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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 18:01:41 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 29, 2014 18:01:41 GMT -5
What specifically in the bible encourages you to do "bad" things? I would say it's more individual interpretation of the bible that causes some people to think it's ok and even required to do 'bad' things. There is plenty of things in the OT especially that one can justify their behavior and do. I believe if someone wants to justify anything 'bad' they can find it in the bible and if people want to be more loving they can find that there too. That would go for any belief system I would think, as has already been discussed.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 29, 2014 18:52:31 GMT -5
And all the people said , at least mostly all, LOL, AMEN I'm glad your post was #666 in this thread. I was afraid to go next Absolute proof of mark of the beast is if a person uses the word AMEN anywhere at all in the vicinity of 666. Please call me if you need to verify. my phone number is 666-666-6666. Area code does get little busy as the line keeps burning up in my location. It seems like it takes an eternity for those linemen to come fix it and stupid air conditioning is on the blink too. Sure gets a person hot under the collar. Some hot chick, just called me for supper , so will go join her . thanks for opportunity to communicate. Alvin
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Post by Gene on Dec 29, 2014 19:03:32 GMT -5
What specifically in the bible encourages you to do "bad" things? Bert, that all depends on who the "you" is who is doing the bible reading and the interpreting. One recent example: JetMech wrote, based on his understanding of scripture, that all homosexuals should be beheaded. Then, when confronted, he backed down, but not really: He wrote that God should eliminate all the homosexuals. Guess he no longer wants to do the dirty work himself, so he called upon God to do it. PS: I should add, it also depends on who is doing the defining of "bad". It appears JetMech does not consider the beheading of all the homosexuals--or their elimination by God--a bad thing.
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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 20:45:00 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 29, 2014 20:45:00 GMT -5
Are you attempting to suggest that atheism has ZERO responsibility in anything BAD that happened in Russia or any other self proclaimed atheist state? Alvin I am simply saying that "atheism" as a belief (actually a non-belief in a god) is not what powered the communistic governments in ANY country!
It is the ideas of a type of government, -communism (often a corrupt concept of Marx's ideas at that) that is the responsible.
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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 20:58:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 20:58:08 GMT -5
Are you attempting to suggest that atheism has ZERO responsibility in anything BAD that happened in Russia or any other self proclaimed atheist state? Alvin I am simply saying that "atheism" as a belief (actually a non-belief in a god) is not what powered the communistic governments in ANY country!
It is the ideas of a type of government, -communism (often a corrupt concept of Marx's ideas at that) that is the responsible.
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck....
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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 22:32:40 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 29, 2014 22:32:40 GMT -5
Good. That excuses all other mistakes all other governments have made regarding ideology or whatever. It is not any connection to any belief or non belief that is responsible. Nothing to do with my belief or non belief -it's just ahhh it's just ahhh. Oh yes, those communists........no maybe it's Christians......hmmmmmmmmm no not us it's them guys over there, no way we're atheists and wouldn't do that so its those guys over there and on and on to infinity . So it is o well. For myself-I am innocent -NOT Alvin No, you are a bit mixed up there.
That DOES NOT excuse all other mistakes by all other governments.
Those mistakes are NOT excuseble if they had to do with belief in a god & IF religion and government were one & the same at the time.
Such as it was in much of Europe during the rule of Monarchy & the Church when they were in control together, sleeping in the same bed as it were, with each one working hand in glove with each other to "make" the laws that ruled the countries.
Just as any Islamic government is now if they are under Sharia law. ( Would you agree with that last statement?)
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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 22:40:54 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 29, 2014 22:40:54 GMT -5
I am simply saying that "atheism" as a belief (actually a non-belief in a god) is not what powered the communistic governments in ANY country!
It is the ideas of a type of government, -communism (often a corrupt concept of Marx's ideas at that) that is the responsible.
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck.... Wally, I believe that you are either getting your "ducks" or their "quacks" mixed up. I'm not sure which!
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Atheism
Dec 29, 2014 22:42:24 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 29, 2014 22:42:24 GMT -5
Not certain of question, but I agree there is connection with sharia law and islam, if that is what you are asking . I think there is also some connection with the laws of USA and Canada with Christianity . I believe there was some connection to the laws in Russia to atheism. Alvin
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 2:45:38 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 30, 2014 2:45:38 GMT -5
Not certain of question, but I agree there is connection with sharia law and islam, if that is what you are asking . I think there is also some connection with the laws of USA and Canada with Christianity . I believe there was some connection to the laws in Russia to atheism. Alvin No, there isn't "some connection with the laws of USA (and Canada) with Christianity."
That is what some Christians would like to believe, but it isn't true at least in the US. The US is a secular government & founded the belief of freedom of religion with separation of church & state.
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 5:56:03 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 5:56:03 GMT -5
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Post by Gene on Dec 30, 2014 6:35:58 GMT -5
I'm learning things on this thread. Thank you.
And it's inspiring some thoughts: To the extent that the communists tried to abolish religion, seems like they were attacking the symptom rather than the cause. Provide a sound economy, a social safety net for those who cannot fully participate in the economy, and provide for the general welfare of the citizenry, and people tend to drift away from religion, as the need for it has been reduced. Witness western Europe-
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 30, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -5
Thanks ram, Only read parts of it and it looks quite fair and balanced. Like most any subject , no simple absolute yes or absolute no. Good to read both sides of the argument, and as ad always, only loose connections? Cheers. Alvin
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 9:06:36 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 9:06:36 GMT -5
Thanks ram, Only read parts of it and it looks quite fair and balanced. Like most any subject , no simple absolute yes or absolute no. Good to read both sides of the argument, and as ad always, only loose connections? Cheers. Alvin Personally I saw a lot, at least in a foundational sense, to support your views.
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Post by xna on Dec 30, 2014 14:11:41 GMT -5
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 14:48:31 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 30, 2014 14:48:31 GMT -5
Thanks ram, Only read parts of it and it looks quite fair and balanced. Like most any subject , no simple absolute yes or absolute no. Good to read both sides of the argument, and as ad always, only loose connections? Cheers. Alvin Alvin, I'm Not sure what you mean by "loose connections." The article is by The Heritage Foundation, about the most conservative, if not the most conservative right wing think tank in the US. It has gotten even more to the right in recent years.
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 15:41:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 15:41:08 GMT -5
If you want a completely unbiased, fair assessment about the the existence of God, Jesus Christ, or any Christian topic, then my advise is to consult an ardent and unrelenting atheist. You just simply can't go wrong!
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 16:25:52 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 16:25:52 GMT -5
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 16:36:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 16:36:08 GMT -5
Think about it logically Bert. They have "nothing" to be biased about! They are quite simply biased about nothing! That's the kind of person you want!
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 30, 2014 17:00:08 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 30, 2014 17:47:57 GMT -5
Preferably an atheist like Dan Barker who was once an ardent fundamentalist minister who saw the light when in instances like the time he had to tell the standard Christian answer to a grieving wife as to why her prayer hadn't been answered. Can you guess what what that standard answer was and the verse it was based on?
How about Matthew 17:20 ► "He(Jesus) replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E0Bqa97tUI
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 17:57:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 17:57:48 GMT -5
Some people make something out of nothing, whilst some others make nothing out of something.
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Atheism
Dec 30, 2014 23:59:07 GMT -5
Post by slowtosee on Dec 30, 2014 23:59:07 GMT -5
I'm learning things on this thread. Thank you. And it's inspiring some thoughts: To the extent that the communists tried to abolish religion, seems like they were attacking the symptom rather than the cause. Provide a sound economy, a social safety net for those who cannot fully participate in the economy, and provide for the general welfare of the citizenry, and people tend to drift away from religion, as the need for it has been reduced. Witness western Europe- Just for the record, and I'm learning as we go, thanks, communists are not necessarily atheists , or vice versa of course. There are Christian Communists. We , myself anyhow, stereotype people . Usually, also, when we think of an atheist, we think non-religious. Stereotyping again, there are some very religous atheists, like Raelians. Generally, speaking, the majority of communists are not Christian and the majority of atheists are not religious, as far as I understand. No one label fits all. If that isn't confusing enough, check out atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm There are people who identify themselves as Christian Atheists. Lots of different individuals. Alvin -"Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves. Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. Christian communists may or may not agree with various parts of Marxism. They generally do not agree with the antireligious views held by secular Marxists, but do agree with many of the economic and existential aspects of Marxist theory, such as the idea that capitalism exploits the working class by extracting surplus value from the workers in the form of profits and that wage-labor is a tool of human alienation that promotes arbitrary and unjust authority"
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2014 1:11:58 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 31, 2014 1:11:58 GMT -5
I'm learning things on this thread. Thank you. And it's inspiring some thoughts: To the extent that the communists tried to abolish religion, seems like they were attacking the symptom rather than the cause. Provide a sound economy, a social safety net for those who cannot fully participate in the economy, and provide for the general welfare of the citizenry, and people tend to drift away from religion, as the need for it has been reduced. Witness western Europe- Just for the record, and I'm learning as we go, thanks, communists are not necessarily atheists , or vice versa of course. There are Christian Communists. We , myself anyhow, stereotype people . Usually, also, when we think of an atheist, we think non-religious. Stereotyping again, there are some very religous atheists, like Raelians. Generally, speaking, the majority of communists are not Christian and the majority of atheists are not religious, as far as I understand. No one label fits all. If that isn't confusing enough, check out atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm There are people who identify themselves as Christian Atheists. Lots of different individuals. Alvin -"Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves. Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. Christian communists may or may not agree with various parts of Marxism. They generally do not agree with the antireligious views held by secular Marxists, but do agree with many of the economic and existential aspects of Marxist theory, such as the idea that capitalism exploits the working class by extracting surplus value from the workers in the form of profits and that wage-labor is a tool of human alienation that promotes arbitrary and unjust authority" Thank you, Alvin. That is quite interesting.
It wouldn't be surprising to actually see a whole Christian Church based on the verse in Acts 2:44-45 : " And all that believed were together , and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. of the community "
It seems that is the only place that it is ever really presented in that context of holding "all things in common. " It would be interesting if we could find it continuing else where down through history but as far as I have read in the bible or elsewhere, I can't find it. (it might be inferred in Act 5:1 concerning Anani's & his wife Sapphira,- but only inferred)
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2014 9:55:22 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 31, 2014 9:55:22 GMT -5
Dmmichgood, thanks. Such a church does exist or at least based on those verses. It is called the Hutterian Brethren, or like most of us know it Hutterites. Some similarities to Mennonite, which was my background. A fair number of Hutterites have jumped the fence and professed. A few are workers. Alvin
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2014 14:01:37 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 31, 2014 14:01:37 GMT -5
Dmmichgood, thanks. Such a church does exist or at least based on those verses. It is called the Hutterian Brethren, or like most of us know it Hutterites. Some similarities to Mennonite, which was my background. A fair number of Hutterites have jumped the fence and professed. A few are workers. Alvin Ah, really?
It seems to me that I remember a older sister worker that was here in Illinois, named Florence Witt, who had been a Hutterite. I'm not sure.
Do the Hutterites have all property, etc. in common?
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2014 14:09:14 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 31, 2014 14:09:14 GMT -5
Yes. Some "outsiders" have joined, but no utopia, either. Alvin
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Atheism
Dec 31, 2014 14:10:19 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 31, 2014 14:10:19 GMT -5
Ah, likely the name was Wipf or maybe not? Common Hutterite name. Alvin. It also designates which origon of the three branches of Hutterites
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Post by xna on Dec 31, 2014 18:34:37 GMT -5
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