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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 14:53:07 GMT -5
Nugent is from Dublin and is speaking about Eire or the Republic of Ireland., or what some may call Southern Ireland. Northern Ireland which is still prt of the UK is still as immature as ever. You can have a town of 500 people and it will have two schools, a Protestant one and a Cathoilic one, eevn though one school would be sufficient for the needs of the town. Eire has made great progress towards seperating state from church. Not so Norther Ireland. It looks like the north could learn from the south. I did a plane change at the Shannon Airport, so I've been only to the airport. Some day I would like to visit there. Lots of people in the USA have their roots in Ireland. I noticed Ireland is the 14th richest country in the world.
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 16:19:32 GMT -5
Suicide Pod Has Been Approved For Use In SwitzerlandSeems like a good idea to me. Too many people needlessly suffer because of religious suppressions about their end of life. Some religious people like for people to suffer when they die. I find this idea to be a deplorable worldview. "Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you.” - Saint Teresa of Calcutta
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 16:37:57 GMT -5
Suicide Pod Has Been Approved For Use In SwitzerlandSeems like a good idea to me. Too many people needlessly suffer because of religious suppressions about their end of life. Some religious people like for people to suffer when they die. I find this idea to be a deplorable worldview. "Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you.” - Saint Teresa of Calcutta Suicide or self-murder is never the answer...
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 16:51:43 GMT -5
Suicide Pod Has Been Approved For Use In SwitzerlandSeems like a good idea to me. Too many people needlessly suffer because of religious suppressions about their end of life. Some religious people like for people to suffer when they die. I find this idea to be a deplorable worldview. "Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you.” - Saint Teresa of Calcutta Suicide or self-murder is never the answer... Why not?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 17:00:09 GMT -5
Suicide or self-murder is never the answer... Why not? It has consequences you don't have time to repent for...
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 17:21:58 GMT -5
It has consequences you don't have time to repent for... Lots of people try on their own to commit suicide now by using drugs or shooting themselves. Unfortunately not all of them are completely successful. This device seems like a much better solution. Not all who commit suicide or try have an end stage condition and but just need mental counseling, but for many others it's the most humane thing to do. We often do this for our pets but make many needlessly suffer until the very end. Some states have laws on the books making suicide illegal, but what are they going to do if you are dead? I see: "Oregon's Death with Dignity Act allows terminally ill Oregon residents to obtain and use prescriptions from their physicians for self-administered, lethal medications." I don't recall any bible verse that expressly prohibits suicide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 17:36:03 GMT -5
It has consequences you don't have time to repent for... Lots of people try on their own to commit suicide now by using drugs or shooting themselves. Unfortunately not all of them are completely successful. This device seems like a much better solution. Not all who commit suicide or try have an end stage condition and but just need mental counseling, but for many others it's the most humane thing to do. We often do this for our pets but make many needlessly suffer until the very end. Some states have laws on the books making suicide illegal, but what are they going to do if you are dead? I see: "Oregon's Death with Dignity Act allows terminally ill Oregon residents to obtain and use prescriptions from their physicians for self-administered, lethal medications." I don't recall any bible verse that expressly prohibits suicide. By making it illegal you can go after anyone that might have assisted them with their suicide. Suicide in the bible generally followed an evil deed or sin that had occurred. 7 instances with only Samson's not frowned upon. And again its describe a lot of the time as self-murder and we all know murder is a sin right?
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 17:51:20 GMT -5
By making it illegal you can go after anyone that might have assisted them with their suicide. True. I once knew a guy who always talked about killing himself. A very long time ago I told him come over to my house and I will show you where to point the gun as I have killed and butchered a lot of animals and I know the best places to point. After that he stopped talking to me about wanting to kill himself. That wasn't the best way to respond, and I wouldn't take that tack now, but it just showed me he was just looking for attention and had no real intention to kill himself. Suicide in the bible generally followed an evil deed or sin that had occurred. 7 instances with only Samson's not frowned upon.
And again its describe a lot of the time as self-murder and we all know murder is a sin right? Depending what you believe about the nature of Jesus; If Jesus was in heaven before he came to earth, Jesus committed suicide, and his father was guilty of assisted suicide.
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 18:01:44 GMT -5
I have never been so sick that I considered suicide myself, but I know professing people who had terminal cancer, were sent home to die and cried out for someone to shoot them and put them out of their misery. In these cases assisted suicide would have been the right thing to do.
I can't imagine how cruel a god could be to send them to hell for choosing to end such suffering, after a lifetime of professing and being an elder.
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Post by verna on Dec 8, 2021 18:04:53 GMT -5
By making it illegal you can go after anyone that might have assisted them with their suicide. True. I once knew a guy who always talked about killing himself. A very long time ago I told him come over to my house and I will show you where to point the gun as I have killed and butchered a lot of animals and I know the best places to point. After that he stopped talking to me about wanting to kill himself. That wasn't the best way to respond, and I wouldn't take that tack now, but it just showed me he was just looking for attention and had no real intention to kill himself. Suicide in the bible generally followed an evil deed or sin that had occurred. 7 instances with only Samson's not frowned upon.
And again its describe a lot of the time as self-murder and we all know murder is a sin right? Depending what you believe about the nature of Jesus; If Jesus was in heaven before he came to earth, Jesus committed suicide, and his father was guilty of assisted suicide. Thoughts of suicide have been with me for much of my life. I appreciate a few friends who I can talk to about this. To be fair I follow this up by telling them that I do not intend to act on it. For me it is not so much looking for attention, it just is difficult to be alone with these obsessive thoughts. I really envy people who do not have these thoughts but it is part of my journey so so be it.
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 18:43:35 GMT -5
Thoughts of suicide have been with me for much of my life. I appreciate a few friends who I can talk to about this. To be fair I follow this up by telling them that I do not intend to act on it. For me it is not so much looking for attention, it just is difficult to be alone with these obsessive thoughts. I really envy people who do not have these thoughts but it is part of my journey so so be it. Sorry for your suffering. I don't have any training in this area, but would be happy to lend an ear. PM me and I'll give you my phone number. I had a good friend who committed suicide. No one knew what he was going thru. I often wondered if he had reached out for help, would he still be alive? BTW: I'm still mad at him for not letting me know and that has been 10 years ago. I read that many who attempt suicide report that they wished they had not tried. I wonder if there is a connection with large brains and the act of suicide as; whales, dolphins, some primates and even dogs will stop eating and die soon after their master dies. I don't know where you live but there are help lines and online support groups which my be helpful. In the USA the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 800-273-8255 open 24/7.
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Post by verna on Dec 8, 2021 19:08:46 GMT -5
Thoughts of suicide have been with me for much of my life. I appreciate a few friends who I can talk to about this. To be fair I follow this up by telling them that I do not intend to act on it. For me it is not so much looking for attention, it just is difficult to be alone with these obsessive thoughts. I really envy people who do not have these thoughts but it is part of my journey so so be it. Sorry for your suffering. I don't have any training in this area, but would be happy to lend an ear. PM me and I'll give you my phone number. I had a good friend who committed suicide. No one knew what he was going thru. I often wondered if he had reached out for help, would he still be alive? BTW: I'm still mad at him for not letting me know and that has been 10 years ago. I read that many who attempt suicide report that they wished they had not tried. I wonder if there is a connection with large brains and the act of suicide as; whales, dolphins, some primates and even dogs will stop eating and die soon after their master dies. I don't know where you live but there are help lines and online support groups which my be helpful. In the USA the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 800-273-8255 open 24/7. That is kind of you XNA. I have received lots of help through my life and am now fortunate to have a few friends who I can talk to about these things. I like to be open about it though so that people are not shocked when someone talks about it - or hints at it. I think it is very unfortunate when people take their lives very spontaneously but when I know that that person has struggled for years without relief I do not blame them. I do understand you being angry with your friend but know that he/she did not mean to hurt you. The pain was likely just to unbearable. I was thinking this morning about when I was young and life looked interminable- the fact of having to live another 60 - 70 years was horrible given that I could hardly make it through a day. Now it is better knowing that I likely only have another 20 years. ( I pray to God it is not 40!!!!) And some days are good!!!
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 19:54:19 GMT -5
I think it is very unfortunate when people take their lives very spontaneously but when I know that that person has struggled for years without relief I do not blame them. I do understand you being angry with your friend but know that he/she did not mean to hurt you. The pain was likely just to unbearable. That's great that you already have some support! Try as I may I can't change my feelings about my friends suicide, I just feel what I feel. I really wish he had let me, or someone know. I don't know if I could have helped, but he didn't give me or anyone a chance to help him. There was nothing about his observed life that would indicate he had any more than normal life problems. Married with kids in college, good job, good health, etc. He did not leave a note, so to this day no one knows his thoughts. Another acquaintance of mine did leave a suicide note this year, yet I'm not sure I fully understand where his head was. Gary was not married, young, good looking, MBA and MSc and a great job. Outside you would have said he was winning at the game of life. I did not know him very well but his death seems like a great tragedy.
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Post by verna on Dec 8, 2021 21:10:59 GMT -5
I think it is very unfortunate when people take their lives very spontaneously but when I know that that person has struggled for years without relief I do not blame them. I do understand you being angry with your friend but know that he/she did not mean to hurt you. The pain was likely just to unbearable. That's great that you already have some support! Try as I may I can't change my feelings about my friends suicide, I just feel what I feel. I really wish he had let me, or someone know. I don't know if I could have helped, but he didn't give me or anyone a chance to help him. There was nothing about his observed life that would indicate he had any more than normal life problems. Married with kids in college, good job, good health, etc. He did not leave a note, so to this day no one knows his thoughts. Another acquaintance of mine did leave a suicide note this year, yet I'm not sure I fully understand where his head was. Gary was not married, young, good looking, MBA and MSc and a great job. Outside you would have said he was winning at the game of life. I did not know him very well but his death seems like a great tragedy. Wow that is heartbreaking. He almost sounds light hearted about it but I can understand that. It might have looked tech easier than living. He said he’d been thinking about suicide for a long time so I wonder if he was like me - it was an obsession. The thoughts will not stop - I need to kill myself, should I do it this way, should I do it today and on and on.. Everyone thought I was a well adjusted fervent professing young woman but I was continually resisting suicide. Leaving the faith relieved it a lot but it continues to this day. Some days it would be easier to just end it but it’s rarely unbearable now so not worth hurting so many people. And like I said, some days are good. I’m so sorry fir your losses.
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 21:31:11 GMT -5
]Wow that is heartbreaking. He almost sounds light hearted about it but I can understand that. It might have looked tech easier than living. He said he’d been thinking about suicide for a long time so I wonder if he was like me - it was an obsession. The thoughts will not stop - I need to kill myself, should I do it this way, should I do it today and on and on.. Everyone thought I was a well adjusted fervent professing young woman but I was continually resisting suicide. Leaving the faith relieved it a lot but it continues to this day. Some days it would be easier to just end it but it’s rarely unbearable now so not worth hurting so many people. And like I said, some days are good. I’m so sorry fir your losses. A pic of Gary. Happy on the outside.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2021 22:03:39 GMT -5
That's great that you already have some support! Try as I may I can't change my feelings about my friends suicide, I just feel what I feel. I really wish he had let me, or someone know. I don't know if I could have helped, but he didn't give me or anyone a chance to help him. There was nothing about his observed life that would indicate he had any more than normal life problems. Married with kids in college, good job, good health, etc. He did not leave a note, so to this day no one knows his thoughts. Another acquaintance of mine did leave a suicide note this year, yet I'm not sure I fully understand where his head was. Gary was not married, young, good looking, MBA and MSc and a great job. Outside you would have said he was winning at the game of life. I did not know him very well but his death seems like a great tragedy. Wow that is heartbreaking. He almost sounds light hearted about it but I can understand that. It might have looked tech easier than living. He said he’d been thinking about suicide for a long time so I wonder if he was like me - it was an obsession. The thoughts will not stop - I need to kill myself, should I do it this way, should I do it today and on and on.. Everyone thought I was a well adjusted fervent professing young woman but I was continually resisting suicide. Leaving the faith relieved it a lot but it continues to this day. Some days it would be easier to just end it but it’s rarely unbearable now so not worth hurting so many people. And like I said, some days are good. I’m so sorry fir your losses. Verna, I do hope you are seeing mental health counselors. I remember well once thinking there is no use of me going to a counselor!
I thought how can they change what I am thinking?
Yet, -I realized that although the problems were very real, -it was how I was thinking about them that was making me so miserable!
It was also happened about the time a new magazine was published called Phycology Today. At that time the magazine was new & and the articles were on a very elemental level easily understood.
We also had new medications that we never had in the past.
I still take an anti-depressant.
I am not sure what would have happened had I not got help, -but I am convinced it would not have been good!
I found a completely new focus on life and finally begin to feel alive and that life was worth living! I also found a group of people who were more interested in what they could do to make a better world NOW for people rather worrying about some supposed unknown existence after death!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 22:06:32 GMT -5
By making it illegal you can go after anyone that might have assisted them with their suicide. True. I once knew a guy who always talked about killing himself. A very long time ago I told him come over to my house and I will show you where to point the gun as I have killed and butchered a lot of animals and I know the best places to point. After that he stopped talking to me about wanting to kill himself. That wasn't the best way to respond, and I wouldn't take that tack now, but it just showed me he was just looking for attention and had no real intention to kill himself. Suicide in the bible generally followed an evil deed or sin that had occurred. 7 instances with only Samson's not frowned upon.
And again its describe a lot of the time as self-murder and we all know murder is a sin right? Depending what you believe about the nature of Jesus; If Jesus was in heaven before he came to earth, Jesus committed suicide, and his father was guilty of assisted suicide. Technically Jesus did not commit suicide. Since a lot of folks(thats not all for those of you from rio linda) agree that suicide is self-murder and murder is sin Jesus didn't do that as he was sinless to the very end. The bible does record sacrificing ones life to SAVE someone else as okay. Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. God didn't actually grab Jesus and drag him down the street to Golgotha and "pull the trigger"...neither did Jesus "pull the trigger"...
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Post by xna on Dec 8, 2021 22:34:20 GMT -5
True. I once knew a guy who always talked about killing himself. A very long time ago I told him come over to my house and I will show you where to point the gun as I have killed and butchered a lot of animals and I know the best places to point. After that he stopped talking to me about wanting to kill himself. That wasn't the best way to respond, and I wouldn't take that tack now, but it just showed me he was just looking for attention and had no real intention to kill himself. Depending what you believe about the nature of Jesus; If Jesus was in heaven before he came to earth, Jesus committed suicide, and his father was guilty of assisted suicide. Technically Jesus did not commit suicide. Since a lot of folks(thats not all for those of you from rio linda) agree that suicide is self-murder and murder is sin Jesus didn't do that as he was sinless to the very end. The bible does record sacrificing ones life to SAVE someone else as okay. Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. God didn't actually grab Jesus and drag him down the street to Golgotha and "pull the trigger"...neither did Jesus "pull the trigger"... It sounds the same as a father telling his son; go jump in front of that oncoming train.
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Post by verna on Dec 8, 2021 22:43:51 GMT -5
Wow that is heartbreaking. He almost sounds light hearted about it but I can understand that. It might have looked tech easier than living. He said he’d been thinking about suicide for a long time so I wonder if he was like me - it was an obsession. The thoughts will not stop - I need to kill myself, should I do it this way, should I do it today and on and on.. Everyone thought I was a well adjusted fervent professing young woman but I was continually resisting suicide. Leaving the faith relieved it a lot but it continues to this day. Some days it would be easier to just end it but it’s rarely unbearable now so not worth hurting so many people. And like I said, some days are good. I’m so sorry fir your losses. Verna, I do hope you are seeing mental health counselors. I remember well once thinking there is no use of me going to a counselor!
I thought how can they change what I am thinking?
Yet, -I realized that although the problems were very real, -it was how I was thinking about them that was making me so miserable!
It was also happened about the time a new magazine was published called Phycology Today. At that time the magazine was new & and the articles were on a very elemental level easily understood.
We also had new medications that we never had in the past.
I still take an anti-depressant.
I am not sure what would have happened had I not got help, -but I am convinced it would not have been good!
I found a completely new focus on life and finally begin to feel alive and that life was worth living! I also found a group of people who were more interested in what they could do to make a better world NOW for people rather worrying about some supposed unknown existence after death!
Thx Dmm. Yes I have been in therapy most of my life and various psychiatric medications - now just an antidepressant. I participated in an extensive program recently that helped me a lot and then DBT which was excellent. I guess I’m a slow learner! It’s finally starting to sink in. I have a support group I go to sometimes. Slowly I am recovering from the spiritual abuse I experienced but it is so ingrained that it frequently raises it’s ugly head. The shame is the worst. I experience chronic pain as well so that doesn’t help. One day at a time. And gratitude is essential. Thankyou!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 22:47:16 GMT -5
Technically Jesus did not commit suicide. Since a lot of folks(thats not all for those of you from rio linda) agree that suicide is self-murder and murder is sin Jesus didn't do that as he was sinless to the very end. The bible does record sacrificing ones life to SAVE someone else as okay. Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. God didn't actually grab Jesus and drag him down the street to Golgotha and "pull the trigger"...neither did Jesus "pull the trigger"... It sounds the same as a father telling his son; go jump in front of that oncoming train. Its more like, Hey, push that kid out of the way of that on coming train even if you go down...
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2021 23:50:31 GMT -5
If one would just listen. There are better answers than just, "Do as you're told."
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Post by Annan on Dec 9, 2021 8:30:57 GMT -5
A friend of mine tried to commit suicide twice by overdosing on meds. This person said they didn't really want to die, but rather wanted the mental anguish and pain to stop. I remember reading about a 24 year old lady in a Scandinavian country who won the right to die by assisted suicide as she suffered terrible from mental anguish. I was glad to hear that.
We can't chose our birth, but we sure should be able to chose how we die. I've always said there should be an off button. Throw the switch when you've had enough. Unfortunately that is not the case.
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Post by xna on Dec 9, 2021 8:33:40 GMT -5
It sounds the same as a father telling his son; go jump in front of that oncoming train. Its more like, Hey, push that kid out of the way of that on coming train even if you go down...Too bad he just didn't stop the train, then no one gets hurt.
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Post by Annan on Dec 9, 2021 8:34:57 GMT -5
If one is to believe the Trinity, as Nathan does, then one has to conclude that God committed suicide. *gasp*
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Post by verna on Dec 9, 2021 15:46:19 GMT -5
A friend of mine tried to commit suicide twice by overdosing on meds. This person said they didn't really want to die, but rather wanted the mental anguish and pain to stop. I remember reading about a 24 year old lady in a Scandinavian country who won the right to die by assisted suicide as she suffered terrible from mental anguish. I was glad to hear that. We can't chose our birth, but we sure should be able to chose how we die. I've always said there should be an off button. Throw the switch when you've had enough. Unfortunately that is not the case. I think that is often the case Annan - they don’t want to die but need the pain to stop. It’s a good explanation too because most people have experienced physical pain that is unbearable and that it would be extremely difficult to live out their lives with. Many do not understand, however, that psychological pain can be this unbearable - but it can.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Dec 9, 2021 18:24:55 GMT -5
Verna, I do hope you are seeing mental health counselors. I remember well once thinking there is no use of me going to a counselor!
I thought how can they change what I am thinking?
Yet, -I realized that although the problems were very real, -it was how I was thinking about them that was making me so miserable!
It was also happened about the time a new magazine was published called Phycology Today. At that time the magazine was new & and the articles were on a very elemental level easily understood.
We also had new medications that we never had in the past.
I still take an anti-depressant.
I am not sure what would have happened had I not got help, -but I am convinced it would not have been good!
I found a completely new focus on life and finally begin to feel alive and that life was worth living! I also found a group of people who were more interested in what they could do to make a better world NOW for people rather worrying about some supposed unknown existence after death!
Thx Dmm. Yes I have been in therapy most of my life and various psychiatric medications - now just an antidepressant. I participated in an extensive program recently that helped me a lot and then DBT which was excellent. I guess I’m a slow learner! It’s finally starting to sink in. I have a support group I go to sometimes. Slowly I am recovering from the spiritual abuse I experienced but it is so ingrained that it frequently raises it’s ugly head. The shame is the worst. I experience chronic pain as well so that doesn’t help. One day at a time. And gratitude is essential. Thankyou! Verna thank you . Suicidal ideation is common and scary . Such a dark place . I am glad you are getting the help to heal . It takes many years to undo what the WAY HAS DONE TO SOME . Not a damn thing wrong about meds ! If they help take what you need . You come across as quick minded and helpful to others and kind . Unfortunately some on here want to see a scar to show . Our illness is not visible . They don’t bother to ask before they vomit 🤢 some more crap out . All of our family left suffer mental health issues . You are being brave and working with your meds to help you . It takes a long time to undo the evil of the truth . I don’t believe in God , I just believe the universe will supply what I need and it does . I am certain people who are born with schizophrenia and other mental health diseases go to heaven . They are like a lost child . Believe me they are lost in their mind . It took many years to give myself permission to understand my high school sweetheart/husband didn’t want to hurt anyone . He was living in hell already so he took his life . He now has his oldest daughter with him in heaven . We have continued our journey to wellness . Do what you gotta do , don’t undervalue yourself !! Not a damn thing wrong with meds .Thank you for sharing Verna and dmmichgood . Your husband was awesome in my view dimmichgood . There is a back story to why he did so , unfortunately some one here don’t have a -ucking clue as to why . A great man whom loved regardless .
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Post by verna on Dec 9, 2021 20:13:26 GMT -5
Thx Dmm. Yes I have been in therapy most of my life and various psychiatric medications - now just an antidepressant. I participated in an extensive program recently that helped me a lot and then DBT which was excellent. I guess I’m a slow learner! It’s finally starting to sink in. I have a support group I go to sometimes. Slowly I am recovering from the spiritual abuse I experienced but it is so ingrained that it frequently raises it’s ugly head. The shame is the worst. I experience chronic pain as well so that doesn’t help. One day at a time. And gratitude is essential. Thankyou! Verna thank you . Suicidal ideation is common and scary . Such a dark place . I am glad you are getting the help to heal . It takes many years to undo what the WAY HAS DONE TO SOME . Not a damn thing wrong about meds ! If they help take what you need . You come across as quick minded and helpful to others and kind . Unfortunately some on here want to see a scar to show . Our illness is not visible . They don’t bother to ask before they vomit 🤢 some more crap out . All of our family left suffer mental health issues . You are being brave and working with your meds to help you . It takes a long time to undo the evil of the truth . I don’t believe in God , I just believe the universe will supply what I need and it does . I am certain people who are born with schizophrenia and other mental health diseases go to heaven . They are like a lost child . Believe me they are lost in their mind . It took many years to give myself permission to understand my high school sweetheart/husband didn’t want to hurt anyone . He was living in hell already so he took his life . He now has his oldest daughter with him in heaven . We have continued our journey to wellness . Do what you gotta do , don’t undervalue yourself !! Not a damn thing wrong with meds .Thank you for sharing Verna and dmmichgood . Your husband was awesome in my view dimmichgood . There is a back story to why he did so , unfortunately some one here don’t have a -ucking clue as to why . A great man whom loved regardless . Thanks so much Chinesewhispers. That means a lot. I agree. If there is a god, I do not believe he will condemn me for my struggles. If I did I would likely be dead now. Yet some insist on condemning our souls. It makes me very angry but I know they just don’t understand. I cannot even wish understanding on them because I could not wish such pain on them.
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Post by xna on Dec 10, 2021 21:02:37 GMT -5
I like this quote: When crazy comes knocking at the door, slam it shut': NH Gov. on Ron Johnson's Covid-19 claim
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