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Post by poshirish on Dec 1, 2011 13:22:10 GMT -5
I would like to know...as a tax paying citizen...how do the 'workers' feel about them having lots of money and no money worries - how come they can go on expensive holidays (after all, that's what they go on, isn't it?!), while the rest of us 'no-bodies' are struggling so hard to survive and can hardly pay a mortgage nevermind a holiday?
Another question I'd like answered - as they're supposed to 'reach out'...why do they not do charity work, or give to charities...help those worse off than themselves. They always seem to be quick to judge all outside the 'meetings'...I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 5:12:18 GMT -5
I doubt very much that the workers take time to examine their feelings on the matter. They see themselves as meek homeless preachers going forth without purse and without script and acting merely as stewards of whatever funding happens to come their way. If you were to press them they would likely say something about freely giving and freely having received. They would also likely claim that what you deem to be money spent on holidays is in fact expenditure incurred to further the preaching of the word of God in line with their commission to go preach the gospel unto all the world. A pile of claptrap if you ask me, but there you are. As regards charitable acts the workers see themselves as being above that. They see their role being to preach the gospel according to their interpretation of Mathew 10 and that’s that. If you were to press them they’d likely give you something about the poor being with you always and the need for them to be about their father’s business. Like most bible based believers they can always pull a few lines of self-serving scripture out of their biblical hat to support their belief system should anyone feel moved to enquire. And like most there’s usually a touch of inevitable hypocrisy around. Never forget that the 2x2 church is no different to any other church. Once you get that everything else becomes clear. A big fat wad of money in the bank; originally started by a man; ownership of cars; covering up of sex crimes; mobile phones, laptops, smart suits, rules; organisation; jet setting; the list goes on. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck. Even if it thinks it’s a chicken. Matt10
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Post by poshirish on Dec 3, 2011 15:09:18 GMT -5
Well, maybe if they thought more about 'those less off than themselves', they might be more thought of! Plus, they only go on their holidays to other meetings/conventions...they don't go to 'reach out', and they're looked after and fed like they kings and queens!
Wonder what happened to all the money lost on the stock market?! And we're told from we're young that the 'workers' only get a little money...we weren't told that there's a 'bank account'! Why are people so deceiving? And so judgmental...surely there's only one person to judge anyone...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 17:17:31 GMT -5
Wonder what happened to all the money lost on the stock market?! And we're told from we're young that the 'workers' only get a little money...we weren't told that there's a 'bank account'! Why are people so deceiving? And so judgmental...surely there's only one person to judge anyone... The one good thing about growing old is that one learns not to believe all one was told when one was young. Whether it be bank accounts, homeless preachers, false churches, Father Christmas, talking donkeys, days of judgment, virgin births, resurrections or a history stretching back to the shores of Galilee, it's all up for grabs now. Matt10
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Post by onceuponatime on Feb 1, 2012 19:52:06 GMT -5
Never forget that the 2x2 church is no different to any other church. Once you get that everything else becomes clear. A big fat wad of money in the bank; originally started by a man; ownership of cars; covering up of sex crimes; mobile phones, laptops, smart suits, rules; organisation; jet setting; the list goes on. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck. Even if it thinks it’s a chicken
That sums it up entirely - no further elaboration needed
To the poshirish - keep your money in your pocket - dish it out to someone truely needy that you come across in first person - You will be rewarded well.
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Post by apple on Feb 8, 2012 0:30:21 GMT -5
I was truly sickened when I met the (Irish?) worker ** several years ago. She spoke of the extreme poverty of the people in Venezeula, showing photos of people standing beside wooden hovels in shabby clothes -- but clearly she had no shame in living off such poor people. It made me wonder how many of those had people to give up their their dinners to feed ** and her companion worker.
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Post by poshirish on Jun 30, 2012 7:43:42 GMT -5
Apple - exactly! And the same and similar 'workers' are looked upon as if they're something special because they 'work' in a foreign place... onceuponatime - don't worry, what little money I have I'll spend it how I feel fit - it won't be going anywhere near the 'cult'! Have to admit when I was in the meetings, I never did give to it, but saw my folks 'sneak' money into the hands of 'workers'. Am so glad I didn't! I like ducks!
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Post by stargazer on Jun 30, 2012 11:27:22 GMT -5
I was truly sickened when I met the (Irish?) worker ** several years ago. She spoke of the extreme poverty of the people in Venezeula, showing photos of people standing beside wooden hovels in shabby clothes -- but clearly she had no shame in living off such poor people. It made me wonder how many of those had people to give up their their dinners to feed ** and her companion worker. Unsubstantiated and speculative posts such as this are what is really "sickening". I wonder if this worker happened to be living in a ba.tch and if so where the funds originated that paid for it? This poster should get the facts before sharing personal bias.
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Jun 30, 2012 22:40:29 GMT -5
Would be a luxury not having to work and receiving money from others. All churches seem to be the same in thinking they have a right to money from others. Don't seem to have a conscience when receiving money from poor people. I only learnt recently of the bank accounts the workers have and always thought they were homeless without incomes and living by faith alone so guess it is just another lie.
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Post by apple on Jul 1, 2012 14:59:38 GMT -5
I was truly sickened when I met the (Irish?) worker ** several years ago. She spoke of the extreme poverty of the people in Venezeula, showing photos of people standing beside wooden hovels in shabby clothes -- but clearly she had no shame in living off such poor people. It made me wonder how many of those had people to give up their their dinners to feed ** and her companion worker. Unsubstantiated and speculative posts such as this are what is really "sickening". I wonder if this worker happened to be living in a ba.tch and if so where the funds originated that paid for it? This poster should get the facts before sharing personal bias. P** showed me photos of people she said she stayed with and it was clear from the photos that many were living in shockingly basic conditions; people who lived several hours trek from a town on the side of a mountain in a tiny two roomed shack, people wearing hand-me-down clothes and worn shoes, people after a meeting in their best clothes which look like hand-me-downs. ** boasted about how much SHE suffered living like that (suffering = holiness apparently but only if it involves workers). She choose to live like that and to live off the poor, taking their food, but those people do not have that choice and her living off them is contributing to their poverty.
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Post by guitar on Jul 17, 2014 15:19:52 GMT -5
I would like to know...as a tax paying citizen...how do the 'workers' feel about them having lots of money and no money worries - how come they can go on expensive holidays (after all, that's what they go on, isn't it?!), while the rest of us 'no-bodies' are struggling so hard to survive and can hardly pay a mortgage nevermind a holiday? Another question I'd like answered - as they're supposed to 'reach out'...why do they not do charity work, or give to charities...help those worse off than themselves. They always seem to be quick to judge all outside the 'meetings'...I wonder why? You are not suppossed to know. Alms are a private thing.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 17, 2014 17:45:37 GMT -5
I would like to know...as a tax paying citizen...how do the 'workers' feel about them having lots of money and no money worries - how come they can go on expensive holidays (after all, that's what they go on, isn't it?!), while the rest of us 'no-bodies' are struggling so hard to survive and can hardly pay a mortgage nevermind a holiday? Another question I'd like answered - as they're supposed to 'reach out'...why do they not do charity work, or give to charities...help those worse off than themselves. They always seem to be quick to judge all outside the 'meetings'...I wonder why? You are not suppossed to know. Alms are a private thing. Oh.... so you think that the workers do charity work? Or perhaps that they pass on money they have received to various charities?
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Post by Gene on Jul 18, 2014 5:27:32 GMT -5
You are not suppossed to know. Alms are a private thing. Oh.... so you think that the workers do charity work? Or perhaps that they pass on money they have received to various charities? I know one worker who passed on money to at least one charity. He was a big-hearted old oaf.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 18, 2014 10:52:04 GMT -5
The world needs more of those big hearted old oafs!!!
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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 18, 2014 16:59:01 GMT -5
The world needs more of those big hearted old oafs!!! I once received money from one of these big hearted old oafs because "as a young parent, building a home" I had "more use for it" than he did.
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Post by Gene on Jul 18, 2014 19:15:00 GMT -5
The world needs more of those big hearted old oafs!!! Exactly. Unfortunately, he died. Old folks tend to do that. But he lives on in me, bleeding heart liberal tax and spend welfare state entitlement promoting democrat that I am.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:41:58 GMT -5
Unsubstantiated and speculative posts such as this are what is really "sickening". I wonder if this worker happened to be living in a ba.tch and if so where the funds originated that paid for it? This poster should get the facts before sharing personal bias. ** showed me photos of people she said she stayed with and it was clear from the photos that many were living in shockingly basic conditions; people who lived several hours trek from a town on the side of a mountain in a tiny two roomed shack, people wearing hand-me-down clothes and worn shoes, people after a meeting in their best clothes which look like hand-me-downs. P** boasted about how much SHE suffered living like that (suffering = holiness apparently but only if it involves workers). She choose to live like that and to live off the poor, taking their food, but those people do not have that choice and her living off them is contributing to their poverty. Well, she obviously wasn't living in a bach with hot and cold running water at someone else's expense. That's the more common criticism of missionaries who go to poor countries. If she was living with them, she wasn't getting anything they couldn't afford.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:43:29 GMT -5
Oh.... so you think that the workers do charity work? Or perhaps that they pass on money they have received to various charities? I know one worker who passed on money to at least one charity. He was a big-hearted old oaf. I know of a few who have done charitable things too -- a long time ago and far far away, unfortunately.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 18, 2014 21:44:09 GMT -5
The world needs more of those big hearted old oafs!!! Nice picture, BTW.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 18, 2014 21:54:12 GMT -5
The world needs more of those big hearted old oafs!!! Nice picture, BTW. Golfing selfie picture with friends...... Hit across the lake, drive the carts onto a pontoon barge, and it takes you across. The trick was to hit it across..... LOL!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2014 1:30:37 GMT -5
I know one worker who passed on money to at least one charity. He was a big-hearted old oaf. I know of a few who have done charitable things too -- a long time ago and far far away, unfortunately. I don't know how much money the workers have today.
My father was in the the work in KY in the late twenties and I do know that they weren't rolling in wealth at that time. Of course the people around them weren't wealthy either.
They didn't always even have enough to eat.
Whatever is going on now, it wasn't always so.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2014 1:33:31 GMT -5
Golfing selfie picture with friends...... Hit across the lake, drive the carts onto a pontoon barge, and it takes you across. The trick was to hit it across..... LOL! Who is that nice looking lady in pink that you side lined almost out of the picture? Does your wife know about her?
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Post by snow on Jul 19, 2014 9:51:05 GMT -5
I know of a few who have done charitable things too -- a long time ago and far far away, unfortunately. I don't know how much money the workers have today.
My father was in the the work in KY in the late twenties and I do know that they weren't rolling in wealth at that time. Of course the people around them weren't wealthy either.
They didn't always even have enough to eat.
Whatever is going on now, it wasn't always so.
I would have to agree with that. When my father's family heard the truth, the workers came and spent the winter living with them on their ranch. Dad remembers them working just as hard as the other hired hands. I think, from what I have heard here, that things have changed. No one had money during the depression so I imagine neither did they. Even when I was a kid, I remember workers helping out on the farm when they visited. I was used to seeing them do stuff.
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Post by faune on Jul 19, 2014 10:54:39 GMT -5
I doubt very much that the workers take time to examine their feelings on the matter. They see themselves as meek homeless preachers going forth without purse and without script and acting merely as stewards of whatever funding happens to come their way. If you were to press them they would likely say something about freely giving and freely having received. They would also likely claim that what you deem to be money spent on holidays is in fact expenditure incurred to further the preaching of the word of God in line with their commission to go preach the gospel unto all the world. A pile of claptrap if you ask me, but there you are. As regards charitable acts the workers see themselves as being above that. They see their role being to preach the gospel according to their interpretation of Mathew 10 and that’s that. If you were to press them they’d likely give you something about the poor being with you always and the need for them to be about their father’s business. Like most bible based believers they can always pull a few lines of self-serving scripture out of their biblical hat to support their belief system should anyone feel moved to enquire. And like most there’s usually a touch of inevitable hypocrisy around. Never forget that the 2x2 church is no different to any other church. Once you get that everything else becomes clear. A big fat wad of money in the bank; originally started by a man; ownership of cars; covering up of sex crimes; mobile phones, laptops, smart suits, rules; organisation; jet setting; the list goes on. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck. Even if it thinks it’s a chicken. Matt10 Matt10 ~ I read this old post of yours going back to 2011 and got more than a few chuckles from its contents! Thanks for making my morning as I enjoyed my first cup of coffee!
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Post by faune on Jul 19, 2014 11:01:06 GMT -5
I don't know how much money the workers have today.
My father was in the the work in KY in the late twenties and I do know that they weren't rolling in wealth at that time. Of course the people around them weren't wealthy either.
They didn't always even have enough to eat.
Whatever is going on now, it wasn't always so.
I would have to agree with that. When my father's family heard the truth, the workers came and spent the winter living with them on their ranch. Dad remembers them working just as hard as the other hired hands. I think, from what I have heard here, that things have changed. No one had money during the depression so I imagine neither did they. Even when I was a kid, I remember workers helping out on the farm when they visited. I was used to seeing them do stuff. I also remember the workers helping out back in the early 1960's when I first professed. They didn't seem to have all the "stuff" they enjoy today along with the fleet cars that are provided in certain areas of the country and all their electronic devices. Times have really changed since Internet came on the scene along with E-mail. However, their money has to come from somewhere, although usually they are given a stipend to start out their mission after convention rounds. How much that might be, I have no idea. However, there must be a few wealthy friends keeping them afloat by the looks of it?
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Post by emy on Jul 19, 2014 17:05:20 GMT -5
Here's the clue:
I think, from what I have heard here, that things have changed. No one had money during the depression so I imagine neither did they. (Thanks, Sharon)
Wouldn't it be quite sad if the workers had as little as years ago when the congregation is, for the most part, prosperous?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2014 17:37:42 GMT -5
By now I think most of you understand that I am not only an ex-2x2, but I am also an atheist.
I do question all the information put out about the workers having a lot of cars & electronic devices more than the people that they work amongst.
I am not saying that they don't, I just wonder how much of what we hear is speculation or actual knowledge.
After doing a lot understanding of the research of the 2x2's, thanks to Cheri, and what I had heard as I was growing up; I begin to research the many aspects of ALL religion; the history, the psychology surrounding the apparent need for people to believe in the supernatural aspects of religion.
I actually don't believe that the 2x2's are much different than any other Christian religions. I doubt there is that much difference between all of them.
I don't support the 2x2's methods of treating people but neither do I support the methods of Christianity in all it's myriad forms.
The whole idea that humankind is flawed and needs a "blood sacrifice" in the form of their God's having his "own beloved son killed to save mankind" is nothing more that an artifice to make people feel guilty and acquiesce to being controlled.
That same idea has been used from time immemorial and for the same reason, to control people.
I don't believe there is any TRUE Church, 2x2's or any other, -but I don't believe that the 2x2's are any worse than others.
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Post by xna on Jul 19, 2014 18:44:15 GMT -5
By now I think most of you understand that I am not only an ex-2x2, but I am also an atheist.
I do question all the information put out about the workers having a lot of cars & electronic devices more than the people that they work amongst.
I am not saying that they don't, I just wonder how much of what we hear is speculation or actual knowledge.
After doing a lot understanding of the research of the 2x2's, thanks to Cheri, and what I had heard as I was growing up; I begin to research the many aspects of ALL religion; the history, the psychology surrounding the apparent need for people to believe in the supernatural aspects of religion.
I actually don't believe that the 2x2's are much different than any other Christian religions. I doubt there is that much difference between all of them.
I don't support the 2x2's methods of treating people but neither do I support the methods of Christianity in all it's myriad forms.
The whole idea that humankind is flawed and needs a "blood sacrifice" in the form of their God's having his "own beloved son killed to save mankind" is nothing more that an artifice to make people feel guilty and acquiesce to being controlled.
That same idea has been used from time immemorial and for the same reason, to control people.
I don't believe there is any TRUE Church, 2x2's or any other, -but I don't believe that the 2x2's are any worse than others. JMT dmmichgood - I pretty much see it like you except; I would lump the 2x2 along with the "high demand and more exclusive sects" such as Mormons or JW. I see these as more harmful than say, the Methodist. Also those that promote salvation by faith do less harm than those that promote mainly works. I see the hold of religious mainly coming from; early indoctrination based on when and where you were born, an appeal to our tribal tendency. Goering made some interesting observations on how people are controlled. He had some experience in creating a mass delusion by invoking the "fight or flight response": in religion it's: Fear god, Fear the devil - he is the enemy trying to take your soul to hell, you are safe with god - you must stay inside the camp, god will protect you, trust and obey, you are either with us or against us, and so on. The key is to unite the people "against someone or something", then make it a high contrast black and white world with no middle ground. If you stop and think about the Christian god story, it's really crazy - but that's against the rules "lean not on your understanding". :-)
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