|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5
Sacredotal, After his near death experience (NDE), Colton was shown many pictures of Jesus--and asked if this was what Jesus looked like. He said no to all of them until they showed him the one I posted above. First off, rest assured that I am not trying to convince you of the validity of NDEs. There are believers and non-believers. Second, you have assumed some things about the 4 yr old boy Colton, his experience and his parents, etc. without reading the book firsthand. As a father many times over, I am sure you could easily imagine yourself in the place of the parents in their agony having a child seriously ill and Drs. being unable to determine the problem. And imagine your child making the occasional unusual comments Colton makes when he recovers. What would you as a parent make of his comments? Third - yes, another totally unrelated party is making money off the picture of Jesus drawn by another unusual child artist. This is a separate issue entirely from Colton's experience. Sac, it's not like you to render judgment without checking things out thoroughly...and its also not like you not to gather a good representative sample before doing so. However, it maybe that you have done so, without giving us your source material. May I suggest that you read the short book Heaven is for Real and report back? CK PS Snow, due to your urging, I will take a look at the thread Dying to be Me, Anita Moorjani. Cherie, Like I wrote, my BS meter goes off when children are used to promote the selling of an idea or an object. Especially sick and dying children. Especially sick and dying children that are orphans. . . being sold into slavery to work in the salt mines. . . . while only giving one cold meal of gruel a day. . . and whipped for being too nice. . . etc. This is the same BS that those infomercials use to get you to give only $10 a day to feed a child in Africa. Or to give $10 a day to feed a starving kitty. Usually $9 goes to administrative costs, the other $1 might make it to actually help the child. In other words, I am skeptical. I did not write that it didn't happen. I will not be reading the book, the story doesn't interest me at this moment. I have read the non-fiction book Spook by Mary Roach. She is explores NDE (near death experiences) in that book. I also recommend her book Stiff, which is about the history of cadavers. Neither book is morbid and very well researched and documented. Example, SharomW made a point of saying that the painting was by a "young child"". Great. So what. She was a talented 6 year old at that time of the painting. She is no longer a young child. But what does that have to do with the portrait- nothing. She was featured on Oprah, CNN, and got a great deal of other publicity. I wish her well. It sort of reminds me of the late Thomas Kincade, who found that Christians will gobble up stuff like this- just add a dash of mysticism or the supernatural, and voila- instant Christian gold. The poor suckers that invested in Thomas Kincade galleries learned that even Christian businessmen may not be so Christian: "Former gallery dealers also charged that Kinkade uses Christianity as a tool to take advantage of people. "They really knew how to bait the hook," said one ex-dealer who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They certainly used the Christian hook."[33] One former dealer's lawyer stated "Most of my clients got involved with Kinkade because it was presented as a religious opportunity. Being defrauded is awful enough, but doing it in the name of God is really despicable."[34] On June 2, 2010, Pacific Metro, the artist's production company, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, one day after defaulting on a $1 million court imposed payment to the aforementioned Karen Hazlewood and Jeffrey Spinello.[30] A $500,000 payment had previously been disbursed." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_KinkadeI hope the young artist that you featured has good advisers. She is talented. Her art doesn't appeal to me, but neither did Kincade's and he was the most successful artist in the United States for a few years.It is probably my 2x2 upbringing, but I don't like seeing Christ made into merchandise and sold at that altar of greed. Thanks for the info on Kincade's shady deals.
Any discerning person could see that he worked the Christian motif to the fullest for money.- His faithful adoring public ate up his work.
It was quite easy to see why.
People like to see nice, warm, fuzzy stuff- if they can see a Christian motif in it all the better.
I knew he was an opportunist but didn't know he was also a fraud!
I just thought that he had very good publicity agents! ;D
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2013 16:11:50 GMT -5
S PS Snow, due to your urging, I will take a look at the thread Dying to be Me, Anita Moorjani. Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. I do not doubt that these people actually have these NDE's, only how they interpret them as their "minds" being out side their bodies!
They ignore that is has anything to do with a physical manifestation of how their brain is working under stress!
They piece together bits of what happens until it makes sense. (to them)
I 'm not imply that this is intentional.
That is one function of the brain, to make sense out of what seems senseless!
(Behold all the religious beliefs people have and why they develop them? To make sense of their world that so often seems senseless.)
Surely one doesn't believe that person on the street who is talking to themselves because they are hallucinating-, surely no one believes that person's mind is outside of their brain?
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Mar 25, 2013 16:48:42 GMT -5
Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. I do not doubt that these people actually have these NDE's, only how they interpret them as their "minds" being out side their bodies!
They ignore that is has anything to do with a physical manifestation of how their brain is working under stress!
They piece together bits of what happens until it makes sense. (to them)
I 'm not imply that this is intentional.
That is one function of the brain, to make sense out of what seems senseless!
(Behold all the religious beliefs people have and why they develop them? To make sense of their world that so often seems senseless.)
Surely one doesn't believe that person on the street who is talking to themselves because they are hallucinating-, surely no one believes that person's mind is outside of their brain?
Hi dmmichgood, I think that your would really enjoy Mary Roach's book Spook which researches NDE and other supernatural phenomenon that people claim to have. It is fascinating.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 25, 2013 17:29:55 GMT -5
Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. I do not doubt that these people actually have these NDE's, only how they interpret them as their "minds" being out side their bodies!
They ignore that is has anything to do with a physical manifestation of how their brain is working under stress!
They piece together bits of what happens until it makes sense. (to them)
I 'm not imply that this is intentional.
That is one function of the brain, to make sense out of what seems senseless!
(Behold all the religious beliefs people have and why they develop them? To make sense of their world that so often seems senseless.)
Surely one doesn't believe that person on the street who is talking to themselves because they are hallucinating-, surely no one believes that person's mind is outside of their brain?
That's just the point. After reading Jill Bolte Taylor's account of her stroke, I couldn't help but see the similarities between her experience and an NDE experience. She didn't die but had her left hemisphere shut down and she experienced the world only from the right hemisphere. So they could very easily be a stressed brain trying to make sense of things.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 25, 2013 17:31:55 GMT -5
I do not doubt that these people actually have these NDE's, only how they interpret them as their "minds" being out side their bodies!
They ignore that is has anything to do with a physical manifestation of how their brain is working under stress!
They piece together bits of what happens until it makes sense. (to them)
I 'm not imply that this is intentional.
That is one function of the brain, to make sense out of what seems senseless!
(Behold all the religious beliefs people have and why they develop them? To make sense of their world that so often seems senseless.)
Surely one doesn't believe that person on the street who is talking to themselves because they are hallucinating-, surely no one believes that person's mind is outside of their brain?
Hi dmmichgood, I think that your would really enjoy Mary Roach's book Spook which researches NDE and other supernatural phenomenon that people claim to have. It is fascinating. Another book that takes a good look at them is 'The Big Book of Near Death Experiences' by PMH Asweet thinger. Both sides state their reasons for or against the experience being a glimpse of the 'afterlife'.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2013 18:48:16 GMT -5
I do not doubt that these people actually have these NDE's, only how they interpret them as their "minds" being out side their bodies!
They ignore that is has anything to do with a physical manifestation of how their brain is working under stress!
They piece together bits of what happens until it makes sense. (to them)
I 'm not imply that this is intentional.
That is one function of the brain, to make sense out of what seems senseless!
(Behold all the religious beliefs people have and why they develop them? To make sense of their world that so often seems senseless.)
Surely one doesn't believe that person on the street who is talking to themselves because they are hallucinating-, surely no one believes that person's mind is outside of their brain?
Hi dmmichgood, I think that your would really enjoy Mary Roach's book Spook which researches NDE and other supernatural phenomenon that people claim to have. It is fascinating. Thanks, I just ordered it.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2013 18:49:46 GMT -5
Hi dmmichgood, I think that your would really enjoy Mary Roach's book Spook which researches NDE and other supernatural phenomenon that people claim to have. It is fascinating. Another book that takes a good look at them is 'The Big Book of Near Death Experiences' by PMH Asweet thinger. Both sides state their reasons for or against the experience being a glimpse of the 'afterlife'. Thanks snow, I'll check that out also.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 25, 2013 21:51:21 GMT -5
Another book that takes a good look at them is 'The Big Book of Near Death Experiences' by PMH Asweet thinger. Both sides state their reasons for or against the experience being a glimpse of the 'afterlife'. Thanks snow, I'll check that out also. Her last name is A t w a t e r. Not sure how it came out Asweet thinger! What's up with that!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 22:05:14 GMT -5
Thanks snow, I'll check that out also. Her last name is A t w a t e r. Not sure how it came out Asweet thinger! What's up with that!! Your mind is as pure as snow.
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Mar 25, 2013 22:31:35 GMT -5
Did Christ Look Christian?
[/size] I have never found Christians to be defined as how they look, but rather how they act. In that respect, I guess I couldn't personally tell you what a Christian looks like...... [/quote] Exactly, post of the day.[/quote] So this is the answer for your question, SAC? Does Jesus Look Christian? and it comes down to the fact how He acts? I know, like Scott, that finding a Chrisitian is by their way they live and work and love their fellow man... But maybe if we discuss what Jesus was "looking" at, then maybe we can answer your question more sensible! Yes, Jesus was Christian in His looking....
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 25, 2013 22:36:34 GMT -5
Her last name is A t w a t e r. Not sure how it came out Asweet thinger! What's up with that!! Your mind is as pure as snow. LOL, oh my...
|
|
|
Post by emy on Mar 25, 2013 22:47:16 GMT -5
Your mind is as pure as snow. LOL, oh my... You got it? (If not, check the letters that were replaced in the name! )
|
|
|
Post by faune on Mar 25, 2013 23:08:43 GMT -5
S PS Snow, due to your urging, I will take a look at the thread Dying to be Me, Anita Moorjani. Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. Snow ~ Since following the thread, I'm more convinced of the possibility of NDE's than before. I realize many sound fake, but hers really has a genuine ring to it and I found her video interviews very interesting to watch. She surely doesn't sound like any fraud to me. I would love to meet her, too, as she sounds likes a fascinating person with quite a story to tell.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2013 0:12:24 GMT -5
Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. Snow ~ Since following the thread, I'm more convinced of the possibility of NDE's than before. I realize many sound fake, but hers really has a genuine ring to it and I found her video interviews very interesting to watch. She surely doesn't sound like any fraud to me. I would love to meet her, too, as she sounds likes a fascinating person with quite a story to tell. I doubt that many of these people are frauds! They have these experiences no doubt- but do they have a glimpse of an after life?
No, their brain is just shutting down. (We need to keep reminding ourselves that these are "NEAR death experiences!" They never died- or they wouldn't be back here writing books & giving lectures!)
It is interesting that so many of them have the same KIND of experience; tunnels, lights at the end, meeting family long dead, seeing themselves looking down at their bodies, such peace that they want to go on, but someone telling it isn't their time yet-they should go back- they have something left to do in life, etc.
Not all have all the same experiences, but many do.
The only time that I ever fainted I had some childhood decease, measles maybe, and I was so miserable.
When I came to from the fainting spell my mother was crying and I thought why is she crying?
I felt wonderful- so much better than I had before!
I really don't know why I fainted unless my body just couldn't stand any more misery so my brain told it to take a rest & decided to faint! ;D
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Mar 26, 2013 8:28:30 GMT -5
Exactly, post of the day. So this is the answer for your question, SAC? Does Jesus Look Christian? and it comes down to the fact how He acts? I know, like Scott, that finding a Chrisitian is by their way they live and work and love their fellow man... But maybe if we discuss what Jesus was "looking" at, then maybe we can answer your question more sensible! Yes, Jesus was Christian in His looking.... Sharon, Rational already spotted and commented on the intent of my post.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 11:39:13 GMT -5
You got it? (If not, check the letters that were replaced in the name! ) Yes I got it and find what it was changed to amusing!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 11:47:31 GMT -5
Snow ~ Since following the thread, I'm more convinced of the possibility of NDE's than before. I realize many sound fake, but hers really has a genuine ring to it and I found her video interviews very interesting to watch. She surely doesn't sound like any fraud to me. I would love to meet her, too, as she sounds likes a fascinating person with quite a story to tell. I doubt that many of these people are frauds! They have these experiences no doubt- but do they have a glimpse of an after life?
No, their brain is just shutting down. (We need to keep reminding ourselves that these are "NEAR death experiences!" They never died- or they wouldn't be back here writing books & giving lectures!)
It is interesting that so many of them have the same KIND of experience; tunnels, lights at the end, meeting family long dead, seeing themselves looking down at their bodies, such peace that they want to go on, but someone telling it isn't their time yet-they should go back- they have something left to do in life, etc.
Not all have all the same experiences, but many do.
The only time that I ever fainted I had some childhood decease, measles maybe, and I was so miserable.
When I came to from the fainting spell my mother was crying and I thought why is she crying?
I felt wonderful- so much better than I had before!
I really don't know why I fainted unless my body just couldn't stand any more misery so my brain told it to take a rest & decided to faint! ;DIt definitely could be the brains way of protecting itself too. I had mononucleosis and severe strep throat when I was 16 and I was in and out of consciousness for about 3 days. I remember it being a place where nothing bothered me. It also seemed like a continuous 'movie' was playing with sometimes really ugly scenes, but they didn't bother me and I remember wondering why, because they really should have. But the brain had done this because of the pain I was in I guess. The strep throat was so painful that when I swallowed I would regain consciousness momentarily and then drift off again. I think when the brain is stressed it does whatever it can to keep itself sane, possibly? However, I also fainted a lot as a kid because of low blood pressure. During those times, I never saw or felt anything and it was not a good experience. I remember not liking them one bit.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 11:49:29 GMT -5
Good, my sister in law saw her Friday night in Phoenix and was impressed by her. Said she had a very calming effect on people that you don't see too often. I have read her book, and some interviews, but I have never met her. I would definitely believe that she believes she's had some kind of an experience, just don't know myself what to think of them. Snow ~ Since following the thread, I'm more convinced of the possibility of NDE's than before. I realize many sound fake, but hers really has a genuine ring to it and I found her video interviews very interesting to watch. She surely doesn't sound like any fraud to me. I would love to meet her, too, as she sounds likes a fascinating person with quite a story to tell. Yes, I wish I could have still been there and gone to see her too. She sounds like she learned some important things even if it wasn't an 'afterlife' experience. These experiences could be quite life changing for the better and that's a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 26, 2013 14:19:40 GMT -5
These experiences could be quite life changing for the better and that's a good thing. And provide a source of income! BONUS!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 16:03:21 GMT -5
These experiences could be quite life changing for the better and that's a good thing. And provide a source of income! BONUS! Is there something wrong with sharing a good message and being reimbursed for your travel and expenses? If she can get more people loving themselves a bit more than more power to her. She doesn't get paid huge bucks to tell her story and most of the time it's someone else asking her to come and do that.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2013 17:31:17 GMT -5
You got it? (If not, check the letters that were replaced in the name! ) I finally "got" it- took awhile- I must be slipping in my dotage!
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Mar 26, 2013 17:58:28 GMT -5
May I suggest that you read the short book Heaven is for Real and report back? This was discussed briefly in another thread. I read the book and was not impressed by the "arguments" for the existence of heaven. I like Sam Harris' rebuttal: www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heavenThis includes a link to the original article by Eben Alexander.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 18:15:19 GMT -5
May I suggest that you read the short book Heaven is for Real and report back? This was discussed briefly in another thread. I read the book and was not impressed by the "arguments" for the existence of heaven. I like Sam Harris' rebuttal: www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heavenThis includes a link to the original article by Eben Alexander. Not sure if you are getting the two mixed up, so I am just letting you know that one book, Heaven is For Real was not written by Eben Alexander but by a young boy. Here is the link to his book. www.amazon.ca/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158Eben Alexander wrote Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife and that was the one Sam Harris did a debunking on. If you knew this and I misunderstood, just ignore and I apologize.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Mar 26, 2013 18:28:21 GMT -5
This was discussed briefly in another thread. I read the book and was not impressed by the "arguments" for the existence of heaven. I like Sam Harris' rebuttal: www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heavenThis includes a link to the original article by Eben Alexander. Not sure if you are getting the two mixed up, so I am just letting you know that one book, Heaven is For Real was not written by Eben Alexander but by a young boy. Here is the link to his book. www.amazon.ca/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158Eben Alexander wrote Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife and that was the one Sam Harris did a debunking on. If you knew this and I misunderstood, just ignore and I apologize. I was mistaken about the book reference...thanks for correcting it!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 26, 2013 20:43:11 GMT -5
Is there something wrong with sharing a good message and being reimbursed for your travel and expenses? Of course not. If she can get people to pay her to tell what she believes happened she should while they are still willing to pay.Do you know what her speaking fee is?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 26, 2013 21:20:11 GMT -5
Is there something wrong with sharing a good message and being reimbursed for your travel and expenses? Of course not. If she can get people to pay her to tell what she believes happened she should while they are still willing to pay.Do you know what her speaking fee is? People seem to really like her and she resonates with them. I don't imagine they'll be asking her over and over once her story has been told. She travels from Hong Kong so she needs to have some kind of reimbursement for expenses. I don't think 20 dollars is out of line. Here is what was written for the event my sister in law attended at the Unity Church in Phoenix: Anita Moorjani – “Dying to Be Me” Friday, March 22 7 to 9 p.m. • Sanctuary Tickets Available at the Door Anita Moorjani Friday, March 22 After battling cancer for almout four years, Anita Moorjani’s body began shutting down. As her organs failed, she entered into an extraordinary near-death experience in which she realized her inherent worth and the actual cause of her disease. Upon regaining consciousness, Anita’s condition had so rapidly improved that she was able to be released from the hospital within weeks, without a trace of cancer in her body! Join Anita as she recounts her near death experience and the epiphanies it provided: that she had the power to heal herself, and that there are miracles in the universe that she had never imagined. She will share all she has learned about healing, fear, “being love,” the magnificence of every human being … and that we are all One! Tickets: $20 Available at the Door
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Mar 26, 2013 21:38:19 GMT -5
Snow ~ Since following the thread, I'm more convinced of the possibility of NDE's than before. I realize many sound fake, but hers really has a genuine ring to it and I found her video interviews very interesting to watch. She surely doesn't sound like any fraud to me. I would love to meet her, too, as she sounds likes a fascinating person with quite a story to tell. I doubt that many of these people are frauds! They have these experiences no doubt- but do they have a glimpse of an after life?
No, their brain is just shutting down. (We need to keep reminding ourselves that these are "NEAR death experiences!" They never died- or they wouldn't be back here writing books & giving lectures!)
It is interesting that so many of them have the same KIND of experience; tunnels, lights at the end, meeting family long dead, seeing themselves looking down at their bodies, such peace that they want to go on, but someone telling it isn't their time yet-they should go back- they have something left to do in life, etc.
Not all have all the same experiences, but many do.
The only time that I ever fainted I had some childhood decease, measles maybe, and I was so miserable.
When I came to from the fainting spell my mother was crying and I thought why is she crying?
I felt wonderful- so much better than I had before!
I really don't know why I fainted unless my body just couldn't stand any more misery so my brain told it to take a rest & decided to faint! ;DMy brain didn't shut down....I had sense enough to pull the nurses' call button out of the wall and I knew exactly what time the clock said(and did remember that time for a lont time). But at the same time I was moving away from all that I knew and saw daily, right on into an exceptional light..it was a very pretty fluorescent blue light like one would expect to find for royalty perhaps, etc...that is in color. So NDE's do happen, and they are likely to have happened as a person say they do and it isn't necessarily a "mind shutting down" for many times there's more on their mind then ever before!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 26, 2013 22:30:15 GMT -5
I don't think 20 dollars is out of line. Sounds like a fair priceHere is the problem - what was the actual cause of her disease? She was magically "cured" after being in the hospital for weeks. Who's responsible if a person with cancer stops treatment?
|
|