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Post by irvinegrey on Sept 27, 2013 13:23:06 GMT -5
You'll be hard-pressed to get a witness against 2x2ism among a core-constituency of the TMB. It goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ... This world hates the doctrine of atonement. This is a great spot for Irvine to tell us what he means by "virgin birth".....it might clear some things up for some of us....thanks! Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14 ESV) “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). (Matthew 1:23 ESV)
In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?” And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:26-38 ESV) For those of us who believe that ‘ All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,’ (2 Timothy 3:16 ESV) when to comes to believing in the miracle of the virgin birth, then we must turn to Scripture for evidence and clarification. The Old Testament is one of promise and the New Testament one of fulfilment. Therefore the virgin birth of our Lord Jesus Christ was simply the fulfilment of the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14. Sceptics who deny or marginalise the miracle of the virgin birth are simply undermining the authority of Scripture. The Bible says that the Son of God entered and left this world by acts of supernatural power. His exit was by resurrection-plus-ascension, and his entry by the virgin birth both fulfilling Old Testament anticipations of Isaiah 7:14 and 53:10-12. If we deny the virgin birth because it was a miracle, we should in logic deny Jesus’ bodily resurrection too. These miracles are on a par, and it is unreasonable to accept one while rejecting the other. In the words of Professor Jim Packer, ‘these two miracles indicate Jesus’ freedom from sin. Virgin-born, he did not inherit the guilty twist called original sin: his manhood was untainted, and his acts, attitudes, motives, and desires were consequently faultless. The New Testament emphasises his sinlessness in John 8:29 and 46; Romans 5:18 forward; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 7:26; 1 Peter 2:22-24, etc. Being sinless, he could not be held by death once the sacrifice was done.' Mary was a virgin until after Jesus’ birth, but later ideas of her perpetual virginity are merely fanciful. The Gospels show that Jesus has brothers and sisters: And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. (Mark 3:31 ESV); Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. (Mark 6:3 ESV); When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. (John 19:26-27 ESV)
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Post by What Hat on Sept 27, 2013 14:24:46 GMT -5
I read these comments with profound sadness. They mock the veracity of Holy Scripture and are nothing short of utter blasphemy. By all means you can reject the major teachings of Christianity but at least do it with some respect and reverence. By rejecting the virgin birth of Jesus Christ you, by implication reject the deity of Christ and the efficacy of His death on the cross to avert the wrath of God and atone for our sin. They really have no place on this thread! You'll be hard-pressed to get a witness against 2x2ism among a core-constituency of the TMB. It goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ... This world hates the doctrine of atonement. Sometimes this is stated as "nothing unites like a common enemy". But I've noticed around here that "the friend of my enemy is my enemy". At least the product of your complaint ends up as a friend whereas in the latter case, the result is needless enmity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 16:08:20 GMT -5
This is a great spot for Irvine to tell us what he means by "virgin birth".....it might clear some things up for some of us....thanks! Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14 ESV) “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). (Matthew 1:23 ESV)
In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?” And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:26-38 ESV) For those of us who believe that ‘ All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,’ (2 Timothy 3:16 ESV) when to comes to believing in the miracle of the virgin birth, then we must turn to Scripture for evidence and clarification. The Old Testament is one of promise and the New Testament one of fulfilment. Therefore the virgin birth of our Lord Jesus Christ was simply the fulfilment of the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14. Sceptics who deny or marginalise the miracle of the virgin birth are simply undermining the authority of Scripture. The Bible says that the Son of God entered and left this world by acts of supernatural power. His exit was by resurrection-plus-ascension, and his entry by the virgin birth both fulfilling Old Testament anticipations of Isaiah 7:14 and 53:10-12. If we deny the virgin birth because it was a miracle, we should in logic deny Jesus’ bodily resurrection too. These miracles are on a par, and it is unreasonable to accept one while rejecting the other. In the words of Professor Jim Packer, ‘these two miracles indicate Jesus’ freedom from sin. Virgin-born, he did not inherit the guilty twist called original sin: his manhood was untainted, and his acts, attitudes, motives, and desires were consequently faultless. The New Testament emphasises his sinlessness in John 8:29 and 46; Romans 5:18 forward; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 7:26; 1 Peter 2:22-24, etc. Being sinless, he could not be held by death once the sacrifice was done.' Mary was a virgin until after Jesus’ birth, but later ideas of her perpetual virginity are merely fanciful. The Gospels show that Jesus has brothers and sisters: And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. (Mark 3:31 ESV); Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. (Mark 6:3 ESV); When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. (John 19:26-27 ESV) You don't give enough options. You say scripture is authoritative so you either reject scripture or accept the virgin birth. There is another option: that the authoritative scripture has been translated wrong. Then you are placing authority not in the scripture, but in the translators. Why do Jews Reject the Christian dogma of the Virgin Birth? (The Second Jewish Book Of Why) (By Alfred Kolatch 1985) Based on Isaiah 7:14, Christians claim that the birth of Jesus was predicted long before the event. The verse reads, "Behold, the alma shall conceive and bear a son and shall call him Immanuel [literally, 'God is with us']." Although the Hebrew word alma literally means "young woman," when the Gospel of Matthew (1:23) cites the verse from Isaiah, it translates Alma as "Virgin." This translation is useful in supporting the contention that the miraculous birth of Jesus was predicted in the Old Testament. Jewish scholars reject the idea of the Virgin Birth because, they point out, in Isaiah 7:14 the word Alma is part of the Hebrew phrase ha-alma hara, meaning "the alma is pregnant." Since the present tense is used, it is clear that the young woman was already pregnant and hence not a virgin. This being the case, the verse cannot be cited as a prediction of the future. Jewish scholars, supported by many Christian scholars, have also noted that the word alma in Isaiah 7:14 cannot mean "virgin" because elsewhere when the Bible wants to specify "virgin," it uses the Hebrew word betula. When the Revised Standard Version of the Bible was issued in 1952, the words "young woman," not the word "Virgin, were used for alma in its translation of Isaiah 7:14. This upset the Fundamentalist Christian community, which maintains that alma in Isaiah refers to the mother of Jesus, who conceived miraculously, without cohabitation with a man. These Fundamentalists expressed their vehement opposition to the new translation by holding burnings of the Revised Edition of the Bible.
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Post by irvinegrey on Sept 27, 2013 16:57:30 GMT -5
CD I have heard and read most of these objections before and of course the Jewish scholars want to reject the fact that the Messiah, Jesus Christ live, died and rose again and today sits at the Father's right hand and will one day come back as our judge. Therefore we can expect them to come up with tenuous reasons - in this case the translation as to make their case. Yes, I am afraid it is a case of reject Scripture or accept the virgin birth and all of the other major doctrines of the Bible that provide a coherent plan of salvation.
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Post by Mary on Sept 27, 2013 17:57:34 GMT -5
Irvine, was it a virgin birth or virgin conception? Did Mary give birth to Jesus in the normal way or some other way? My understanding from what StAnne has written on here is that she believes Mary did not have a normal birth but she was still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus.
I only thought about the virgin birth being actually the virgin conception but then I can take it that it means that she was a virgin when she gave birth but not after giving birth as a result of giving birth.
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Post by Gene on Sept 27, 2013 18:33:11 GMT -5
Does using a turkey baster preserve virginity? I read these comments with profound sadness. They mock the veracity of Holy Scripture and are nothing short of utter blasphemy. By all means you can reject the major teachings of Christianity but at least do it with some respect and reverence. By rejecting the virgin birth of Jesus Christ you, by implication reject the deity of Christ and the efficacy of His death on the cross to avert the wrath of God and atone for our sin. They really have no place on this thread! It's a public board, IG. If you wish to avert your eyes from comments written by people who do not revere Christianity, this is probably not the best place for you to spend time. Your request that all who pass this way revere Christian doctrine makes we wonder whether you revere the teachings of non-Christian religions. Do you?
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Post by fixit on Sept 27, 2013 18:41:36 GMT -5
"Take Mary home as your wife" doesn't speak to me of a sexless life together.
Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
19 Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
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Post by fixit on Sept 27, 2013 18:45:44 GMT -5
Your request that all who pass this way revere Christian doctrine makes we wonder whether you revere the teachings of non-Christian religions. Do you? Anything that doesn't line up with IG's way of thinking is "particularly dangerous" according to IG. Frankly I believe such an attitude is particularly dangerous.
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Post by What Hat on Sept 27, 2013 22:30:39 GMT -5
Your request that all who pass this way revere Christian doctrine makes we wonder whether you revere the teachings of non-Christian religions. Do you? Anything that doesn't line up with IG's way of thinking is "particularly dangerous" according to IG. Frankly I believe such an attitude is particularly dangerous. Well, Irvine's right on this one. The turkey baster method is NOT recommended for artificial insemination and is particularly dangerous. fertility.choicemoms.org/at-home_insemination/42
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 27, 2013 23:03:30 GMT -5
Does using a turkey baster preserve virginity? I read these comments with profound sadness. They mock the veracity of Holy Scripture and are nothing short of utter blasphemy. By all means you can reject the major teachings of Christianity but at least do it with some respect and reverence. By rejecting the virgin birth of Jesus Christ you, by implication reject the deity of Christ and the efficacy of His death on the cross to avert the wrath of God and atone for our sin. They really have no place on this thread! I wasn't mocking the veracity of the Holy Scriptures at all. I was mocking the propensity of religions to create outlandish stories and pass them off as divinely inspired wisdom. I was also a test of your commonality with and sympathy for Muslims when they see cartoons depicting Mohammed as a terrorist.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 27, 2013 23:10:26 GMT -5
Anything that doesn't line up with IG's way of thinking is "particularly dangerous" according to IG. Frankly I believe such an attitude is particularly dangerous. Well, Irvine's right on this one. The turkey baster method is NOT recommended for artificial insemination and is particularly dangerous. fertility.choicemoms.org/at-home_insemination/42Thank you. Insightful. I had another question, but maybe I shouldn't ask it now.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2013 0:42:46 GMT -5
Does using a turkey baster preserve virginity? I read these comments with profound sadness. They mock the veracity of Holy Scripture and are nothing short of utter blasphemy. By all means you can reject the major teachings of Christianity but at least do it with some respect and reverence. By rejecting the virgin birth of Jesus Christ you, by implication reject the deity of Christ and the efficacy of His death on the cross to avert the wrath of God and atone for our sin. They really have no place on this thread! "..this thread?"
Irvine Grey, Does "this thread" belong to you?
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Post by irvinegrey on Sept 28, 2013 1:28:13 GMT -5
Irvine, was it a virgin birth or virgin conception? Did Mary give birth to Jesus in the normal way or some other way? My understanding from what StAnne has written on here is that she believes Mary did not have a normal birth but she was still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus. I only thought about the virgin birth being actually the virgin conception but then I can take it that it means that she was a virgin when she gave birth but not after giving birth as a result of giving birth. I agree - virgin conception but Jesus was born in the normal way - there is nothing in Scripture to tell us differently.
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2013 5:10:35 GMT -5
You'll be hard-pressed to get a witness against 2x2ism among a core-constituency of the TMB. It goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ... This world hates the doctrine of atonement. Personally I don't hate the doctrine of atonement. I just don't see any need for it. The only time atonement is needed is if the doctrine of hell is taught first. Concerning our passions to reject something is to hate it. I don't believe in the traditional hell but I do believe that humankind finds themselves in a "no-mans-land" for defiance to the holy spirit ... individually, corporately, and chronically.
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2013 5:20:53 GMT -5
You'll be hard-pressed to get a witness against 2x2ism among a core-constituency of the TMB. It goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ... This world hates the doctrine of atonement. Sometimes this is stated as "nothing unites like a common enemy". But I've noticed around here that "the friend of my enemy is my enemy". At least the product of your complaint ends up as a friend whereas in the latter case, the result is needless enmity. A friend of convenience.
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2013 5:26:13 GMT -5
You'll be hard-pressed to get a witness against 2x2ism among a core-constituency of the TMB. It goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ... This world hates the doctrine of atonement. Sometimes this is stated as "nothing unites like a common enemy". But I've noticed around here that "the friend of my enemy is my enemy". At least the product of your complaint ends up as a friend whereas in the latter case, the result is needless enmity. Necessary enmity. It's inevitable that natural friends will band together.
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Post by snow on Sept 28, 2013 9:51:06 GMT -5
Personally I don't hate the doctrine of atonement. I just don't see any need for it. The only time atonement is needed is if the doctrine of hell is taught first. Concerning our passions to reject something is to hate it. I don't believe in the traditional hell but I do believe that humankind finds themselves in a "no-mans-land" for defiance to the holy spirit ... individually, corporately, and chronically. That is just a consciousness thing. We can be passionate about something and reject it and not hate it. It just simply is not in our belief system. I once believed in hell when I was a 2x2 and for a while after. Time and understanding have changed that. I am now completely sure there is no such place. I don't see how experiencing and exercising free will is a 'defiance to the holy spirit'. Makes no sense to me. If you have free will and get punished for exercising it, that's not free will is it.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 9:56:33 GMT -5
Irvine, was it a virgin birth or virgin conception? Did Mary give birth to Jesus in the normal way or some other way? My understanding from what StAnne has written on here is that she believes Mary did not have a normal birth but she was still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus. I only thought about the virgin birth being actually the virgin conception but then I can take it that it means that she was a virgin when she gave birth but not after giving birth as a result of giving birth. I agree - virgin conception but Jesus was born in the normal way - there is nothing in Scripture to tell us differently. Thank YOU, Irvine...your other response made me wonder if you were going along with this idea that Jesus wasn't actually born like other humans but perhaps had passed like a light from Mary....that seems so preposterous in that IF that was the way he was meant to enter into the world, why put Mary through a pregnancy that made her large with child....also we read the acc ount of Jesus' birth was worded much like Elizabeth giving birth to John. I read last night the scripture all relating to the advent of Jesus entry into the world in human form and one of those scriptures mentioned that Jesus was "behooved" to be made like unto his brethren(speaking of humans). We also read of Mary having to go through her confinement period that was of the OT law in regard to a male child, we also read about Jesus having to be circumcised on the eighth day...so if he could be "beamed" out of Mary like a light, why in the world put him through a circumcision....surely if it was all that magical he could have come already circumcised, if that was a necessity...... Again, thanks for clarifying that you believe in the virgin conception but believe that Jesus was Mary's firstborn son that opened the matrix and was under the OT law in all aspects.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 9:59:48 GMT -5
I read these comments with profound sadness. They mock the veracity of Holy Scripture and are nothing short of utter blasphemy. By all means you can reject the major teachings of Christianity but at least do it with some respect and reverence. By rejecting the virgin birth of Jesus Christ you, by implication reject the deity of Christ and the efficacy of His death on the cross to avert the wrath of God and atone for our sin. They really have no place on this thread! "..this thread?"
Irvine Grey, Does "this thread" belong to you?I'm not Irvine, but in a sense Yes this belongs to him....it started out as a book review in regards to the researched book Irvine wrote "Two by Two, The Shape of a Shapeless Movement" And as usual we've gone completely off the path, though it is bringing out some of that which was taught to some of the 2x2's throughout the last 100 yrs. or so.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 10:01:19 GMT -5
Anything that doesn't line up with IG's way of thinking is "particularly dangerous" according to IG. Frankly I believe such an attitude is particularly dangerous. Well, Irvine's right on this one. The turkey baster method is NOT recommended for artificial insemination and is particularly dangerous. fertility.choicemoms.org/at-home_insemination/42Air embolus is as dangerous as a blood based one!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 10:17:29 GMT -5
Gene! didn't your mommie & daddy tell you the story about the "birds & bees?"
Well, I think you are old enough to be told!
However, I can't tell you because I never could figure out what 'birds & bees' have to do with one another!
Just too difficult for my poor brain to contemplate!
If they knew how the bees did it they'd probably faint. You've heard of the "flight of the bumblebee"? Well the honeybees pretty much the same....the queen leaves her hive and goes out with a number of her drones and she will mate with one of those up in the air, she will sting him and he will die plus most all of the other drone bees know their time is limited...they don't necessarily go back to the hive...fact is IF the queen is going to be a good producing worker bee queen, the queen will not let the drones back in the hive for they eat up the honey and nectar and often mess around and hurt the baby bees in the comb. A good queen is going to be very particular about who comes into her hive...she will have "her code" that her worker bees will know and no other bee can know that. You can't very easily combine one hive of bees with another without going through an "acquaintance" time where the bees cannot physically get together but the smaller hive will either already be queenless or the stronger queen will kill the weaker queen and take the hive and the worker bees as her own...we combine some hives that way and it was an exciting and anxious time to be patient and let the bees tear through the paper to one another....by the time they've gotten rid of the paper, all the signals necessary have been endowed by the stronger queen into the combining hive! One day someone called and said that they had a swarm of bees on a small apple tree in their front yard...well, so it happened that the man my husband was partners with in the bee business was with him and they went out and set a new hive under the swarm and by smoking them gently they clung together quite well, then the other man picked the empty hive up and held it close to the limb where the swarm set....my husband kept the smoker going as he gently brushed the bees down into their new hive....he didn't necessarily get them all in with his swiping, but he made sure the queen was in there, then the set the hive on the ground to where the stragglers would eventully follow their queen. They went out about dusk to bring the hive to our house so we could give it medication and sugar water to get it started. There were no signs of any bees flying around when they picked the hive up and they'd closed the opening off so they could transport it without losing any bees.....the next day the people called again and said "I thought you got that swarm of bees." I found my husband and this other man and they went out to that apple tree and there was maybe a double handful of bees clinging in a swarm there. so they carefully brushed them off into a paper sack and brought them home.....thinking that they belonged to the new hive, they open the sack and dumped the bees close to the opening of the hive....they got a big surprise! Those bees out of that sack didn't belong to the new hive....it just so happened to be a smaller swarm...the new hive bees came out stinging and anything in their way the stung....which of course they were trying to kill the foreign swarm before they go into their hive and also my husband this other man didn't move away quick enough...they both got overa hundred stings a piece.....I was pushing Benedryl and fluids and taking stingers out for over 3 hours.....luckily neither one had a bad allergic reaction or I got the Benedryl to them in time...sheesh what a dumb thing to do!
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Post by Gene on Sept 28, 2013 13:38:25 GMT -5
If they knew how the bees did it they'd probably faint. You've heard of the "flight of the bumblebee"? Well the honeybees pretty much the same....the queen leaves her hive and goes out with a number of her drones and she will mate with one of those up in the air, she will sting him and he will die plus most all of the other drone bees know their time is limited...they don't necessarily go back to the hive...fact is IF the queen is going to be a good producing worker bee queen, the queen will not let the drones back in the hive for they eat up the honey and nectar and often mess around and hurt the baby bees in the comb. A good queen is going to be very particular about who comes into her hive...she will have "her code" that her worker bees will know and no other bee can know that. You can't very easily combine one hive of bees with another without going through an "acquaintance" time where the bees cannot physically get together but the smaller hive will either already be queenless or the stronger queen will kill the weaker queen and take the hive and the worker bees as her own...we combine some hives that way and it was an exciting and anxious time to be patient and let the bees tear through the paper to one another....by the time they've gotten rid of the paper, all the signals necessary have been endowed by the stronger queen into the combining hive! One day someone called and said that they had a swarm of bees on a small apple tree in their front yard...well, so it happened that the man my husband was partners with in the bee business was with him and they went out and set a new hive under the swarm and by smoking them gently they clung together quite well, then the other man picked the empty hive up and held it close to the limb where the swarm set....my husband kept the smoker going as he gently brushed the bees down into their new hive....he didn't necessarily get them all in with his swiping, but he made sure the queen was in there, then the set the hive on the ground to where the stragglers would eventully follow their queen. They went out about dusk to bring the hive to our house so we could give it medication and sugar water to get it started. There were no signs of any bees flying around when they picked the hive up and they'd closed the opening off so they could transport it without losing any bees.....the next day the people called again and said "I thought you got that swarm of bees." I found my husband and this other man and they went out to that apple tree and there was maybe a double handful of bees clinging in a swarm there. so they carefully brushed them off into a paper sack and brought them home.....thinking that they belonged to the new hive, they open the sack and dumped the bees close to the opening of the hive....they got a big surprise! Those bees out of that sack didn't belong to the new hive....it just so happened to be a smaller swarm...the new hive bees came out stinging and anything in their way the stung....which of course they were trying to kill the foreign swarm before they go into their hive and also my husband this other man didn't move away quick enough...they both got overa hundred stings a piece.....I was pushing Benedryl and fluids and taking stingers out for over 3 hours.....luckily neither one had a bad allergic reaction or I got the Benedryl to them in time...sheesh what a dumb thing to do! That's fascinating, Sharon - you've had some really interesting experiences that most of us have not!
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2013 17:35:11 GMT -5
Irvine, was it a virgin birth or virgin conception? Did Mary give birth to Jesus in the normal way or some other way? My understanding from what StAnne has written on here is that she believes Mary did not have a normal birth but she was still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus. I only thought about the virgin birth being actually the virgin conception but then I can take it that it means that she was a virgin when she gave birth but not after giving birth as a result of giving birth. I agree - virgin conception but Jesus was born in the normal way - there is nothing in Scripture to tell us differently. Scripture would also confirm that Mary would not have remained a perpetual virgin, given that Jesus had brothers (and maybe sisters). Unless there is another revelation somewhere that indicated they also were virgin births.
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Post by What Hat on Sept 28, 2013 19:23:50 GMT -5
If they knew how the bees did it they'd probably faint. You've heard of the "flight of the bumblebee"? Well the honeybees pretty much the same....the queen leaves her hive and goes out with a number of her drones and she will mate with one of those up in the air, she will sting him and he will die plus most all of the other drone bees know their time is limited...they don't necessarily go back to the hive...fact is IF the queen is going to be a good producing worker bee queen, the queen will not let the drones back in the hive for they eat up the honey and nectar and often mess around and hurt the baby bees in the comb. A good queen is going to be very particular about who comes into her hive...she will have "her code" that her worker bees will know and no other bee can know that. You can't very easily combine one hive of bees with another without going through an "acquaintance" time where the bees cannot physically get together but the smaller hive will either already be queenless or the stronger queen will kill the weaker queen and take the hive and the worker bees as her own...we combine some hives that way and it was an exciting and anxious time to be patient and let the bees tear through the paper to one another....by the time they've gotten rid of the paper, all the signals necessary have been endowed by the stronger queen into the combining hive! One day someone called and said that they had a swarm of bees on a small apple tree in their front yard...well, so it happened that the man my husband was partners with in the bee business was with him and they went out and set a new hive under the swarm and by smoking them gently they clung together quite well, then the other man picked the empty hive up and held it close to the limb where the swarm set....my husband kept the smoker going as he gently brushed the bees down into their new hive....he didn't necessarily get them all in with his swiping, but he made sure the queen was in there, then the set the hive on the ground to where the stragglers would eventully follow their queen. They went out about dusk to bring the hive to our house so we could give it medication and sugar water to get it started. There were no signs of any bees flying around when they picked the hive up and they'd closed the opening off so they could transport it without losing any bees.....the next day the people called again and said "I thought you got that swarm of bees." I found my husband and this other man and they went out to that apple tree and there was maybe a double handful of bees clinging in a swarm there. so they carefully brushed them off into a paper sack and brought them home.....thinking that they belonged to the new hive, they open the sack and dumped the bees close to the opening of the hive....they got a big surprise! Those bees out of that sack didn't belong to the new hive....it just so happened to be a smaller swarm...the new hive bees came out stinging and anything in their way the stung....which of course they were trying to kill the foreign swarm before they go into their hive and also my husband this other man didn't move away quick enough...they both got overa hundred stings a piece.....I was pushing Benedryl and fluids and taking stingers out for over 3 hours.....luckily neither one had a bad allergic reaction or I got the Benedryl to them in time...sheesh what a dumb thing to do! Wow. Alfred Hitchcock could have done something with that. He did do the Birds, but never got around to the Bees.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 19:36:54 GMT -5
You've heard of the "flight of the bumblebee"? Well the honeybees pretty much the same....the queen leaves her hive and goes out with a number of her drones and she will mate with one of those up in the air, she will sting him and he will die plus most all of the other drone bees know their time is limited...they don't necessarily go back to the hive...fact is IF the queen is going to be a good producing worker bee queen, the queen will not let the drones back in the hive for they eat up the honey and nectar and often mess around and hurt the baby bees in the comb. A good queen is going to be very particular about who comes into her hive...she will have "her code" that her worker bees will know and no other bee can know that. You can't very easily combine one hive of bees with another without going through an "acquaintance" time where the bees cannot physically get together but the smaller hive will either already be queenless or the stronger queen will kill the weaker queen and take the hive and the worker bees as her own...we combine some hives that way and it was an exciting and anxious time to be patient and let the bees tear through the paper to one another....by the time they've gotten rid of the paper, all the signals necessary have been endowed by the stronger queen into the combining hive! One day someone called and said that they had a swarm of bees on a small apple tree in their front yard...well, so it happened that the man my husband was partners with in the bee business was with him and they went out and set a new hive under the swarm and by smoking them gently they clung together quite well, then the other man picked the empty hive up and held it close to the limb where the swarm set....my husband kept the smoker going as he gently brushed the bees down into their new hive....he didn't necessarily get them all in with his swiping, but he made sure the queen was in there, then the set the hive on the ground to where the stragglers would eventully follow their queen. They went out about dusk to bring the hive to our house so we could give it medication and sugar water to get it started. There were no signs of any bees flying around when they picked the hive up and they'd closed the opening off so they could transport it without losing any bees.....the next day the people called again and said "I thought you got that swarm of bees." I found my husband and this other man and they went out to that apple tree and there was maybe a double handful of bees clinging in a swarm there. so they carefully brushed them off into a paper sack and brought them home.....thinking that they belonged to the new hive, they open the sack and dumped the bees close to the opening of the hive....they got a big surprise! Those bees out of that sack didn't belong to the new hive....it just so happened to be a smaller swarm...the new hive bees came out stinging and anything in their way the stung....which of course they were trying to kill the foreign swarm before they go into their hive and also my husband this other man didn't move away quick enough...they both got overa hundred stings a piece.....I was pushing Benedryl and fluids and taking stingers out for over 3 hours.....luckily neither one had a bad allergic reaction or I got the Benedryl to them in time...sheesh what a dumb thing to do! Wow. Alfred Hitchcock could have done something with that. He did do the Birds, but never got around to the Bees. Wasn't there a movie about the killer bees? As I recall they actually used the truth about those killer bees and magnified everything over a hundred per cent in order to make the scary movie! I can tell you some very interesting "bee" stories...they are a wondrous insect to learn about! One thing I learned early on in our beekeeping days was to buy unperfumed soaps, deodorants, hair spray, etc because if you didn't and wore what omost people wear without thinking, you might be covered with bees quicklyu....not that they were there to do damage to you, but if they get caught in your hair, they'll sting and if they get caught in any tight spot, they're going to sting....best thing to do is to stand and try to gently breathe and let them get done what they're after and then let them leave you...course I don't know too many people who can stay hitched that long! ha ha
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 19:40:13 GMT -5
I agree - virgin conception but Jesus was born in the normal way - there is nothing in Scripture to tell us differently. Scripture would also confirm that Mary would not have remained a perpetual virgin, given that Jesus had brothers (and maybe sisters). Unless there is another revelation somewhere that indicated they also were virgin births. After a normal birth, she wouldn't be a perpetual virgin either....once the matrix is opened and the hymen sacrificed, then virgin is no more......It plainly states that Joseph didn't know Mary UNTIL after her firstborn son was born....otherwords, Joseph did Know her in the intimate way AFTER Jesus' birth!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 28, 2013 19:47:04 GMT -5
You've heard of the "flight of the bumblebee"? Well the honeybees pretty much the same....the queen leaves her hive and goes out with a number of her drones and she will mate with one of those up in the air, she will sting him and he will die plus most all of the other drone bees know their time is limited...they don't necessarily go back to the hive...fact is IF the queen is going to be a good producing worker bee queen, the queen will not let the drones back in the hive for they eat up the honey and nectar and often mess around and hurt the baby bees in the comb. A good queen is going to be very particular about who comes into her hive...she will have "her code" that her worker bees will know and no other bee can know that. You can't very easily combine one hive of bees with another without going through an "acquaintance" time where the bees cannot physically get together but the smaller hive will either already be queenless or the stronger queen will kill the weaker queen and take the hive and the worker bees as her own...we combine some hives that way and it was an exciting and anxious time to be patient and let the bees tear through the paper to one another....by the time they've gotten rid of the paper, all the signals necessary have been endowed by the stronger queen into the combining hive! One day someone called and said that they had a swarm of bees on a small apple tree in their front yard...well, so it happened that the man my husband was partners with in the bee business was with him and they went out and set a new hive under the swarm and by smoking them gently they clung together quite well, then the other man picked the empty hive up and held it close to the limb where the swarm set....my husband kept the smoker going as he gently brushed the bees down into their new hive....he didn't necessarily get them all in with his swiping, but he made sure the queen was in there, then the set the hive on the ground to where the stragglers would eventully follow their queen. They went out about dusk to bring the hive to our house so we could give it medication and sugar water to get it started. There were no signs of any bees flying around when they picked the hive up and they'd closed the opening off so they could transport it without losing any bees.....the next day the people called again and said "I thought you got that swarm of bees." I found my husband and this other man and they went out to that apple tree and there was maybe a double handful of bees clinging in a swarm there. so they carefully brushed them off into a paper sack and brought them home.....thinking that they belonged to the new hive, they open the sack and dumped the bees close to the opening of the hive....they got a big surprise! Those bees out of that sack didn't belong to the new hive....it just so happened to be a smaller swarm...the new hive bees came out stinging and anything in their way the stung....which of course they were trying to kill the foreign swarm before they go into their hive and also my husband this other man didn't move away quick enough...they both got overa hundred stings a piece.....I was pushing Benedryl and fluids and taking stingers out for over 3 hours.....luckily neither one had a bad allergic reaction or I got the Benedryl to them in time...sheesh what a dumb thing to do! That's fascinating, Sharon - you've had some really interesting experiences that most of us have not! Well, I'm sure others have had good experiences also...though truthfully there was never a dull minute around my husband
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Post by What Hat on Sept 28, 2013 20:10:28 GMT -5
That's fascinating, Sharon - you've had some really interesting experiences that most of us have not! Well, I'm sure others have had good experiences also...though truthfully there was never a dull minute around my husband Yes, it sounds like he was an interesting person to bee with.
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