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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 12, 2014 18:08:26 GMT -5
I have taken some quotes from the "It's complicated" thread, as I thought they and others there presented some interesting aspects to baching and how it is viewed by workers, friends, and "exes." I spent several years living in rented apartments or rooms, on Pohnpei and on Majuro Atoll. And dmmichgood is correct that this is done because of a lack of professing people in a region. We had none in our "field." As to whether workers would enjoy spending at least some time in a bach, away from friends, that is probably a mixed bag. Time to themselves can be coveted, depending on how large their field is in terms of numbers of friends, and how busy a schedule they kept. And, as a younger worker, the way an older companion worked and scheduled things varied a lot, and could make quite a difference in wishing one could have "time away." While on Majuro Atoll, we did not set up a permanent bach, but just kept a large duffle bag with a few utensils and such, finding a new place to rent each time we came back from convention on Guam (March) or in Hawai'i (November). We did this to live in different communities and meet new people, and I found it a very meaningful experience. But, the apartment we rented on Pohnpei had been rented for a number of years (I believe it was the 3rd apartment used over the 15 years or so workers had been there by that time, in 1985). I know that in some places in the Philippines too, certain baches had been used by the workers for years, almost becoming an "institution" in some ways, but I don't know the particular reasons they were used for so long. When I left Pohnpei after two years to return to California, Larry Taylor, who had been there some years before and returned just a year before I was reassigned, moved the bach the next year. I think he too felt it was good to keep moving, not just to "look like we didn't have a home," but in order to meet people and to keep ourselves from feeling too secure in any one spot. These are just a few thoughts that immediately occur to me, and there are many other aspects to it all. Anyone care to join in a discussion? Any workers or former workers have any input on it? I'm trying to convey my feeling that baches aren't necessarily "good" or "bad" in themselves, but their value is more determined by how they are used or misused, and that can vary immensely! University students live in rented premises for about 8 months at a time, a little less time than a worker is in a field, yet students live in "apartments" or "residence" and they don't say they are in a "batch" and "without a home"....it is their home. The reluctance of more workers to take up "batches" in a field (especially where there are minor children in some of those homes) may be because they fear people will see through the "batch" terminology and realize that the workers aren't so homeless after all. I don't believe that is their intent at all!
I'm not apt to side with with very much in the **TRUTH**, as you well know, , -however, this is one time that I don't think that is the workers intent at all. They set up "batchs" in foreign countries where the **TRUTH** hadn't yet been preached was simply because there weren't any friends where they could stay.
I would imagine that at this time & area they feel obliged to stay with friends. More than likely they would enjoy having time away in a batch from the stress of staying with friends all the time.
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Post by Sylvestra on Jan 12, 2014 18:34:25 GMT -5
The point I made in the mentioned thread was that the terminology "bach" is used among the friends, IMO, instead of "apartment" (when it was an apartment, indeed) because it sounds more humble, small, and less costly. This is not necessarily a fact, because I've seen pictures of some pretty NICE baches on the beach in some places!!
Now, as far as the workers living in an apartment rather than being "homeless", I think it is appropriate when there are very few homes, or none, for the workers accommodate in this way. I know the early workers walked many miles and often they slept in people's barns or in a cornfield, or whatever, and really were homeless. But, in this day-and-age, that is ridiculous to think about! Times change, needs are different from place to place. It seems much more important to carry out Holy Spirit's leading than following some set of rules for conformity on this (and many other) issues!
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 13, 2014 3:18:36 GMT -5
I think you make a good point regarding the use of the word "bach," Sylvestra. I also think the use of special terminology - "lingo" or "jargon" - serves to maintain a sense of difference among professing people and to keep others feeling they aren't "part of it" yet. I know that I grew nervous (as a worker) when I would hear "interest" say that they felt like they weren't "part of this," and older companions would say "That's the Spirit convicting you." I sensed acutely that our way of speaking served to make people feel left out, as any jargon or lingo can do. "Bach" can serve in this respect too, I believe. Your further observations are valid too. I do believe that time spent in a foreign country, where there aren't so many professing people, can prove to be a valuable experience, even in this manner of being "homeless." I have been in a few situations where we we didn't know if we were going to find a place to stay, and I remember one time when we had spent every penny in our pockets, but we were fortunately heading to an outer island (Likiep Atoll in the Marshalls), where we would be staying among the community. We paid no rent, but we had brought along enough food as our contribution for the few weeks we stayed. Upon our return to Majuro Atoll, we found letters awaiting us, some with funds in them. The point I made in the mentioned thread was that the terminology "bach" is used among the friends, IMO, instead of "apartment" (when it was an apartment, indeed) because it sounds more humble, small, and less costly. This is not necessarily a fact, because I've seen pictures of some pretty NICE baches on the beach in some places!! Now, as far as the workers living in an apartment rather than being "homeless", I think it is appropriate when there are very few homes, or none, for the workers accommodate in this way. I know the early workers walked many miles and often they slept in people's barns or in a cornfield, or whatever, and really were homeless. But, in this day-and-age, that is ridiculous to think about! Times change, needs are different from place to place. It seems much more important to carry out Holy Spirit's leading than following some set of rules for conformity on this (and many other) issues!
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Post by ScholarGal on Jan 13, 2014 9:45:31 GMT -5
Is "bach" short for "bachelor pad", or does it come from another word?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 13, 2014 9:51:55 GMT -5
Wiki Definition of bach
Infoplease.com: bach—v. bach it, to live alone or share living quarters with someone of the same sex, usually doing one's own housework, cooking, laundry, etc.
Merrimam-Webster: to live as a bachelor —often used with it
Dictionary.com: Noun 1. a bachelor. 2. New Zealand. a small weekend or vacation house or shack. 3. bach it, to live alone or share living quarters with someone of the same sex, usually doing one's own housework, cooking, laundry, etc.
Origin: 1850–55, Americanism; by shortening
Can be confused: Bach (music composer) and batch.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 13, 2014 18:39:03 GMT -5
Is "bach" short for "bachelor pad", or does it come from another word? I have always assumed it to be related to the word "bachelor" in some way. I'm quite sure that "batch" is incorrect, though it's use is understandable since "bach" is hardly recognizable as a term for an apartment anymore.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 13, 2014 18:43:28 GMT -5
All the workers stay in baches in Vietnam I'm told.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2014 3:09:55 GMT -5
Is "bach" short for "bachelor pad", or does it come from another word? I have always assumed it to be related to the word "bachelor" in some way. I'm quite sure that "batch" is incorrect, though it's use is understandable since "bach" is hardly recognizable as a term for an apartment anymore. You're right. "Batch" means a bunch, etc. "Bach" means bachelor apartment.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 14, 2014 4:33:02 GMT -5
You're right. "Batch" means a bunch, etc. "Bach" means bachelor apartment. So the sister workers stay in bachelor pads??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 6:35:46 GMT -5
You're right. "Batch" means a bunch, etc. "Bach" means bachelor apartment. So the sister workers stay in bachelor pads?? Eyup, Alan, You got it right...
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Post by someguy on Jan 14, 2014 23:58:50 GMT -5
I spent several years living in rented apartments or rooms, on Pohnpei and on Majuro Atoll. And dmmichgood is correct that this is done because of a lack of professing people in a region. We had none in our "field." Yet I know that in some areas in Brazil, they have and maybe still stay in bach's even though there are many friends. They got comfortable and don't want to give it up.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 15, 2014 0:28:19 GMT -5
I spent several years living in rented apartments or rooms, on Pohnpei and on Majuro Atoll. And dmmichgood is correct that this is done because of a lack of professing people in a region. We had none in our "field." Yet I know that in some areas in Brazil, they have and maybe still stay in bach's even though there are many friends. They got comfortable and don't want to give it up. I have visited areas where this appeared to be the case too, someguy. It's impossible to say there is just one situation, one reason for baching. I think it invites conversation, as most topics do!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 15, 2014 0:39:21 GMT -5
You're right. "Batch" means a bunch, etc. "Bach" means bachelor apartment. So the sister workers stay in bachelor pads?? Just overnight !!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 6:54:24 GMT -5
I have known workers in Scotland to occasionally rent a flat, cottage or apartment, although by and large they lodge with the Friends.
Gladys Harrison (God rest her soul) and her young companion stayed in a flat near where I live for at least one mission term, perhaps longer? The owner was an outsider and had no connection to meetings. Fair do to Gladioli, because she would go to great lengths to try and winkle out anyone who would raise even one ear for the gospel. She went after them like a terrier with a rag doll. If I am not mistaken, I think she rented (in twain) the flat as a means to create contact with outsiders, including the owner of the flat. The trouble with Glady is that she pressed things far too far.
Glady even bought bicycles at a local auction to use as transport for their time in the area. She sold them by the same means (I think) at the end of her term.
Unfortunately Glady was one of those who reaffirmed to myself that this "way" went all the way back to the Shores of Galilee (physically) when I asked her about the beginnings after being informed about the real beginnings by a local religious man who knew about the "truth!" I ended up in debate with that man, assured that I was in the right, whilst he insisted it began only about 100 years previously, etc. Glady knew better. She was of an age that knew about the real beginnings. It was all a matter of convenience, out of which I was made a fool!
Anyway, that's getting away from baching or batching. These terms are known over here, but are not all that commonly used, and only rarely if ever, amongst the Friendlies!
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Post by rational on Jan 17, 2014 16:52:59 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless?
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 17, 2014 18:47:38 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless? As I see it, Jesus' lack of depending on various "structures" that society deemed "security" has been turned into a rigid rule, used to "prove" "righteousness" or to display an assumed "humility." I was actually uncomfortable with talking about it much while I was in the work, feeling that a practice that could have been useful - a "blessing" - had been turned into something to prove we were right and "they" were wrong. I don't intend my statements as caustic or as denigrating friends and workers, but I do see people as prone to slipping into ways of saying and doing things that don't accurately represent what is really occurring.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 20:14:24 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless? Never once when a worker did I make the claim of being "homeless." However after I left that work, I knew what it meant to truly be homeless. Lived for some weeks in a borrowed pickup.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 8, 2014 1:11:27 GMT -5
A "bach" is usually a small dwelling. Nr the beach or on the beach. the smallest I remember as a kid would have been 8ft x 5ft. An old man lived in it and he would stand in the doorway for hrs a day smoking and chatting to everyone who walked past. His loo was a long drop The workers often stayed in a bach bk then.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 8, 2014 16:30:26 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless? As I see it, Jesus' lack of depending on various "structures" that society deemed "security" has been turned into a rigid rule, used to "prove" "righteousness" or to display an assumed "humility." I was actually uncomfortable with talking about it much while I was in the work, feeling that a practice that could have been useful - a "blessing" - had been turned into something to prove we were right and "they" were wrong. I don't intend my statements as caustic or as denigrating friends and workers, but I do see people as prone to slipping into ways of saying and doing things that don't accurately represent what is really occurring. It's easier for the masses to treat it as a "rule" than a matter to be evaluated.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 8, 2014 16:38:03 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless? One of the justifications I have heard is that it's evidence that God will provide for them. I know of quite a number of workers who were satisfied that God's provision was a haystack in some farmer's hayfield for a night or two. I don't really see the same faith in the workers who call and tell you they are coming to stay for a week. I recall now that when I was going to meetings I would make a point of inviting new workers in the area to come and visit before they had the opportunity to "tell me" that they were coming for a visit. I invited a few who wouldn't come to the house, too.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 8, 2014 18:54:51 GMT -5
Maybe someone knows the answer: What is the point of being, or claiming to be, homeless? One of the justifications I have heard is that it's evidence that God will provide for them. I know of quite a number of workers who were satisfied that God's provision was a haystack in some farmer's hayfield for a night or two. I don't really see the same faith in the workers who call and tell you they are coming to stay for a week. I recall now that when I was going to meetings I would make a point of inviting new workers in the area to come and visit before they had the opportunity to "tell me" that they were coming for a visit. I invited a few who wouldn't come to the house, too. Why wouldnt they come to your house?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 8, 2014 19:28:09 GMT -5
One of the justifications I have heard is that it's evidence that God will provide for them. I know of quite a number of workers who were satisfied that God's provision was a haystack in some farmer's hayfield for a night or two. I don't really see the same faith in the workers who call and tell you they are coming to stay for a week. I recall now that when I was going to meetings I would make a point of inviting new workers in the area to come and visit before they had the opportunity to "tell me" that they were coming for a visit. I invited a few who wouldn't come to the house, too. Why wouldnt they come to your house? One of them told me that my wife and I had a perverted private relationship.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 8, 2014 19:32:17 GMT -5
Why wouldnt they come to your house? One of them told me that my wife and I had a perverted private relationship. Gezze, How did they know?
Had someone been peeking through a key-hole into your bedroom?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 8, 2014 21:38:02 GMT -5
One of them told me that my wife and I had a perverted private relationship. Gezze, How did they know?
Had someone been peeking through a key-hole into your bedroom?No. I told her what we did. Actually, she was asking all the friends to shun a young man in our meeting, and telling all the elders in the area to call the police if he attempted to go to meeting at their houses. Because he was perverted scum of the earth. The other problem I had with her was that she lied about what it was he was supposed to have done. So I took her to task and said I had "done the same thing". So she told me she and her companion disapproved of our lifestyle. I subsequently had to discuss that with the overseer, who was of the impression that it was considered rape under the law. I gave him a wee lesson on what is common and perfectly normal behavior in such situations, and of course he was in no position to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. I suggested to the sister worker that my wife needed an apology for what she had insinuated about her, and I received it in writing about a year later. She had to deal with it because I addressed a CC. in a separate envelope to her companion, whom she had claimed to have discussed us with, and who knew us well.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 9, 2014 7:52:47 GMT -5
Why wouldnt they come to your house? One of them told me that my wife and I had a perverted private relationship. Farout. Thats dreadful. How are workers sex therapists? Im shocked. I never heard of workers counselling friends on that subject.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 9, 2014 16:57:55 GMT -5
One of them told me that my wife and I had a perverted private relationship. Farout. Thats dreadful. How are workers sex therapists? Im shocked. I never heard of workers counselling friends on that subject. The ones that won't discuss it may just be more of a problem than the one who will, sometimes.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 9, 2014 21:21:41 GMT -5
Farout. Thats dreadful. How are workers sex therapists? Im shocked. I never heard of workers counselling friends on that subject. The ones that won't discuss it may just be more of a problem than the one who will, sometimes. My brother is the only person I know who had the courage to blatantly ask male workers how they can type tolerate a celibate life. Much to my parents horror. At convention as a teen the topic was mini skirts, tight pants.short hair.bikinis I remember at Masterton conv having a bikini tan and mum telling me not to let anyone see it. I wasnt allowed a bikini but that didnt stop me wearing my cousins. We were in a communal tent
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 9, 2014 22:08:11 GMT -5
The ones that won't discuss it may just be more of a problem than the one who will, sometimes. My brother is the only person I know who had the courage to blatantly ask male workers how they can type tolerate a celibate life. Much to my parents horror. At convention as a teen the topic was mini skirts, tight pants.short hair.bikinis I remember at Masterton conv having a bikini tan and mum telling me not to let anyone see it. I wasnt allowed a bikini but that didnt stop me wearing my cousins. We were in a communal tent How about exposing your tattoos?
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