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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 5, 2011 17:50:57 GMT -5
The discussions along this line were quite interesting after I was involved in an auto collision (in August, 1987), in which the other two brother workers in the car were killed . . . Do you mind sharing? If it isn't too painful for you. Some of you may recall hearing of the accident, but I’ll relate a bit of the story . . . John Walker, Mike Murray and I had been together at the Buttonwillow (BW) convention grounds, for what we called “pre-preps” in those days. This was just a week or so in which the core BW prep crew did some basics in preparation for the much–larger crew that would arrive after the two conventions at Gilroy. On the Saturday preceding Gilroy 1, we workers “scattered” in various directions and groupings, planning to arrive at Gilroy on Monday, I believe. I had been in the Las Vegas (LV) field with Clair Bone since December of 1986 until prep time, and since LV is nowhere close to being between BW and Gilroy, John and Mike invited me to ride along with them to spend the weekend in their field—Santa Maria and San Luis Obispo (SLO), a coastal region just “over the hill” from BW. They were both friends of mine, and I gladly accepted. John was only 31 years old, and had probably only had one or two years of responsibility, having started in the work in 1977. Mike and I were both 27—I had started in the work in 1980; Mike in 1981. I knew a few people in their field, but had just left the planning of the weekend to them. Details on the weekend are not significant to this story, although they are somewhat so to me, as well as to the two workers’ families and friends. I still have no memory of the accident itself—I only remember waking up in ICU some time the next day, and wondering why the male nurse kept telling me to lay down. I didn’t have any pain, and I was intent on getting out of there and getting back with John and Mike. My memory of that Sunday ends at about the time we got in the car. I remember Sunday morning meeting in Worth and Mildred Lundin’s home, lunch at Ed and Connie Dalrymple’s home, parts of the lunch conversation, and taking a nap (still fresh from the islands, I just found a spot on a bedroom floor). After we napped, I told Da Tree Peegs in Hawaiian Pidgin, and then my memory gets hazy—I believe I remember walking to the car, one of the Dalrymple boys walking over from the garage as the rest of the family walked from the front door with us, and then a discussion as to who (between Mike and me) would sit in the front. You know the discussion -- two people trying to be polite. Mike won out, and I sat in the front passenger seat. I say “I think I remember” because there has been mention of this by the Dalrymple family members, and I’m not exactly sure what is actual memory, and what has been “filled in” for me. But a simple, friendly banter as to who would sit in front became very significant an hour or so later . . . There is much I can tell about the accident and the ensuing hospitalization, recovery, legal proceedings, the effect on California workers and friends, and so on. I’m glad to relate them, focusing on what I learned from them. I’m not much for “drama,” but our varied “experiences” can be used to learn and can be shared in that way too. Because the original question that prompted this posting was about the discussions regarding who lived and who died, and the ever–present questions like “Did God plan it or did God just allow it?” or “Would God plan a death? Is he sparing someone from something in life or perhaps ‘using’ their death(s)?” — I will focus on some discussions I was involved in concerning those topics. But first, I do want to briefly relate something that I regard as very significant, which I greatly appreciated: My parents were living in Carson City (CC) at the time of the accident, and they drove a van down to pick me up at the hospital near SLO, took me to Gilroy 2 for a few meetings (where I caused quite a commotion, getting wheeled around in a wheelchair and all!), and then took me up to CC. I stayed with them until mid–December, by which time I could get around fairly well on crutches, and then joined up with Harold Hilton, “bumping” his companion, Mark McGee over to California somewhere. The thing that came to mean so much to me through those four months was two men—Tim Ward and Bob Williston—taking time (individually) to come over and “talk story” with me, probably a couple of times a week or more. I had known Tim’s family before, though not all that well. He is literally a “gentle man,” and I was greatly impressed with his quiet interest in visiting—and I probably talked for hours about the Pacific! Bob and his family had only recently moved to CC (from Canada), as he had taken a position teaching French. Bob and I both love languages, and we had lots to talk about there. I haven’t seen or spoken with Tim in years, and only re-established contact with Bob a couple of years ago. There were also many other kindnesses, shown by many other people, of course. These were simply two who were able to do this and took time to do it, and I appreciated it. Oops! — Just spent 30 or 40 minutes talking to a former instructor who’s sitting here in Coffee Talk typing and using the internet too . . . gotta get my mind back on track now! In the months after the accident, Russell Osborne, Mark McGee and I (and possibly others) had several discussions centering on “Does God plan, or just allow, things like this to happen?” Please realize that these conversations took place more than 23 years ago, and they don’t necessarily reflect my views now—some have changed; others are still much the same. I’m not arguing any particular position, but just “throwing out there” what I can remember of some long–ago discussions. And I have no idea how either Russell or Mark feel about the topic now either. We human beings aren’t static, so please don’t “lock” any person into a particular position. We were just three young guys who thought we had something figured out, and we’ve likely all grown a bit! As I remember it, Russell was quite certain that God only “allowed” such “tragedies,” that He would never plan the death of one of His servants, referring to Eccl. 9:11: “Time and chance happeneth to them all.” The collision had occurred shortly after the three successive years in which California workers had left the work to marry (a brother worker and a sister worker each time), and the CA staff was quite “demoralized,” with brothers and sisters becoming kind of “wary” of one another. The deaths did have a very pronounced effect of uniting the staff once again. This led to my feeling that God planned such things. Of course, the inevitable question then arose: “Why did God spare you? Do you think you’re better than them or something?” And my heart–felt response was that “God knows who needs more time to learn and grow.” I sincerely meant this, though it was sometimes spoken in a semi–jesting manner. I saw John and Mike as more “spiritually mature” than I, and I highly respected both of them. John had a background of drug use, and had been the first in his family to profess. Mike’s grandmother had professed, and he did as a young child (around 12 or 13 I think), also the first in his immediate family. Mike was also an adopted son, with three younger sisters later born into the family. His parents later told me how the story of choosing and adopting him just became part of the family history, told right along with those of his sisters’ births. All of this added to my respect to the two men and their families, and I felt like God had used them in a particular way. I still hold similar views on this, but of course I’m in a very different position regarding workers and meetings too . . . confusing? Well, I don’t claim to have all the answers, and you’re quite free to disagree with me . . . I likely won’t even bother to argue the point!
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 6, 2011 16:29:25 GMT -5
A few more details for clarity:
John Walker drove; Mike Murray sat in the rear driver-side seat. John was impaled by the steering column and died immediately from massive internal injuries. The car was an early-eighties Chevy Citation, with no rear-seat shoulder belts. Mike was thrown forward into the head rest of the driver's seat, and some feel strongly that a suitcase that was in the rear "hatchback" area flew forward and hit him in the neck. In any event, his brain stem was heavily damaged. Mike lived for about a week on life support, expiring immediately when the support was removed.
Mike's parents were at his bedside at this time, and his mother took comfort in feeling a responsive squeeze from his hand. I did have some time with both sets of parents a year or two later, and of course they appreciated hearing about some of those last days and hours with their respective sons.
I was hospitalized for 12 days, then my folks drove me up to Gilroy 2 on Friday afternoon. In the days immediately following the accident, there was some discussion as to how to break the news to me that John had been killed. I asked within a couple of days - and I think it was MIke's parents who told me (upon my asking), but I evidently took it well. I knew Mike was injured, but didn't realize the extent of his injuries, and pictured the two of us recuperating together. I do remember a number of workers visiting at different times, including Clair Bone, my companion the preceding year. I wasn't worn out from visitors, but day and night all ran together in the evenly-lit ICU, and I lost track of time.
I was of course aware by that time that both of my legs were broken, though I still had no pain. The only physical pain I encountered the entire time resulted from the anesthesia after a couple of follow-up out-patient surgeries.
I haven't thought about this for a long time, and details are getting hazier . . .
I originally had a big "contraption" outside my lower right leg, holding the bones together (sorry I forgot all the bone names - I don't speak Medicalese!). I also had a rod inserted through my left hip into the bone of my upper left leg. Removing that was one of the follow-up surgeries, and I was very sore from the anesthesia the next day! My left leg had only the rod - no cast, but I of course could not put any weight on the leg. I think my right leg initially had a long cast, then a short (up to the knee only) cast, and then the contraption.
I was confined to a wheelchair the first month or so, and some of the friends had loaned me a hospital bed. I well remember the day I could again raise my leg (while lying in bed) on its own strength. I called Mom in to show her that! Life in a wheelchair brings some interesting observations . . .
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 6, 2011 16:38:21 GMT -5
I don't know what's interesting or not to folks regarding this accident, and I have obviously omitted a lot - so please ask if you do have a question.
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Post by emy on Feb 6, 2011 17:51:20 GMT -5
I haven't commented because I didn't know if we eavesdroppers are limited to the other thread! Please continue with whatever comes to mind about it. I find it all interesting.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 6, 2011 17:55:48 GMT -5
I haven't commented because I didn't know if we eavesdroppers are limited to the other thread! Please continue with whatever comes to mind about it. I find it all interesting. It seems to be working okay if others comment here too - I'll say something if we stray too far from the topic . . . but then, live conversations generally take some interesting detours too!
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Feb 6, 2011 22:04:06 GMT -5
Allan, keep writing, it is all very interesting. I remember Sydney Holt quoting your accident at australian conventions as root cutting experiences for the workers and friends in California. He spoke about the accident with a lot of feeling, will never forget it.
I wish Sharon Hargreaves would also contribute on this forum again, like you, she has a lot to offer.
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 2, 2011 22:20:24 GMT -5
Allan, Thanks for the courage to share your experience. I am so glad that after our conversations about it on the TLC board messaging, that you did have some real positive dealings with some of the friends. As I told you, I heard so many stories, and they were not accurate, and some were not too flattering, but I have found that somehow in the F&W's way, there seems to be a rumor mill that is juicy in words, but lacking in truth. I find it interesting to read of what happened, especially after getting the main facts from you directly. If you choose I would encourage you to share as much as you are comfortable with.
I don't know about the planning or allowing question, but am glad to have been able to find out from your own mouth what took place and know that it must be difficult to relive the events.
For those that don't know, some unkind things were said about Allan's mental condition, and I apologize to Allan if that was not his wish top have this brought up, but I feel like people need to know that in too many cases, false reports go out, and are not fair to the persons that have been unkindly referred to.
Again, Allan, thanks for sharing and sorry if I am out of line, and will remove the post if you desire. I just thought people ought to know that even in the worst kind of tragedies, the Tonguewaggers still are in operation. I admire your kind remarks and am glad you were among kind people during your recovery and received such support.
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lizzy
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Post by lizzy on Aug 3, 2011 14:20:30 GMT -5
Alan, thanks for sharing. This is pretty much how we heard it. I remember everyone clapping when you were wheeled into the dining tent at Gilroy. Jean W
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 4, 2011 1:20:26 GMT -5
Alan, thanks for sharing. This is pretty much how we heard it. I remember everyone clapping when you were wheeled into the dining tent at Gilroy. Jean W Yes, that was quite a reception at Gilroy! There was lots of intense emotion that year, and it seemed to be quite a relief or something like that for the friends when I arrived on Saturday of #1, nearly 2 weeks after the collision. And thanks, Dale for mentioning the "rumor mill." That happens in many places - it seems like people seem to feel a need to create a story when they don't really know. Well, I did kinda figure that at least I have an excuse now if I seem sort of "not with it"!
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Post by ts on Aug 10, 2011 23:20:00 GMT -5
Alan, thanks so much for sharing what you have.
I can't help but get a picture of you in the work. I can see by your soft spirit now that you would have been highly respected. Plus, you were an oversees worker. AND you had the distinction of being in that accident that everyone heard about and would have been talked about in conventions(like the one Sydney spoke in). Such stories would make you a bit of "celebrity" or a role model in many ways. Someone that the friends and workers could talk about and be proud of and uplift their faith.
What is so remarkable is that none of that makes any real impact on the friends when you leave the meeting. To them, God was using you but you forsook Him somehow. It is strange how your exit from the meeting only makes you lose credibility rather than your known character, faith and reputation giving validity to your exit.
I also do not know what God plans or doesn't plan. It is clear that God is still using you as a testimony to the friends and workers if they will hear it and see it.
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Post by Lee on Aug 10, 2011 23:46:28 GMT -5
I remember exactly where I was when I heard about your accident, from someone on the east coast, no less. Things like that just weren't supposed to happen.
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 11, 2011 11:17:10 GMT -5
Alan, I wouldn't worry about "not being with it". There are many of us that are not with it, according to some that I feel have never been with it, or been near being with it. Thanks again for your courage in sharing and opening the door for criticism of your mental state. I feel like anyone that demeans you publicly "not the rumor mill folk" should be put off this board. Period I have always found you very intelligent, competent, and have been glad with our correspondence and exchange of ideas. Of course I may not be the one to stand up for you, as you are very capable, but I am here beside you, as a friend. I need all the "Oddball" friends I can get, so glad to consider you a friend, you weirdo. ;D Your friend always, Dale
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 12, 2011 20:53:43 GMT -5
What is so remarkable is that none of that makes any real impact on the friends when you leave the meeting. To them, God was using you but you forsook Him somehow. It is strange how your exit from the meeting only makes you lose credibility rather than your known character, faith and reputation giving validity to your exit. Yes, ts! I have sometimes wondered how some would look on this now that I no longer attend meetings.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 12, 2011 20:56:14 GMT -5
I remember exactly where I was when I heard about your accident, from someone on the east coast, no less. Things like that just weren't supposed to happen. Well, I heard about it in ICU! I still do not remember the trip or the accident . . . my memory fades out at some point on that Sunday afternoon.
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Post by johnvdm on Aug 13, 2011 10:23:37 GMT -5
I remember exactly where I was when I heard about your accident, from someone on the east coast, no less. Things like that just weren't supposed to happen. Well, I heard about it in ICU! I still do not remember the trip or the accident . . . my memory fades out at some point on that Sunday afternoon. On the day of the accident which was a Sunday afternoon, I walked into our home from work and the phone rang, it was a California Highway Patrol, stating that he was in a hospital in a small town I had never heard of. He went on to explain that Alan had been in an accident and was in the hospital with injuries, and he then stated that there were other persons in the car but had no idea who they were. That was the start of a long night for us. I first called the Gilroy convention grounds to were Alan was headed to ask them if they would know who he was with. I talked to Sydney Holt whom I had known very well as he spent many days in my home when I was a teenager. He then thought Alan, John Walker and Mike Murray were together, he then also gave me a phone number of some of the folks in that area who he thought would have known where they had stayed on Saturday night. I did get ahold of one individual (the name leaves me as it over 20 years ago) anyway he drove up to the hospital, and meet the Highway Patrol officer and was able to help him sort out who the three men were, and gave him family phone numbers for the Walkers, and Murray's. The friend from that area was then able to see Alan and give me more information as to his immediate condition. He was also able to get ahold of the workers in that field at the time Joe Schoen, and it seems like John Wright. Anyway they was they able to spend quite sometime with Alan in the emergency room, as he had a very long wait of several hours before they could tend to him, as more life threatening emergency kept coming in. We were really thankful for the 3 men there that evening as we then had good communication of Alan's condition, and they were able to give Sydney Holt the details of what had taken place. Mike Murray had been taken to a different hospital so some other folks went to be with him. We was living in Carson City Nevada, which was several 100 miles to the Hospital. So after a long sleepless night and having to make arrangements at work we was able to get away around noon to drive down. We was only able to get to Gilroy very late evening, we was meet at the drive way to the Convention grounds by a couple sister works, and were amazed at the rumors that they had heard Alan was near to death. Now keep in mind as family we were the only ones able to talk to the nurses caring for him NO ONE ELSE, and we knew he had surgery, and was doing as well as expected but no where near death. We drove on down the next morning and had Harold Hilton, and it seems like a sister worker also. They wanted to visit with Alan shortly and then returned back to Gilroy with other the next day which would of been Tuesday. Thelma, my wife also went back to Gilroy before Thursday when John Walkers funeral was held in place of the first Convention meeting. I stay with Alan until Saturday when I went back to Gilroy, and then we returned home on Sunday. The next Friday we then went back to Gilroy, and on to pick up Alan on Saturday to take him back to our home for Recovery. During that week at home I was advised by his Doctors to arrange with local doctors for his continued care. The Orthopedic Doctor we got ahold of was a sport doctor, and had to deal with a lot of leg injuries for the skiers in the area during the winter months. Alan had to go in for x-ray's that first week so they could have a good understanding of what was going on with his legs. At that time it was immediately determine that he had to have surgery on the left leg again and place a new pin in the inside of the bone, and have screws inserted in the top and bottom of the pin ad the bones in the leg was crushed and the leg was compressing on it self. But after a very successful surgery his recovery went extremely well. Backing up a little to the first time I came back from the hospital, I was stopped by many wanting to know what happen and what was Alan condition. It amazed me of the number of stories that I had heard that happened. I spend hours trying to get the correct information out. As having been in that area with Alan for several days, I visited the Accident scene, went and seen the cars involve in the wrecking yard, and had taken photos of them. So I feel I had a very good grip on what actually took place. That first night of the accident we had many phone calls, and some had come from all over the world. News spreads fast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 15:43:20 GMT -5
I heard that a 70 year old drunk man was at fault.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jul 23, 2012 2:44:03 GMT -5
I heard that a 70 year old drunk man was at fault. He wasn't proven in court to be drunk, but the witnesses I talked with at the trials definitely felt he was drunk. We went through three or four trials (can't remember now!), with the initial ones resulting in a hung jury, and the last in a verdict of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, meaning he had caused the accident (that was never in question), but not proven to be drunk. Things were complicated by the fact it was difficult for the ambulances to reach the collision site for some time, due to the freeway being completely stopped. This meant that by the time the man reached the the hospital, his blood alcohol level was within legally acceptable limits. They extrapolated back, giving a range within which his alcohol level would have been, but the defending lawyers were able to throw enough doubt into the picture. One witness I spoke with said his van reeked of beer. The judge questioned whether she knew the smell of beer, and she was quite adamant that her boyfriend or husband drank enough that she was very well acquainted with it! He was a retired military officer, had a purple heart, was a free mason . . . he was given a six month sentence, I believe, which was delayed because of illness, and he succumbed to cancer before serving time. The poor old guy didn't even have any friends or family at the trials with him. Many professing people were there, of course. The state of California prosecuted, calling me in as a witness. I still don't remember the accident or the hour's drive leading to it, but they wanted me to establish who the three of us were. At the last trial, the defending lawyer had my testimony excluded - it was evident he didn't like mention of these two ministers being killed, and he had my testimony ruled out as irrelevant or something like that. Anyway, from my perspective . . .
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Post by rational on Jul 24, 2012 7:03:18 GMT -5
I heard that a 70 year old drunk man was at fault. He wasn't proven in court to be drunk, but the witnesses I talked with at the trials definitely felt he was drunk. This is not an uncommon thing. I am not saying that he was or was not drunk but there are various conditions (diabetes, for example) than present as if the person was drunk, his breath might smell strongly of 'alcohol' but in reality it is acetone and is caused by a drop in insulin levels. Depending on the instruments/tests used the alcohol levels might show as completely normal. It can make the victims/friends of victims very angry when they believe the other driver was drunk. On the other hand, driving while suffering from diabetic ketoacidosis is something that the individual should avoid, for a number of reasons.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 24, 2012 9:20:29 GMT -5
A good discussion can be found in the following link regarding a priest's account of one of the Aurora shooting survivors: bstrait.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/a-miracle-inside-the-the-aurora-shooting-one-victims-story/My personal viewpoint: time and chance happeneth to all. Another thought: God's response to Job. Who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge? (or something like that.) We simply do not have enough data in regards to God's plan to even question it "intelligently." My third thought goes to Jesus asking his disciples if the ones whom the tower of siloam(?) fell were worse sinners than others (in other words- was it God's punishment on them?) Jesus implied that this wasn't the case.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jul 24, 2012 10:26:16 GMT -5
He wasn't proven in court to be drunk, but the witnesses I talked with at the trials definitely felt he was drunk. This is not an uncommon thing. I am not saying that he was or was not drunk but there are various conditions (diabetes, for example) than present as if the person was drunk, his breath might smell strongly of 'alcohol' but in reality it is acetone and is caused by a drop in insulin levels. Depending on the instruments/tests used the alcohol levels might show as completely normal. Yes, there are numerous factors to consider. One witness did speak of numerous empty beer cans in his van, and he had been "hunting" in a military area of some kind - Fort Bragg? I don't mean any of this to be conclusive, just points to consider. Yes, and this is one of the points in my life where I became so aware of a "mob" mentality, with everyone "out to kill." However, I became rather disgusted at the man too after a personal chat with him during a trial break, when he just blamed it all on over-zealous prosecutors. He didn't seem to feel any remorse, which I felt to be problematic, no matter where he was "coming from." But then, he didn't seem to have much of a life anyway, and our subsequent lawsuit (I asked for medical expenses to be covered; the families of the other two workers received larger settlements) pretty much wiped out his insurance and possibly his ability to be insured very easily . . . it doesn't seem to me like there's much reason to be angry about him not serving time in prison.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 1, 2012 21:43:49 GMT -5
A good discussion can be found in the following link regarding a priest's account of one of the Aurora shooting survivors: bstrait.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/a-miracle-inside-the-the-aurora-shooting-one-victims-story/My personal viewpoint: time and chance happeneth to all. Another thought: God's response to Job. Who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge? (or something like that.) We simply do not have enough data in regards to God's plan to even question it "intelligently." My third thought goes to Jesus asking his disciples if the ones whom the tower of siloam(?) fell were worse sinners than others (in other words- was it God's punishment on them?) Jesus implied that this wasn't the case.That verse made me understand that just because someone dies, that it means anything as far as God is concerned. Someone else has said that the day we are conceived is the day our death is planned as well, but we have no strength against those kind of things.....accidents happen to all, incidents do too...
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 9, 2012 13:04:45 GMT -5
A friend just reminded me (via FaceBook!) that today is the 25th anniversary of that collision. Many of us workers were passing through the vicinity that weekend, en route to Gilroy convention, which was the following weekend. This man and another (both workers) happened to be fairly close, and sat with me in the ER for some hours, though I have no recollection of it.
The grave pics of John Walker and Mike Murray posted on the worker graves thread are particularly significant to me, knowing that I would have been in one of those if the discussion as to who would sit in the back seat had turned out differently . . . Michael, having been in the field that year with John, took the part of "host," insisting that I sit in the passenger seat in front.
I only foggily remember that discussion too, and am not sure if it's really my memory or what has been told me by the family who hosted us for lunch that Sunday. My memory ends kind of spottily, somewhere during the walk from the house to the car, which was parked at the curb, and doesn't pick up again until I was in ICU.
Needless to say, the collision cast a pall over the entire two conventions, and it seemed to provide kind of a relief to people when I showed up on Friday of Gilroy II, eventually making it to a meal - in my wheelchair - on Saturday. I hadn't meant to be the center of attention or whatever, but I got a standing ovation in the dining tent, with folks in the cafeteria line later saying they wondered what was going on in there . . . I was just tired of lying in bed!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 17:05:24 GMT -5
I remember Charles Middleswarth mentioning in prayer about those in Gilroy. It took me a minute to figure out why he was praying for those in Gilroy. Nice he was thoughtful enough to mention this in a convention prayer. Anniversaries always bring back memories and sometimes it is hard to deal with some of them.
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Post by lazarus66 on Sept 10, 2012 20:39:29 GMT -5
Alan, yep, long time ago, and glad to have you with us still. I am sure there are many unanswered questions, but the important thing is that you are around still to seek them. I am sure if you know the other boys well, you would have a feeling that they would not be considered on the wrong side of things, for those of us that have left. I think they were honest in their hearts, as were you, and maybe someday it will all be clear. Thanks again for sharing, and again, glad you are still with us. I know losing young friends is hard and we never understand, so if you ever get a clue, let me know what you think..... Thanks again............Dale
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Sept 12, 2012 13:36:42 GMT -5
Alan, yep, long time ago, and glad to have you with us still. I am sure there are many unanswered questions, but the important thing is that you are around still to seek them. I am sure if you know the other boys well, you would have a feeling that they would not be considered on the wrong side of things, for those of us that have left. I think they were honest in their hearts, as were you, and maybe someday it will all be clear. Thanks again for sharing, and again, glad you are still with us. I know losing young friends is hard and we never understand, so if you ever get a clue, let me know what you think..... Thanks again............Dale Sorry, but I may still be clueless! Interestingly, in some ways the accident was more traumatic to many of the other workers and the friends than it was to me, since I - to this day - did not remember any of it, or the approximately one-hour drive before it occurred. It came as a phone call with dramatic news to many people, all around the world, while I slowly became aware of what was going on throughout the next couple of days, as I alternately woke and slept in the ICU, unaware that I had been in an accident, and having very little pain, even when the medications wore off. I don't get too involved in the questions of "God's will" - I trust that John and Mike made their choices in the integrity of their own hearts, and I continue to make mine, according to how I understand my own kuleana - Hawaiian for "responsibility, place, calling, vocation, authority . . ." I know some of you are aware of this, but if anyone else is interested, I posted a series of photos related to the accident and my several-month recovery in a FaceBook album entitled The Fatal Accident of August 9, 1987..
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Post by lazarus66 on Oct 5, 2012 11:05:29 GMT -5
One thing I learned when my wife had open heart surgery. The mind is designed to block out trauma that is great to the body. When they do the open heart surgery they actually give a drug to the patient that induces amnesia as the surgery is so invasive and traumatic to the body. I believe that your mind will never remember Alan, and be glad. Again, glad you are still around, and I am sure that you have special feelings for John and Mike. It is sad too, when a person like the driver that caused the accident is ill and probably didn't really care about his own life. Drunk or not, I am sure his last days were not pleasant.
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Post by sharonw on Nov 10, 2012 22:42:14 GMT -5
Shock, physical and/or mental, anesthetic agents and pain medications and even other medications used for maintianing holestatis can affect the patients' memory just because there are too many things coming on board all at once. But of course, shock initially at the aftermath of the collision would have been sufficient to block information from the patient's brain. Also the brain will shut down when some great trauma has happened in such as both of the other men were likely totally unresponsive at the collision site even if Alan was responsive to some degree.
Anytime someone been in a car accident and has immediate surgery they are not apt to remember much of anything due to the shock and then the anesthetic agents......the mind can take in just so much....
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