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Post by apple on Dec 26, 2010 15:53:40 GMT -5
I have heard so often about the workers and how they diligently seek to spread the gospel through out the world but as a child I would wonder why I have never heard of a single worker who went to spread their version of the gospel to areas where people only spoke Irish, Welsh and Scottish.I did hear of a male worker from around Cork in Ireland who spoke Irish fluently and annoyed quite a few of the Two by Twos in Northern Ireland by reading from his Irish language bible (he must have preached in English to an English based audience) but that is all I am aware of. I felt if the English speakers were worthy of the gospel, why not those who don't have English as a first language? Is there any evidence that the workers went to Gaeltachts or of non-English speakers from Ireland, Scotland or Wales professing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 18:07:58 GMT -5
The workers certainly went to the Western Isles of Scotland. A few English/Gaelic speaking friends may even still be on these islands. However, I suspect the gospel was delivered in English. However, I don't know about the early days. Remember, for many years it was the King James's version of the Bible that was the sole reference.
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Post by apple on Dec 26, 2010 18:59:26 GMT -5
The workers certainly went to the Western Isles of Scotland. A few English/Gaelic speaking friends may even still be on these islands. However, I suspect the gospel was delivered in English. However, I don't know about the early days. Remember, for many years it was the King James's version of the Bible that was the sole reference. I am aware that there are meeting folk on the Shetland Islands-- or some Scottish island, having met some.I wish I'd asked them when the workers came to their island. In 1690 the first bible in Irish was produced if this link is correct: www.answers.com/topic/bible-in-irishAccording to this link parts of the bible were being translated in Welsh before the 15th century: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_BibleAnd the bible was translated in Scottish in 1690: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2011 17:59:57 GMT -5
The friends I knew of were on Harris in the Outer Hebrides (Stornoway area?). They were relatively few in number. I don't know the current status.
btw Scottish Gaelic should not be confused with the "Scots" language, which is a very broad corruption of the Queen's English which was spoken mainly in the Scottish lowlands.
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Post by scotswoman on Feb 12, 2011 2:50:29 GMT -5
Gaelic is not spoken in Shetland
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 4:21:34 GMT -5
That's right SW, they speak in Norse Code !
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Post by scotswoman on Feb 12, 2011 9:43:23 GMT -5
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Post by apple on Feb 12, 2011 11:09:32 GMT -5
That's right SW, they speak in Norse Code ! ;D
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 14, 2011 1:16:04 GMT -5
I could ask my family about this. They would know the answer.
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Post by apple on Feb 14, 2011 11:31:12 GMT -5
I could ask my family about this. They would know the answer. Please do. Thank you shushy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 17:34:02 GMT -5
I remember the late gentle worker Norman Campbell telling us about a worker who knew the Gaelic and went to Patagonia in South America. He thought he was going to have language (Spanish) problems, but the first person he spoke to spoke the Gaelic. Apparently there was a Gaelic speaking community down there, descended from Gaelic speaking Scots.
I think Norman was from the Western Isles (utter Hebrides).
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Post by apple on Feb 14, 2011 18:13:20 GMT -5
I remember the late gentle worker Norman Campbell telling us about a worker who knew the Gaelic and went to Patagonia in South America. He thought he was going to have language (Spanish) problems, but the first person he spoke to spoke the Gaelic. Apparently there was a Gaelic speaking community down there, descended from Gaelic speaking Scots. I think Norman was from the Western Isles (utter Hebrides). That's extraordinary! I've heard that there are (or at least were) areas in New York where the people spoke only Irish Gaeilge.Apparently the biggest Gaeltacht outside Ireland is in Canada. So the workers must have came to the Hebrides?Or did Norman meet them on the mainland?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 18:49:26 GMT -5
I cannot recall exactly, but I do believe that Norman came from the Outer Hebrides. However I may be wrong. I know he came from a religious family and that some (?) of his brothers were ministers, probably in the Free Church of Scotland? My memory is hazy with all this. Perhaps someone can clarify.
He was certainly referring to another brother worker going out to Patagonia (who spoke the Gaelic). Sorry I don't recall any more than that. Norman was a very gentle man.
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Post by scotswoman on Feb 15, 2011 16:36:19 GMT -5
I remember Norman MacLean. He was in our house many times. He might have been a Lewis man. There were a lot of meeting folk on Lewis. I remmber Cathy and Murdo. Would their last name have been MacLeod? They lived on a croft and had a lot o bairns
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Post by emerald on Feb 15, 2011 19:07:28 GMT -5
I have heard so often about the workers and how they diligently seek to spread the gospel through out the world but as a child I would wonder why I have never heard of a single worker who went to spread their version of the gospel to areas where people only spoke Irish, Welsh and Scottish.I did hear of a male worker from around Cork in Ireland who spoke Irish fluently and annoyed quite a few of the Two by Twos in Northern Ireland by reading from his Irish language bible (he must have preached in English to an English based audience) but that is all I am aware of. I felt if the English speakers were worthy of the gospel, why not those who don't have English as a first language? Is there any evidence that the workers went to Gaeltachts or of non-English speakers from Ireland, Scotland or Wales professing? I don't think it's necessary to learn Irish in order to reach people in the Irish speaking areas. All these people speak adequate English (as it were their mother tongue) and those that speak English as a second language are few in number. As for annoying Northern Irish friends with an Irish Bible, I can only imagine they felt as frustrated as if someone were speaking to them in Swahili. If they can't understand the language, speaking it is pointless. And if the worker knew it frustrated them, whyever would he persist? Are you sure of the details?
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Post by apple on Feb 16, 2011 11:07:08 GMT -5
I have heard so often about the workers and how they diligently seek to spread the gospel through out the world but as a child I would wonder why I have never heard of a single worker who went to spread their version of the gospel to areas where people only spoke Irish, Welsh and Scottish.I did hear of a male worker from around Cork in Ireland who spoke Irish fluently and annoyed quite a few of the Two by Twos in Northern Ireland by reading from his Irish language bible (he must have preached in English to an English based audience) but that is all I am aware of. I felt if the English speakers were worthy of the gospel, why not those who don't have English as a first language? Is there any evidence that the workers went to Gaeltachts or of non-English speakers from Ireland, Scotland or Wales professing? I don't think it's necessary to learn Irish in order to reach people in the Irish speaking areas. All these people speak adequate English (as it were their mother tongue) and those that speak English as a second language are few in number. As for annoying Northern Irish friends with an Irish Bible, I can only imagine they felt as frustrated as if someone were speaking to them in Swahili. If they can't understand the language, speaking it is pointless. And if the worker knew it frustrated them, whyever would he persist? Are you sure of the details? emerald, in Irish speaking areas their mother tongue is Irish, not English, hence it would be important to be able to speak Irish with them. Yes, those in all Irish areas speak adequate English but they are not comfortable speaking English.I used to know someone from an Irish speaking area, she spoke English perfectly but was convinced her English grammar was weak.Another factor is the older generations in such areas may not be as fluent as the younger people.Young children from Irish only areas do not understand English, it's something they have to learn in school so if a worker (or any kind of priest, minister, missionary) came into the area to preach in English the younger and older folks may not completely understand what's being preached.The language barrier still exists in that sense. Besides, isn't it the height of ill manners to come into an area expecting the locals to understand English when we know the locals do not speak English (cannot and sometimes will not)? Would you go to France and expect the locals to speak English?Or what about China or Russia? And isn't expecting Irish speakers to understand services in English akin to the RCC expecting people the world over to understand Latin in mass? People in all Irish speaking areas are not obliged to speak English; they can do school state exams in Irish, can vote in Irish, can watch TV in Irish, can listen to the radio in Irish, can speak Irish in the Irish government, can speak Irish when meeting up with EU leaders, can speak in Irish in court and with the police.Therefore if someone wants to come along and preach at them in English, they will probably find themselves preaching to an empty room. ;D Anyway hiring a room for an event in the English language is probably not permitted in a gaeltacht, because the Irish state wants to protect Irish and stop any more exposure of the English language to Irish speakers.An example of this extreme dedication to maintaining Irish is those who are not 100% fluent in Irish cannot buy a house in a gaeltacht. I don't know much about that brother worker other than he liked to use a bible in Irish.It is said that he came from Cork, Ireland and that Irish was his first language.If this is true, then he was not out to annoy non-Irish speakers, and surely, he preached in English?I confess I am curious about him but that's all I know.Maybe someone may know more?
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Post by emerald on Feb 16, 2011 12:03:57 GMT -5
I don't think it's necessary to learn Irish in order to reach people in the Irish speaking areas. All these people speak adequate English (as it were their mother tongue) and those that speak English as a second language are few in number. As for annoying Northern Irish friends with an Irish Bible, I can only imagine they felt as frustrated as if someone were speaking to them in Swahili. If they can't understand the language, speaking it is pointless. And if the worker knew it frustrated them, whyever would he persist? Are you sure of the details? emerald, in Irish speaking areas their mother tongue is Irish, not English, hence it would be important to be able to speak Irish with them. Yes, those in all Irish areas speak adequate English but they are not comfortable speaking English.I used to know someone from an Irish speaking area, she spoke English perfectly but was convinced her English grammar was weak.Another factor is the older generations in such areas may not be as fluent as the younger people.Young children from Irish only areas do not understand English, it's something they have to learn in school so if a worker (or any kind of priest, minister, missionary) came into the area to preach in English the younger and older folks may not completely understand what's being preached.The language barrier still exists in that sense. Besides, isn't it the height of ill manners to come into an area expecting the locals to understand English when we know the locals do not speak English (cannot and sometimes will not)? Would you go to France and expect the locals to speak English?Or what about China or Russia? And isn't expecting Irish speakers to understand services in English akin to the RCC expecting people the world over to understand Latin in mass? People in all Irish speaking areas are not obliged to speak English; they can do school state exams in Irish, can vote in Irish, can watch TV in Irish, can listen to the radio in Irish, can speak Irish in the Irish government, can speak Irish when meeting up with EU leaders, can speak in Irish in court and with the police.Therefore if someone wants to come along and preach at them in English, they will probably find themselves preaching to an empty room. ;D Anyway hiring a room for an event in the English language is probably not permitted in a gaeltacht, because the Irish state wants to protect Irish and stop any more exposure of the English language to Irish speakers.An example of this extreme dedication to maintaining Irish is those who are not 100% fluent in Irish cannot buy a house in a gaeltacht. I don't know much about that brother worker other than he liked to use a bible in Irish.It is said that he came from Cork, Ireland and that Irish was his first language.If this is true, then he was not out to annoy non-Irish speakers, and surely, he preached in English?I confess I am curious about him but that's all I know.Maybe someone may know more? I didn't claim that English is their mother tongue. It is the mother tongue however, for probably 99% of the population and how much easier it makes life for them. That said, I was touring in an Irish-speaking area some time ago and encountered people whose first language was Irish. Their English was fluent as was that of the young people. There were even some young people wearing English football jerseys so I'm guessing if I wanted to talk (were I knowledgeable) of the merits or otherwise of a certain footballer's skills, their language would be comprehensible, if likely punctuated heavily with expletives. All in English of course. I daresay if you offered them money to do a job for you, they'd be pretty fluent too. I'd imagine there are many priests whose command of the Irish language is as lacking as that of any Irish worker. (Those born in the South of course.) It boils down to what is important to a person - salvation? Football? Money?
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Post by apple on Feb 16, 2011 12:23:27 GMT -5
I daresay if you offered them money to do a job for you, they'd be pretty fluent too. I bet! It boils down to what is important to a person - salvation? Football? Money? I'm not sure that I would agree on that.I see it more as a manners thing to speak Irish in an Irish speaking area just as Irish speakers speak English in English speaking areas.
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Post by emy on Feb 16, 2011 14:20:10 GMT -5
I'd say you nailed it there!
I've been there. I know what type don't speak English.
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Post by scotswoman on Feb 16, 2011 14:31:56 GMT -5
Most Gaelic speakers are bi-lingual. Bit it's grand to converse in the local language or dialect and to learn the literature and songs. I have a collection of Gaelic psalms. Grand singers
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Post by apple on Feb 16, 2011 14:59:04 GMT -5
Most Gaelic speakers are bi-lingual. Bit it's grand to converse in the local language or dialect and to learn the literature and songs. I have a collection of Gaelic psalms. Grand singers www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3MzZgPBL3Q
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Post by shushy on Feb 25, 2011 3:57:10 GMT -5
My sis told me that there was a Welsh worker who preached in his native tongue in Wales. I dont remember ever hearing that. Sis will let me know his name when she remembers. .
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