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Post by philsmiley on Aug 3, 2011 16:04:39 GMT -5
Following a recent meeting, I would like to clarify that those with responsibilities in the work in Ireland, both Tommie Gamble and Craig Fulton would encourage any victims of child abuse to come forward and not to hesitate in reporting such incidents of child abuse to the police. In order to put a stop to any speculation, it should be noted that the worker in question has been removed from the ministry and will no longer be attending meetings in the future; this has been made clear to the elderly worker involved.
After the workers name was initially removed from the workers field list in 2010 a misunderstanding arose, both Tommie and Craig are sorry that this occurred and that the removed worker appeared in the workers photo again at Fermanagh convention in 2011. These issues have been taken seriously and to any victims; please do not be afraid to approach the workers in Ireland in regards to this issue. The workers have a deep concern for those affected by the abuse and seek to find resolve.
If any victims would like to arrange a meeting with the workers, please do not hesitate to do so, I am happy to help arrange this or be of any help that I can.
I want to say that from the meeting I had, I felt at ease to bring up any concerns that I had in regard to this issue and others should feel at liberty to do the same.
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Post by apple on Aug 3, 2011 16:07:59 GMT -5
And what about that young Cork worker who fiddled with a minor in France and still refused to acknowladge this as sin?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 16:41:26 GMT -5
Thanks for that Phil. Hopefully Tommie and Craig support this advice across the world. Also that Apple can have confidence that his/her concerns will be properly addressed. This can be a good platform to built upon.
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Post by emerald on Aug 3, 2011 17:34:21 GMT -5
Thanks Phil. It's good to know this situation is at last being taken seriously.
Apple, you continue to beat on about the incident in France. Why don't YOU report it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 17:47:17 GMT -5
This is a positive and long overdue development which must be welcomed. I guess the involvement of the local constabulary can certainly focus minds. If Mr Gamble is sincere in seeking resolutions for victims then now is the time for him to acknowledge his failure to deal with these issues appropriately in the past and to step swiftly aside in favour of someone new. If victims are to have confidence in the 2x2 organisation in seeking to find resolutions, then it is essential that those responsible for the failures of the past are no longer part of the organisation's decision making system. It is the view of many that Mr Gamble failed in his duty both legally and morally and therefore rather than being seen as having a part to play in the solution, Mr Gamble is now seen as having been part of the problem. In any other organisation his position would be completely untenable. If he fails to step aside now the cynics will go mad. And they will have every right to go mad. Matt10
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Post by apple on Aug 3, 2011 18:22:26 GMT -5
emerald, I do not have enough evidence to report it.
budgie, if he was genuinely contrite about his actions he would have reported himself to the police and also sought treatment to deal with his attraction to minors.
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Aug 4, 2011 0:18:19 GMT -5
Philip,
Thank you for your effort in this.
Good. But how is this being communicated to those who don't read TMB?
Claire
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 1:37:18 GMT -5
My understanding is that this was not a situation of a non consensual nature, that the worker in question asked to be sent home and that it was the youth's father that asked it not be taken any further.
Budgie,
In order to give this statement some validity it would be nice to know the age of consent in France and the age of the youth in question. If the youth was above the age of consent then the above holds some water, but if the youth was below the age of consent (e.g. less than 16 years) then the consent of the youth is immaterial and the actions of his/her father likely inappropriate.
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Aug 4, 2011 4:42:44 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 5:33:22 GMT -5
The age of consent for sexual activities in Scotland is 16. In England it is, or was, 18 years. However, this does not answer the question for matters occurring in France.
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 7:30:28 GMT -5
emerald, I do not have enough evidence to report it. budgie, if he was genuinely contrite about his actions he would have reported himself to the police and also sought treatment to deal with his attraction to minors. Then you'll agree that other worker who was the subject of much discussion here last year ought to hand himself over to the police and seek treatment for his alleged* attraction to minors. And his attraction to fellow workers. And his attraction to those that have offered for the work... The difference is, the worker to whom you refer held his hands up immediately, confessed his sins and repented of them. The other worker (WinQ) has not done this, to my knowledge at least. *Edited to clarify that although these claims have been made about WinQ there is not sufficient evidence to substantiate them.
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Post by massey on Aug 4, 2011 8:45:04 GMT -5
emerald, I do not have enough evidence to report it.
budgie, if he was genuinely contrite about his actions he would have reported himself to the police and also sought treatment to deal with his attraction to minors Apple, what is it like to be perfect, let he with out sin cast the first stone what would the point of reporting himself to the police, what are they going to do without someone complaining, how do you know he has not sought treatment to deal with his attraction to minors if he had such a condition sounds to me you feel there is no hope of forgiveness for any one that sins It would be good if you looked into your own life and see that the spirit you have is not of God
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Post by apple on Aug 4, 2011 9:18:46 GMT -5
emerald, I do not have enough evidence to report it. budgie, if he was genuinely contrite about his actions he would have reported himself to the police and also sought treatment to deal with his attraction to minors. As you stated you do not have enough evidence it makes me wonder what if any evidence you do have Would you please state what he was to report to the police There is a difference between being morally out of order and being legally guilty of an offense This worker does not have any attraction to minors or never has. this was a situation where play acting/messing about got out of hand which it shouldn't have. No act was intended and it is questionable if what happened could even be classed as an act. Apart from if I was there in person I could not be surer of this With regard to seeking treatment he did not require any treatment for any attraction to minors as he doesn't have any On his return to Ireland he visited medical practitioners and was treated for a different complaint and to be sure to be sure he discussed this isolated occurrence and was assured he did not have a problem I have evidence alright but I will not be disclosing that evidence on an open forum. The very fact that he did the deed with a minor says it he does indeed have an attraction to minors and is in need treatment.He broke the law in two ways: - he was improperly involved with a minor -he was a figure of authority in that minor's life and used his authority to take advantage of the minor You should take a long, hard look at yourself for backing up a pervert.
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 14:07:23 GMT -5
It depends on how "minor" the person was. If he was say, almost 16 then it could indeed be just as budgie says: playacting that got out of hand. It doesn't excuse the incident of course and it would appear that the former worker wouldn't think so either, but it suggests that prepubescent boys are not an attraction.
If you are in possession of evidence as you say you are, then you'll be pleased to know that legislation scheduled to be passed into law in the Irish Republic in the autumn obliges a person in possession of knowledge of CSA to report it to the police. What a golden opportunity for you to keep grinding that axe. I can't make up my mind though, if it's the workers in general and the meetings or the former worker that rises your bile the most.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 14:22:37 GMT -5
emerald, or anyone else, where did the alleged offences take place, the Irish Republic, Northern Ireland, or France ?
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 14:24:36 GMT -5
France.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 14:32:06 GMT -5
Thanks emerald. In this case it would require to be dealt with in France under French laws. Irish laws will not apply.
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Post by apple on Aug 4, 2011 14:38:29 GMT -5
Unfortunately I do not have solid evidence so I cannot report.Otherwise it would be different..
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 14:44:57 GMT -5
So what's reply no. 14 about? You said you'd evidence?
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Post by apple on Aug 4, 2011 16:27:03 GMT -5
So what's reply no. 14 about? You said you'd evidence? Evidence on what happened but not concrete evidence.
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 16:33:45 GMT -5
So what's reply no. 14 about? You said you'd evidence? Evidence on what happened but not concrete evidence. So it's just gossip then. Frankly, I think I'll stick to the stories that have come from his very embarrassed family. They concur with budgie's. I also knew the fellow well prior to him going in the work and budgie's claims of his conduct immediately after and since the incident seem entirely in character. Thanks for your input though.
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Post by apple on Aug 4, 2011 16:50:29 GMT -5
So it's just gossip then. Frankly, I think I'll stick to the stories that have come from his very embarrassed family. They concur with budgie's. I also knew the fellow well prior to him going in the work and budgie's claims of his conduct immediately after and since the incident seem entirely in character. Thanks for your input though. Anything but gossip.I knew before the majority knew. Nice of you to dismiss me as if I know nothing.
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Post by emerald on Aug 4, 2011 18:30:57 GMT -5
That's not the case at all apple. I'm sure you have the scoop on every scandal, large or small, in Ireland (and elsewhere too for all I know). Just because you heard a story as the former worker was boarding the plane for home, it doesn't necessarily make it true. In fact, I often find that details are generally sketchy, people confused and speculative when a significant story breaks. You only have to consider the Oslo tragedy to see the conflicting stories that emerged in the immediate aftermath. The general jist of the event was correct but the finer detail wavered in it's accuracy. Is it possible this is the case with your information?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 5:09:22 GMT -5
So what's reply no. 14 about? You said you'd evidence? Evidence on what happened but not concrete evidence. Apple, you report your suspicions, not evidence. Leave it up to the authorities to investigate and find any evidence. However, it is wise if there is some substance to your suspicions. However, if the incidents in question occurred in France, then the matter should be reported to the authorities in France where it will be considered under French legislation and procedures. In reality if these matters occurred in France there is little that can or will be done over in Ireland (north or south).
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Post by fizzy85 on Aug 5, 2011 6:13:11 GMT -5
Anything but gossip.I knew before the majority knew. Nice of you to dismiss me as if I know nothing. Apple, when did the alleged event take place?
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Post by emerald on Aug 5, 2011 11:44:52 GMT -5
Phil, just when reading your statement again, it struck me as odd that Tommie and Craig say it was owing to a misunderstanding that the old man got into the photograph. Not just was a chair provided for the man but he was seated to balance the picture with an other old brother worker opposite. Best of all, Craig was grinnng widely out of the picture too. I can't believe Craig didn't know that the man had been deliberately included in the picture.
Just what WAS said to the man last year regarding his position in the work? I wonder is Tommie himself not the author of the confusion given his inability or decision not to handle the situation properly.
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Post by x4r3d2 on Aug 21, 2011 15:44:36 GMT -5
Phil, is the worker in question permitted to attend gospel meetings and reprofess?
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Post by irvinegrey on Aug 26, 2011 8:37:04 GMT -5
Following a recent meeting, I would like to clarify that those with responsibilities in the work in Ireland, both Tommie Gamble and Craig Fulton would encourage any victims of child abuse to come forward and not to hesitate in reporting such incidents of child abuse to the police. In order to put a stop to any speculation, it should be noted that the worker in question has been removed from the ministry and will no longer be attending meetings in the future; this has been made clear to the elderly worker involved. It is my understanding that the law requires any one in a position of authority who suspects or has evidence of child abuse to report the matter to the police. While it is important to encourage victims to report abuse it remains incumbent upon those in authority to report it without delay.
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