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Post by tom on Nov 4, 2011 11:46:25 GMT -5
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Post by alexander on Nov 4, 2011 13:36:32 GMT -5
Welcome to my nightmare.
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Post by tom on Nov 4, 2011 14:34:29 GMT -5
I posted this on the wrong board. How do you move it. Help!
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Post by quizzer on Nov 4, 2011 17:40:10 GMT -5
Unfortunately, tom, your experience is being very normal and acceptable in professing circles. Statutory rape is not considered a bad idea among the elders. They're very happy to arrange for underage professing girls to date professing gentlemen over the legal age. They'll even make the arrangements for these couples to meet, even if professing parents and guardians agree. There are no boundaries for these activities anymore.
If you place the law above the fellowship, then you are quickly admonished about how you do not love the fellowship. It's crazy, it's sad, and it's immoral. You would have thought that the CSA scandals would straighten out the friends and workers, but no.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 4, 2011 19:33:04 GMT -5
I posted this on the wrong board. How do you move it. Help! Magic.....
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Post by Done4now on Nov 4, 2011 19:43:58 GMT -5
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Post by sharonw on Nov 4, 2011 19:46:36 GMT -5
Unfortunately, tom, your experience is being very normal and acceptable in professing circles. Statutory rape is not considered a bad idea among the elders. They're very happy to arrange for underage professing girls to date professing gentlemen over the legal age. They'll even make the arrangements for these couples to meet, even if professing parents and guardians agree. There are no boundaries for these activities anymore. If you place the law above the fellowship, then you are quickly admonished about how you do not love the fellowship. It's crazy, it's sad, and it's immoral. You would have thought that the CSA scandals would straighten out the friends and workers, but no. Could some of the stances present day workers are taking actually rebellion against their own sexual scandals and crimes. They don't like their carpet torn up?
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Post by quizzer on Nov 5, 2011 1:45:22 GMT -5
The catch phrase is "encouraging the young folks."
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Post by rational on Nov 5, 2011 2:33:30 GMT -5
Statutory rape is not considered a bad idea among the elders. It is statements like this that brings a cloud of doubt regarding the veracity of everything you post. Do you have a single bit of data to support your claim? Dating a younger person is not statutory rape.
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Post by rational on Nov 5, 2011 2:36:47 GMT -5
I called the workers the next day and ask if they would come and talk to us and I express how upset I was about this situation. This appears to be a social issue. Why would you even thinking of getting the workers involved?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 7:42:35 GMT -5
I called the workers the next day and ask if they would come and talk to us and I express how upset I was about this situation. This appears to be a social issue. Why would you even thinking of getting the workers involved? I presume that is a rhetorical question and if so, it is a good one. However, if it is a genuine question, it indicates very little understanding how the 2x2 culture actually operates. What Tom did is a commonplace (but not universal) reaction to her circumstances. It is part of the subject of worker-focus that we have discussed countless times here.
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Post by tom on Nov 5, 2011 9:07:23 GMT -5
Thanks for reminding me to have control over my own house. I have never tried to do that! That is why I pleaded with the police in the town this happened in to arrest my son. The elders son towed the car to his property and got rid of the car before the police could see it. How is that my control. Have you had a 17 year old lately??? I tried hard to make my son accountable for his actions. While my son was interviewed by a counselor from the state he admitted to drinking at the elders house with the elder's son, daughter and a 25year old man in our meeting. This happened on a weekend while the parents where gone. Number 1 my son knew as well as the elder and his wife that we would not have let him stay at their house if they were not there. Number 2 we do not allow our children to drink. 3 of them were under age. Why did we allow our son at their house? It was something we agonized about for years. When we kept our son from being there we would get calls from their son asking when our son could come over. The elder would badger us after meeting as to when our son could stay. We had spoke to the workers about our concerns with the family 5 years before. We were told we "had enough sins of our own." They did not want to hear anymore. I was too conservative for the meeting we went to. The elders wife was always making comments about my clothes and how strict I was with my children. I was not and still am not my children' s friend. That is a rare thing around these parts. So thanks for the encouragement . I will try and do better with my other children. I will keep them away from the "friends and workers."
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Post by ronhall on Nov 5, 2011 9:46:47 GMT -5
Sticky situation, Tom. Children grow up and become independent. As that occurs they often shift their attention from pleasing their parents to pleasing their peers. That process cannot be stopped any more than the rotation of the earth cannot be slowed to give us more hours in the day.
It appears that you are comfortable with the upbringing you had a part in accomplishing for them, and that is good. While it appears all your effort in this might be lost, it really never is lost.
For a scriptural account of this you might read the parable that is known as the "Prodigal Son". Yes, in that parable, much was lost. But the love of the parent was never compromised, nor was the respect for the parent compromised.
The son knew he would be again received, if he returned. Knowing the damage he had inflicted to the relationship, he knew he must change his attitude before he attempted to return. He did and that made-all-the-difference!
Your part in all this is to "Be strong and be of good courage".
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Post by irvinegrey on Nov 5, 2011 10:50:08 GMT -5
Sticky situation, Tom. Children grow up and become independent. As that occurs they often shift their attention from pleasing their parents to pleasing their peers. That process cannot be stopped any more than the rotation of the earth cannot be slowed to give us more hours in the day. It appears that you are comfortable with the upbringing you had a part in accomplishing for them, and that is good. While it appears all your effort in this might be lost, it really never is lost. For a scriptural account of this you might read the parable that is known as the "Prodigal Son". Yes, in that parable, much was lost. But the love of the parent was never compromised, nor was the respect for the parent compromised. The son knew he would be again received, if he returned. Knowing the damage he had inflicted to the relationship, he knew he must change his attitude before he attempted to return. He did and that made-all-the-difference! Your part in all this is to "Be strong and be of good courage". A compassionate and thoughtful response Ronhall. Speaking of the parable of the Prodigal Son I could recommend Tim Kelller's book, that is for 2x2s who secretly read forbidden books!
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Post by quizzer on Nov 5, 2011 11:10:15 GMT -5
The problem is that 2x2 parents raise their children to respect the workers/elders. Unfortunately, the 2x2s also have a culture which allows the workers to run roughshod over the friends. These days, elders are getting into the act.
Within the 2x2s, it's imperative to attend meetings. That's all. Since the meetings are shrinking, there is a growing concern to attract as many warm bodies as possible to the meetings. (Not outsider adults, but impressionable young folk.) The young folk are given a very permissive environment, if the friends and workers like them, so that they will stay in the meetings. If the parents object, well then, the parents will be labelled as having a bad spirit.
That being said, the best advice is to discuss the issue with other parents (professing or not) if their children are involved. Maybe they care, maybe not. Discuss the issue with the authorities. Not all of the behaviors are illegal, but they are definitely on the illegal edge. Unfortunately, it looks like the elder is going to be the "fun" professing person while the parents deal with any legal/financial/medical issues that can result from the "fun."
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Post by alexander on Nov 5, 2011 13:16:49 GMT -5
Thanks for reminding me to have control over my own house. I have never tried to do that! That is why I pleaded with the police in the town this happened in to arrest my son. The elders son towed the car to his property and got rid of the car before the police could see it. How is that my control. Have you had a 17 year old lately??? I tried hard to make my son accountable for his actions. While my son was interviewed by a counselor from the state he admitted to drinking at the elders house with the elder's son, daughter and a 25year old man in our meeting. This happened on a weekend while the parents where gone. Number 1 my son knew as well as the elder and his wife that we would not have let him stay at their house if they were not there. Number 2 we do not allow our children to drink. 3 of them were under age. Why did we allow our son at their house? It was something we agonized about for years. When we kept our son from being there we would get calls from their son asking when our son could come over. The elder would badger us after meeting as to when our son could stay. We had spoke to the workers about our concerns with the family 5 years before. We were told we "had enough sins of our own." They did not want to hear anymore. I was too conservative for the meeting we went to. The elders wife was always making comments about my clothes and how strict I was with my children. I was not and still am not my children' s friend. That is a rare thing around these parts. So thanks for the encouragement . I will try and do better with my other children. I will keep them away from the "friends and workers." "Have control over your own house" is just a way to demonize you. The same could have been said to Adam and Eve. They should have had better control over their house (right? bleh) - Cain was quite the scondrel- but I imagine that they raised Abel- who was righteous- in the exact same way. Wisdom is justified of her children. Try to keep your chin up. I know that it is hard.
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Post by alexander on Nov 5, 2011 13:23:07 GMT -5
Thanks for reminding me to have control over my own house. I have never tried to do that! That is why I pleaded with the police in the town this happened in to arrest my son. The elders son towed the car to his property and got rid of the car before the police could see it. How is that my control. Have you had a 17 year old lately??? I tried hard to make my son accountable for his actions. While my son was interviewed by a counselor from the state he admitted to drinking at the elders house with the elder's son, daughter and a 25year old man in our meeting. This happened on a weekend while the parents where gone. Number 1 my son knew as well as the elder and his wife that we would not have let him stay at their house if they were not there. Number 2 we do not allow our children to drink. 3 of them were under age. Why did we allow our son at their house? It was something we agonized about for years. When we kept our son from being there we would get calls from their son asking when our son could come over. The elder would badger us after meeting as to when our son could stay. We had spoke to the workers about our concerns with the family 5 years before. We were told we "had enough sins of our own." They did not want to hear anymore. I was too conservative for the meeting we went to. The elders wife was always making comments about my clothes and how strict I was with my children. I was not and still am not my children' s friend. That is a rare thing around these parts. So thanks for the encouragement . I will try and do better with my other children. I will keep them away from the "friends and workers." Prosecutors may rarely prosecute statutory rape between kids within 2 or three years of each other. (IE 16 and 17, 16 and 18 or 19) I was on a grand jury and the DA said that. Once the age range difference gets up to 5 years- then they really take notice of statutory rape- but technically- they don't have to- and they have prosecuted without the age difference- but it is more rare.
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Post by ronhall on Nov 5, 2011 15:11:19 GMT -5
A compassionate and thoughtful response Ronhall. Speaking of the parable of the Prodigal Son I could recommend Tim Kelller's book, that is for 2x2s who secretly read forbidden books! Are you referring to the book, "The Prodigal God: Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith" by Tim Keller? It does have a 'catchy' title. Who is it that is forbidding it being read and why do you recommend that I read it?
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Post by quizzer on Nov 5, 2011 15:15:07 GMT -5
C'mon, ronhall! When's the last time a worker recommended that the friends start reading Christian inspirational books?
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Post by emy on Nov 5, 2011 16:21:06 GMT -5
"Not recommending" is hardly the same thing as forbidding.
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Post by ronhall on Nov 5, 2011 16:26:46 GMT -5
C'mon, ronhall! When's the last time a worker recommended that the friends start reading Christian inspirational books? Last time? How about the first time? :>)
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lauri
Senior Member
Posts: 324
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Post by lauri on Nov 5, 2011 16:54:37 GMT -5
Does your son plan to go on to college? any police record may screw up financial aid... unfortunately, it's difficult to start talks at 17, the talks (of his future) should have begun in early childhood, but I would try to get him to see that he is limiting his own possibilities for his future! the damage he is doing is to himself.
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Post by Done4now on Nov 5, 2011 19:00:08 GMT -5
From the title of the thread as well as most of the OP, I thought the OP was making a case for the workers interfering with her parenting, getting her son off-track and encouraging him to do immoral and illegal things. Now it's the elder she's blaming.
I have trouble buying it.
Teenagers often go through a rebellious phase. And they will tend to hang with like-minded people.
If your son is rebelling then if the elder's son was a real "straight arrow" then your son would likely be getting in trouble with friends he knew from somewhere else. I feel for you there.
But as far as blaming the workers--nothing you said really supported the thread title. The workers seemed reluctant to get involved and then the advice they gave when forced to get involved did not involve encouraging anything illegal or immoral.
Has it become the fashion for professing folks to blame the workers for everything?
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Post by quizzer on Nov 5, 2011 19:23:25 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems that tom's son and the elder's son have been up to some bad doings. The elder tends to condone this activity. The workers tell tom to put up with the behavior and be nice about it.
Tough pill to swallow while tom is being villified by the same folks who are condoning her son's behavior.
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Post by Done4now on Nov 5, 2011 19:29:38 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems that tom's son and the elder's son have been up to some bad doings. The elder tends to condone this activity. The workers tell tom to put up with the behavior and be nice about it. Tough pill to swallow while tom is being villified by the same folks who are condoning her son's behavior. thanks. So it seems the elder is more of a "worker-buddy" (to quote my friend quizzer). the workers I know hate it when people who have personal/familial problems come to them trying to blame other professing people and trying to drag the workers into it and force them to take sides. Is it clear that the elder is more of a "worker buddy" and that his side has been taken? or is it possible that both were told something similar--forgive each other, get along, get past this etc etc...?
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Post by quizzer on Nov 5, 2011 19:58:04 GMT -5
I've seen this behavior pattern with about 5 professing families. The "forgive each other, get along" advice is usually given to one side of the dispute. The "worker buddy" is usually praised for their bravery through these trials, their work with the young folks, their ability to be a shining example for all to follow.
The other side (usually parents or guardians) are told to get their act together. They're being fuddy-duddies, old fogies (yes, the workers and worker buddies will use these terms), and need to allow their children to be irresponsible with no repercussions.
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Post by Done4now on Nov 5, 2011 20:04:29 GMT -5
wow!
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Post by emy on Nov 5, 2011 20:29:05 GMT -5
I've seen this behavior pattern with about 5 professing families. The "forgive each other, get along" advice is usually given to one side of the dispute. The "worker buddy" is usually praised for their bravery through these trials, their work with the young folks, their ability to be a shining example for all to follow. The other side (usually parents or guardians) are told to get their act together. They're being fuddy-duddies, old fogies (yes, the workers and worker buddies will use these terms), and need to allow their children to be irresponsible with no repercussions. Quizzer, I need some concrete example of this sort of worker behavior. No names or identities, just examples from reality. I wonder if the elder in tom's case is thinking it may be better for a couple of friends' kids to be messing around together rather than getting into even more undesirable company? And allowing them to spend time together at his home? I see that the elder and his wife aren't making totally wise choices, however, but like someone else said, if a 17 yo is rebelling, s/he will do it SOMEWHERE.
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