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Post by las logged out on Mar 10, 2007 11:56:00 GMT -5
My first gospel mtgs. were with Clarence Hunt and Robert Covlin
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 7, 2007 18:05:27 GMT -5
I have now heard from a third source that Reuben Mata passed away this past week from cancer.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2007 19:59:48 GMT -5
Cherie,
According to information I received today, Reuben passed away due to complications resulting from cancer. Although I am not positive, it appears that he had kidney cancer. Also, as of a few weeks before passing away, it appears that he was not repentant for the damage he had done to the many lives of the young men and boys who he molested.
His service will be performed by a two Spanish speaking workers. I do not have information as to when and where the service will be conducted.
Scott
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 7, 2007 21:06:15 GMT -5
That is SO sad Scott that he didn't feel his need of repentance for what he had done. You would think that if anything would draw you to repentance and to make things right, would be your imminent death. However, given the nature of pedophilia, it is understandable how he didn't recognise his wrongdoing and therefore didn't feel his need to repent.
Sad for him and sad for all his victims and their families.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2007 21:21:32 GMT -5
Someone mentioned in an email to me how we would know whether he had repented or not. Truth is... we don't. That statement is based on conversation with someone who had visited with Reuben.
In reality of course we do NOT know if he was repentant. Hope nobody feels I was passing judgment there, as I did not feel the one who gave me the information was passing judgment either.
Scott
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Post by juliette on Oct 7, 2007 22:11:03 GMT -5
That will be an interesting funeral! I wonder what the workers will have to say?!
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lizzy
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Post by lizzy on Oct 7, 2007 22:54:50 GMT -5
The workers will say Ruben is in the hands of a just God. That way there is no judging and it is true. God is just. We will get what we deserve.
And of course it will be a gospel meeting.
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Post by nitro on Oct 7, 2007 23:01:58 GMT -5
juliette I never hear them speak to much on the person.Its used more for a gospel meeting.Family's grieving while they try to save the lost relatives. nitro
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Post by even on Oct 7, 2007 23:18:15 GMT -5
they try to save the lost relatives. ...even the relatives who are already saved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 9:02:02 GMT -5
I see that there is a question directed to me a number of posts ago from way back in February -- about the senior workers efforts to cover up the sexual abuse behavior of this [deleted] worker in California, before the case was dealt with by the court system. The thought was that 'we need to do something about this cover-up policy within the group'
I believe the senior worker (DM) responsible at that time has passed away since then.
However right at the moment there is an ex-worker who left the work in [deleted] because of sexual abuse of minors, who then moved to Saskatchewan where the workers have put a total block on any information on what has happened. -- The senior worker responsible in [deleted] -- In Saskatchewan I believe the responsible worker is Jim Atcheson.
This is a relatively fresh case -- yet the policy is the same as it has been the last 50 years -- yet it doesn't seem that anyone in the group still is willing to 'make the fuss' that would be neccesary to make a change. Apparently children are expendable -- the testimony of the group isn't!! Quite a philosophy!!
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Post by ll on Oct 8, 2007 9:40:05 GMT -5
I see that there is a question directed to me a number of posts ago from way back in February -- about the senior workers efforts to cover up the sexual abuse behavior of this [deleted] worker in California, before the case was dealt with by the court system. The thought was that 'we need to do something about this cover-up policy within the group' I believe the senior worker (DM) responsible at that time has passed away since then. However right at the moment there is an ex-worker who left the work in [deleted] because of sexual abuse of minors, who then moved to Saskatchewan where the workers have put a total block on any information on what has happened. -- The senior worker responsible in [deleted] -- In Saskatchewan I believe the responsible worker is Jim Atcheson. This is a relatively fresh case -- yet the policy is the same as it has been the last 50 years -- yet it doesn't seem that anyone in the group still is willing to 'make the fuss' that would be neccesary to make a change. Apparently children are expendable -- the testimony of the group isn't!! Quite a philosophy!! Everything in Sask is so quiet you can almost here a pin dropI'll be on my toes...I will not ask anyone because i know nobody will ever tell me nothing anyway
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 10:06:38 GMT -5
Edgar wrote:
This is a relatively fresh case -- yet the policy is the same as it has been the last 50 years -- yet it doesn't seem that anyone in the group still is willing to 'make the fuss' that would be neccesary to make a change. Apparently children are expendable -- the testimony of the group isn't!! Quite a philosophy!!
It should come as little surprise to you Edgar that things haven't changed in 50 years and that our children remain expendable. After 40 years you continue to defend the likes of the late Messrs. Lee and Hunt in spite of a mound of evidence regarding their activities. Like yourself, many friends continue to have trouble discerning the truth from fiction even when faced with the facts.
Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly and you don't want to admit it? Please put your biases aside Edgar, you could be a great help to many if you did.
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Post by It Appears on Oct 8, 2007 10:42:31 GMT -5
Edgar wrote: This is a relatively fresh case -- yet the policy is the same as it has been the last 50 years -- yet it doesn't seem that anyone in the group still is willing to 'make the fuss' that would be neccesary to make a change. Apparently children are expendable -- the testimony of the group isn't!! Quite a philosophy!! It should come as little surprise to you Edgar that things haven't changed in 50 years and that our children remain expendable. After 40 years you continue to defend the likes of the late Messrs. Lee and Hunt in spite of a mound of evidence regarding their activities. Like yourself, many friends continue to have trouble discerning the truth from fiction even when faced with the facts. Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly and you don't want to admit it? Please put your biases aside Edgar, you could be a great help to many if you did. It is no fiction when the group as a whole continues to weld so much control over its members that they are reluctant to speak about anything which is contrary to the group mindset. It is not only children who are misused and abbused. Many young adults have been abused. Yet the group as a whole contiunes to look at the victims as if they did something wrong. Heaven forbid that any should lay accusation towards another saint or worker. There are very few issues handled in an upright manner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 14:37:34 GMT -5
One thing that is a 2x2 identifier in their never ending sex abuse scandals is the super hush-hush way that suspected perpetrators are either whisked off to less suspecting fields, or banished to oblivian without even the most basic kind of oppurtunity for explanation. (whatever suits the politics of the moment best!!)
I can agree with the heading on another thread -- that what is wrong with a cult that will banish their own membership for owning a TV, ridicule folks for the wrong length of hair- - and yet shelter child abusers --- and still call themselves Christian!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 15:04:41 GMT -5
Does anyone have a rough idea how many workers have come to light in connection with sexual abuse scandals (all kinds) since say the year 2007 ? This includes incidents from years before hand which have only surfaced in recent years and those incidents where reasonable suspicion is involved.
I'm not looking for details, names or even precise figures but an off the top of the head figure, e.g. single numbers, tens, scores etc, just to get a working idea of the scale of the problem.
It seems that most of these incidents are surfacing in the USA ?
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Post by historian on Oct 8, 2007 16:07:28 GMT -5
Clearday - You've got to be kidding with this sentence right?? Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly Handled correctly? ? Please
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 16:29:22 GMT -5
Clearday - You've got to be kidding with this sentence right?? Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly Handled correctly? ? PleaseWhat's your problem with that statement?
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Post by wondering1 on Oct 8, 2007 19:04:37 GMT -5
I just did a Google search of the R.M. name and came up with the first 2 blurbs from the Fresnobee of a Ruben Rosales Mata age 62, minister, and the funeral being today. Does this sound like the right age etc? Nothing else said except something about some city in CA.
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Post by YES on Oct 8, 2007 19:08:21 GMT -5
YES, THAT SOUNDS CORRECT, AGEWISE.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 8, 2007 20:11:56 GMT -5
MATA, RUBEN ROSALES -- Services for Ruben Rosales Mata, 62, of Parlier will be at 10 a.m. Monday, October 8 at Wallin's Parlier Funeral Home. Mr. Mata, a minister, died Tuesday, October 2, 2007.
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Post by juliette on Oct 8, 2007 20:59:33 GMT -5
That's interesting that his profession was listed as "minister". I suppose no one wanted "convicted child molester" listed in the obit?
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Post by nitro on Oct 8, 2007 21:40:21 GMT -5
62 yr old that was young. I bet he didn't obey his parents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 21:50:26 GMT -5
Clearday - You've got to be kidding with this sentence right?? Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly Handled correctly? ? PleaseIn the cryptic 2x2 terminoligy "handled correctly" means "has been handled in such a way as to protect the 2x2 image of being exclusively right with God."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 22:02:16 GMT -5
Clearday - You've got to be kidding with this sentence right?? Perhaps you are having trouble with the Syd Lee case since it is the last time the church handled one of these cases correctly Handled correctly? ? PleaseIn the cryptic 2x2 terminoligy "handled correctly" means "has been handled in such a way as to protect the 2x2 image of being exclusively right with God." "cryptic" only to you Edgar. This matter was dealt with openly amongst a wide range of elders. If it could have been done in a more embarassing way, not "protect the 2x2 image", they would have had to take out a full page newspaper ad for all the world to know about our senior pedophile worker.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 8, 2007 22:31:22 GMT -5
SOOO agree, Clearday. Some people's children. ;D
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Post by well on Oct 9, 2007 19:45:39 GMT -5
In the cryptic 2x2 terminoligy "handled correctly" means "has been handled in such a way as to protect the 2x2 image of being exclusively right with God." "cryptic" only to you Edgar. This matter was dealt with openly amongst a wide range of elders. If it could have been done in a more embarassing way, not "protect the 2x2 image", they would have had to take out a full page newspaper ad for all the world to know about our senior pedophile worker. Can someone else be witness to this claim? Anybody? If in fact it was handled as Clearday claims, then there should be someone else who knows about it!?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2007 20:54:58 GMT -5
We have been around this mulberry bush once before on this board, earlier this year. You will find others saying similar things on one of the Mata threads. Good luck finding it though. In today's context, I think we would agree that it wasn't handled to our current standards. In fact, we don't even know what our current standards are, things are still evolving on how this should be handled. Just look at the various state statutes and you will find plenty of variety there that will testify to the inconsistencies in our modern society. All that being said, Syd's activities were brought out into the light to a large number of elders and he was not tolerated at all by the church. There was little opposition to his complete removal from the church. This was a righteous departure from the pattern of coverups and shuffling of molesters that has characterized our church for decades. "cryptic" only to you Edgar. This matter was dealt with openly amongst a wide range of elders. If it could have been done in a more embarassing way, not "protect the 2x2 image", they would have had to take out a full page newspaper ad for all the world to know about our senior pedophile worker. Can someone else be witness to this claim? Anybody? If in fact it was handled as Clearday claims, then there should be someone else who knows about it!?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 10, 2007 19:36:03 GMT -5
So... how long did Mata serve of his 36 yrs?
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