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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 22:21:53 GMT -5
Might even bring people back to them who contrary to 2&2 minister belief love the Lord and all who believe on Him as well as those who don't as much as they if not more so.
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Post by peridot on Mar 6, 2013 22:25:40 GMT -5
sacerdotal, what is the help that is referred to in the post "responsibility to helping those within it" How does it help those within the group to stay in it? and the feeling of responsibility? I, too, was raised in this faith, and am curious to understand why/how staying in the faith will help others. Because, quite honestly, I do feel that the Spirit leads in the lives of most of the workers and friends- more so- than are led by other denominations leaders. I do feel that most denominations are false religion that are shallow wells without water. BUT, I do feel that the Spirit can speak to men and women EVEN in those denominations. I KNOW that the Spirit does because I can see the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. Simple. But here is the caveat- I also feel that the "living witness doctrine" is a leaven to the 2x2s that has caused Phariseeism to be the rule rather than the exception. This doctrine HAS TO BE CAST OFF for the 2x2s to survive. Lyle seems to have "doubled-down" on it, so that isn't reassuring, but it is reassuring that there is FINALLY some HONESTY about it with him acknowledging it in an email. So, a senior working being openly honest is a step in the right direction. Transparency is severely lacking among the 2x2 leadership. By staying in the truth group, the workers and friends are not really open to change or "help" that one may offer from a broader biblical viewpoint. The need for help is usually seen by those in the truth as the need to help anyone who does not believe in the faith. Unless one wants to risk excommunication, to stay in the group and "help" people could be seen as interference and are often eliminated by excommunication. The broader minded loving spirit can be seen as the wrong kind of spirit for meetings. Seems like anytime someone begins to have a broader sense of the Bible and of the love of God for ALL people, the workers hush them up. It stems from the 2x2 belief that they are the ONLY right people with God, anyone else will spend eternity in hell. (which I do not believe) Seeking God for guidance is most helpful when we want to know His will for us; He will lead us amazingly well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 22:26:26 GMT -5
Might even bring people back to them who contrary to 2&2 minister belief love the Lord and all who believe on Him as well as those who don't as much as they if not more so. wouldn't that be awesome?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2013 22:27:33 GMT -5
Right, I see not reason to leave the group. Minus a few bad policies, it is a very nice fellowship to belong to. It is just too bad that they preach that it is a perfect fellowship and that they are a group set apart as the only right fellowship- that really hinders their growth- as perfection, by definition, cannot be improved on. I am not advocating leaving or not leaving. I am advocating that they become a part of the rest of the body of Christ rather than isolate themselves. To me, that is a different topic than with a non Christian group. I am advocating that the Friends and Workers become non exclusive and quit thinking they are the only ones in the body of Christ so that they can join the rest of the body of Christ and work together in getting others to accept Jesus...(rather than giving the people such valid reasons to abandon Christianity). They do not have to leave their fellowship in order to make this change. However, making this change of doctrine will very likely put them in contact with other fellowships and cause them to work more closely with them in reaching people who have not accept Jesus as their King. We could have an amazing fellowship if we dropped the exclusive business.
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Post by peridot on Mar 6, 2013 22:52:59 GMT -5
Even with the exclusive doctrine issue dropped, conflicts amongst the f&w and other christians would still abound as do conflicts amongst the F&w, baptist, methodist, presbyterian, etc., churches now. Human nature and Satan are still present. The Holy Spirit needs to be present and prevailing for the fellowship to be sweet.
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Post by emy on Mar 6, 2013 22:57:07 GMT -5
Even with the exclusive doctrine issue dropped, conflicts amongst the f&w and other christians would still abound as do conflicts amongst the F&w, baptist, methodist, presbyterian, etc., churches now. Human nature and Satan are still present. The Holy Spirit needs to be present and prevailing for the fellowship to be sweet. Is this why some meetings have sweet fellowship and some do not? In that case, there is truth to "being the change you want to see." It could be a slow process, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit prevailing in a life is very appealing and something others may desire.
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Post by ts on Mar 6, 2013 23:19:43 GMT -5
I am not advocating leaving or not leaving. I am advocating that they become a part of the rest of the body of Christ rather than isolate themselves. To me, that is a different topic than with a non Christian group. I am advocating that the Friends and Workers become non exclusive and quit thinking they are the only ones in the body of Christ so that they can join the rest of the body of Christ and work together in getting others to accept Jesus...(rather than giving the people such valid reasons to abandon Christianity). They do not have to leave their fellowship in order to make this change. However, making this change of doctrine will very likely put them in contact with other fellowships and cause them to work more closely with them in reaching people who have not accept Jesus as their King. We could have an amazing fellowship if we dropped the exclusive business. I agree. There are some things that I really loved about the Work. That is, I really loved the family connection that I had with the Friends and the brotherly feeling I had with the Workers. It was really special. Now, all of that was hinged on the exclusivity. I realize that. Now, imagine if the same fellowship and closeness were based on worshiping God and Jesus. That is what I currently have with the extended Church family I am in. We have our own little group, sure. But the fellowship extends to other Christians all over the place who obviously have the same desire for a close relationship with God. In most cases, I don't have any idea where or IF they belong to any particular denomination. I actually do not know what denomination my own church is. It has never been an issue. It is a church plant and they are doing God's work. That much is clear. Yes, Hberry, I do miss the friends. Especially the ones who are my own family members. I would like to be able to call up old friends in the work and meeting and just chat. But that is almost impossible in most cases because I am labeled an "outsider" and perhaps even a "trouble maker" because of this or that. I do believe that what I am preaching is the gospel of Jesus. Though I am accused of promoting discord among brethren, I believe that it is those who uphold exclusivity who are the ones promoting discord among brethren.
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Post by ts on Mar 6, 2013 23:24:06 GMT -5
Even with the exclusive doctrine issue dropped, conflicts amongst the f&w and other christians would still abound as do conflicts amongst the F&w, baptist, methodist, presbyterian, etc., churches now. Human nature and Satan are still present. The Holy Spirit needs to be present and prevailing for the fellowship to be sweet. Is this why some meetings have sweet fellowship and some do not? In that case, there is truth to "being the change you want to see." It could be a slow process, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit prevailing in a life is very appealing and something others may desire. Yes, there are some meetings where the people get along better than in others. I wonder if any such meeting has collectively and publicly made a stand against the exclusivity doctrine. If so, they would find themselves at odds with the workers when (if) they come to visit. Then, there would be an end to that "sweet fellowship".
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Post by peridot on Mar 6, 2013 23:44:02 GMT -5
Even with the exclusive doctrine issue dropped, conflicts amongst the f&w and other christians would still abound as do conflicts amongst the F&w, baptist, methodist, presbyterian, etc., churches now. Human nature and Satan are still present. The Holy Spirit needs to be present and prevailing for the fellowship to be sweet. Is this why some meetings have sweet fellowship and some do not? In that case, there is truth to "being the change you want to see." It could be a slow process, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit prevailing in a life is very appealing and something others may desire. Yes, I believe sweet fellowship is enjoyed wherever the Holy Spirit is, in meetings or outside of meetings.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 7, 2013 8:05:05 GMT -5
Is this why some meetings have sweet fellowship and some do not? In that case, there is truth to "being the change you want to see." It could be a slow process, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit prevailing in a life is very appealing and something others may desire. Yes, I believe sweet fellowship is enjoyed wherever the Holy Spirit is, in meetings or outside of meetings. Absolutely.
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Post by snow on Mar 7, 2013 12:53:42 GMT -5
Right, I see not reason to leave the group. Minus a few bad policies, it is a very nice fellowship to belong to. It is just too bad that they preach that it is a perfect fellowship and that they are a group set apart as the only right fellowship- that really hinders their growth- as perfection, by definition, cannot be improved on. I am not advocating leaving or not leaving. I am advocating that they become a part of the rest of the body of Christ rather than isolate themselves. To me, that is a different topic than with a non Christian group. I am advocating that the Friends and Workers become non exclusive and quit thinking they are the only ones in the body of Christ so that they can join the rest of the body of Christ and work together in getting others to accept Jesus...(rather than giving the people such valid reasons to abandon Christianity). They do not have to leave their fellowship in order to make this change. However, making this change of doctrine will very likely put them in contact with other fellowships and cause them to work more closely with them in reaching people who have not accept Jesus as their King. Thanks ts, just trying to get it straight in my mind what you're trying to do with some of you're posts. It sometimes sounded like you felt they should all leave to me. However, if we took away the exclusiveness from their group, would they still be the same? From my early years I found the workers I talked to seemed quite proud of this 'only way, only saved' mentality. If that's what they want to believe and they want to think they are separate from the world then that's their business. If that means cutting themselves off from fellowship with other Christians, that is also their business. They don't seem to miss it and the ones that do miss it, tend to be reaching out to others in other denominations anyway. They are part of a community that is familiar and they are comfortable with. I don't really see any harm in that. I certainly would never have suggested to my parents that had professed for about 80 years each that they leave their 'way' behind and go to a different less exclusive church. That would have been very difficult for them if even possible. They professed when in their teens and early 20's and lived into their 90's so it was their 'life'.
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Post by ts on Mar 7, 2013 21:15:28 GMT -5
I am not advocating leaving or not leaving. I am advocating that they become a part of the rest of the body of Christ rather than isolate themselves. To me, that is a different topic than with a non Christian group. I am advocating that the Friends and Workers become non exclusive and quit thinking they are the only ones in the body of Christ so that they can join the rest of the body of Christ and work together in getting others to accept Jesus...(rather than giving the people such valid reasons to abandon Christianity). They do not have to leave their fellowship in order to make this change. However, making this change of doctrine will very likely put them in contact with other fellowships and cause them to work more closely with them in reaching people who have not accept Jesus as their King. Thanks ts, just trying to get it straight in my mind what you're trying to do with some of you're posts. It sometimes sounded like you felt they should all leave to me. However, if we took away the exclusiveness from their group, would they still be the same? From my early years I found the workers I talked to seemed quite proud of this 'only way, only saved' mentality. If that's what they want to believe and they want to think they are separate from the world then that's their business. If that means cutting themselves off from fellowship with other Christians, that is also their business. They don't seem to miss it and the ones that do miss it, tend to be reaching out to others in other denominations anyway. They are part of a community that is familiar and they are comfortable with. I don't really see any harm in that. I certainly would never have suggested to my parents that had professed for about 80 years each that they leave their 'way' behind and go to a different less exclusive church. That would have been very difficult for them if even possible. They professed when in their teens and early 20's and lived into their 90's so it was their 'life'. It isn't exactly that simple. Yes, people are "making choices" about where they go to church, but there is a lot of confusion because of the manipulation of the "choice mechanism" in meetings. There is some real abuse going on because of the "only way" and there are those among the Friends and Workers who want to make it look like (for the sake of the reputation of the group) that everyone is free to choose what they believe and there is no pressure one way or the other. That is simply false. If they stated the truth openly, for example, first thing in gospel meeting, they KNOW they would look like a cult. But that aside... I am very happy for everyone to express themselves in the body of Christ in their own unique ways they they were created to do. I am very happy for groups of individuals to express themselves in their own unique group way. I believe there is a lot of room for that in the body of Christ.
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Post by snow on Mar 8, 2013 13:24:09 GMT -5
Thanks ts, just trying to get it straight in my mind what you're trying to do with some of you're posts. It sometimes sounded like you felt they should all leave to me. However, if we took away the exclusiveness from their group, would they still be the same? From my early years I found the workers I talked to seemed quite proud of this 'only way, only saved' mentality. If that's what they want to believe and they want to think they are separate from the world then that's their business. If that means cutting themselves off from fellowship with other Christians, that is also their business. They don't seem to miss it and the ones that do miss it, tend to be reaching out to others in other denominations anyway. They are part of a community that is familiar and they are comfortable with. I don't really see any harm in that. I certainly would never have suggested to my parents that had professed for about 80 years each that they leave their 'way' behind and go to a different less exclusive church. That would have been very difficult for them if even possible. They professed when in their teens and early 20's and lived into their 90's so it was their 'life'. It isn't exactly that simple. Yes, people are "making choices" about where they go to church, but there is a lot of confusion because of the manipulation of the "choice mechanism" in meetings. There is some real abuse going on because of the "only way" and there are those among the Friends and Workers who want to make it look like (for the sake of the reputation of the group) that everyone is free to choose what they believe and there is no pressure one way or the other. That is simply false. If they stated the truth openly, for example, first thing in gospel meeting, they KNOW they would look like a cult. But that aside... I am very happy for everyone to express themselves in the body of Christ in their own unique ways they they were created to do. I am very happy for groups of individuals to express themselves in their own unique group way. I believe there is a lot of room for that in the body of Christ. I agree it is hidden. However, everyone is free to leave. I did and so have many others. You did. There are usually repercussions for choices we make and I agree losing your family, if that's what they decide to do when you leave, is harsh. I was one of the lucky ones I guess.
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Post by ts on Mar 8, 2013 21:30:36 GMT -5
It isn't exactly that simple. Yes, people are "making choices" about where they go to church, but there is a lot of confusion because of the manipulation of the "choice mechanism" in meetings. There is some real abuse going on because of the "only way" and there are those among the Friends and Workers who want to make it look like (for the sake of the reputation of the group) that everyone is free to choose what they believe and there is no pressure one way or the other. That is simply false. If they stated the truth openly, for example, first thing in gospel meeting, they KNOW they would look like a cult. But that aside... I am very happy for everyone to express themselves in the body of Christ in their own unique ways they they were created to do. I am very happy for groups of individuals to express themselves in their own unique group way. I believe there is a lot of room for that in the body of Christ. I agree it is hidden. However, everyone is free to leave. I did and so have many others. You did. There are usually repercussions for choices we make and I agree losing your family, if that's what they decide to do when you leave, is harsh. I was one of the lucky ones I guess. There is no such thing as "leaving". I am still here on the Earth and so is my family and the friends and workers. They are "family" whether any of us like it or not. You went one direction and are now advocating that direction. You are "preaching" what is in your opinion (I assume) your balanced choices and showing that it can be done. This is a forum where many people from the 2x2s read. What you say might resonate with some and they will go that way. If so, you are accountable for that as a teacher and a guide for them. The friends and workers are Christians for the most part. I believe MOST of them believe in Jesus as their Saviour. I also believe that MOST of them believe they are in the only truth and way. I ALSO believe that MANY of them are experiencing what I experienced as a Worker and would like help in sorting out the confusion. My ministry as a Worker used to be to get people into the Meetings and encourage the friends to stay in meetings. Ministry is a gift given to me from God, as all gifts are given and are irrevocable(even if we choose to misuse them). Jesus said in Mt 11, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I believe that there are some of the friends and workers desiring that and trying to rationalize that their heavy yoke is light and easy....when it really isn't. But they don't know anything different. Actually, what I want for them is what I learned from them to preach to Christian "outsiders". I know they know the message. I do find it sad that so many are forsaking Jesus and denying the real power of Heaven that is on our side because of the powerlessness that the workers live and preach. Their doctrine is doing a lot of damage to people's faith. I was there, I went through that process. Through God's mercy and loving kindness, He showed me His love, grace and complete redemption of ALL things. I just want to say that at one point not so long ago, snow, I was leaning more heavily towards your current line of thinking than my current line of thinking.
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Post by snow on Mar 9, 2013 13:13:09 GMT -5
I agree it is hidden. However, everyone is free to leave. I did and so have many others. You did. There are usually repercussions for choices we make and I agree losing your family, if that's what they decide to do when you leave, is harsh. I was one of the lucky ones I guess. There is no such thing as "leaving". I am still here on the Earth and so is my family and the friends and workers. They are "family" whether any of us like it or not. You went one direction and are now advocating that direction. You are "preaching" what is in your opinion (I assume) your balanced choices and showing that it can be done. This is a forum where many people from the 2x2s read. What you say might resonate with some and they will go that way. If so, you are accountable for that as a teacher and a guide for them. The friends and workers are Christians for the most part. I believe MOST of them believe in Jesus as their Saviour. I also believe that MOST of them believe they are in the only truth and way. I ALSO believe that MANY of them are experiencing what I experienced as a Worker and would like help in sorting out the confusion. My ministry as a Worker used to be to get people into the Meetings and encourage the friends to stay in meetings. Ministry is a gift given to me from God, as all gifts are given and are irrevocable(even if we choose to misuse them). Jesus said in Mt 11, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I believe that there are some of the friends and workers desiring that and trying to rationalize that their heavy yoke is light and easy....when it really isn't. But they don't know anything different. Actually, what I want for them is what I learned from them to preach to Christian "outsiders". I know they know the message. I do find it sad that so many are forsaking Jesus and denying the real power of Heaven that is on our side because of the powerlessness that the workers live and preach. Their doctrine is doing a lot of damage to people's faith. I was there, I went through that process. Through God's mercy and loving kindness, He showed me His love, grace and complete redemption of ALL things. I just want to say that at one point not so long ago, snow, I was leaning more heavily towards your current line of thinking than my current line of thinking. Not sure what you mean by 'there is no such thing as leaving'? It is possible to leave the 2x2 system. I wasn't referring to leaving family and friends though sometimes they make that to be the same thing. I think everyone has shared their stories, not with the intent of getting anyone else to leave, but rather just a sharing period. When you talk about leaving because for some reason God showed you what you believe is a better way, you are negating a lot of other people's relationship with their God. You don't like it when people do that to you, so why do you do that to them? Also, can you explain to me what it is exactly that I believe that you once shared?
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Post by ts on Mar 9, 2013 15:17:56 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "leaving". I am still here on the Earth and so is my family and the friends and workers. They are "family" whether any of us like it or not. You went one direction and are now advocating that direction. You are "preaching" what is in your opinion (I assume) your balanced choices and showing that it can be done. This is a forum where many people from the 2x2s read. What you say might resonate with some and they will go that way. If so, you are accountable for that as a teacher and a guide for them. The friends and workers are Christians for the most part. I believe MOST of them believe in Jesus as their Saviour. I also believe that MOST of them believe they are in the only truth and way. I ALSO believe that MANY of them are experiencing what I experienced as a Worker and would like help in sorting out the confusion. My ministry as a Worker used to be to get people into the Meetings and encourage the friends to stay in meetings. Ministry is a gift given to me from God, as all gifts are given and are irrevocable(even if we choose to misuse them). Jesus said in Mt 11, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I believe that there are some of the friends and workers desiring that and trying to rationalize that their heavy yoke is light and easy....when it really isn't. But they don't know anything different. Actually, what I want for them is what I learned from them to preach to Christian "outsiders". I know they know the message. I do find it sad that so many are forsaking Jesus and denying the real power of Heaven that is on our side because of the powerlessness that the workers live and preach. Their doctrine is doing a lot of damage to people's faith. I was there, I went through that process. Through God's mercy and loving kindness, He showed me His love, grace and complete redemption of ALL things. I just want to say that at one point not so long ago, snow, I was leaning more heavily towards your current line of thinking than my current line of thinking. Not sure what you mean by 'there is no such thing as leaving'? It is possible to leave the 2x2 system. I wasn't referring to leaving family and friends though sometimes they make that to be the same thing. I think everyone has shared their stories, not with the intent of getting anyone else to leave, but rather just a sharing period. When you talk about leaving because for some reason God showed you what you believe is a better way, you are negating a lot of other people's relationship with their God. You don't like it when people do that to you, so why do you do that to them? Also, can you explain to me what it is exactly that I believe that you once shared? Probably not "exactly" but the general sense of "what is right for YOU" kind of thing. The idea that "God" has many manifestations and Christians have a notion of just ONE of His manifestations. The Native Americans, for example, not having been in the Mideast and not knowing the gospel developed their own understanding through the "spirit that moves in all things" and the "White Buffalo" visions...etc. At one time I believed that and many other things from other cultures and considered them just as viable as God. I was raised Baptist, was really "nothing" for a while. Went searching and "found The Truth" and became a worker for 12 years fully believing their doctrine. Then I began exploring things more related to the above. Then God supernaturally showed me differently in His mercy. I was praying and He answered my prayers and taught me differently. I don't consider myself to have "left" the 2x2s. When I was there, I did not consider myself to be a part of a system. There might well be a system but I considered myself to be a part of a family. The place that God called me to in that family was to be a shepherd. I was true to my calling, my calling did not go away and I am still true to that calling. In the spirit of what they SAY the meetings is based on, I am continuing that. The leadership has strayed from that ideal and have taken many people with them....Much like what happened in Jesus' day. I am looking at the whole situation from a completely different paradigm. Not the "this church or that church" mentality. I don't mind if others negate my relationship with God(if that is what they are doing). It really does not affect me in the least. I do believe that the church has a responsibility to evangelize. That means to bring people to Jesus. Jesus is the only way to salvation and the only way to a relationship with our Heavenly Father, YHVH. I believe that the church that I was called to, the 2x2s, is in error and needs correction. They have isolated themselves from the rest of the body of Christ and it is detrimental to many people who follow the leadership. The leadership is doubly accountable but the rest are not excused. I have a message. Some have the opportunity to hear the message and perhaps repent. They also have the opportunity to ignore what I am saying. Their choice. I can speak with authority on these particular matters because I tried out the Meetings/Work and now am involved with another type of ministry where there is freedom. I did not know that I was in bondage when in the Work. "How will they hear except there is a preacher?"...I can only do what I can do. I know what I have experienced and I can give my testimony.
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Post by snow on Mar 9, 2013 16:32:50 GMT -5
ts, I don't subscribe to any specific religious beliefs. I have studied many different religions in depth so I do know a fair amount about what each one believes and their history, but I don't agree with any of their philosophies as a whole. Some things good in all of them. That's mostly what I see. That's why I see such a commonality in religious beliefs. The most common of course is love and compassion. Some stress this more than others, but it's always there. There is a lot of respect for Mother Earth in many of them too. I don't see it in the "one God' religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as much. They are more focused on the afterlife and don't seem to care as much about the earth they live on. In fact, some go as far as hating this life they have been given and anything 'of this world'. I don't think that's a good thing for the outlook for caretakers of our planet, but that's what some believe.
So there is really no belief system out there that I agree with or follow. I do like some of the things from different ones though.
As far as leaving the 2x2's I guess I understand what you mean. I don't agree that you know better than them though. It's all a matter of preference. At least that's the way I see it.
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Post by ts on Mar 9, 2013 16:51:43 GMT -5
ts, I don't subscribe to any specific religious beliefs. I have studied many different religions in depth so I do know a fair amount about what each one believes and their history, but I don't agree with any of their philosophies as a whole. Some things good in all of them. That's mostly what I see. That's why I see such a commonality in religious beliefs. The most common of course is love and compassion. Some stress this more than others, but it's always there. There is a lot of respect for Mother Earth in many of them too. I don't see it in the "one God' religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as much. They are more focused on the afterlife and don't seem to care as much about the earth they live on. In fact, some go as far as hating this life they have been given and anything 'of this world'. I don't think that's a good thing for the outlook for caretakers of our planet, but that's what some believe. So there is really no belief system out there that I agree with or follow. I do like some of the things from different ones though. As far as leaving the 2x2's I guess I understand what you mean. I don't agree that you know better than them though. It's all a matter of preference. At least that's the way I see it. As far a "preference" goes, I can agree to that to some degree. I believe in the body of Christ there are different expressions and different functions in the same body. What bothers me is when parts of the body, like the 2x2s, disassociate themselves from the body. They also keep others who would be a part of the rest of the body from being a part(through fear, pride, etc). I don't claim to be better or know better than they do. Just say that I have "paid my dues" to have the right/authority to speak to them using their own words to bring them into the understanding that there is more "outside" that is Godly and more "outside" that is the Jesus they are preaching. I know they would benefit from being a part of that body and availing themselves of teaching that they don't know. I don't know everything. I know that the workers do not either. They could stand to learn some things that I(and others) have learned. Yes, I can enter in to what you are talking about your beliefs. "What is the common belief that unites all beliefs?" I took some courses from a Qi Gong master who said, "My religion is kindness." He was Chinese and apparently quite a famous practitioner of Qi healing in some places. He has thousands of adherents. He has been a part of some scientific studies using Qi to do things like kill cancer cells and such. I was also very into the "Mother Earth" aspect of things. I do realize that Christianity is largely like you say regarding caring for the Earth(or lack thereof). I very much see our role as Christians to be caretakers of the Earth. I believe we are made of Earth and connected to the Earth in a supernatural (metaphysical) sort of way. I don't understand it, really, but I know there is a lot of scripture that connects us with the land. When we sin and enter into false worship, that damages the land. When we are worshiping God, then the land is healed supernaturally. I am just saying that I can enter in to how you feel about religion. I did once believe more like you than I presently believe. I could easily say things to support your thoughts just like I can go back into worker talk to support the 2x2 beliefs.
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Post by snow on Mar 9, 2013 17:35:12 GMT -5
ts, I don't subscribe to any specific religious beliefs. I have studied many different religions in depth so I do know a fair amount about what each one believes and their history, but I don't agree with any of their philosophies as a whole. Some things good in all of them. That's mostly what I see. That's why I see such a commonality in religious beliefs. The most common of course is love and compassion. Some stress this more than others, but it's always there. There is a lot of respect for Mother Earth in many of them too. I don't see it in the "one God' religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as much. They are more focused on the afterlife and don't seem to care as much about the earth they live on. In fact, some go as far as hating this life they have been given and anything 'of this world'. I don't think that's a good thing for the outlook for caretakers of our planet, but that's what some believe. So there is really no belief system out there that I agree with or follow. I do like some of the things from different ones though. As far as leaving the 2x2's I guess I understand what you mean. I don't agree that you know better than them though. It's all a matter of preference. At least that's the way I see it. As far a "preference" goes, I can agree to that to some degree. I believe in the body of Christ there are different expressions and different functions in the same body. What bothers me is when parts of the body, like the 2x2s, disassociate themselves from the body. They also keep others who would be a part of the rest of the body from being a part(through fear, pride, etc). I don't claim to be better or know better than they do. Just say that I have "paid my dues" to have the right/authority to speak to them using their own words to bring them into the understanding that there is more "outside" that is Godly and more "outside" that is the Jesus they are preaching. I know they would benefit from being a part of that body and availing themselves of teaching that they don't know. I don't know everything. I know that the workers do not either. They could stand to learn some things that I(and others) have learned. Yes, I can enter in to what you are talking about your beliefs. "What is the common belief that unites all beliefs?" I took some courses from a Qi Gong master who said, "My religion is kindness." He was Chinese and apparently quite a famous practitioner of Qi healing in some places. He has thousands of adherents. He has been a part of some scientific studies using Qi to do things like kill cancer cells and such. I was also very into the "Mother Earth" aspect of things. I do realize that Christianity is largely like you say regarding caring for the Earth(or lack thereof). I very much see our role as Christians to be caretakers of the Earth. I believe we are made of Earth and connected to the Earth in a supernatural (metaphysical) sort of way. I don't understand it, really, but I know there is a lot of scripture that connects us with the land. When we sin and enter into false worship, that damages the land. When we are worshiping God, then the land is healed supernaturally. I am just saying that I can enter in to how you feel about religion. I did once believe more like you than I presently believe. I could easily say things to support your thoughts just like I can go back into worker talk to support the 2x2 beliefs. Thanks for your clarification of many things. You asked the one thing that would unite all religions and I think that is 'love'. Most if not all religions believe it is important. I know many are fear based, but even those speak of love being important.
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Post by ts on Mar 9, 2013 17:53:39 GMT -5
As far a "preference" goes, I can agree to that to some degree. I believe in the body of Christ there are different expressions and different functions in the same body. What bothers me is when parts of the body, like the 2x2s, disassociate themselves from the body. They also keep others who would be a part of the rest of the body from being a part(through fear, pride, etc). I don't claim to be better or know better than they do. Just say that I have "paid my dues" to have the right/authority to speak to them using their own words to bring them into the understanding that there is more "outside" that is Godly and more "outside" that is the Jesus they are preaching. I know they would benefit from being a part of that body and availing themselves of teaching that they don't know. I don't know everything. I know that the workers do not either. They could stand to learn some things that I(and others) have learned. Yes, I can enter in to what you are talking about your beliefs. "What is the common belief that unites all beliefs?" I took some courses from a Qi Gong master who said, "My religion is kindness." He was Chinese and apparently quite a famous practitioner of Qi healing in some places. He has thousands of adherents. He has been a part of some scientific studies using Qi to do things like kill cancer cells and such. I was also very into the "Mother Earth" aspect of things. I do realize that Christianity is largely like you say regarding caring for the Earth(or lack thereof). I very much see our role as Christians to be caretakers of the Earth. I believe we are made of Earth and connected to the Earth in a supernatural (metaphysical) sort of way. I don't understand it, really, but I know there is a lot of scripture that connects us with the land. When we sin and enter into false worship, that damages the land. When we are worshiping God, then the land is healed supernaturally. I am just saying that I can enter in to how you feel about religion. I did once believe more like you than I presently believe. I could easily say things to support your thoughts just like I can go back into worker talk to support the 2x2 beliefs. Thanks for your clarification of many things. You asked the one thing that would unite all religions and I think that is 'love'. Most if not all religions believe it is important. I know many are fear based, but even those speak of love being important. Well, I asked that question sorta rhetorically. That is the question that I asked when looking at all religions and finding my way among them. I was stating that as a way of defining the similarities in what you believe that is similar to what I used to believe. I can understand why people leave Christianity or group it in with a lot of other things. The Church definitely has a lot of failings. Just like the churches in Revelation did. I can't address all of the failings in ALL churches. Just the one that I was called to. Perhaps that calling will grow as I do. The effort is to edify the body of Christ. I don't think the Workers and Friends are availing themselves of the healing that they could simply because of their false doctrine. The workers are not getting help for themselves and preventing those who would.
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