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Post by apple on Feb 9, 2011 10:12:37 GMT -5
I do not know about other people, on this forum we come from a wide range of countries and have varied experiences of the meetings, workers, rules &c.. however I would like to know if anyone else has had a worker act in an inapprioprate manner towards them.By this I do not mean serious incidents, I mean incidents that weren't bad enough for the police but still would leave a person uncomfortable.
What made me uncomfortable was when as a young teen an older worker of the opposite gender ordered me (not the younger kids present but me, the only teenager) to sit on his lap.After that I would not enter a room when he was present even with adults around, even when an older relation had a screaming fit at me for avoiding this worker - apparently I was "not respecting" the workers.I can't see any normal reason as to why a worker of the other gender to want a teenager on their lap and I wonder if this was something just a little.. perverted?
So considering the growing number of workers being reported for sexual abuse & secret adulteries, has anyone else experienced this kind of thing or was I just unlucky and got an isolated incident?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 9, 2011 14:39:43 GMT -5
A female worker wet kissed my son when he was 10. He is still furious about it now. I didnt know at the time he told me less than 4 yr ago. He is over 40yr old.
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Post by apple on Feb 9, 2011 15:43:21 GMT -5
A female worker wet kissed my son when he was 10. He is still furious about it now. I didnt know at the time he told me less than 4 yr ago. He is over 40yr old. Wet kissed?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 9, 2011 17:58:04 GMT -5
A female worker wet kissed my son when he was 10. He is still furious about it now. I didnt know at the time he told me less than 4 yr ago. He is over 40yr old. Wet kissed? French kissed but to him it was wet and revolting. It frightened him.
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Post by Gene on Feb 9, 2011 19:49:07 GMT -5
I do not know about other people, on this forum we come from a wide range of countries and have varied experiences of the meetings, workers, rules &c.. however I would like to know if anyone else has had a worker act in an inapprioprate manner towards them.By this I do not mean serious incidents, I mean incidents that weren't bad enough for the police but still would leave a person uncomfortable. What made me uncomfortable was when as a young teen an older worker of the opposite gender ordered me (not the younger kids present but me, the only teenager) to sit on his lap.After that I would not enter a room when he was present even with adults around, even when an older relation had a screaming fit at me for avoiding this worker - apparently I was "not respecting" the workers.I can't see any normal reason as to why a worker of the other gender to want a teenager on their lap and I wonder if this was something just a little.. perverted? So considering the growing number of workers being reported for sexual abuse & secret adulteries, has anyone else experienced this kind of thing or was I just unlucky and got an isolated incident? Was his name Charles or Horace?
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Post by apple on Feb 10, 2011 15:28:21 GMT -5
Wet kissed? French kissed but to him it was wet and revolting. It frightened him. Ick!
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Post by apple on Feb 10, 2011 15:29:24 GMT -5
I do not know about other people, on this forum we come from a wide range of countries and have varied experiences of the meetings, workers, rules &c.. however I would like to know if anyone else has had a worker act in an inapprioprate manner towards them.By this I do not mean serious incidents, I mean incidents that weren't bad enough for the police but still would leave a person uncomfortable. What made me uncomfortable was when as a young teen an older worker of the opposite gender ordered me (not the younger kids present but me, the only teenager) to sit on his lap.After that I would not enter a room when he was present even with adults around, even when an older relation had a screaming fit at me for avoiding this worker - apparently I was "not respecting" the workers.I can't see any normal reason as to why a worker of the other gender to want a teenager on their lap and I wonder if this was something just a little.. perverted? So considering the growing number of workers being reported for sexual abuse & secret adulteries, has anyone else experienced this kind of thing or was I just unlucky and got an isolated incident? Was his name Charles or Horace? Neither.. I guess you know some dodgy workers with these names.
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Post by JO on Feb 10, 2011 19:36:22 GMT -5
I do not know about other people, on this forum we come from a wide range of countries and have varied experiences of the meetings, workers, rules &c.. however I would like to know if anyone else has had a worker act in an inapprioprate manner towards them.By this I do not mean serious incidents, I mean incidents that weren't bad enough for the police but still would leave a person uncomfortable. What made me uncomfortable was when as a young teen an older worker of the opposite gender ordered me (not the younger kids present but me, the only teenager) to sit on his lap.After that I would not enter a room when he was present even with adults around, even when an older relation had a screaming fit at me for avoiding this worker - apparently I was "not respecting" the workers.I can't see any normal reason as to why a worker of the other gender to want a teenager on their lap and I wonder if this was something just a little.. perverted? So considering the growing number of workers being reported for sexual abuse & secret adulteries, has anyone else experienced this kind of thing or was I just unlucky and got an isolated incident? This is an example of the professing culture that needs to change. Its a text book CSA warning sign, yet professing adults were demanding that you go along with it.
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Post by apple on Feb 11, 2011 17:37:31 GMT -5
This is an example of the professing culture that needs to change. Its a text book CSA warning sign, yet professing adults were demanding that you go along with it. I agree.
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Post by Gene on Feb 11, 2011 20:33:26 GMT -5
Well, okay, since you asked... From another thread: professing.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=17190&page=5#387942I was once approached by a very senior worker / overseer with sexual intent. This was after I was out of the work some years. I stopped him after he got as far as unfastening my belt. It never even occurred to me to contact authorities. I don't think I would have had a supportable case. How far does one have to let the offender go before having enough of a case to report it to the authorities? The reason I bring this up is that I'm not sure the women this worker harassed ever let it get past the harassment stage -- and if they did not, could they report it to authorities, file charges and have something stick? I doubt it, but I'm not familiar with the law on that topic.... But they should certainly report it to the the church!!
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Post by apple on Feb 12, 2011 7:33:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure the women this worker harassed ever let it get past the harassment stage -- and if they did not, could they report it to authorities, file charges and have something stick? I doubt it, but I'm not familiar with the law on that topic.... But they should certainly report it to the the church!! The problem is if someone goes to report a worker, he or she will be asked certain details about the worker- name of church the worker is in, address, contact details and so on, and due to the secretive nature of the group these details are very hard to find.Explaining the no-name status of the group is difficult enough, many people think the person lying, hiding something when they mention this.I can see the police dismissing someone because of this, it really would look made up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 14:53:38 GMT -5
How far does one have to let the offender go before having enough of a case to report it to the authorities?
It's not a case of "letting" anyone go far enough. The moment you suspect something untoward you put a stop to it.
However, in cases of sexual abuse, unless there is supporting evidence, it often boils down to "my word against his," which in the absence of corroborative evidence, leaves the case unsubstantiated. Of course, the perp may admit the allegations which can be sufficient corroboration in the right circumstances. In sexual offences corroboration may come from injuries, penetration, body fluids, dna and many others things that may link the perp to the offence. Each case differs and is judged on its own merits. What's important in one set of circumstances may be irrelevant in another. That's why the facts and circumstances of the case must be established.
However, if someone makes untoward approaches, or you suspect such, there is nothing to stop you going to the authorities to speak to someone about your concerns. Even if the perp denied the allegation, the matter may be expedited by way of a warning. Sometimes warnings come under the guise of "advice given!"
Of course you will be given advice appropriate to the circumstances. As for the perp, although it might appear to others that "nothing was done about it" (due to lack of evidence), merely getting asked questions about allegations can be uncomfortable enough and may with some individuals cause them to mind their behaviour in future.
When investigating crimes police officers must bear in mind the acronym "MAGICOP." Once it has been established a crime has been committed, the elements of MAGICOP help link the Accused to the crime.
The elements of MAGICOP are:
Motive Ability Guilty Intent Identification of the Accused Conduct after the crime Opportunity Preparation
In one ancient but highly notable case investigated by the Swiss police, MAGICOP was employed to bring two travelling preachers to justice in connection with an illegal case of cruelty to animals. They had apparently docked the tails of two horses belonging to a farmer without his permission. It was successfully argued that the act was not in fact cruel as it was carried out in the accepted humane way, but an alternative charge of criminal damage stood (damaging the property of another.)
The travelling preachers observed their right to remain silent when interviewed regarding the actual tail docking act, so the Swiss police applied MAGICOP which pointed to only one possible conclusion, i.e. the guilt of the Accused. Here is a summary of how the elements of MAGICOP were applied. Please note, although some elements of MAGICOP are essential in proving a case (eg identification of the Accused), other elements such as proving a motive are not, but can be very useful.
MOTIVE - Enquiries established these travelling preachers moved about the countryside, particularly amongst the farming community. They had learned the art of tail-docking merely to facilitate their preaching the gospel to these communities. Although unusual, the motive for docking tails of horses, was to gain opportunity to preach the gospel.
ABILITY - Both men were seen near the farm over the period in which tail-docking had occurred. They were able bodied men and sometimes were seen riding about on horses, or with a horse and cart. When searched they had a pair of tail-docking irons and a brazier with coals in their cart.
GUILTY INTENT - On a previous date they had asked the farmer if he would like them to dock his horses' tails. This was refused. They left him with a small card inviting him to their giospel meetings. This circumstance established that one of their intentions in calling at the farmhouse was to dock the tails of horses.
IDENTIFICATION - The farmer and others in the locality were able to identify the two preachers as those who docked their horses' tails, or had sought such business from them. The two docked tails were found in their possession. Apparently there was a trend at their conventions to use these as personal fans on hot days.
CONDUCT AFTER THE CRIME - Once the Swiss police started to investigate the crime, the two preachers suddenly closed their mission and quickly disappeared to a new area.
OPPORTUNITY - They were seen in the vicinity of the farm during the period over which the illegal tail-docking occurred.
PREPARATION - This was established from the fact tail-docking was part of their business and that they went about the various farms armed with their tail-docking equipment. The farmer in question saw these implements when they called on him.
The truth of the matter was that the two preachers were inundated with requests to dock horses' tails. However, there were some farmers who declined the service. The mistake the preachers made was committing the various requests to memory and returned to the wrong farm to carry out their tail-docking. The farmer was not present at that time so they just went ahead with what they called to do. They were observed at the farm by the neighbouring farmer who assumed they were going to call on him next to do his horses, but they failed to turn up due to the mix up.
This case was well reported in the Geneva edition of Der Spiegel, page 7, July 1884 edition.
Anyway, this is just one example of how MAGICOP can be applied.
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Post by emy on Feb 22, 2011 15:03:07 GMT -5
I do not know about other people, on this forum we come from a wide range of countries and have varied experiences of the meetings, workers, rules &c.. however I would like to know if anyone else has had a worker act in an inapprioprate manner towards them.By this I do not mean serious incidents, I mean incidents that weren't bad enough for the police but still would leave a person uncomfortable. What made me uncomfortable was when as a young teen an older worker of the opposite gender ordered me (not the younger kids present but me, the only teenager) to sit on his lap.After that I would not enter a room when he was present even with adults around, even when an older relation had a screaming fit at me for avoiding this worker - apparently I was "not respecting" the workers.I can't see any normal reason as to why a worker of the other gender to want a teenager on their lap and I wonder if this was something just a little.. perverted? So considering the growing number of workers being reported for sexual abuse & secret adulteries, has anyone else experienced this kind of thing or was I just unlucky and got an isolated incident? This is an example of the professing culture that needs to change. Its a text book CSA warning sign, yet professing adults were demanding that you go along with it. It's weird situation that I find very creepy, but just wondering.... how long have YOU known the textbook signs of CSA? or ever thought they would apply to workers, Hindsight is wonderful.
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Post by Gene on Feb 22, 2011 19:48:01 GMT -5
How far does one have to let the offender go before having enough of a case to report it to the authorities?It's not a case of "letting" anyone go far enough. The moment you suspect something untoward you put a stop to it. However, in cases of sexual abuse, unless there is supporting evidence, it often boils down to "my word against his," which in the absence of corroborative evidence, leaves the case unsubstantiated. Of course, the perp may admit the allegations which can be sufficient corroboration in the right circumstances. In sexual offences corroboration may come from injuries, penetration, body fluids, dna and many others things that may link the perp to the offence. Each case differs and is judged on its own merits. What's important in one set of circumstances may be irrelevant in another. That's why the facts and circumstances of the case must be established. However, if someone makes untoward approaches, or you suspect such, there is nothing to stop you going to the authorities to speak to someone about your concerns. Even if the perp denied the allegation, the matter may be expedited by way of a warning. Sometimes warnings come under the guise of "advice given!" Of course you will be given advice appropriate to the circumstances. As for the perp, although it might appear to others that "nothing was done about it" (due to lack of evidence), merely getting asked questions about allegations can be uncomfortable enough and may with some individuals cause them to mind their behaviour in future. When investigating crimes police officers must bear in mind the acronym "MAGICOP." Once it has been established a crime has been committed, the elements of MAGICOP help link the Accused to the crime. The elements of MAGICOP are: Motive Ability Guilty Intent Identification of the Accused Conduct after the crime Opportunity Preparation In one ancient but highly notable case investigated by the Swiss police, MAGICOP was employed to bring two travelling preachers to justice in connection with an illegal case of cruelty to animals. They had apparently docked the tails of two horses belonging to a farmer without his permission. It was successfully argued that the act was not in fact cruel as it was carried out in the accepted humane way, but an alternative charge of criminal damage stood (damaging the property of another.) The travelling preachers observed their right to remain silent when interviewed regarding the actual tail docking act, so the Swiss police applied MAGICOP which pointed to only one possible conclusion, i.e. the guilt of the Accused. Here is a summary of how the elements of MAGICOP were applied. Please note, although some elements of MAGICOP are essential in proving a case (eg identification of the Accused), other elements such as proving a motive are not, but can be very useful. MOTIVE - Enquiries established these travelling preachers moved about the countryside, particularly amongst the farming community. They had learned the art of tail-docking merely to facilitate their preaching the gospel to these communities. Although unusual, the motive for docking tails of horses, was to gain opportunity to preach the gospel. ABILITY - Both men were seen near the farm over the period in which tail-docking had occurred. They were able bodied men and sometimes were seen riding about on horses, or with a horse and cart. When searched they had a pair of tail-docking irons and a brazier with coals in their cart. GUILTY INTENT - On a previous date they had asked the farmer if he would like them to dock his horses' tails. This was refused. They left him with a small card inviting him to their giospel meetings. This circumstance established that one of their intentions in calling at the farmhouse was to dock the tails of horses. IDENTIFICATION - The farmer and others in the locality were able to identify the two preachers as those who docked their horses' tails, or had sought such business from them. The two docked tails were found in their possession. Apparently there was a trend at their conventions to use these as personal fans on hot days. CONDUCT AFTER THE CRIME - Once the Swiss police started to investigate the crime, the two preachers suddenly closed their mission and quickly disappeared to a new area. OPPORTUNITY - They were seen in the vicinity of the farm during the period over which the illegal tail-docking occurred. PREPARATION - This was established from the fact tail-docking was part of their business and that they went about the various farms armed with their tail-docking equipment. The farmer in question saw these implements when they called on him. The truth of the matter was that the two preachers were inundated with requests to dock horses' tails. However, there were some farmers who declined the service. The mistake the preachers made was committing the various requests to memory and returned to the wrong farm to carry out their tail-docking. The farmer was not present at that time so they just went ahead with what they called to do. They were observed at the farm by the neighbouring farmer who assumed they were going to call on him next to do his horses, but they failed to turn up due to the mix up. This case was well reported in the Geneva edition of Der Spiegel, page 7, July 1884 edition. Anyway, this is just one example of how MAGICOP can be applied. Ah, Ram, I believed every word up to the "Geneva edition of Der Speigel...." Geneva is in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. Are you sure you have the name of the newspaper correct?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 5:13:46 GMT -5
Sorry Gene, it was actually an Alsace and Lorraine edition of Der Spiegel which was sold in Geneva, probably because it was one of those issues where it was printed in both French and German on alternative pages. As you know these Alsations haven't a clue whether they are German Shepherds or French Poodles. Anyway, the curious thing about De Spiegel at that time is that if you folded the periodical, half of it was upside down whilst the other half was the right way up. Strange but true.
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Post by Gene on Feb 23, 2011 5:56:32 GMT -5
Sorry Gene, it was actually an Alsace and Lorraine edition of Der Spiegel which was sold in Geneva, probably because it was one of those issues where it was printed in both French and German on alternative pages. As you know these Alsations haven't a clue whether they are German Shepherds or French Poodles. Anyway, the curious thing about De Spiegel at that time is that if you folded the periodical, half of it was upside down whilst the other half was the right way up. Strange but true. That's fascinating about it being half right way up and half upside down. I wonder if the typesetters had to stand on their heads half the time to make it come out that way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 6:10:42 GMT -5
Strangely you are quite correct. To be more specific this was the order of the typesetters.
Frenchman - standing right way up. Frenchman - standing on his head. German - standing right way up. German - standing on his head.
I'm heading for the Metz area of Frogland on Saturday for a week. I'll see what more I can find out.
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Post by rational on Mar 2, 2011 15:22:24 GMT -5
Strangely you are quite correct. To be more specific this was the order of the typesetters. Frenchman - standing right way up. Frenchman - standing on his head. German - standing right way up. German - standing on his head. I'm heading for the Metz area of Frogland on Saturday for a week. I'll see what more I can find out. " Der Spiegel (German for The Mirror) is one of the most well known of Germany's weekly magazines. It describes itself as Germany's most significant and Europe's highest-circulating news magazine. On average, roughly 1.1 million copies are sold every week. The first edition of the Der Spiegel magazine came out in Hannover on January 4, 1947, a Saturday, as the successor to the Diese Woche (This Week). The magazine followed the model of American and British news magazines."
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Post by debkingkent on Mar 3, 2011 5:44:27 GMT -5
Was his name Charles or Horace?[/quote]
Oh man, the name Horace brings back BAD memories
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Post by rational on Mar 4, 2011 12:10:42 GMT -5
The problem is if someone goes to report a worker, he or she will be asked certain details about the worker- name of church the worker is in, address, contact details and so on, and due to the secretive nature of the group these details are very hard to find. If you are reporting a case of sexual abuse against an individual do they ask religious affiliation? Are you implying that a case cannot be filed if you do not know where the person works or have contact information? For most workers there is contact information and that, together with a name and your charges should be all that is required. Why mention it? I am reporting abuse by Mr. X and his contact information is Z. He is a family friend. I could see the police being brought up on charges if they did. Charges of sexual abuse are not usually dismissed. Ask someone falsely accused.
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Post by apple on Mar 5, 2011 15:33:45 GMT -5
The problem is if someone goes to report a worker, he or she will be asked certain details about the worker- name of church the worker is in, address, contact details and so on, and due to the secretive nature of the group these details are very hard to find. If you are reporting a case of sexual abuse against an individual do they ask religious affiliation? Are you implying that a case cannot be filed if you do not know where the person works or have contact information? For most workers there is contact information and that, together with a name and your charges should be all that is required. Why mention it? I am reporting abuse by Mr. X and his contact information is Z. He is a family friend. I could see the police being brought up on charges if they did. Charges of sexual abuse are not usually dismissed. Ask someone falsely accused. Due to the largely anonymous nature of the 2x2s, it is very difficult to report a worker as a religious minister who has done wrong.
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Post by ScholarGal on Mar 7, 2011 11:14:14 GMT -5
I think rational's point is very simple.
If a worker commits a crime, the police don't require the worker's occupation in order to start an investigation of the crime.
If someone breaks into your house and steals your jewelry, you call the police and report a robbery. You don't have to provide details on the robber's normal daytime occupation in order to get help from the police.
If the worker does something that is ONLY considered wrong because of the worker's occupation as a religious minister, then I think that's a matter for the church to resolve, not for the police to investigate.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 12:35:46 GMT -5
Strangely you are quite correct. To be more specific this was the order of the typesetters. Frenchman - standing right way up. Frenchman - standing on his head. German - standing right way up. German - standing on his head. I'm heading for the Metz area of Frogland on Saturday for a week. I'll see what more I can find out. " Der Spiegel (German for The Mirror) is one of the most well known of Germany's weekly magazines. It describes itself as Germany's most significant and Europe's highest-circulating news magazine. On average, roughly 1.1 million copies are sold every week. The first edition of the Der Spiegel magazine came out in Hannover on January 4, 1947, a Saturday, as the successor to the Diese Woche (This Week). The magazine followed the model of American and British news magazines." Quite obviously you are referring to a completely different version of the publication to what I was. It pays to thoroughly research your subject and assess its background correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 12:43:23 GMT -5
I think rational's point is very simple. If a worker commits a crime, the police don't require the worker's occupation in order to start an investigation of the crime. If someone breaks into your house and steals your jewelry, you call the police and report a robbery. You don't have to provide details on the robber's normal daytime occupation in order to get help from the police. If the worker does something that is ONLY considered wrong because of the worker's occupation as a religious minister, then I think that's a matter for the church to resolve, not for the police to investigate. This is a misleading statement in that it suggests disregard to a criminal's employment or position in relation to a crime committed. Even before a suspect is interviewed, one of the first facts established is their occupation or otherwise. In many instances a person's occupation may indeed be an aggravation of the crime, eg person in a position of trust. Depending on the circumstances "Minister of Religion" may indeed be a serious aggravation of a crime committed. You're right in the sense that a crime investigation is not usually based upon a person's occupation, but in many cases it could be a vital factor AND is one of the first things established when a suspect is detected. It is wrong to compare a worker with a bog standard housebreaker (in general terms). It is highly likely that in most instances of worker criminal behaviour, the acts will be committed whilst he/she was in a position of trust by virtue of their occupation as Minister of Religion. This is not usually the case with your run of the mill housebreaker. A person's occupation or indeed other circumstances may place that person in a position of trust whereby they are afforded responsibilities, position and opportunities not usually afforded to the public at large. Such persons are expected to adhere to higher standards and observe their position of trust. If a person abuses their position of trust by taking advantage of the position afforded them this is regarded as an aggravation of the breach committed. EG. If a bank clerk uses their position of trust to feloniously appropriate funds then this would be an aggravation of the crime of theft or whatever. However, if that same bank clerk visted Walmarts as a normal shopper and stole some goods from the shop, this would not be regarded as an aggravation of the theft. This is because they are not in a position of trust at Walmarts and therefore have not taken advantage of their position. With workers committing crimes it would have to be established if they were in a position of trust at the material time. EG a worker who is residing in the home of one of the friends may be regarded as being in a position of trust, either by way of his position as Minister of Religion carrying out pastoral duties, or merely by being a friend of the household. In these circumstances if he/she abuses that position of trust and steals something from the house, or whatever, then he/she has broken their position of trust and an aggravation of the crime takes place. However, if that worker, like the bank clerk, goes into a shop (where he has no position of trust) and steals something, then there is no aggravation in these simple circumstances, even though the worker may be regarded as being employed 24/7 over 365. Most occupations to a greater or lesser degree often place members of their workforce in positions of trust, permanently or temporarily.
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Post by ScholarGal on Mar 7, 2011 13:52:57 GMT -5
I fully understand that being in a position of trust can result in more serious charges.
However, my statement was about starting an investigation, not completing the investigation and filing charges.
No one should be afraid to report a worker for criminal behavior because the occupation/address of a worker is hard to define.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 14:24:22 GMT -5
I fully understand that being in a position of trust can result in more serious charges. However, my statement was about starting an investigation, not completing the investigation and filing charges. No one should be afraid to report a worker for criminal behavior because the occupation/address of a worker is hard to define. Not necessarily more serious charges, but making the circumstances more serious. Aggravations of a crime may also arise out of amount of damage caused (vandalism), degree of injury (some cases of assault), amount stolen (theft) etc etc etc. Eg a person may steal $5 and later on he steals $5000 dollars. Both crimes may merely be crimes of "theft," however one is a more serious charge than the other due to amount stolen, although both are the same crime. The crime involving the theft of $5000 is likely to be treated more seriously by a court than the theft of $5. Of course some aggravations do result in separate, more serious charges of the same ilk, where these have been specially drafted in law. You are right on the other points. My apologies for misinterpreting your standpoint. Although the role of a worker may be hard to pin down in an "employment" sense, they cannot wriggle out of the fact they are indeed Ministers of Religion and either by virtue of that position, or indeed merely by being a friend of those with whom they stay or enjoy other privileges with, are regularly in a position of trust.
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Post by apple on Mar 7, 2011 14:30:10 GMT -5
Well done ram! You did a good explaination. ScholarGal when a church minister abuses the trust of a parishioner by abusing tjavascript:add(" ","")heir children, it is more serious than if someone else in a career that is not based on trust did it- and when it's a worker it's much worse because they stay in peoples' homes and teach members that they cannot refuse a worker accommodation (they misquote Matthew 10:14).Having a complete stranger in one's home leaves one's children vulnerable to abuse- and since we are on the topic; in most countries anyone working with children is required to have a police check by law.Church ministers come under this rule (and they don't stay in peoples' homes), a rule which the workers are breaking. If Joe Bloggs wants to report abuse that happened to his boy in his home at the hands of a trusted worker, Joe will have to explain who the worker is, what the worker was doing in his house and so on.. this would include having to explain that said worker was a minister. The next questions would be; a minister for what church?, how the worker has not been checked by us? and where is he now? which are very difficult answers to give since said worker has probably made his merry way on to another area or province, and the meetings has no real name other than nicknames that differ from country to country and no official headquarthers.
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Post by apple on Mar 7, 2011 14:32:07 GMT -5
I fully understand that being in a position of trust can result in more serious charges. However, my statement was about starting an investigation, not completing the investigation and filing charges.No one should be afraid to report a worker for criminal behavior because the occupation/address of a worker is hard to define. Aaah I get you now.
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