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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 10:47:31 GMT -5
I had intended to remind you, CD, that even BEFORE Jesus was born, the angel of God told Mary that that "thing that was to be born of her was "holy".......now "holy" is perhaps humans' thought of word to redefine "divine" for both speak to that which is of heaven not that which is of the earth. Now this verse is in the first chapter of Luke's gospel...I don't remember which verse but about halfway through the chapter, perhaps......also it is written in one of the epistles that Jesus as God's Son was "made lower then the angels"....also the verse I mentioned to honestabe. in that to Timothy I believe it is, Paul wrote about Jesus Christ as "God made manifest in the flesh"......so if that isn't actually inferring Jesus is God in the flesh, then we're all wrong to count on Jesus' death on the cross to be sufficient to pay our debt of sins.......then all hope is vain......Paul wrote that if we do not believe in Jesus Christ being the sufficient sacrifice for our sins, then we all are headed to nothing more then dust and ashes....we have NO souls that are saved or being reclaimed by the "creator".....even the Creator reclaims the "souls" that are the living breath within the animals, birds, etc....all those bodies of different species that require breathing to maintain life.....Gen. 2 declares to us that when the breath of life enters into these bodies at birth that they become "living souls"...no difference in that class whether human, animal, bird or fish....etc. Also to consider Jesus "no different then any other person" is cheating one's self of many things and that would cheat us of the great joy that Jesus will bring to us on eternity's day.....and I can tell you that it is an inexplicable joy...and Dan Piper who wrote "90 Minutes in Heaven" said himself...that it is an "inexplicable" joy....a joy that no mankind on earth can know....... This inability to put the real meaning to many of the scriptures of both the OT and the NT in regards to the Divinity of our Lord and Saviour is perhaps the most crippling thing I know of within the 2x2's....the preaching of years of we have to bend over backwards in things we do to warrant salvation does this to us....there is NOTHING man can do that would hold God in debt to us....for our best actions are nothing more then filthy rags when compared to the righteousness that is our's when we have faith in Jesus Christ and assigning to him the Deity that is his...as he IS the heir apparent. Again...think of "God" as being a "last identifying" name for the king, queen and their children, the firstborn usually being their heir apparent...they all have a "royal" family name such as the "Windsor" family name has been noted to have nothing but "royals" born to that name....... Also NO man can redeem his brother..... so if you think of Jesus as being "no different" then any other person, then you are cheating yourself of redemption all the way around for the bible is specific in that "NO man can redeem his brother"....so who in the name of all that lives and breathes can redeem us? It has to be the great "creator" himself...for did he not make us as we're made? Only he can really "understand" why we are as we are and needful of being saved from a lost eternity....and he was willing for that before the world ever became....that was why God the Father gave all unto His Son before the world ever became and God the Father will not claim it His UNTIL the Son has become the overcomer of all enemies and then the Son in turn gives them to the Father and he, himself, is always subject unto the Father....... I'm not promoting any view of Jesus one way or the other STR. I am just presenting lots of biblical evidence that is in direct contradiction to your view of the ideas which were developed on ideas outside of the direct record of Jesus himself. As far as one man being unable to redeem his brother, I am interested in where you ever got that idea. One man redeeming another is an ancient concept and practice which even exists today. In fact, in the ancient Jewish religion, animals and birds were used as part of the process to redeem man from sin. CD, I got "that idea" from the bible as I told you....you're apparently just skimming over what is written just enough to answer adversely without really catching the truth of the matter......I'm sorry you've lost confidence in what the bible says but reading all the personal opinions about religious actions or beliefs in certain groups of people doesn't usually back up what the bible says......like personal experience of reading the scriptures and knowing what it says......I know that the 2x2's are bad about NOT catching key phrases and verses that perhaps sum up what the whole thought was for we've been trained by workers and others to read the bible and interpret in an "allegorical" way....which says the scripture "is like" when the scripture perhaps is what something else "is like".....taking what is written with that thought of seasonal salt that brings the scriptures to us with seasoning and reasoning correctly and not in an allegorical way....I understand since the allegorical thoughts have been the teachings of the 2x2's and that is the way the "best workers" preach that makes what we happen to read in such words that you've looked to for your reasonings about the bible....God's Word IS His Son, and the only way to get the real meaning of most of the scriptures is to "read Jesus into all of it".....one old worker of years ago told me to do just that and this was when I had complained to him about our OT Wed. nite studies, that they meant little to me or I couldn't get a drop of bread out of them...."Sharon, try reading Jesus into the scriptures. Then they will open their usefulness to you." I tried it, hard to do at first...but it finally worked some of the time anyway....but HERE"S where I got "THAT IDEA" that no man can redeem his brother........I didn't just hatch it out of nothing...I read it in the bible and you can check it for yourself. Psa 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 11:01:49 GMT -5
If Jesus considered himself "no different then any other person" why did he allow Nathaniel or Thomas or any of those who fell before and worshipped him? There were several incidences of such a thing happening and Jesus never told them that he was just a man and get up off the ground before you get you clothing dirty....I'm one just like you.... Now we have to be careful for there was an angel that someone fell before to worship them or do obeyience and the angel told the man to get up for he was like he was, the same as...... I don't think that worshipping Jesus makes him "no different then any other person".....it would be sacrilege, IMO! Or maybe his popularity was starting to go to his head like any other person who is thought to be 'more special'. That is another possibility. If Jesus was God then why did he tell his apostles that everything he could do, they could do too? And, he added, much more? Does this mean he felt that some one else might be able to attain an even higher understanding of who humanity was? ce The Apostles DID receive "FROM JESUS" the powers to heal, to rid of demons.....but in no way did he give them the earthly powers to "forgive sins" for AFTER Jesus was crucified, all it took from the Apostles at that time, was to tell the gospel of Jesus Christ that love led Jesus to Calvary and Jesus died for mankinds sins and whosoever believeth on Jesus, should never perish but have everlasting life. THIS power of the gospel was in the spreading of the gospel story not inb doing all this healing etc. This was a great burden to Jesus...in one chapter he'd been bombarded with people bringing people to be healed to him way up into the evening I think and he finally escaped from them and went up into the mountain to pray....His Apostles found him and told him the people were still coming and wanting him to heal them in the city where he had healed many...but Jesus told his Apostles that it was time to go to another place for he came to preach the kingdom of heaven and the good news of his being there, the salvation story that he had not come to the earth or into his ministry to be healing the natural body, but we can get the understanding that he was singularly concerned that his own race of people were given every chance to accept that the Messiah HAD COME and that they would not lose that which God had intended for his chosen people all along....but as it tells us in Malachi that God told the children of Israel that He WOULD give salvation unto the Gentile nations simply because the children of Israel were disobedient and careless in their absence of love for God.....God tried to prove them time and time again that they loved the Lord God with all their hearts, minds, souls and strengths....they failed the tests several times and God gave the right of salvation to the Gentile nations to make the children of Israel "jealous" and wake them up to what they'd caused themselves....... Now back to worshipping Jesus...Hebs. chapter one speaks entirely about Jesus as the Son of God and God the Father's opinion of His only begotten Son....a verse in that chapter stood out to me in this regard. Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. This verse is referenced back to Duetoronomy where it speaks about letting the nations rejoice over him who the Father has brought and the previous verses in that chapter speak to what Jesus would do...like healing the lame, releasing the captive(which I now read in accordance to what Jesus did while in the tomb) he went down into the depths of hell or the grave where men before his time were bound because they had had NO savior and he preached the gospel of salvation to them....those people who looked for the day of the Messiah but died before he came.......etc
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 11:07:31 GMT -5
Yes an angel came in a dream. There were other so called god men that had a virgin for a mother that had an angel come to them in a dream too. What do you make of those claims. There are quite a few claims like this and before Jesus was born to Mary. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Mormons Maroni (sp) angel gave them golden tablets and special glasses to read= the book of Mormons... Satan and his demonic army have their own agenda which is to cause confusion and Chaos... between truth and false, Light and Darkness... making believers to become atheists... They are Here to MESS up and to confuse our minds to doubt about the existence of God.
thanks for helping me out here, Nathan! Also I remembered that Jesus himself warned his disciples that there would come a time when it would be declared that Christ was here, or Christ was there....etc....but Jesus said "Don't believe them." I think that people who do not understand what it really means that Jesus IS THE SON OF GOD and is God's Christ are those who are easily led to those who say he is here or he is there.....a weak link of faith will not be strong enough to prevent being impressed by those who "look" or "speak" about Jesus as he is here or he is there from taking them down a more troublesome road....we cheat ourselves in not paying heed to the Word of God who IS HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 11:10:16 GMT -5
Wait! one second here, snow and Nathan, please! Snow is speaking of "hollow" as in a vacancy of matter and Nathan is speaking about "Hallow" as in the prayer "Our Father which are in heaven, "hallowed" be thy name...." perhaps meaning HOLY or Special.....etc
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 12, 2013 14:02:45 GMT -5
Its pretty hot down there. Do these reptilians live in Hell? Fixit Are you in Florida? ken
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 14:02:58 GMT -5
Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Mormons Maroni (sp) angel gave them golden tablets and special glasses to read= the book of Mormons... Satan and his demonic army have their own agenda which is to cause confusion and Chaos... between truth and false, Light and Darkness... making believers to become atheists... They are Here to MESS up and to confuse our minds to doubt about the existence of God.
thanks for helping me out here, Nathan! Also I remembered that Jesus himself warned his disciples that there would come a time when it would be declared that Christ was here, or Christ was there....etc....but Jesus said "Don't believe them." I think that people who do not understand what it really means that Jesus IS THE SON OF GOD and is God's Christ are those who are easily led to those who say he is here or he is there.....a weak link of faith will not be strong enough to prevent being impressed by those who "look" or "speak" about Jesus as he is here or he is there from taking them down a more troublesome road....we cheat ourselves in not paying heed to the Word of God who IS HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Was it Jesus who said 'don't believe them'? Or was it those who wanted to make sure the pagans got hushed up about how the Christians were stealing their myth and making it literal? That is what happened in the 'beginning' of Christianity. The pagans knew the story of their man gods and they couldn't figure out why Jesus was being portrayed in the same way, but instead of mythological, actually literal. I don't care one way or the other what people believe, but they should know that this is what actually happened when the immaculate conception and other other attributes where given to Jesus birth and dying and then rising again. First you have to convince people they are sinners and then you can offer the solution.
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 14:06:00 GMT -5
Wait! one second here, snow and Nathan, please! Snow is speaking of "hollow" as in a vacancy of matter and Nathan is speaking about "Hallow" as in the prayer "Our Father which are in heaven, "hallowed" be thy name...." perhaps meaning HOLY or Special.....etc I'm not sure about that STR. Above he uses both Hallow and Hollow. My understanding is that the earth is hollow, that they have discovered a portal to access it. It's hard to understand why anyone would believe in a hollow earth and then watch a volcano spewing it's under pressure lava that comes from within the earth.
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 14:13:01 GMT -5
Wait! one second here, snow and Nathan, please! Snow is speaking of "hollow" as in a vacancy of matter and Nathan is speaking about "Hallow" as in the prayer "Our Father which are in heaven, "hallowed" be thy name...." perhaps meaning HOLY or Special.....etc Snow and I were talking about the Hallow earth a HOLE in the inner earth, where Satan/Reptilians race live for millions of years. Satan came out of the hallow earth and appeared in the Garden of Eden in a Physical form/Reptilian.5) US Navy warships Admiral Byrd exploration of the Hallow earth in 1920-1947 ordered by President of USA www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNl_PHJLUj06) The film explores the historical mysteries and rumors of a Nazi secret base in Antarctica/Hallow earth, the 1947 flying saucer attack on Admiral Byrd's ill-fated 'Operation Highjump' expedition and the occult origins of Third Reich anti-gravity engines, flying discs and ancient Atlantean technologies viewed through the lens of perhaps the three most mysterious twentieth century German organizations of all: the 'Thule Society, 'Vril Society' and the 'Ahnenerbe' www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUpPwyyvLwNathan there have always been cave systems. The Carlsbad Caverns is one such network. They go for miles and are very spectacular, but they are not that far down and do not mean we have a 'hollow' earth. There are people out there that like to circulate lots of stuff and claims, but they aren't true.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 12, 2013 14:38:00 GMT -5
Snow and I were talking about the Hallow earth a HOLE in the inner earth, where Satan/Reptilians race live for millions of years. Satan came out of the hallow earth and appeared in the Garden of Eden in a Physical form/Reptilian.5) US Navy warships Admiral Byrd exploration of the Hallow earth in 1920-1947 ordered by President of USA www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNl_PHJLUj06) The film explores the historical mysteries and rumors of a Nazi secret base in Antarctica/Hallow earth, the 1947 flying saucer attack on Admiral Byrd's ill-fated 'Operation Highjump' expedition and the occult origins of Third Reich anti-gravity engines, flying discs and ancient Atlantean technologies viewed through the lens of perhaps the three most mysterious twentieth century German organizations of all: the 'Thule Society, 'Vril Society' and the 'Ahnenerbe' www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUpPwyyvLwNathan there have always been cave systems. The Carlsbad Caverns is one such network. They go for miles and are very spectacular, but they are not that far down and do not mean we have a 'hollow' earth. There are people out there that like to circulate lots of stuff and claims, but they aren't true. Nathan, is there ANY paranormal ideas that you don't believe!
For instance, do you believe that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? If so which end, the right or left? Is it just setting on the ground or do you have to dig into the ground? If so, how far do you have to dig? Perhaps down to where the "hollow earth" part to the earth begins?
How do you find just exactly where is the ends of the rainbow?
After you provides those answers, maybe we can start discussing the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the elves helping the shoemaker etc.
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 15:47:01 GMT -5
Nathan there have always been cave systems. The Carlsbad Caverns is one such network. They go for miles and are very spectacular, but they are not that far down and do not mean we have a 'hollow' earth. There are people out there that like to circulate lots of stuff and claims, but they aren't true. Nathan, is there ANY paranormal ideas that you don't believe!
For instance, do you believe that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? If so which end, the right or left? Is it just setting on the ground or do you have to dig into the ground? If so, how far do you have to dig? Perhaps down to where the "hollow earth" part to the earth begins?
How do you find just exactly where is the ends of the rainbow?
After you provides those answers, maybe we can start discussing the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the elves helping the shoemaker etc.
I don't care about the others, but It would be real helpful to find the pot of gold....
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 16:05:42 GMT -5
Nathan, do you believe what David Icke and Michael Tsarian say too? They talk about reptilians and the elite of the world being reptilian. Doesn't it make you wonder and question their stuff?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 16:13:01 GMT -5
Wait! one second here, snow and Nathan, please! Snow is speaking of "hollow" as in a vacancy of matter and Nathan is speaking about "Hallow" as in the prayer "Our Father which are in heaven, "hallowed" be thy name...." perhaps meaning HOLY or Special.....etc I'm not sure about that STR. Above he uses both Hallow and Hollow. My understanding is that the earth is hollow, that they have discovered a portal to access it. It's hard to understand why anyone would believe in a hollow earth and then watch a volcano spewing it's under pressure lava that comes from within the earth. I agree about the word being "hollow"....seems there is a misspelling of hollow to hallow....hallow is not indicative of a hole of nothing.....and yes, there are many "plates" of the earth and this is what is constantly moving and seems gravity and gases, etc keep them moving so that in order the earth doesn't go "big bang" again, I suppose....but in the meantime we do see such awful devastations by volcanoes and earthquakes....but if those didn't happen, would the earth just get into such pressure it would pop and then nothing but smoke?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 16:22:17 GMT -5
Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Mormons Maroni (sp) angel gave them golden tablets and special glasses to read= the book of Mormons... Satan and his demonic army have their own agenda which is to cause confusion and Chaos... between truth and false, Light and Darkness... making believers to become atheists... They are Here to MESS up and to confuse our minds to doubt about the existence of God.
Nathan, how can you explain that these religions that had the dying rising god man were much older than Christianity? It does appear that Christianity has borrowed a few things from older religions. Snow, you can believe all these "older" religions and superstitions if you please over the bible...HOWEVER, the wisest man ever known in biblical and preceding days did declare that "there are NO new things under the sun." What previous man has seen/learned, so will the next generation though admittedly under different auspices, experiences,...but still there are NO new things under the sun. This is just life on the earth and simply because God has made one generation much the same as the next or the generation before.......they will relate their new experiences with what their parents/grandparents saw/did.......so I cannot get so moved about the similiarity between the bible and stories of older religions/people.......I realize that it has been a desire of mankind all throughout the years of mankind that there would be a man unto eternal salvation....well, since mankind only understands mankind or mankind's flesh, it stands to reason that there would come someone in a recognizable human form that would be their savior. Yet though it actually seems "different" in the new generations, it still is NOTHING new under the sun. It's all man's imagination or way of telling the story or th truth of their life.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 12, 2013 16:30:58 GMT -5
Hadn't ever been at that site before. That Brad guy sure sounds angry. It's nice that the "exes" here are a little more level-headed for the most part, pointing out flaws in the F&W without completely flying off the handle. You can say a lot of things about the F&W, but "they don't believe in God" or in the cleansing power of Jesus. Hmm. Where did you get that from. Absolutely not true.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 12, 2013 16:32:49 GMT -5
Well if you believe in an actual garden of Eden and the conversation above actually took place, then you live in a different world from me. My world started much longer ago and slowly evolved to what we see today. It also doesn't have a talking snake called Satan and man never had original sin. You do know there were several such creation stories that were quite similar to the one you're talking about? The Hebrews just decided on that one and changed it around a little to put their stamp on it. Yahweh was the Hebrew God of War before he became their primary focus of worship. If it doesn't matter to you that Christianity is a copycat religion with a lot of pagan roots, then I guess you need to stick to believing the earth is 6000 years old and it all started in the Garden of Eden between a talking snake and a woman. However, my world history is quite a different one. I see the similarities that the Jesus story shares with many older religions. Well, Jesus our Savior talked about the time in the Garden of Eden in Matthew 19:19:4-6. So, Garden of Eden (Iraq) had to be real place. We know the Serpent/Reptilians have been living in the hallow earth for millions of yrs that was why, he appeared in the Garden of Eden. The hallow Earth has been the Serpent/Reptilian home for million of years AND still is. Adam and Eve race/homo sapiens have been created only 6000 yrs. There were other human races before Adam and Eve living on the earth prior to Adam and Eve for hundreds, thousands, millions of yrs ago.Revelation 12:7-9 There WAS a War/Rebellion in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon/Serpent with his/Satan angels prevail NOT; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great Dragon was cast out, that OLD Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him And his tail drew the THIRD part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the EARTH. The book of Jude 1: 6 And the angels who kept NOT their position of authority, but LEFT their own habitation, God has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.Nathan, I do not understand those verses as you tell them....it's my understanding when Michael the archangel and his band of heavenly angels who fought Satan and his rogue band of angels in heaven that it was by "the blood of the Lamb" that heaven's angels won the war....well, there was NO blood of the Lamb until Jesus was crucified.....also we read in Job that Satan still transversed heaven and earth and he was shown to be the "accuser of the brethren" in Job....and though it seems Job was the "first" written part of the bible.....it still would have been that Satan was still able to meet before the God of heaven and accuse the brethren...which he did and was tossed out of heaven AFTER the Lamb was slain....I have always thought and heard expressed that this war in heaven occurred perhaps at the end of Jesus time on the cross or when he was in the tomb......the heaven's legends of angels cleaned heaven of the accuser of the brothern.....thus there is NO ONE who accuses mankind to God any more and thus Jesus blood not only cleanses mankind on earth, his blood cleanses the believers' reputation in heaven...no ill word ever rises before the Father from the lips of Satan any more....though sometimes the Father is aware of some awful noises and caring-ons on earth, He listens to Jesus' take on what's happening and what Jesus thinks about it....the Intercessor doesn't accuse any one these days, but he is like the gardener he begs the Father for more time for different ones so that they may be tilled and cleanses, made fruitful in the borrowed time.......and I believe some of us are granted "borrowed" time....just like Hezakiah, eh?
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 16:35:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure about that STR. Above he uses both Hallow and Hollow. My understanding is that the earth is hollow, that they have discovered a portal to access it. It's hard to understand why anyone would believe in a hollow earth and then watch a volcano spewing it's under pressure lava that comes from within the earth. I agree about the word being "hollow"....seems there is a misspelling of hollow to hallow....hallow is not indicative of a hole of nothing.....and yes, there are many "plates" of the earth and this is what is constantly moving and seems gravity and gases, etc keep them moving so that in order the earth doesn't go "big bang" again, I suppose....but in the meantime we do see such awful devastations by volcanoes and earthquakes....but if those didn't happen, would the earth just get into such pressure it would pop and then nothing but smoke? I think the earth letting off 'steam' every now and then is likely a good thing.
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 16:37:42 GMT -5
Nathan, how can you explain that these religions that had the dying rising god man were much older than Christianity? It does appear that Christianity has borrowed a few things from older religions. Snow, you can believe all these "older" religions and superstitions if you please over the bible...HOWEVER, the wisest man ever known in biblical and preceding days did declare that "there are NO new things under the sun." What previous man has seen/learned, so will the next generation though admittedly under different auspices, experiences,...but still there are NO new things under the sun. This is just life on the earth and simply because God has made one generation much the same as the next or the generation before.......they will relate their new experiences with what their parents/grandparents saw/did.......so I cannot get so moved about the similiarity between the bible and stories of older religions/people.......I realize that it has been a desire of mankind all throughout the years of mankind that there would be a man unto eternal salvation....well, since mankind only understands mankind or mankind's flesh, it stands to reason that there would come someone in a recognizable human form that would be their savior. Yet though it actually seems "different" in the new generations, it still is NOTHING new under the sun. It's all man's imagination or way of telling the story or th truth of their life. It does seem to be a predominant human trait. I don't believe any of the older religions ever believed their stories to be literally true, but rather an archetypal myth.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 12, 2013 19:11:11 GMT -5
CD You wrote As I have mentioned Ken, I have no problem with your theology for you, but what got me started on this was your suggestion that if someone doesn't believe your theology, they are in danger, and that God will say "I never knew you." That's what got me panicking! Statements like that are wrong on many levels, and indicate a fear-based religion.
CD There are those who recognized Jesus for what he was and there are many prophetic passages that indicate who he was,is and is to come in the language of revelation even Chapter 1. There are words not mine and which would alert a believer what the unbeliever will face. There is light and there is darkness. We who believe that Jesus was fully revealed as God in the revelation and who are obeying the commands have no worry. Fellowship with those who perhaps don't believe in His diety is not encouraged by the scriptures. The workers besides many troubling beliefs do not endorse Jesus as God even though the earliest workers seem to accept that.Why? For those who do not believe this there are serious ramifications. Those who propagate these contrary beliefs could keep folks from their reward.We could suggest who is behind denying that Jesus is God.He loves to decieve and creates lots of confusion and yes even fear as you suggest CD. We have this life to get it straight I will submit that Gods spirit ISA 11:2 says He delights in those that fear the lord. So yes it is serious and I pray that who ever questions whether they have it right would investigate themselves and not just go along because of what someone or worker has said. God wants us to seek TRUTH and Pursue it.I believe Nathan and STR as well as others have known it is a serious question that we shouldn't treat lightly JMT ken
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 21:21:02 GMT -5
If you have God, why do you need Jesus? Isn't God sufficient to do all the things you claim Jesus needs to do? Why does Jesus need to be a God too? I don't see how that is any different than polytheism. Not that I have a problem with polytheism, but isn't Christianity about having only one God? Not Three?
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Post by snow on Oct 12, 2013 21:44:48 GMT -5
If you have God, why do you need Jesus? Isn't God sufficient to do all the things you claim Jesus needs to do? Why does Jesus need to be a God too? I don't see how that is any different than polytheism. Not that I have a problem with polytheism, but isn't Christianity about having only one God? Not Three? Without Jesus Christ the Messiah life as a God/man then there wouldn't be any forgiveness of sin therefore no HOPE of Salvation for humanity. Only God, the precious Lamb of God shed blood on Calvary's Cross to pay the ransom priced for humanity sins. The shed blood had be God himself! The Father would NOT accept any other who is NOT God. It Was God became, who became flesh man so his own precious blood shed or taken our place/death as guilty sinners.
The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. God is ONE in nature, spirit, and mind... Three Divine beings made up ONE God. ONLY God the Son/Jesus became a man/died as a sacrificial Lamb of God for our sins. It took God/Man blood of Jesus to pay for the ransom priced was asked by the Father in heaven. The ONLY way for redemption of humanity, God/the Son HAD to die and shed His blood on the earth to SAVE humanity/sinners. Why? Isn't god the father capable of forgiveness? Also, last time I checked, 3 entities is polytheism. That has been pointed out before to those who believe in the trinity. They really don't have a good explanation for it. So it remains polytheism for anyone that doesn't buy into the trinity doctrine.
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Post by emy on Oct 12, 2013 21:59:52 GMT -5
Ahem... pardon me for breaking into yet another trinity discussion but does anyone know if the Senator is looking into the tax thing?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 22:07:35 GMT -5
Ahem... pardon me for breaking into yet another trinity discussion but does anyone know if the Senator is looking into the tax thing? It would be a good thing if he did. It would settle the noise about worker tax fraud. However, I am sure Senator Grassley has a decent understanding of the tax code, or at least can easily find someone who does, and it won't go any further. The government is only interested in situations where they can increase the tax take, not where they will decrease the tax take.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 13, 2013 5:39:48 GMT -5
If you have God, why do you need Jesus? Isn't God sufficient to do all the things you claim Jesus needs to do? Why does Jesus need to be a God too? I don't see how that is any different than polytheism. Not that I have a problem with polytheism, but isn't Christianity about having only one God? Not Three? Snow Not 3 Gods but God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Using polytheism argument is an old argument against a 3 in one God. Trinity is a term not used in the bible nor does it seem triune but these words do describe Our God. Different and showing Himself strong on behalf of those who have welcomed the Holy Spirit to dwell within them. I love the stories of David who God dealt with despite the mistakes. David had a consciousness of God and a desire to please Him. In one of Davids psalm he pleaded with God not to take His Holy Spirit from him. For us who are still in the land of the living we need that type of attitude. God desires to have fellowship with us and does when our thoughts and intentions are pure even as we bumble our way through life. JMT ken
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Post by quizzer on Oct 13, 2013 6:35:10 GMT -5
Its pretty hot down there. Do these reptilians live in Hell? Fixit Are you in Florida? ken Don't worry, ken. The iguanas are NOT alien reptilians.
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Post by quizzer on Oct 13, 2013 6:40:16 GMT -5
Ahem... pardon me for breaking into yet another trinity discussion but does anyone know if the Senator is looking into the tax thing? It would be a good thing if he did. It would settle the noise about worker tax fraud. However, I am sure Senator Grassley has a decent understanding of the tax code, or at least can easily find someone who does, and it won't go any further. The government is only interested in situations where they can increase the tax take, not where they will decrease the tax take. It's possible that, should the 2x2s keep the workers' money aboveboard by listing all the monies and expenses for the year (travel, medical, convention ground upkeep), that the government could collect less tax money than before. Right now, tax is paid without listing an organization or expenses.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 8:44:00 GMT -5
It would be a good thing if he did. It would settle the noise about worker tax fraud. However, I am sure Senator Grassley has a decent understanding of the tax code, or at least can easily find someone who does, and it won't go any further. The government is only interested in situations where they can increase the tax take, not where they will decrease the tax take. It's possible that, should the 2x2s keep the workers' money aboveboard by listing all the monies and expenses for the year (travel, medical, convention ground upkeep), that the government could collect less tax money than before. Right now, tax is paid without listing an organization or expenses. I would say that almost certainly if 2x2ism re-organized to the standard church model for tax purposes, the government tax take would be notably lower. So that's not a great project for Senator Grassley to take on unless he wants the reputation of helping out 2x2ism and other "particularly dangerous cults". For Mr. Lewis, if successful, his actions will result in significantly more money being made available to finance 2x2ism. The reasoning is based on simple tax math and human behaviour, but guaranteed, the workers will have more money available than ever and the prospects for new young workers entering might look better too. Somehow, this doesn't seem to be what Mr. Lewis is attempting to achieve, but he is working overtime to get there!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 8:51:57 GMT -5
CD You wrote As I have mentioned Ken, I have no problem with your theology for you, but what got me started on this was your suggestion that if someone doesn't believe your theology, they are in danger, and that God will say "I never knew you." That's what got me panicking! Statements like that are wrong on many levels, and indicate a fear-based religion. CD There are those who recognized Jesus for what he was and there are many prophetic passages that indicate who he was,is and is to come in the language of revelation even Chapter 1. There are words not mine and which would alert a believer what the unbeliever will face. There is light and there is darkness. We who believe that Jesus was fully revealed as God in the revelation and who are obeying the commands have no worry. Fellowship with those who perhaps don't believe in His diety is not encouraged by the scriptures. The workers besides many troubling beliefs do not endorse Jesus as God even though the earliest workers seem to accept that.Why? For those who do not believe this there are serious ramifications. Those who propagate these contrary beliefs could keep folks from their reward.We could suggest who is behind denying that Jesus is God.He loves to decieve and creates lots of confusion and yes even fear as you suggest CD. We have this life to get it straight I will submit that Gods spirit ISA 11:2 says He delights in those that fear the lord. So yes it is serious and I pray that who ever questions whether they have it right would investigate themselves and not just go along because of what someone or worker has said. God wants us to seek TRUTH and Pursue it.I believe Nathan and STR as well as others have known it is a serious question that we shouldn't treat lightly JMT ken Regarding religion Ken, this is what we need to get right: 27 Pure religion and undefiled is this: To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.To focus on a theology arising from the imagination of the politicians who dreamed it up has little value and little comfort as indicated by the defenders of such theories. What you are hanging your hope on is at best a tenuous theory which produces no life, either now or later. Why not invest in something that is real and living such as indicated in the verse above that I quoted? Matt 25 is the perfect indicator that God will know you if you do those things......it won't be based on a theological construction of man.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 9:53:34 GMT -5
CD You wrote As I have mentioned Ken, I have no problem with your theology for you, but what got me started on this was your suggestion that if someone doesn't believe your theology, they are in danger, and that God will say "I never knew you." That's what got me panicking! Statements like that are wrong on many levels, and indicate a fear-based religion. CD There are those who recognized Jesus for what he was and there are many prophetic passages that indicate who he was,is and is to come in the language of revelation even Chapter 1. There are words not mine and which would alert a believer what the unbeliever will face. There is light and there is darkness. We who believe that Jesus was fully revealed as God in the revelation and who are obeying the commands have no worry. Fellowship with those who perhaps don't believe in His diety is not encouraged by the scriptures. The workers besides many troubling beliefs do not endorse Jesus as God even though the earliest workers seem to accept that.Why? For those who do not believe this there are serious ramifications. Those who propagate these contrary beliefs could keep folks from their reward.We could suggest who is behind denying that Jesus is God.He loves to decieve and creates lots of confusion and yes even fear as you suggest CD. We have this life to get it straight I will submit that Gods spirit ISA 11:2 says He delights in those that fear the lord. So yes it is serious and I pray that who ever questions whether they have it right would investigate themselves and not just go along because of what someone or worker has said. God wants us to seek TRUTH and Pursue it.I believe Nathan and STR as well as others have known it is a serious question that we shouldn't treat lightly JMT ken Regarding religion Ken, this is what we need to get right: 27 Pure religion and undefiled is this: To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.To focus on a theology arising from the imagination of the politicians who dreamed it up has little value and little comfort as indicated by the defenders of such theories. What you are hanging your hope on is at best a tenuous theory which produces no life, either now or later. Why not invest in something that is real and living such as indicated in the verse above that I quoted? Matt 25 is the perfect indicator that God will know you if you do those things......it won't be based on a theological construction of man. Ironically, two Sundays ago we heard from one of our most venerable system believers that we did not have to worry about the fatherless and widows but we did need to keep ourselves unspotted from the world. And our workers have told us not to get involved in soup kitchens and other charitable activities...I don't think our group is comfortable with anything but the 'unspotted' part of this verse for the most part.
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