Worker Pics

[Alan Vandermyden]

I began to write on the thread about worker pics on the main board, then realized that much of this was going to be "worker experience," so, a copy and paste later, and here I am in Coffee Talk.

I've found this thread to be very interesting, and it has made me rethink my own feelings about worker pictures. I've had a very negative view of them in the past few years, maybe focused on the feeling we were doing something wrong when we took the worker pictures down a few years ago, as numerous ones of those workers became personally hurtful to us. Thus, I immediately agreed with the "shrine" depiction . . .

However, though I certainly still empathize with the feeling expressed in that, and feel it has a validity, it is evident too - both through these threads and through considering my own experience - that the photos are used in different ways by various people.

One aspect that might be interesting to consider is the circulation of the photos - in my experience, soon after the California and Hawai`i conventions, "orders" would be taken for reprints, sometimes with a couple of size variations being offered. Not a good or bad thing, but it does to me indicate a certain value (not monetary!) attached to the photos. I have also had numerous "worker pictures" - as in the group shots taken at various conventions and worker meetings - sent to me, both while I was in the work and later. I held on to them, sort of in an unthinking feeling of obligation - again, something in which I felt I was crossing a barrier in finally removing them from our stacks of pics and tossing them. Then there were some large collections maintained by a certain couple in California (the same people who took the worker pics at Santee for years). These were kept in binders, and were very nice individual and small-group (i.e. companions, those who had worked in a specific region like the islands, come from a certain area, etc.) for the friends to purchase. I'm not being "critical" of these - I'm just saying they were there, as something people did, with different values and meanings for different people.

Then there's the display of the photos - my general impression is that the worker meeting group shots were often given a place of importance in a home. Here in Hawai`i, we would have a photo of the somewhat small group of workers at the convention, but also an often-larger print of the California worker meeting group photo. And though I don't remember specifically checking to see if homes had any (I didn't check homes for much of anything except good books to read!), I do feel I had sort of a general impression upon seeing one of these photos prominently displayed that "things were in order" in that home. That wasn't my entire gauge of a home or people, of course, but I believe it did play a role.

Another display type was the desktop with numerous worker pictures in them. This was really not that common in my experience, and it seemed to be in the homes of people who were quite involved with workers in some way - convention grounds owners, meeting homes, homes the workers used for their mail, etc. I'm sure there was a love for the workers by these people, but this kind of display also narrates a story - "We're involved with the workers; we do a lot for the workers." It can - and perhaps unintentionally - create competition.

And of course there are numerous worker photos on various shelves, tables, walls, etc. And these have their different connections with people too - some of specific individuals who have meant a lot in someone's experience, others seem to be collections of as many worker pictures as they can fit in there.

One thing I was aware of in the work is that certain workers tended to have their photos all over the state - they were more "popular" - sometimes because of personality, at other times because of theirs and the particular friends' involvement in something like the Mexico work (a big thing in California). It is easy to say this shouldn't exist, and that a not-so-popular worker shouldn't let it bother them. But it is there. And when you're struggling to live according to what you see as right, but others seem to get much more attention because of personality, it does not go unnoticed.

For me, the photos, like most of what we do, are creating narratives of our lives. It may be a story saying, "This is someone who helped us in our lives, and I love him/her for it. It can also be a story saying, "look at how much I do for 'the kingdom.'"

This might be a bit of an aside here, but I became very "attached" to a sister worker close to my age quite a number of years ago. This was through lots of talking only! I finally realized, during one preps/convention season, that I really had feelings for her. A good friend (and former worker) made sure I came to his home after conventions, and kindly let me know that I had a choice to make, and that the feeling was not mutual either. Other workers had already gone through this with her. At his advice, I never wrote her another letter, never had more than a very basic, "Hello. How you doing?" conversation. The connection with worker photos? That year, I was in a field where she had been not too many years prior, and her picture was all over the place! I memorized each spot in order to avoid them! Another worker angle you may find interesting . . . you might see in these things that workers attach meanings to some photos too, and not necessarily the same meanings the friends are attaching to them.

[emy]

Thank you for sharing. It really gives some insight into your experience, and maybe other workers, too.

My position still is that they are our friends, our brothers and sisters in spirit, so why would we not want reminders of them in our homes? My impression is that some people use the pictures - not just worker pictures - as reminders to pray for and keep them in their thoughts.

My opinion is for anyone to assume the shrine aspect is over the top.

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 21, 2011 11:40:08 GMT -5 emy said:

Thank you for sharing. It really gives some insight into your experience, and maybe other workers, too.

My position still is that they are our friends, our brothers and sisters in spirit, so why would we not want reminders of them in our homes? My impression is that some people use the pictures - not just worker pictures - as reminders to pray for and keep them in their thoughts.

My opinion is for anyone to assume the shrine aspect is over the top.

This is probably very true for you, Emy, and I certainly won't argue it with you. But we all use and experience things in different ways. My experience certainly doesn't "stand for" everyone's experience, and neither does yours. I remember the feeling of knowing the workers would approve of us having the large photo in our apartment. I'm not proud of this, and I'm not saying everyone feels this way. But I think it is quite safe to say that I do see some others using the photos in this manner too. In the homes I alluded to, I also know the people, and in some of those I am well aware of a competitive spirit in other ways too. This is not true for all of those homes, but it is very evident - to me and others - in particular ones. Thus, I maintain that people use things differently, with different meanings.

[open mind]

I declined to take a workers pic from our elder this year when he was handing them out and he gave me the filthiest look...I hardly know or have spoken much with most of them so why would I want a picture of them??

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 21, 2011 22:24:37 GMT -5 NathanB said:

Feb 21, 2011 11:40:08 GMT -5 emy said:

Thank you for sharing. It really gives some insight into your experience, and maybe other workers, too.

My position still is that they are our friends, our brothers and sisters in spirit, so why would we not want reminders of them in our homes? My impression is that some people use the pictures - not just worker pictures - as reminders to pray for and keep them in their thoughts.

My opinion is for anyone to assume the shrine aspect is over the top.

~~ I like the workers picture this way I can put the names and the faces together.... I still have some of my former companions pictures it is good to remember the wonderful memories we had back in those days together. I respect them but I don't worship them just because I have their pictures in my home.

I appreciate using pictures in this way too, Nathan.

[ScholarGal]

I always felt worker pics had two purposes:
1. Putting names and faces together
2. Historical record (staff and convention visitors)

I started studying those convention worker photos after a truly embarrassing episode at preps workday when I was in college. I started flirting with an outgoing young man over lunch break, and discovered he was a worker. To his credit, he immediately turned the conversation to his current companion and field. But I was still horrified because I have always had a strict "no flirting with workers" policy.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2011 9:39:57 GMT -5 ScholarGal said:

I always felt worker pics had two purposes:
1. Putting names and faces together
2. Historical record (staff and convention visitors)

I started studying those convention worker photos after a truly embarrassing episode at preps workday when I was in college. I started flirting with an outgoing young man over lunch break, and discovered he was a worker. To his credit, he immediately turned the conversation to his current companion and field. But I was still horrified because I have always had a strict "no flirting with workers" policy.

I have been reading these postings with interest. Some time past, I heard someone say that the display of workers photos in the home is nothing more than worker adoration, worker adulation and plain worker worship, which is encouraged by some workers. Is there any real basis for this claim? Is there anything wrong with worker adoration?

To adore is to regard with the utmost respect and affection and/or love. Isn't "love" the kingdom's banner?

[Alan Vandermyden]

My wife and I still keep and generally have on display (things are jumbled right now since we just moved) a few pictures of workers we have been particularly close to and have appreciated for one reason or another. I am not meaning to criticize this practice. But, we also realized we had a lot of photos - mostly group pictures - that weren't really that meaningful to us. For me, this is linked to what I often say about maintaining individual connections, and not just lumping people together because they have a specific "position."

I almost despised one worker picture - the last one I was in, which was at Mtn. Ranch in 1998. I had already talked to a "responsible" brother, and it was decided that I would leave the work, but I was asked to attend the worker meeting (though not required to take part) and to be in the photo. This was for the sake of not upsetting the rest of the California staff more than necessary, and I was okay with it. But I did not feel like a worker any more, and I was very aware that it was their meeting, not mine. I felt that way out of respect for the workers. But in looking back at the pic, I always knew I didn't belong in it, and I couldn't stand the pic!

Of course, there are many struggles like this occurring at any time - we don't know of them, and we don't need to know. But the "lumping together" does tend to portray each one there as the same thing, or as filling a specific role within that structure - brother/sister, older/younger, local/visitor, etc. I'm not interested in exposing people, but I personally find it much more meaningful to look to individuals I know and trust. And the "lumping together" significantly precludes the addressing of specific issues, with specific individuals.

[apple]

Feb 21, 2011 11:40:08 GMT -5 emy said:

Thank you for sharing. It really gives some insight into your experience, and maybe other workers, too.

My position still is that they are our friends, our brothers and sisters in spirit, so why would we not want reminders of them in our homes? My impression is that some people use the pictures - not just worker pictures - as reminders to pray for and keep them in their thoughts.

My opinion is for anyone to assume the shrine aspect is over the top.

You know that is the same reason why the Orthodox Christians have a corner within their home dedicated to images of saints and Mary & Jesus- as reminders to pray, although it is a reminder to pray for the people represented in the images rather than praying to those depicted, as the Orthodox do.



I notice the same people who have a worker icon corner to remind them to pray for the workers, do not have images of others on display to remind them to include them in prayer, it's just for the workers.

[emy]

Feb 22, 2011 14:47:39 GMT -5 apple said:

Feb 21, 2011 11:40:08 GMT -5 emy said:

Thank you for sharing. It really gives some insight into your experience, and maybe other workers, too.

My position still is that they are our friends, our brothers and sisters in spirit, so why would we not want reminders of them in our homes? My impression is that some people use the pictures - not just worker pictures - as reminders to pray for and keep them in their thoughts.

My opinion is for anyone to assume the shrine aspect is over the top.

You know that is the same reason why the Orthodox Christians have a corner within their home dedicated to images of saints and Mary & Jesus- as reminders to pray, although it is a reminder to pray for the people represented in the images rather than praying to those depicted, as the Orthodox do.



I notice the same people who have a worker icon corner to remind them to pray for the workers, do not have images of others on display to remind them to include them in prayer, it's just for the workers.

As I said, where I see it, it's not just worker pictures. I also see a fairly great difference between praying for or praying to, though St Anne would say they pray through them.

[IllinoisGal]

The bible says there is one mediator between God and man....The man Christ Jesus.

We no longer need to go through another party to approach God

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 22, 2011 16:59:14 GMT -5 IllinoisGal said:

The bible says there is one mediator between God and man....The man Christ Jesus.

We no longer need to go through another party to approach God

Let's please keep somewhere near the topic of how we view worker pictures, particularly what we observed/experienced in the work. We're not debating doctrine here . . . I know we all kind of forget which thread we're on at times, and give an immediate response to a post - and that's okay to a point.

Thanks!

Al

[fred]

~~ Yes, ;D that is a definite good reason to have workers pictures .... because during preps the workers dress just like the friends.

But Nathan, the girls have to pick up on the subtle clues............ the brand name workgear, the leatherman on the belt, and always long trousers.

Ooops, sorry Al, a bit off course here.

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 22, 2011 22:29:19 GMT -5 NathanB said:

Feb 22, 2011 21:22:07 GMT -5 fred said:

But Nathan, the girls have to pick up on the subtle clues............ the brand name workgear, the leatherman on the belt, and always long trousers.

Ooops, sorry Al, a bit off course here.

~~ hahaha.... No, we had halos on our heads.

Lol . . . Hey a bit of humor never hurts! And I'm not sure about the halos, Nathan - mine had a tendency to slip. Maybe that's why they always looked at me kinda funny . . .

[Alan Vandermyden]

Another little "episode" came to mind this afternoon . . .

A number of years ago (maybe 20 or 25?) a brother worker (who is still a good friend) and I were in the home at one of the California grounds for one of the before-meeting "teas," looking at their large collection number of worker pics. I still think very highly of the people of this home, and am not critical of them in having the large collection of pics. As a convention home, they of course had been around many workers, and the man did love to visit and take a personal interest in different ones. I admire him.

But it is a comment made by the brother worker standing there with me on that day that came to mind. Pointing to a picture (commonly seen in California at one time) of the four "Western" overseers (Ernest Nelson, Tharold Sylvester, Howard Mooney, and Eldon Tenniswood), he made a comment to the effect that "There's more than 200 years of experience and wisdom in the work in that picture."

Now, I would challenge that even from a "logical" standpoint, in that four individuals having 50+ years each at anything does not necessarily add up to what one individual could learn if he were able to remain at the endeavor for 200 years. But, aside from that, even though this was a statement of a "fact," it also highlighted kind of an awe with which these men were regarded.

Perhaps this can best be seen by someone who also knew how highly those men's word was regarded. And yes, it's true that we do consider the words of experience in any endeavor. But there was also a fear of questioning these men. I've been there!

I am not trying to say the picture - or even the table or desk that held these pictures - was a shrine, but I do see them being used in a talk that is built around workers - part of the mystique we've discussed in other threads. Pictures obviously leave impressions on our minds, and this was a very imposing picture, with the 4 elderly man very somberly standing there in their suits and ties . . . it all works together to create an air of power and authority.

Again, I have no wish to tear people down, but this aura can work to preclude addressing issues. Pics are only a small part of it, but they do form certain relationships in our minds, just like visuals we see all around us - ads, magazines, tv, etc.

[Aus guest]

Al, The other one I have heard countless times when people are looking at workers photos is the expression "the cream of the earth" and it is said with such veneration!

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 23, 2011 4:16:06 GMT -5 @Aus guest said:

Al, The other one I have heard countless times when people are looking at workers photos is the expression "the cream of the earth" and it is said with such veneration!

I've heard that one numerous times, sometimes in connection with photos, sometimes in a different setting, as when seeing a group of workers off at some distance. Good point!

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 21, 2011 20:46:38 GMT -5 open mind said:

I declined to take a workers pic from our elder this year when he was handing them out and he gave me the filthiest look...I hardly know or have spoken much with most of them so why would I want a picture of them??

I somehow missed your post earlier, open mind - and I have sometimes had a similar feeling in connection with certain pics that are given out or orders taken - It is generally assumed you'll want one, regardless of your personal connections.

[swarupa]

i have been out for 49 years but still have some worker pictures , its nice to remember
those who have been in my parents home from time to time. most have passed away by this time nice to remember them

[Alan Vandermyden]

Feb 12, 2013 3:57:19 GMT -5 swarupa said:

i have been out for 49 years but still have some worker pictures , its nice to remember
those who have been in my parents home from time to time. most have passed away by this time nice to remember them

I enjoy looking through them too, though most of mine are personal photos of times with other workers - companions, prep crews, etc.

I did toss a lot of the group pics though, I suppose just out of some initial anger and associations with the more "formal" side of things. One picture that I could not bear was the last one I was in - at Mtn. Ranch - once I had already "handed in my resignation" (so to speak), but was asked to be in the pic and worker meeting for the sake of others on the CA staff. I felt so out of place in both the meeting and the pic, and I found it hard for a long time to look at the pic. Other workers were very kind to me, I only felt out of place because of steps away that I had taken in my own heart and mind. I don't suppose it would bother me to see the pic now, as I look at the ministry quite differently.

[Deleted]

If you are well connected and you and live in the east you have to have a picture of George Walker. Most of the worker worshiper have a 8x10 or bigger some where for everyone to see.

[whyisitso]

I always found it fun to compare the Qld workers pic to a North American one. The 'uniform' (plain coloured skirts and 3/4 length floral shirt with a lace trim collar, or floral dress with 3/4 length sleeves) of the lady workers was amazing
It has changed slightly over the past 5 yrs. Now they even wear plain coloured shirts! ;D

[lazarus66]

Alan, Thanks for this post. I just sent all my "worker pictures" to Cherie.

I had mainly three class of people in the pictures.
1.) Those I didn't really know
2.) Those that had caused me grief
3.) Seeing my sister, with her sunglasses on to hide her druggie eyes.

There were some in there that I knew, respected and still have fondness for, but seeing the others in the pictures was too much for me. Suffering from bipolar disorder, it brought on my depression or made it worse, so I just go rid of them.

I guess everyone has their reasons for keeping or removing them. These are mine.

[CherieKropp]

WOW! What does this say/mean??

Feb 13, 2013 8:25:17 GMT -5 marie said:

If you are well connected and you and live in the east you have to have a picture of George Walker. Most of the worker worshiper have a 8x10 or bigger some where for everyone to see.

[Deleted]

The only worker I hear about growing up was George Walker. I never heard about all the others. You would have though George Walker started this. He was held up as the pope in the northeast.

[lazarus66]

Alan, I hope this is not going "off thread" but I know that when it came to pictures, as the years passed, there were very few pictures of our family that were "displayed" and more pictures of the workers and those worker pictures, and those pictures were everywhere. I don't know if the fact that my sister was a worker played into that, but I know that my mother had some major objectives that she was trying to accomplish before she died, and she went to some major steps to accomplish those things. One was to get my father to "profess" and the other was to get her elder auntie to profess also.
My mother made comments like, in one case where my sister was caught doing something extremely wrong regarding her drug abuse, I mentioned some help that someone, like an overseer needed to be notified and have it made known that my sister needed help, and my mother said "We can't touch her. She belongs to God."
When we lived in Washington, Tharold had started making some really radical statements about marriage, and other things that were just completely wrong and misinterpretation of the scriptures. I don't know about others, but my mother let me know in no uncertain terms that if the workers said it, it was absolutely true.
I tie this into the pictures, and worker worship that was obvious in my mother's life.
As life moved on, there were a couple of pictures of the family and the workers did become like a shrine. Our living room, or great room or parlor, depending on where you are and how you were raised was a large room, over 40 feet long with a mantle that was over the fireplace but extended the entire length of the room. It was filled with pictures of the workers. My father belonged to a Lutheran church, and they took pictures of members every year, and his picture from his church, and with all of that room and all of the pictures, none of them showed up until nearly 4 years after his passing, but I think that it was at my brother's request.
I mentioned in my other post that seeing my sister brought back bad memories,and that made me put all of this together to pose this question. If it is off topic, let me know and I can remove it from the thread.
I wonder about all of the pictures that have those that have engaged in CSA, misconduct in other areas, those that you just had a clash with in personality or all of the things that are human traits that we know and accept are part of the workers makeup but we realize that we need to accept them as they are and we can't let that affect our respect for of them as workers.
Those pictures of all of the workers, that we didn't get along with, and have committed crimes or been guilty of despicable behavior, what do we have to deal with, and how can that be handled for those that want to display pictures of the workers?

I am going out on a small limb here, but those pictures do exist, and how do you deal with the reality that those things are going to be present, and how is that supposed to be dealt with?
I know it is different for everyone, but can some others shed some light on how they felt about and dealt with this? I would appreciate knowing how others felt about this. I just am curious about how this, and I am sure that others have had these feelings and wonder how they dealt with it. Thanks for sharing.............Dale

[Alan Vandermyden]

May 8, 2013 17:56:02 GMT -5 lazarus66 said:

Alan, I hope this is not going "off thread" but I know that when it came to pictures, as the years passed, there were very few pictures of our family that were "displayed" and more pictures of the workers and those worker pictures, and those pictures were everywhere. I don't know if the fact that my sister was a worker played into that, but I know that my mother had some major objectives that she was trying to accomplish before she died, and she went to some major steps to accomplish those things. One was to get my father to "profess" and the other was to get her elder auntie to profess also.
My mother made comments like, in one case where my sister was caught doing something extremely wrong regarding her drug abuse, I mentioned some help that someone, like an overseer needed to be notified and have it made known that my sister needed help, and my mother said "We can't touch her. She belongs to God."
When we lived in Washington, Tharold had started making some really radical statements about marriage, and other things that were just completely wrong and misinterpretation of the scriptures. I don't know about others, but my mother let me know in no uncertain terms that if the workers said it, it was absolutely true.
I tie this into the pictures, and worker worship that was obvious in my mother's life.
As life moved on, there were a couple of pictures of the family and the workers did become like a shrine. Our living room, or great room or parlor, depending on where you are and how you were raised was a large room, over 40 feet long with a mantle that was over the fireplace but extended the entire length of the room. It was filled with pictures of the workers. My father belonged to a Lutheran church, and they took pictures of members every year, and his picture from his church, and with all of that room and all of the pictures, none of them showed up until nearly 4 years after his passing, but I think that it was at my brother's request.
I mentioned in my other post that seeing my sister brought back bad memories,and that made me put all of this together to pose this question. If it is off topic, let me know and I can remove it from the thread.
I wonder about all of the pictures that have those that have engaged in CSA, misconduct in other areas, those that you just had a clash with in personality or all of the things that are human traits that we know and accept are part of the workers makeup but we realize that we need to accept them as they are and we can't let that affect our respect for of them as workers.
Those pictures of all of the workers, that we didn't get along with, and have committed crimes or been guilty of despicable behavior, what do we have to deal with, and how can that be handled for those that want to display pictures of the workers?

I am going out on a small limb here, but those pictures do exist, and how do you deal with the reality that those things are going to be present, and how is that supposed to be dealt with?
I know it is different for everyone, but can some others shed some light on how they felt about and dealt with this? I would appreciate knowing how others felt about this. I just am curious about how this, and I am sure that others have had these feelings and wonder how they dealt with it. Thanks for sharing.............Dale

I don't think you're off-topic, Dale! I find pictures - and other objects - that we display in a home to be very informative of what we value, and they can be said to define or to write a story of our lives. I'm not defining things as "false" or "true" here, as our histories are all a matter of meaning that we assign to people and events.

Pictures are often displayed in homes and other places to define our lives - consider those of children's sports teams in homes or presidents' pictures in classrooms. I am not assigning a positive or negative value to these, but simply saying that it is a way of defining that is done by many, if not all, people and institutions. How about those old Grange Halls where we had gospel meetings, where the walls were line with photos of the past High and Mighty Grand Potentates or whatever - often these kind of owly-looking old men? Those were setting up certain people as important in the community and institution, people who had achieved, according to society's norms. And I would venture to say that there were probably shady business deals or whatever done by at least some of them. It's not unique to friends and workers to uphold certain people, while ignoring some less-than-favorable aspects of their lives!

As far as how we deal with the pictures, I don't know any way other than simply choosing what I want displayed in my home. I cannot control others, but I can choose not to be around them if I find things too troublesome. This obviously brings issues with family, but I still can't affect their choices, other than by loving them. But yeah, I get upset and spout off about stuff too!

[bubbles]

We had been out of meetings A few yrs.

One day while visiting my motherinlaw I looked around for photos of my 4 children and husband.
There were many photos of workers in groups and every other family member.
Not one.
It was as tho we didnt exist.

I felt shocked. Angry. Disgusted. Hurt.

I have no idea why she did this.
Was she told too?
To me it was the cruelest thing.

Was she ashamed?

I know she was very prideful of her child in the work.