the sale of the property, do we build another meeting shed or spend on airlines what, yes, a few lawyer fees but this is just so demanding and then we have our own people rebelling in new Zealand and Internet demons on the trail and now I wonder if I should have put my name on the resting list instead of.......... and the thunder rolls ....... alvin This is absolutely a lot of unnecessary nit picking chatter. Maybe you intended it to be that way. Well, I found it hilarious, which I think was Alvin's intention. Maybe you need to be Canadian to appreciate the humor. Or to know Alvin.
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Post by christiansburg on Feb 25, 2014 13:59:55 GMT -5
The owners are getting older. But more than that they have given many years of their life time and property for the help of other people. There is a special blessing for those who make such sacrifices. Gecko45 ~ According to this article, it appears that the original owners, Bill and Mickie Schweigofer, may have passed on in 2011? Perhaps they have been looking for new owners for a few years now and having difficulty finding somebody to take over the convention grounds?
Mickie is still alive. It was Bill who passed away a few years ago.
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Post by christiansburg on Feb 25, 2014 14:04:14 GMT -5
This is absolutely a lot of unnecessary nit picking chatter. Maybe you intended it to be that way. Well, I found it hilarious, which I think was Alvin's intention. Maybe you need to be Canadian to appreciate the humor. Or to know Alvin. OK, Sharon, I'll take you at your word. I know lots of Canadians but guess I don't understand their satire.
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Post by jondough on Feb 25, 2014 14:36:40 GMT -5
Beautiful Country!
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Post by rational on Feb 25, 2014 14:49:50 GMT -5
The owners are getting older. If they were getting younger I would be interested in purchasing the farm and opening a resort!
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Post by snow on Feb 25, 2014 15:30:12 GMT -5
Well maybe the overseers should purchase the property and keep it as a convention ground, but also it could have other functions such as a summer camp for professing kids, or a boot camp for troubled 2x2 teens. The list is quite endless what you could do. Turn it into a paint ball facility... sorry guess not! But you get my drift.
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Post by rational on Feb 25, 2014 15:34:09 GMT -5
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 17:22:03 GMT -5
Well maybe the overseers should purchase the property and keep it as a convention ground, but also it could have other functions such as a summer camp for professing kids, or a boot camp for troubled 2x2 teens. The list is quite endless what you could do. Turn it into a paint ball facility... sorry guess not! But you get my drift. Snow ~ You present some good ideas above for convention purposes during off months.
I'm sure the overseers would have the funds stashed away somewhere to purchase the grounds and turn a profit during the rest of the year, if they so desired? Actually, George Walker and Jack Carroll were both good at investing the friends monies in stocks and/or real estate adventures from different accounts I have read here in the past. However, overseers involvement might also affect their "homeless ministry" image with the friends if they got involved in purchasing convention grounds as real estate? After all, we wouldn't want to add another monkey wrench to the works and get the IRS involved in some investigation of their finances? Besides, I feel they have enough to deal with these days with all the CSA scandals over past years that are coming to light?
professing.proboards.com/thread/21636/paying-fair-share?page=1
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 18:24:32 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Feb 25, 2014 18:34:27 GMT -5
lol Rational, you're on a roll today! I'm getting really sick of snow drifts actually!
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Post by shipwreckedsailor on Feb 25, 2014 18:44:42 GMT -5
Time to pack up and head to Arizona!! (or Florida!)
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Post by faune on Feb 25, 2014 18:44:51 GMT -5
lol Rational, you're on a roll today! I'm getting really sick of snow drifts actually! Snow ~ I bet you are ready to head South again after this last winter, which still keeps sending those snow drifts your way? I'm sure South of the Border would look real good to you about now?
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Post by snow on Feb 25, 2014 20:35:15 GMT -5
lol Rational, you're on a roll today! I'm getting really sick of snow drifts actually! Snow ~ I bet you are ready to head South again after this last winter, which still keeps sending those snow drifts your way? I'm sure South of the Border would look real good to you about now? Yes, we picked a real bad winter to stay north of the border! However, the states haven't been getting it too nice this year either. But Yuma and Phoenix where we usually end up after travelling around aren't too bad. Lots better than here! So yes I'd rather be in Arizona right now!! Aw well. We'll get our cancer treatments over with and next fall we'll head down again!
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Post by emy on Feb 25, 2014 21:13:41 GMT -5
Time to pack up and head to Arizona!! (or Florida!) Sshhhh... She usually does, but can't this year!
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Post by snow on Feb 25, 2014 22:18:26 GMT -5
Time to pack up and head to Arizona!! (or Florida!) Sshhhh... She usually does, but can't this year! whispering, thanks Emy lol.
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Post by Brick on Feb 25, 2014 22:26:20 GMT -5
Brick ~ Did the workers close down another convention grounds or are the owners wanting a break from convention life? The current owner is no longer able to care for herself and is in fact cared for by various caregivers and members of her family. In the excerpt from the email that I posted, I cropped off some contact information that followed "contact your overseer..." There was an "or" with contact information including an email address that I felt that I don't have the right to publish since I was not a recipient of the original email. My point is that there was no intent in the email to have an overseer filter out perspective buyers. I expect those who regularly attend the convention would be happy for anyone to buy it that would allow the convention to continue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 22:32:38 GMT -5
Brick ~ Did the workers close down another convention grounds or are the owners wanting a break from convention life? The current owner is no longer able to care for herself and is in fact cared for by various caregivers and members of her family. In the excerpt from the email that I posted, I cropped off some contact information that followed "contact your overseer..." There was an "or" with contact information including an email address that I felt that I don't have the right to publish since I was not a recipient of the original email. My point is that there was no intent in the email to have an overseer filter out perspective buyers. I expect those who regularly attend the convention would be happy for anyone to buy it that would allow the convention to continue. Let's get this straight. You are saying that the "or" is a non-overseer non-worker (presumably a professing representative of the infirm owner) and that "or" person will make the sale decision without any input from overseers as long as someone is willing to continue conventions on the property? Sorry, that was a long sentence!
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Post by gecko45 on Feb 25, 2014 22:39:57 GMT -5
As the numbers decline it is harder and harder to get suitable owners for convention grounds.
The candidates must be devoted system people, ideally they would already have a meeting in their home (Sunday meeting, not just a Wednesday bible study). They need to be reasonably affluent to make the initial purchase and then maintain the property as well as pay taxes. They need to be able to make a living on a piece of property that may not be ideally located to a place of employment or farming. Most were farms in the early days but I would hazard a guess that less than half are active farms. The owners need to be able to drop everything when they are needed at preps. They are expected to watch over the grounds all year, deal with storm damage, frozen pipes, shoddy wiring (installed by an unqualified volunteer in 1952) etc. They need to have electrical, water and sewer systems capable of servicing hundreds of people for only about 1% of the year. They need to deal with modern fire codes, building regulations, food safety requirements, etc, plus any liability should an accident occur.
To the past generation it was a privilege and honor that exceeded having a Sunday morning meeting in their home. Today's generation often see it as a lot of work and headache.
They would be expected to host several meals for many workers during preps and convention.
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Post by emy on Feb 25, 2014 22:46:08 GMT -5
They would be expected to host several meals for many workers during preps and convention.
Really?? For as long as I can remember, the owners, and sometimes others in the community have been hosted at meals by the workers! They may or may not use their own funds or provisions to do so.
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