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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 7:32:44 GMT -5
I can't believe that I used to think that the workers were "moved by the Spirit" as to where workers would be placed. I used to really believe that. And then I learned. . . that that isn't entirely the process. . . there is also a political process involved. . . . just as with the selection of the Pope. And, just as with the Pope, the worker's will tell you that "God is directing" and "appointing". OK, then why the need for a 2/3rds majority of men's opinion in the matter? Or maybe, the issue is 1/3rd of the Catholic Cardinals are not in sync with God's desire. . . while the other 2/3rds are?
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Post by placid-void on Mar 13, 2013 8:43:29 GMT -5
I can't believe that I used to think that the workers were "moved by the Spirit" as to where workers would be placed. I used to really believe that. And then I learned. . . that that isn't entirely the process. . . there is also a political process involved. . . . just as with the selection of the Pope. And, just as with the Pope, the worker's will tell you that "God is directing" and "appointing". OK, then why the need for a 2/3rds majority of men's opinion in the matter? Or maybe, the issue is 1/3rd of the Catholic Cardinals are not in sync with God's desire. . . while the other 2/3rds are? Tiresome. Those interested in a slightly more nuanced reflection on the proceedings might consider Peggy Noonan's blog this morning in the WSJ: The exciting thing is the confounding thing: To a degree I’ve never seen before, nobody knows who the next pope will be. All my smart Catholic friends who tend to have a sense of what’s coming or a good read of the lay of the land—they don’t have a clue. Eight years ago I thought it was Joseph Ratzinger and said so, as he gave his great homily John Paul II’s funeral, to a friend. This time I have no idea. I don’t think the cardinals themselves have any idea. There’s a broad sense that this could be a time of wild cards, of amazing turns and surprises bigger than the normal surprise. This morning I thought, as I watched the cardinals enter St. Peter’s on TV, that the conclave has been marked and even misshapen by the fact that they are not mourning the death of a pope. Normally they’d be in some sort of at least formal mourning as they begin to choose a new pontiff. And mourning isn’t just a feeling; it does something to you—it sobers, it grounds and stills. It forces you to know that you are in history. I have found myself thinking about that moment during John Paul II’s funeral when he was carried out to the steps of the cathedral and put before the people. A big Bible was placed on top of his plain casket, and a wind suddenly came up and turned the pages—page after page, as if turned by an unseen hand. The whole world saw it on TV, and no one could have seen it without having a feeling of the divine, of the supernatural. It bestowed a sense of Godness, and it would have reminded every cardinal there of the realness of history and the gravity of their choice. God had brought the cardinals to Rome to choose, in their mourning, John Paul’s successor. Now they’re called to Rome because an 85-year-old man retired. He has all his marbles, as they say in the DSM, and can still stand straight, so even taking into account his age, the pains and limits of it, it seemed a decision made by a man—a worldly decision—that brought them there. It seems to me the absence of mourning has left things strange, and contributed to the air of Anything Can Happen. Which also prompts the question: Is it good that anything can happen? There is a sense too, at least among American Catholics I talk to, that this is in some new way a crucial moment for the church, even though we don’t understand or cannot name exactly why. It’s not only The Scandals, the Vatican bank, that source of half a century’s rumors, or Vatileaks. It’s not only the three cardinals who reportedly made a dossier on the last, bound in red leather and locked away like the third secret of Fatima for the next pope’s perusal. Those cardinals—again, reportedly—wrote of rivalries and ambitions. But what exactly does that mean? Who are the rivals and what are they fighting over? Ambitions for what, to do what? We are all wondering about this. Anyway, I talk to a lot of Catholics who are publicly sanguine and privately unsettled. All this is at odds with the burly bonhomie shown in public by those such as New York’s Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who in his few days in Rome has always been seen laughing and reaching out, joking and teasing. It’s a good thing to see. I want to feel the way he seems to feel. Maybe by the end of the conclave I will. Two thoughts: The first is that we’re all talking about a possible American pope, or a Canadian, or a South American or Central American, or an African, an Asian. God bless them all, we’ll see. But a church whose cardinals might be feeling an almost primal longing for stability in an uncertain world—I don’t know that they are, but at least some would be feeling some tug toward the more coherent past—might make a choice whose headline would be “The Empire Strikes Back.” Meaning an Italian. There hasn’t been an Italian pope in 35 years. Before that they ran the papacy for almost forever and it all sort of worked out, or at least the church is still here. The Italian cardinals have a number of highly regarded papabili, such as Gianfranco Ravasi. You might say “No, that won’t do, that’s the old world.” But maybe everything old is new again; an Italian would be new again. The second is that there’s a lot of ignorant, tendentious and even aggressive media chatter about the church right now, and it’s starting to grate. Church observers are blabbering away on cable and network news telling the church to get with the program, throwing around words like “gender” and “celibacy” and “pedophile” and phrases like “irrelevant to the modern world.” I wouldn’t presume to tell Baptists or Lutherans or Orthodox Jews how they should interpret their own theology, what traditions to discard and what new ones to adopt, what root understandings are no longer pertinent. It would be presumptuous, and also deeply impolite in a civic sense. The world I came up in had some virtues, and one was that we gave each other a little more space, a little more courtesy both as individuals and organizations, never mind faiths. That kind of public courtesy is what has allowed America, with all its sharp-elbowed angers and disagreements, to operate. Right now every idiot in town feels free to tell the church to get hopping, and they do it in a new way, with a baldness that occasionally borders on the insulting. Whatever their faith or lack of it they feel free to critique loudly and in depth, to the degree they are capable of depth. I have been critical of the church over the sex scandals for longer than a decade. Here’s one column—but I write of it because I love it and seek to see it healthy, growing and vital as it brings Christ into the world. Some of the church’s critics don’t seem to be operating from affection and respect but something else, or some things else. When critics mean to be constructive, they bring an air of due esteem and occasional sadness to their criticisms, and offer informed and thoughtful suggestions as to ways the old church might right itself. They might even note, with an air of gratitude free of crowd-pleasing sanctimony, that critics must, in fairness, speak of those parts of the church that most famously work—the schools that teach America’s immigrants, the charities, the long embrace of the most vulnerable—and outweigh a whole world of immediate criticisms. But when they just prattle on with their indignant words—gender, celibacy, irrelevant—well, they’re probably not trying to be constructive. One might say they’re being vulgar, ignorant and destructive, spoiled too. They think they’re brave, or outspoken, or something. They don’t have enough insight into themselves to notice they’d never presume to instruct other great faiths. It doesn’t cross their minds that if they were as dismissive about some of those faiths they’d have to hire private security guards. I once read an account of Anne Boleyn’s death. In the moments after she was beheaded her head was held aloft by her executioner, to show the crowd. Her nervous system was shocked, her neurons misfired, her head didn’t know it was severed from her neck. Her eyes blinked, her mouth moved crazily. Those critics who go on TV now to tear down what they don’t even understand: they are removed and unknowing. They are Anne Boleyn’s head.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 8:51:02 GMT -5
yknot, Thx for posting something worth reading on the subject.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 9:32:13 GMT -5
Isn't the conclave like what the bible called "casting lots"?
I have to wonder how many of the favored cardinals want to be pope? It would take a pretty tall man to fill the needed shoes and I'm not talking about physical height.
Again as it's mentioned, this conclave is set in a different emotional air then most conclaves are set....the previous ones were so long ago that there isn't anyone to tell how they made it through the conclave with a united vote.....but I feel that as long as the cardinals keep the first two commandments in their minds and hearts, that the correct cardinal will be voted in as pope.
I'm not Catholic, but I don't wish any bad things upon the Catholic church as they face these uncertain times. I have felt like the 2x2 workers could have taken lessons from those things that have been a public disclosure in regarding the CSA that's been hidden in the priesthood...and that it's also been hidden in the 2x2 workership.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 10:03:23 GMT -5
I agree, yknot. The hypocrisy is tiresome. You do know, that, Peggy Noonan is the author of John Paul The Great: Remembering a Spiritual Father and is Roman Catholic? Instead of closing her opinion piece with an illustration of Anne Boleyn's head- perhaps she could have remembered the thousands of martyrs that were killed by her Holy Fathers. Her article seems to be in anger about people talking about her beloved church: "The second is that there’s a lot of ignorant, tendentious and even aggressive media chatter about the church right now, and it’s starting to grate. Church observers are blabbering away on cable and network news telling the church to get with the program, throwing around words like “gender” and “celibacy” and “pedophile” and phrases like “irrelevant to the modern world.” " Uh, Peggy, the church creates the issues about "gender", "celibacy". It is called policy/doctrine. And they have not properly dealt with "pedophiles" or blatant homosexuality within their ranks- even with their Cardinals (it is an issue because they proclaim to be celibate). What do you want the media to talk about? How glorious your wonderful church is? Do you say the same about the Cardinals who are also asking the same questions and "creating issues about gender and celibacy"? Or, are those the "false" Cardinals? Me thinks you aren't as good at spinning as you once were. I really liked your speeches that you wrote for Reagan. Maybe the Pope can hire you. I hear that the Catholic Church has money. Meanwhile, yknot, your post did not respond to the idea that the Catholics proclaim that the "Pope is appointed by God" but in reality elected by a political process. I think that showing the daily results of the Papal election process is quite ironic- it really is a smoke screen of hot air.
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 13, 2013 10:41:37 GMT -5
yknot, Thx for posting something worth reading on the subject. ditto ken
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2013 11:41:55 GMT -5
I have to wonder how many of the favored cardinals want to be pope? It would take a pretty tall man to fill the needed shoes and I'm not talking about physical height. I don't know. I think one could ask a similar question about the job of President of the United States; there have been plenty of candidates, including more than one candidate at a time claiming they have been called by God to run for the office. I assume there are plenty of cardinals, favored or otherwise, who would like to be Pope.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 13, 2013 15:04:02 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.
What a forked tongue idea that is!
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 15:39:56 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.What a forked tongue idea that is! Speaking of forked tongues, it is interesting to me that the new Pope's parents were Italian, but he is being hailed for being from the "New World". Ha! He speaks fluent Italian, is from Italian parents, lived a long time in Italy, etc. But at least he was born in Argentina. I would have been more impressed if they had named a true native of South America or Africa or Asia as the new Pope. As it is, the good ole boy network appears alive and well. Ciao.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 15:42:04 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.What a forked tongue idea that is! It is better for the child to be born and die- and be granted a place in heaven, than for the parents to commit a mortal sin and lose their place in heaven. You just have to use Catholic logic (oops- that is an oxymoron).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 16:19:40 GMT -5
I can't believe that I used to think that the workers were "moved by the Spirit" as to where workers would be placed. I used to really believe that. And then I learned. . . that that isn't entirely the process. . . there is also a political process involved. . . . just as with the selection of the Pope. And, just as with the Pope, the worker's will tell you that "God is directing" and "appointing". OK, then why the need for a 2/3rds majority of men's opinion in the matter? Or maybe, the issue is 1/3rd of the Catholic Cardinals are not in sync with God's desire. . . while the other 2/3rds are? I can accept that you don't believe that God intervenes in the appointment of workers to their fields or the appointment of popes. However the question then becomes whether you believe that God intervenes in the world at all? If you do believe that God intervenes in the world then perhaps this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate how he intervenes by providing an example of God's intervention which has more evidence to support it than the claims made by the workers and the Catholic Church. Matt10
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Post by ts on Mar 13, 2013 18:11:33 GMT -5
I can't believe that I used to think that the workers were "moved by the Spirit" as to where workers would be placed. I used to really believe that. And then I learned. . . that that isn't entirely the process. . . there is also a political process involved. . . . just as with the selection of the Pope. And, just as with the Pope, the worker's will tell you that "God is directing" and "appointing". OK, then why the need for a 2/3rds majority of men's opinion in the matter? Or maybe, the issue is 1/3rd of the Catholic Cardinals are not in sync with God's desire. . . while the other 2/3rds are? Back when I was on the TN staff and Frank Porter was overseer(briefly), Frank was really doing some crazy things. A botched baptism and all sorts of throwing his weight and authority around and not really doing anything worthwhile. Sam McCracken had brought Frank in from Illinois to replace Albert Knaggs(an awesome overseer) for some political reasons. Albert got sent off and demoted from overseer. So, Frank was proving that he really wasn't the man for the job and was largely an embarrassment to Sam. I was in the car with Sam when he was musing over what to do with Frank. He said, "I will send him to Maine to be with Roger Cleveland and see how he likes that - Heeh! Roger really knows how to get on your nerves." And that is exactly what happened. Now, was Sam moved by the Holy Spirit? Do you think that is the only time Sam messed with someone's life out of spite and did so gleefully? Do you think that him telling me this "in confidence" was a way of getting me to understand that he can do just about anything he wants to do to mess with your life if you don't ask "how high?" when he says "jump"? Sam used this control tactic a lot on his staff.
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Post by snow on Mar 13, 2013 18:19:14 GMT -5
Well ts, I think it's pretty obvious god had nothing to do with the decisions in these churches. If he did I don't think there would need to be a vote or overseers allowing people to be workers. God would tell the person he wanted to be pope/worker to go and tell everyone that he was the next pope/worker and because it was god's will everyone would know that this was true and that would be that. He would be pope/worker. But we must play the game that god is guiding it seems. I don't mind that they're playing the game as much as I mind the deception. However, it is more confirmation that if anything on earth is to get done, it must be done by humankind.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 18:52:11 GMT -5
If you do believe that God intervenes in the world then perhaps this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate how he intervenes by providing an example of God's intervention which has more evidence to support it than the claims made by the workers and the Catholic Church. Matt10 Love.
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Post by snow on Mar 13, 2013 18:57:48 GMT -5
If you do believe that God intervenes in the world then perhaps this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate how he intervenes by providing an example of God's intervention which has more evidence to support it than the claims made by the workers and the Catholic Church. Matt10 Love. Love is perfect for making a better world. How can we be sure it has anything to do with God though. I ask this quite seriously. I really struggle with the fact that I see nothing in this world that points to there being a God. Each time there is a good deed done, it has always been a human that did it. At least as far as I can see.
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 13, 2013 19:01:18 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.What a forked tongue idea that is! It is better for the child to be born and die- and be granted a place in heaven, than for the parents to commit a mortal sin and lose their place in heaven. You just have to use Catholic logic (oops- that is an oxymoron). sacerdotal Is there a purpose in your negative comments about catholics or is just the 2x2 training coming out? ken
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Post by ts on Mar 13, 2013 19:13:43 GMT -5
It is better for the child to be born and die- and be granted a place in heaven, than for the parents to commit a mortal sin and lose their place in heaven. You just have to use Catholic logic (oops- that is an oxymoron). sacerdotal Is there a purpose in your negative comments about catholics or is just the 2x2 training coming out? ken It sounds like sacerdotal is going contrary to 2x2 training, actually. He is not making negative comments about Catholics or 2x2s. He is making comments about the negative actions and attitudes that the Catholics and 2x2s set up themselves. It is not BEING negative to notice that they are doing something that is detrimental to people's faith(and detrimental in many other ways, too).
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Post by fixit on Mar 13, 2013 19:18:05 GMT -5
Love is perfect for making a better world. How can we be sure it has anything to do with God though. I ask this quite seriously. I really struggle with the fact that I see nothing in this world that points to there being a God. Each time there is a good deed done, it has always been a human that did it. At least as far as I can see. Psalm 19 The Message (MSG) A David Psalm 19 1-2 God’s glory is on tour in the skies, God-craft on exhibit across the horizon. Madame Day holds classes every morning, Professor Night lectures each evening. 3-4 Their words aren’t heard, their voices aren’t recorded, But their silence fills the earth: unspoken truth is spoken everywhere. 4-5 God makes a huge dome for the sun—a superdome! The morning sun’s a new husband leaping from his honeymoon bed, The daybreaking sun an athlete racing to the tape. 6 That’s how God’s Word vaults across the skies from sunrise to sunset, Melting ice, scorching deserts, warming hearts to faith.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 19:39:01 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.What a forked tongue idea that is! Just wondering how fetuses that are born with aids because their fathers didn't wear condums would really work? I suppose one small pin hole in an appropriate place on the condum would enable the fetuses to fertilize? Sheesh...I learn something new every day! Forgive me, DMG! I had a good laugh about that...thanks for a lift, I needed that!
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Post by ts on Mar 13, 2013 19:41:46 GMT -5
Well ts, I think it's pretty obvious god had nothing to do with the decisions in these churches. If he did I don't think there would need to be a vote or overseers allowing people to be workers. God would tell the person he wanted to be pope/worker to go and tell everyone that he was the next pope/worker and because it was god's will everyone would know that this was true and that would be that. He would be pope/worker. But we must play the game that god is guiding it seems. I don't mind that they're playing the game as much as I mind the deception. However, it is more confirmation that if anything on earth is to get done, it must be done by humankind. Well, humankind gets things done through the power of the Holy Spirit, ideally. When humankind operates outside of the direction of the Holy Spirit and claims to be led by the Holy Spirit, they make comments like yours look justified. That is why it makes me so angry. Antics like Sam's and others like him make God's name and work to stink.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 19:42:22 GMT -5
Well ts, I think it's pretty obvious god had nothing to do with the decisions in these churches. If he did I don't think there would need to be a vote or overseers allowing people to be workers. God would tell the person he wanted to be pope/worker to go and tell everyone that he was the next pope/worker and because it was god's will everyone would know that this was true and that would be that. He would be pope/worker. But we must play the game that god is guiding it seems. I don't mind that they're playing the game as much as I mind the deception. However, it is more confirmation that if anything on earth is to get done, it must be done by humankind. Awww, back to the Pied Piper idea, eh?
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 19:51:51 GMT -5
sacerdotal Is there a purpose in your negative comments about catholics or is just the 2x2 training coming out? ken It sounds like sacerdotal is going contrary to 2x2 training, actually. He is not making negative comments about Catholics or 2x2s. He is making comments about the negative actions and attitudes that the Catholics and 2x2s set up themselves. It is not BEING negative to notice that they are doing something that is detrimental to people's faith(and detrimental in many other ways, too). What I don't understand is the necessity of making the "voting for a new pope" to be something that is ultra people negative! We read in Acts how Peter, the Apostle, stood up and spoke to others there that they needed to discover a "new" recruit from those that had been disciples of Jesus and had followed Jesus much everywhere He'd gon plus had heard a lot of Jesus' instructions to the Apostles, etc. So Peter's fellow Apostles didn't actually form a formal "conclave" but they did sit down and cast their lots on two different disciples so that they would have the 12th Apostles since Judas Iscariots Bishorpry was empty. NOW IF the Apostles did this why is it such a negative thing for the Catholics to do something similiar? Just because there are more then "!2" Cardinals(Bishops) in the Catholic Conclave, it should be thus for they represent different territories where Catholic members live......yes, it's a political process...but don't make fun of it, for we have political process all over the bible and all over the world! The workers do the same things in their workers' mtgs. Unless they're Sam McCracken apparently! I think Sam did what he did in front of TS to warn TS just how quick Sam could make TS' head swim. But I'm thankful that the Pope has been elected and is consenting to carry the load. It was said he was the second choice when Pope Benedict was elected, so it only seems fair. I just pray the man's health stays good so he can overcome the negative problems within his church. I'm not a Catholic, but I don't feel it good to get too demeaning about them...they declare their popes are from the chair that Peter sit on nad I can't say they aren't so I'm gladly waiting until after eternity has come for all of mankind and we'll find out just what these political procedures in the name of religion were worth! Cheers and best wishes to Pope Francis, he'll need it.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 13, 2013 19:52:24 GMT -5
[ Is there a purpose in your negative comments about catholics or is just the 2x2 training coming out? ken Actually, my 2x2 training taught me to allow spiritual bullies to be spiritual bullies because God anointed them, and to speak against them is to speak against God. The Catholics teach the exact same thing and bully millions of people into submission, all the while enriching themselves upon the backs of the poor. I am against spiritual bullying and inequity wherever it is. The catholic church has many Cardinals that are against the status quo- they should be encouraged- there are Cardinals against the celibacy of the priesthood, against hard line stances against homosexuals, against, the hard line legalistic, non-merciful stances against contraception, etc. I make no apologies for being against hypocrisy, no matter the guise it takes.
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2013 19:53:59 GMT -5
I was thinking about the "smoke" thing.
At one time it would have been a good way to let the surrounding areas know a pope had been chosen.
Now, however, it is antiquated just like so many of the ideas of the Catholic church!
So much about the RCC is pomp & drama- but under all of that there is very destructive ideas for the whole world.
One being, their ban on condoms in Africa where AIDS is rampant and children are born with the decease & die.What a forked tongue idea that is! Just wondering how fetuses that are born with aids because their fathers didn't wear condums would really work? I suppose one small pin hole in an appropriate place on the condum would enable the fetuses to fertilize? Sheesh...I learn something new every day! Forgive me, DMG! I had a good laugh about that...thanks for a lift, I needed that! ?? I don't get it, sharonw.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 20:00:49 GMT -5
Just wondering how fetuses that are born with aids because their fathers didn't wear condums would really work? I suppose one small pin hole in an appropriate place on the condum would enable the fetuses to fertilize? Sheesh...I learn something new every day! Forgive me, DMG! I had a good laugh about that...thanks for a lift, I needed that! ?? I don't get it, sharonw. Some quirky medical joke...though dmg didn't intentionally do that. The joke is she said something about the Catholic church condemning the Africans from using condums and there were babies being born with aids. The question runs through my mind, "just where did that fetus come from IF the parents have to use condums?" Was kind of medically strange and funny....and then I gave the answer that the parents wanting babies could use condums but should pinprick a hole in the condum in a very critical place of the condum so MOM can become pregnant because Dad's semen got through but his aids didn"t! BTW, I should say that a lot of the times the mothers already have aids themselves, so naturally the babies might just be born with it or might contract the aids as they pass through their mother's vaginal vault where her aids is living in the muscus and blood.... It really is a sad medical thing that happens and there really is little answer now since it is so prevalent!
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Post by Greg on Mar 13, 2013 20:00:49 GMT -5
Just wondering how fetuses that are born with aids because their fathers didn't wear condums would really work? I suppose one small pin hole in an appropriate place on the condum would enable the fetuses to fertilize? Sheesh...I learn something new every day! Forgive me, DMG! I had a good laugh about that...thanks for a lift, I needed that! ?? I don't get it, sharonw. Nor do I.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2013 20:08:28 GMT -5
[ Is there a purpose in your negative comments about catholics or is just the 2x2 training coming out? ken Actually, my 2x2 training taught me to allow spiritual bullies to be spiritual bullies because God anointed them, and to speak against them is to speak against God. The Catholics teach the exact same thing and bully millions of people into submission, all the while enriching themselves upon the backs of the poor. I am against spiritual bullying and inequity wherever it is. The catholic church has many Cardinals that are against the status quo- they should be encouraged- there are Cardinals against the celibacy of the priesthood, against hard line stances against homosexuals, against, the hard line legalistic, non-merciful stances against contraception, etc. I make no apologies for being against hypocrisy, no matter the guise it takes. Sacerdotal, I do not understand how you come up with "hypocrisy" in the Catholic priests that are against celibacy of the priesthood, or against hard line stances against homosexuals, or against hard line legalistic, non-merciful stances against contraceptions.? IF that is how a Catholic priest is convicted, I see no "hypocrisy" in it at all. I can tell you that IF a Catholic priest is against homosexuals being a part of the Catholic church in an open manner, then why should an homosexual want to push themselves upon the Catholic priest that is against homosexuality? I mean, I don't like black men marrying white women or white men marrying black women....so I just don't go there for myself. And yes, I would likely teach my children the things I see wrong with that...but then that doesn't mean that those who believe in the half white/half black marriages have to come and bop me in the head for believing against it...they don't have to have societal means with me or mine. Sometimes I do think the world has gotten too "free" with itself and we're all going to go down in a handbasket when judgment day comes. If our spirits are driven by the negative things against other people's convictions then isn't that saying more about our spirits then their convictions? I don't know, I'm just asking!
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Post by snow on Mar 13, 2013 20:12:44 GMT -5
?? I don't get it, sharonw. Some quirky medical joke...though dmg didn't intentionally do that. The joke is she said something about the Catholic church condemning the Africans from using condums and there were babies being born with aids. The question runs through my mind, "just where did that fetus come from IF the parents have to use condums?" Was kind of medically strange and funny....and then I gave the answer that the parents wanting babies could use condums but should pinprick a hole in the condum in a very critical place of the condum so MOM can become pregnant because Dad's semen got through but his aids didn"t! BTW, I should say that a lot of the times the mothers already have aids themselves, so naturally the babies might just be born with it or might contract the aids as they pass through their mother's vaginal vault where her aids is living in the muscus and blood.... It really is a sad medical thing that happens and there really is little answer now since it is so prevalent! Sharon, what is really sad is that aids has spread throughout Africa at an alarming rate because they can't use condoms. Children being born with aids is because one or both of the parents have aids because they never 'used' a condom. They are told they can't wear condoms because it's birth control. Then when they are told condoms will prevent the spread of aids by the medical community, the church doesn't allow them to because it also prevents pregnancy. So basically it's alright to birth a child with aids, but it's not alright to practice birth control. They were also telling people that the aids virus can get through condoms which is false. That is criminal imo. All because there is a clause in the RCC rule book that says no birth control.
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