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Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 14:09:07 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115
The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why?
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Post by snow on May 22, 2013 15:18:22 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why? My thought is this. It is very hard to justify belief in something no one can see or for that matter totally agree on. The Bible is a contradiction because there were so many personal writers all receiving different 'insights'. I don't think people understand that spiritual insights they receive are still filtered through the individuals understanding of their world. How can it not be really? God didn't write the bible. He supposedly inspired men to write things. They would have done so by filtering everything through their own understanding. So yes there will always be 'inconvenient' questions. They become inconvenient only if you believe they are inerrant. If you don't then you must believe based on faith and protect that if you believe your interpretation is the only right one. Acknowledging that you have a way, but not the only way, frees you from having to explain and justify your beliefs. Everyone can tolerate other's beliefs if they are presented that way and do no harm to others. It would certainly bring more harmony to the world if we acknowledged others beliefs and our own as just one of many ways to understand life and death.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 17:02:00 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why? i have a question for you, why do you want to know why? you should know the answer to your question being a christian.
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Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 18:08:55 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why? i have a question for you, why do you want to know why? you should know the answer to your question being a christian. I don't have questions as a Christian, I have questions as a member of the 2x2s about the 2x2s.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 18:24:16 GMT -5
i have a question for you, why do you want to know why? you should know the answer to your question being a christian. I don't have questions as a Christian, I have questions as a member of the 2x2s about the 2x2s. you are not a christian?
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Post by placid-void on May 22, 2013 18:30:51 GMT -5
So yes there will always be 'inconvenient' questions. They become inconvenient only if you believe they are inerrant. If you don't then you must believe based on faith and protect that if you believe your interpretation is the only right one. Acknowledging that you have a way, but not the only way, frees you from having to explain and justify your beliefs. Everyone can tolerate other's beliefs if they are presented that way and do no harm to others. It would certainly bring more harmony to the world if we acknowledged others beliefs and our own as just one of many ways to understand life and death. I essentially agree with this point of view, snow. Recently I have been reading (and enjoying) "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathan Haidt ( righteousmind.com/). He makes some of the points you are making very forcefully with some interesting interpretive and psychological research to support his thesis. Interesting work.
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Post by placid-void on May 22, 2013 18:38:08 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115Was wondering if you might have meant Christopher Hitchens instead of Christopher Higgens? I know Christopher Hitchens wrote a book "god is not Great" in 2009.
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Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 19:05:59 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115Was wondering if you might have meant Christopher Hitchens instead of Christopher Higgens? I know Christopher Hitchens wrote a book "god is not Great" in 2009. I did- thank you, yknot.
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Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 19:59:06 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115Was wondering if you might have meant Christopher Hitchens instead of Christopher Higgens? I know Christopher Hitchens wrote a book "god is not Great" in 2009. I started reading that book, by the way. It is well written and Mr. Hitchens makes some very astute observations in it.
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Post by snow on May 22, 2013 20:01:53 GMT -5
So yes there will always be 'inconvenient' questions. They become inconvenient only if you believe they are inerrant. If you don't then you must believe based on faith and protect that if you believe your interpretation is the only right one. Acknowledging that you have a way, but not the only way, frees you from having to explain and justify your beliefs. Everyone can tolerate other's beliefs if they are presented that way and do no harm to others. It would certainly bring more harmony to the world if we acknowledged others beliefs and our own as just one of many ways to understand life and death. I essentially agree with this point of view, snow. Recently I have been reading (and enjoying) "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathan Haidt ( righteousmind.com/). He makes some of the points you are making very forcefully with some interesting interpretive and psychological research to support his thesis. Interesting work. I have gone to the site. I will need to have a look at what he has to say. It sounds interesting. Thanks yknot!
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Post by snow on May 22, 2013 20:02:53 GMT -5
Was wondering if you might have meant Christopher Hitchens instead of Christopher Higgens? I know Christopher Hitchens wrote a book "god is not Great" in 2009. I started reading that book, by the way. It is well written and Mr. Hitchens makes some very astute observations in it. It is a good book. I like his writings better than Dawkins. I also like Sam Harris.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 22, 2013 23:05:30 GMT -5
I started reading that book, by the way. It is well written and Mr. Hitchens makes some very astute observations in it. It is a good book. I like his writings better than Dawkins. I also like Sam Harris. I like Sam Harris very much,he does lay it on the line as much as Dawkins but somehow not quite as conformational. His Letter to a Christian Nation is short & to the point, short & very easy & quickly read.
Dawkins has a short fuse very often. I've heard him speak & he was finding fault with something about the mike. Most of the time I can agree with Hitchens, especially about Mother Teresa!
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Post by snow on May 23, 2013 14:31:40 GMT -5
It is a good book. I like his writings better than Dawkins. I also like Sam Harris. I like Sam Harris very much,he does lay it on the line as much as Dawkins but somehow not quite as conformational. His Letter to a Christian Nation is short & to the point, short & very easy & quickly read.
Dawkins has a short fuse very often. I've heard him speak & he was finding fault with something about the mike. Most of the time I can agree with Hitchens, especially about Mother Teresa!
Yes I found the writings about Mother Teresa to be interesting. It got me curious so I went and read some books on her. Some of them just confirmed Hitchens writings and other's didn't. But it gave me a good well rounded understanding of who she was and what she thought and, what others thought about her. In many ways she did good things, in other ways, well, not so good!
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Post by What Hat on May 25, 2013 11:25:30 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why? Because that's what the friends, a great number of them in any case, want them to do, sometimes explicitly, but more often because silence means consent.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 11:43:38 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115The workers still silence anybody who asks inconvenient questions. I have an inconvenient question for them, why? Because that's what the friends, a great number of them in any case, want them to do, sometimes explicitly, but more often because silence means consent. Good point, very true. A lot of friends endorse these efforts of the workers to silence people. The workers are dependent on the support of the friends and they know it. They know that a good majority of the friends actually want this sort of control exercised over their lives. Why? That would make a great topic by itself.
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Post by snow on May 25, 2013 12:14:01 GMT -5
Because that's what the friends, a great number of them in any case, want them to do, sometimes explicitly, but more often because silence means consent. Good point, very true. A lot of friends endorse these efforts of the workers to silence people. The workers are dependent on the support of the friends and they know it. They know that a good majority of the friends actually want this sort of control exercised over their lives. Why? That would make a great topic by itself. I would venture to say that anyone that wants controls put on them and their group are people that are fearful and not trusting of their own ability to stay safe. They literally want to be told what to do, rather than working it out for themselves. It is safe and safe is of utmost importance. My thoughts are this. We need to venture out of our comfort zones in order to grow. But until we feel safe, we can't do that. So the process of silencing people who ask uncomfortable questions serves a very real purpose for those who need to feel safe. It is just another step on our journey to self realization? jmt
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Post by dmmichgood on May 25, 2013 15:34:59 GMT -5
Good point, very true. A lot of friends endorse these efforts of the workers to silence people. The workers are dependent on the support of the friends and they know it. They know that a good majority of the friends actually want this sort of control exercised over their lives. Why? That would make a great topic by itself. I would venture to say that anyone that wants controls put on them and their group are people that are fearful and not trusting of their own ability to stay safe. They literally want to be told what to do, rather than working it out for themselves. It is safe and safe is of utmost importance. My thoughts are this. We need to venture out of our comfort zones in order to grow. But until we feel safe, we can't do that. So the process of silencing people who ask uncomfortable questions serves a very real purpose for those who need to feel safe. It is just another step on our journey to self realization? jmt I've often thought that is the reason people, no only accept being told what to do, but actually want to be told what to do.
It keeps them from having to make decisions on their own.
Not making decisions themselves gives them the perfect excuse if something turns out wrong.
I also think that behind all evangelism is the more people can get others to believe as they believe, it makes them feel more sure that their belief is right!
They can say, "Well look all of these people who also believe it, therefore it must be true!"
It is also why they feel so much antipathy towards anyone like myself, an atheist, who dares to not believe!
It reveals the doubts they, themselves, often have.
It shows the cracks in the foundation of their skillfully constructed system.
They are fearful that their house of cards will tumble down they will be forced into "thinking for themselves."
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Post by snow on May 25, 2013 16:24:30 GMT -5
I would venture to say that anyone that wants controls put on them and their group are people that are fearful and not trusting of their own ability to stay safe. They literally want to be told what to do, rather than working it out for themselves. It is safe and safe is of utmost importance. My thoughts are this. We need to venture out of our comfort zones in order to grow. But until we feel safe, we can't do that. So the process of silencing people who ask uncomfortable questions serves a very real purpose for those who need to feel safe. It is just another step on our journey to self realization? jmt I've often thought that is the reason people, no only accept being told what to do, but actually want to be told what to do.
It keeps them from having to make decisions on their own.
Not making decisions themselves gives them the perfect excuse if something turns out wrong.
I also think that behind all evangelism is the more people can get others to believe as they believe, it makes them feel more sure that their belief is right!
They can say, "Well look all of these people who also believe it, therefore it must be true!"
It is also why they feel so much antipathy towards anyone like myself, an atheist, who dares to not believe!
It reveals the doubts they, themselves, often have.
It shows the cracks in the foundation of their skillfully constructed system.
They are fearful that their house of cards will tumble down they will be forced into "thinking for themselves."
And it also explains why there are religious wars and witch burnings and any number of things that people do to preserve their ideas of what is true. All Satan is is a threat to beliefs about God. But if we 'fall short' we then have a scapegoat, Satan.
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Post by What Hat on May 25, 2013 17:09:47 GMT -5
All those things are true, but I also think that a 'sense of belonging' has a very dark side. Some of it is, "who does he think he (or she) is, trying to get away with wearing their hair that way"? Or whatever petty circumstance you would care to name. The Mennonites around here all paint their houses white with green trim. No one would dare paint their trim blue. If you think you're immune to this, how do you feel about piercings or pink streaked hair or automobile subwoofers?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 18:27:43 GMT -5
All those things are true, but I also think that a 'sense of belonging' has a very dark side. Some of it is, "who does he think he (or she) is, trying to get away with wearing their hair that way"? Or whatever petty circumstance you would care to name. The Mennonites around here all paint their houses white with green trim. No one would dare paint their trim blue. If you think you're immune to this, how do you feel about piercings or pink streaked hair or automobile subwoofers? automotible subwoofers should be burned at the stake. Or at the dump....either way works for me.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 25, 2013 18:29:47 GMT -5
All those things are true, but I also think that a 'sense of belonging' has a very dark side. Some of it is, "who does he think he (or she) is, trying to get away with wearing their hair that way"? Or whatever petty circumstance you would care to name. The Mennonites around here all paint their houses white with green trim. No one would dare paint their trim blue. If you think you're immune to this, how do you feel about piercings or pink streaked hair or automobile subwoofers? Not quite sure what you mean, "what"
If you mean that I think the older generation would like to control the younger generation's piercings or pink streaked hair, no, I don't think that we need to control that- doesn't bother me at all.
In fact I noticed a "band-aid" on one of the young checker's eyebrows at Kroger & it was always there. It finally dawned on me that it was covering a ring on her eyebrow. I asked her if that Kroger made her cover it. When She said that they did, I thought that was so unnecessary & "big brother" attitude by Kroger!
They didn't make any older women covering their ear-rings!
It is all a way of trying to control people, especially the younger generation so they will "fit in" someone elses ideas!
Now , the subwoofers, that is a different story! I don't mind them either if they just don't get so close to me that they ruin my hearing!
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Post by faune on May 25, 2013 18:39:36 GMT -5
The contradictions and illiteracies of the New Testament have filled up many books by eminent scholars, and have never been explained by any Christian authority except in the feeblest terms of "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith." This feebleness derives from the fact that until recently, Christians could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions. Christopher Higgens, God is Not Great, p.115Was wondering if you might have meant Christopher Hitchens instead of Christopher Higgens? I know Christopher Hitchens wrote a book "god is not Great" in 2009. Yknot ~ You beat me to asking the same question. Reading the history of the Church down through the ages and all the atrocities that were done in the name of Orthodox Christianity was an eye opener recently! For sure, the hierarchy in the church got pretty far from what Jesus lived and taught in the very beginning. Nothing like man-made religion with all its dogma, huh?
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Post by snow on May 25, 2013 22:15:53 GMT -5
Hmmm seems we're all unanimous on the subwoofers! The whole house seems to shake when one goes by, how can they actually be in the car!
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Post by Greg on May 25, 2013 22:21:40 GMT -5
Hmmm seems we're all unanimous on the subwoofers! The whole house seems to shake when one goes by, how can they actually be in the car! I've heard from a audio salesperson (store owner) that the boom from the subwoofers does not happen within a few feet of the speakers. I do not recall the distance from the speakers before the sound starts booming.
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Post by snow on May 25, 2013 22:49:17 GMT -5
Hmmm seems we're all unanimous on the subwoofers! The whole house seems to shake when one goes by, how can they actually be in the car! I've heard from a audio salesperson (store owner) that the boom from the subwoofers does not happen within a few feet of the speakers. I do not recall the distance from the speakers before the sound starts booming. Well that explains how they can be in the car then. Yay, it's just the rest of us that have our eardrums burst!
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Post by quizzer on May 26, 2013 5:44:19 GMT -5
All those things are true, but I also think that a 'sense of belonging' has a very dark side. Some of it is, "who does he think he (or she) is, trying to get away with wearing their hair that way"? Or whatever petty circumstance you would care to name. The Mennonites around here all paint their houses white with green trim. No one would dare paint their trim blue. If you think you're immune to this, how do you feel about piercings or pink streaked hair or automobile subwoofers? Yeah, it's the "position" you have with the 2x2s that matters the most in the meetings. Funny thing, by creating the hierarchy within the meetings, it's tougher for newbies to grasp or even want to participate. With the lower birthrates, you have a situation where you want your "place," but your "place" is tougher to recognize because there aren't that many to care about your "position" or even able to acknowledge it.
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Post by stargazer on May 26, 2013 10:19:52 GMT -5
am I getting this right? Sub woofers are now a metaphor for staying in our place?
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Post by Greg on May 26, 2013 10:42:54 GMT -5
All those things are true, but I also think that a 'sense of belonging' has a very dark side. Some of it is, "who does he think he (or she) is, trying to get away with wearing their hair that way"? Or whatever petty circumstance you would care to name. The Mennonites around here all paint their houses white with green trim. No one would dare paint their trim blue. If you think you're immune to this, how do you feel about piercings or pink streaked hair or automobile subwoofers? Yeah, it's the "position" you have with the 2x2s that matters the most in the meetings. Funny thing, by creating the hierarchy within the meetings, it's tougher for newbies to grasp or even want to participate. With the lower birthrates, you have a situation where you want your "place," but your "place" is tougher to recognize because there aren't that many to care about your "position" or even able to acknowledge it. Maybe the place is tough to recognize and cannot be acknowledge because it really isn't there and no one really cares about any fictional place or position.
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