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Post by emy on Jul 20, 2012 15:39:53 GMT -5
JHJMR, if I send you money, it will benefit you and your family, probably for a very short time (not a big giver). If I give to a worker and it is more than s/he needs for personal use and it gets spent to put A/C in a convention building, it will benefit a large number of people for many years. And on the other hand, if it gets spent to buy a suit to replace the one the worker was tired of and new shark-skin dress shoes because they're cool, it benefits no one, really. (True story - he's an overseer now.) Do you know if this is still a typical MO for him, or has he learned better management?
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Post by emy on Jul 20, 2012 15:42:27 GMT -5
You have heard this done and can provide other witnesses who have also heard it?
Is this fact or hypothetical? It seems to cast suspicion on certain people you have made allegations about before. That would seem to be getting close to libel, if you cannot prove it is true.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 20, 2012 16:10:06 GMT -5
JHJMR, if I send you money, it will benefit you and your family, probably for a very short time (not a big giver). If I give to a worker and it is more than s/he needs for personal use and it gets spent to put A/C in a convention building, it will benefit a large number of people for many years. And on the other hand, if it gets spent to buy a suit to replace the one the worker was tired of and new shark-skin dress shoes because they're cool, it benefits no one, really. (True story - he's an overseer now.) In all likelihood that is what may well happen to the donation from such a fervant follower, simply because this overseer knows another overseer in another state or country that knows a friend of a friend who donates a/c equipment for charitable causes and thus charity brings the a/c that is for those "large number of people for years to come." as well as that first overseer gets the new Italian silk suit and those Gucci dress shoes! OOPS, my bad, eh? to think that! Lah!
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Post by rational on Jul 20, 2012 16:24:52 GMT -5
However, the same friends who say that do not consider that workers not being accountable for the excess money actually can hurt many people for generations to come. For example, suppose this same overseer who called for money for convention upgrades used this excess money to intimidate women, sister workers and use the money to establish his position of trust among the friends and workers. How, exactly, would excess cash in hand enable the intimidation of women? I have seen this claim made a number of times. In all the time I have been associated with the F&W I do not recall anyone asking "Where is 'X'?" and not getting a reply. How many times has a worker actually boarded a plane to fly off, unknown, to someplace, had a sexual encounter with another person, and returned home a day or two later? Could you give an example of this 'deep and lasting damage' this could cause?
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 16:28:54 GMT -5
and what if the money went to benefit one poor family instead of having air conditioning at convention? Cannot the workers see the power and blessing of sowing into the lives of one soul and giving encouragement?
Barry Barkley went to a family to tell them not to expect help from the friends after a dishonest lawyer had cheated them out of pay for honest labour. Think of the impact that has on a family who loses. Now think of the opposite impact he could have if he had said that this world is evil but God's people stick together. You have our unlimited help and we will get you back on your feet. We will be like Jesus approved of in the "Good Samaritan" when he found the man beaten and robbed.
But, Emy, you actually express very well the sentiment of the meetings. They see it as more beneficial to build buildings(and speak bad about other churches who do) and do corporate things for "the good of many" while trampling on the rights of the few. The workers do feel it is far better to put money into convention and spend their time in work projects preparing for four days of the year while there are individuals suffering. I see their efforts as very shortsighted, selfish and lacking in faith.
How they treat these poor among them is how they treat Jesus. The workers have convinced the friends that how you treat the convention grounds is how you treat Jesus. What you do for the convention grounds is for the overall good of God's people.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 16:43:06 GMT -5
You have heard this done and can provide other witnesses who have also heard it? Is this fact or hypothetical? It seems to cast suspicion on certain people you have made allegations about before. That would seem to be getting close to libel, if you cannot prove it is true. Wow, if this "hypothetical" scenario turned out to be largely true, that would make me a visionary, wouldn't it? Of course, there is the possibility that it isn't true. There is the possibility that the overseers in power actually do have a very high moral standard and are not hiding anything or protecting their buddies caught in compromising situations. But I am claiming that the overseers do not have a high moral standard. I am not saying that they are necessarily doing anything illegal. In fact, the laws of the land are their righteousness and they do a good job at keeping them for the most part with the help of the best lawyers they can afford with the friends' money(given to them for air conditioning at convention or something else honourable). Do you think that dishonesty in one area of life means that other areas of life are free of dishonesty? For example, if an overseer were claiming to be celibate but having legal affairs on the side, do you think that he would then be honest about acquiring and using the friend's money? Let's take any hint of illegal activity out of it. An overseer flying anywhere in the world to have consensual sex is not illegal. It isn't libel because we know that overseers are human and just as likely to do that as anyone. The workers are free to date any number of women and no one has the right to keep up with where they are and what they do with their money. They are independent individuals. Once the money is given to them, they are free to use it how they want. If they use it to date women, then the friends must just leave that up to God and do nothing about it or say nothing about it.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 20, 2012 16:45:43 GMT -5
and what if the money went to benefit one poor family instead of having air conditioning at convention? Cannot the workers see the power and blessing of sowing into the lives of one soul and giving encouragement? Barry Barkley went to a family to tell them not to expect help from the friends after a dishonest lawyer had cheated them out of pay for honest labour. Think of the impact that has on a family who loses. Now think of the opposite impact he could have if he had said that this world is evil but God's people stick together. You have our unlimited help and we will get you back on your feet. We will be like Jesus approved of in the "Good Samaritan" when he found the man beaten and robbed. But, Emy, you actually express very well the sentiment of the meetings. They see it as more beneficial to build buildings(and speak bad about other churches who do) and do corporate things for "the good of many" while trampling on the rights of the few. The workers do feel it is far better to put money into convention and spend their time in work projects preparing for four days of the year while there are individuals suffering. I see their efforts as very shortsighted, selfish and lacking in faith. How they treat these poor among them is how they treat Jesus. The workers have convinced the friends that how you treat the convention grounds is how you treat Jesus. What you do for the convention grounds is for the overall good of God's people. Why did Barry have to tell them not to expect help? Were they asking for help? Do you know for certain all the facts of this story are true? Do you know these people personally? If you do maybe you could give them some of your excess.
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 17:33:34 GMT -5
And on the other hand, if it gets spent to buy a suit to replace the one the worker was tired of and new shark-skin dress shoes because they're cool, it benefits no one, really. (True story - he's an overseer now.) Do you know if this is still a typical MO for him, or has he learned better management? No idea. Haven't seen him since the day he told me I was going to hell and was welcomed to come to gospel meetings to get re-saved but not to fellowship meetings. That was the same meeting when he told me that Harry Brownlee (god rest his soul) had been 'spoken to' about his inappropriate sexual behavior toward me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 17:49:58 GMT -5
Do you know if this is still a typical MO for him, or has he learned better management? No idea. Haven't seen him since the day he told me I was going to hell and was welcomed to come to gospel meetings to get re-saved but not to fellowship meetings. That was the same meeting when he told me that Harry Brownlee (god rest his soul) had been 'spoken to' about his inappropriate sexual behavior toward me. And not even an offer of sharkskin shoes to console you on your journey? Sounds as though "fair play" was not the order of the day as it related to you. Maybe the moral of the story is: never trust a guy who wears sharkskin shoes.
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 18:24:56 GMT -5
No idea. Haven't seen him since the day he told me I was going to hell and was welcomed to come to gospel meetings to get re-saved but not to fellowship meetings. That was the same meeting when he told me that Harry Brownlee (god rest his soul) had been 'spoken to' about his inappropriate sexual behavior toward me. And not even an offer of sharkskin shoes to console you on your journey? Sounds as though "fair play" was not the order of the day as it related to you. Maybe the moral of the story is: never trust a guy who wears sharkskin shoes. I know! What ever kept me from asking for my own pair of shark skin shoes, I'll never know! Check them out - quite snazzy - and worker-ish, in their own way!: www.classicshoesformen.com/shoes/neuwertig-allen-edmonds-haifisch-sharkskin-norweger-circa-1970-42cd
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 20, 2012 19:28:24 GMT -5
Emy, the whole point of this is, yes, you can put in air for a lot of people to enjoy. But, isn't that a church building duped a convention building. A building built with hands. And a building we have religious meetings in. And, you so willing contributed to a church building. Better do your sacrifice fast in fear that God will see you pass that buck.
Where is the committment to the verse, not to dwell in a building built by hands. Where is the committment to the preaching, we are penniless. We have nothing. Give all the money you would like. Let lots of people enjoy your sacrifice, but remember, it is only on earth. Jesus didn't have a double standard in his teachings. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have one overseer get up and state the amount of money spent that year before convention for what ever they felt they wanted to spend the money on. Of course the poor sitting in the group probably would never give anything again. I like when it is told about my grandfather, poor and lots of kids, only had two dollars but he gave it to the workers. And, yes they took it. As they say, a fool and his money soon part.
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Post by emy on Jul 20, 2012 19:36:30 GMT -5
Just fyi... I have read these posts.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 20:11:00 GMT -5
and what if the money went to benefit one poor family instead of having air conditioning at convention? Cannot the workers see the power and blessing of sowing into the lives of one soul and giving encouragement? Barry Barkley went to a family to tell them not to expect help from the friends after a dishonest lawyer had cheated them out of pay for honest labour. Think of the impact that has on a family who loses. Now think of the opposite impact he could have if he had said that this world is evil but God's people stick together. You have our unlimited help and we will get you back on your feet. We will be like Jesus approved of in the "Good Samaritan" when he found the man beaten and robbed. But, Emy, you actually express very well the sentiment of the meetings. They see it as more beneficial to build buildings(and speak bad about other churches who do) and do corporate things for "the good of many" while trampling on the rights of the few. The workers do feel it is far better to put money into convention and spend their time in work projects preparing for four days of the year while there are individuals suffering. I see their efforts as very shortsighted, selfish and lacking in faith. How they treat these poor among them is how they treat Jesus. The workers have convinced the friends that how you treat the convention grounds is how you treat Jesus. What you do for the convention grounds is for the overall good of God's people. Why did Barry have to tell them not to expect help? Were they asking for help? Do you know for certain all the facts of this story are true? Do you know these people personally? If you do maybe you could give them some of your excess. No, they were NOT expecting help nor did they ask for it. Barry took it upon himself unilaterally. Yes, I DO know this family All I have is theirs not of just my excess but of my very living. I consider them family because we are one in Christ. That is the way Jesus taught to give and that is the heart I have for this family. Is that out of line with Jesus' teaching?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 20:15:49 GMT -5
Wow, a couple pairs of these puppies, stored at the friends' houses, would raise no eyebrows and yet be a potential source of spare cash should times get rough. Oh you really blew it, my friend! So, the worker in question....did he store them as an investment or wear them? He might have just been saving up for a rainy day and wisely investing the "kingdom's cash."
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 20:17:59 GMT -5
Do you know if this is still a typical MO for him, or has he learned better management? No idea. Haven't seen him since the day he told me I was going to hell and was welcomed to come to gospel meetings to get re-saved but not to fellowship meetings. That was the same meeting when he told me that Harry Brownlee (god rest his soul) had been 'spoken to' about his inappropriate sexual behavior toward me. Did the overseer say that he was concerned with Harry Brownlee's salvation and that HE needed to go to gospel meetings and get resaved? Did the overseer, in other words, indicate what made you unsaved and made Harry Brownlee saved? And was it the shark skin shoes that gave him the authority to tell you that you were not saved?
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 20:28:50 GMT -5
No idea. Haven't seen him since the day he told me I was going to hell and was welcomed to come to gospel meetings to get re-saved but not to fellowship meetings. That was the same meeting when he told me that Harry Brownlee (god rest his soul) had been 'spoken to' about his inappropriate sexual behavior toward me. Did the overseer say that he was concerned with Harry Brownlee's salvation and that HE needed to go to gospel meetings and get resaved? Did the overseer, in other words, indicate what made you unsaved and made Harry Brownlee saved? And was it the shark skin shoes that gave him the authority to tell you that you were not saved? I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 20:31:13 GMT -5
Wow, take a look at these statements. No wonder it appeals to the "modesty" of this worker. "This material, among the rarest from which shoes can be made, far more rare than any Alligator shoe, possesses a quiet elegance that signal extremes of luxury without the slightest ostentation." And: "A glamourous shoe, extravagantly elegant in the handwork, finishing and materials and still absolutely understated and without a hint of ostentation." Gene, I am picturing that overseer walking around with his understated sharkskin shoes and not showing even a hint of ostentation. LOL!!! it kinda cracks me up.
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 20:39:54 GMT -5
Wow, take a look at these statements. No wonder it appeals to the "modesty" of this worker. "This material, among the rarest from which shoes can be made, far more rare than any Alligator shoe, possesses a quiet elegance that signal extremes of luxury without the slightest ostentation." And: "A glamourous shoe, extravagantly elegant in the handwork, finishing and materials and still absolutely understated and without a hint of ostentation." Gene, I am picturing that overseer walking around with his understated sharkskin shoes and not showing even a hint of ostentation. LOL!!! it kinda cracks me up. I can attest to his antinonostentatiousablessness.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 21:09:01 GMT -5
Did the overseer say that he was concerned with Harry Brownlee's salvation and that HE needed to go to gospel meetings and get resaved? Did the overseer, in other words, indicate what made you unsaved and made Harry Brownlee saved? And was it the shark skin shoes that gave him the authority to tell you that you were not saved? I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me. Well, he loved his younger companions. In South Africa he would preach in just about every meeting about the "red wine of youth coursing through their veins" giving the strength of their youth in the harvest field and how they were an inspiration to him. He really praised up his younger companion. And what if that weren't his only "lapse"? Is there anything that a worker can do(within the law) that is not forgivable? Shouldn't any worker be able to have even 7x70 affairs of any sort and still remain in the work just as forgiven as the next guy who didn't have sexual affairs but sins in other ways? I mean, how many workers would actually be left if all the ones guilty of sexual encounters were actually kicked out of the work?
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 21:13:09 GMT -5
I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me. Well, he loved his younger companions. In South Africa he would preach in just about every meeting about the "red wine of youth coursing through their veins" giving the strength of their youth in the harvest field and how they were an inspiration to him. He really praised up his younger companion. And what if that weren't his only "lapse"? Is there anything that a worker can do(within the law) that is not forgivable? Shouldn't any worker be able to have even 7x70 affairs of any sort and still remain in the work just as forgiven as the next guy who didn't have sexual affairs but sins in other ways? I mean, how many workers would actually be left if all the ones guilty of sexual encounters were actually kicked out of the work? Yes, I sat under the spell of his "red wine of youth" phrase at Happy Texas convention -- quite captivating, it was. I did truly appreciate the connection he made with us younger brothers. He seemed to understand... and he wasn't afraid to speak of the things we struggled with. He was like a breath of fresh air.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 21:17:12 GMT -5
However, the same friends who say that do not consider that workers not being accountable for the excess money actually can hurt many people for generations to come. For example, suppose this same overseer who called for money for convention upgrades used this excess money to intimidate women, sister workers and use the money to establish his position of trust among the friends and workers. How, exactly, would excess cash in hand enable the intimidation of women? I have seen this claim made a number of times. In all the time I have been associated with the F&W I do not recall anyone asking "Where is 'X'?" and not getting a reply. How many times has a worker actually boarded a plane to fly off, unknown, to someplace, had a sexual encounter with another person, and returned home a day or two later? Could you give an example of this 'deep and lasting damage' this could cause? I am not actually trying to convince anyone of anything. I am speaking to those who have believed the deception of the workers and submitted to them trustingly only to be abused. They made themselves vulnerable to what they thought were God's true servants in all sincerity only to be taken advantage of. I do not expect anyone who does not have the fear of God in them(not even overseers or workers) to have any sort of understanding or sympathy towards these victims. To them it is impossible to even explain the deep and lasting damage that such betrayal does to a person. So I am not going to try. However, to those who have experienced it and are reading here, I know that THEY understand and I say what I do to validate their experience. I know that there are many people who have seen the same things that I have seen and they cannot PROVE what they have seen and heard because these men doing these evil deeds are just too clever. However, I do know that their wickedness will be exposed and they will be revealed to be the liars and deceivers that they are.
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 21:21:46 GMT -5
Well, he loved his younger companions. In South Africa he would preach in just about every meeting about the "red wine of youth coursing through their veins" giving the strength of their youth in the harvest field and how they were an inspiration to him. He really praised up his younger companion. And what if that weren't his only "lapse"? Is there anything that a worker can do(within the law) that is not forgivable? Shouldn't any worker be able to have even 7x70 affairs of any sort and still remain in the work just as forgiven as the next guy who didn't have sexual affairs but sins in other ways? I mean, how many workers would actually be left if all the ones guilty of sexual encounters were actually kicked out of the work? Yes, I sat under the spell of his "red wine of youth" phrase at Happy Texas convention -- quite captivating, it was. I did truly appreciate the connection he made with us younger brothers. He seemed to understand... and he wasn't afraid to speak of the things we struggled with. He was like a breath of fresh air. Or, it could be a clever way of grooming. Speak of the things openly to draw out the ones who were "struggling" with the same things he was (not) struggling with. I experienced the same sort of grooming when in the work.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 20, 2012 21:51:31 GMT -5
Did the overseer say that he was concerned with Harry Brownlee's salvation and that HE needed to go to gospel meetings and get resaved? Did the overseer, in other words, indicate what made you unsaved and made Harry Brownlee saved? And was it the shark skin shoes that gave him the authority to tell you that you were not saved? I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me. Awww, all of this makes his removal as overseer in OK make sense....it was given out that he was catering to the rich folks in OK and ignoring the poor....but that would have been nearly impossible UNLESS he stayed 24/7 with the rich folks as there were far more poor folks then rich ones at that time. Just goes to show you at the lies that get invented to cover something no one wants the real truth known! If HB desired male companions, I think prehaps if he was discreet he'd get by with those things just as much as someone else sneaking in some sex from a female!
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Post by sharonw on Jul 20, 2012 21:54:28 GMT -5
Well, he loved his younger companions. In South Africa he would preach in just about every meeting about the "red wine of youth coursing through their veins" giving the strength of their youth in the harvest field and how they were an inspiration to him. He really praised up his younger companion. And what if that weren't his only "lapse"? Is there anything that a worker can do(within the law) that is not forgivable? Shouldn't any worker be able to have even 7x70 affairs of any sort and still remain in the work just as forgiven as the next guy who didn't have sexual affairs but sins in other ways? I mean, how many workers would actually be left if all the ones guilty of sexual encounters were actually kicked out of the work? Yes, I sat under the spell of his "red wine of youth" phrase at Happy Texas convention -- quite captivating, it was. I did truly appreciate the connection he made with us younger brothers. He seemed to understand... and he wasn't afraid to speak of the things we struggled with. He was like a breath of fresh air. Many of us loved to hear HB preach, he was another good charismatic preacher....
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Post by Greg on Jul 20, 2012 21:54:49 GMT -5
I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me. Awww, all of this makes his removal as overseer in OK make sense....it was given out that he was catering to the rich folks in OK and ignoring the poor....but that would have been nearly impossible UNLESS he stayed 24/7 with the rich folks as there were far more poor folks then rich ones at that time. Just goes to show you at the lies that get invented to cover something no one wants the real truth known! If HB desired male companions, I think prehaps if he was discreet he'd get by with those things just as much as someone else sneaking in some sex from a female! I heard Brownlee upset some overseers because he objected to Deitzel continuing in the work.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 20, 2012 22:01:39 GMT -5
Awww, all of this makes his removal as overseer in OK make sense....it was given out that he was catering to the rich folks in OK and ignoring the poor....but that would have been nearly impossible UNLESS he stayed 24/7 with the rich folks as there were far more poor folks then rich ones at that time. Just goes to show you at the lies that get invented to cover something no one wants the real truth known! If HB desired male companions, I think prehaps if he was discreet he'd get by with those things just as much as someone else sneaking in some sex from a female! I heard Brownlee upset some overseers because he objected to Deitzel continuing in the work. Didn't RD replace him as overseer? Or did William Peterson?
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Post by ts on Jul 20, 2012 22:04:29 GMT -5
I think the difference between Harry Brownlee and me which made him saved and me hell-bound is that I hooked up with a man and didn't hide the fact (yes, Baer, my partner of 15 years now) and Harry remained committed to the celibate ministry - and who knows? I may have been his only lapse in lo his 80-some years of living and 60-some years of ministry! Perhaps he repented and stayed on the 'straight' (so to speak) and narrow ever before and always since. I did not. Perhaps that's why I was hell-bound and Harry remained in the work. Who knows? Not me. Awww, all of this makes his removal as overseer in OK make sense....it was given out that he was catering to the rich folks in OK and ignoring the poor....but that would have been nearly impossible UNLESS he stayed 24/7 with the rich folks as there were far more poor folks then rich ones at that time. Just goes to show you at the lies that get invented to cover something no one wants the real truth known! If HB desired male companions, I think prehaps if he was discreet he'd get by with those things just as much as someone else sneaking in some sex from a female! Yes, homosexual relationships in the work get the same treatment as heterosexual ones. They just cover them up and move the workers around. I was victim of one such homosexual companion. He was known to have assaulted his younger companions in another country and then sent home. Then put back in the work as an older companion with responsibility only to groom the next guy(me) that came along. I can easily see how Harry could do something like groom younger companions. I never knew the guy but I have no problem recognizing the grooming process. I have said before, from my experience being groomed in the work, that were I to be able to go back in the work incognito I could easily find those workers who are homosexual. I got a lot of insight into that. I also had a companion who informed me of how the homosexual workers in third world countries seek each other out. It is not as uncommon as the friends would like to think it is.
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2012 22:15:41 GMT -5
Yes, I sat under the spell of his "red wine of youth" phrase at Happy Texas convention -- quite captivating, it was. I did truly appreciate the connection he made with us younger brothers. He seemed to understand... and he wasn't afraid to speak of the things we struggled with. He was like a breath of fresh air. Or, it could be a clever way of grooming. Speak of the things openly to draw out the ones who were "struggling" with the same things he was (not) struggling with. I experienced the same sort of grooming when in the work. In that respect, I guess it worked. It was because of his open conversation with us brothers about sexual struggles that I felt he was was the one worker I could confide in. Hmmmm.... guess I was naive. Never occurred to me that 'grooming' was what was going on. Nor, I suspect, did that occur to him.
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