Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 9:59:12 GMT -5
Yes there are registered members that are current workers on the TMB. What would be the difference between them using their real names and you using your real name? Posting here as a known worker has gotten a lot of unwanted attention sent their way. Rather than ask questions and accept the answers as being from that individual worker there were those that expected them to speak on behalf of all the workers. Scott Correct. I couple of workers have told me that reading sites like these are like eating rat poison. Obviously these workers appreciate the healing properties of TMB. Rat poison (warfarin) is often prescribed to people suffering from ailments like thrombosis or blood clots. It thins the blood. If your spirituality is hardening up or in threat of clogging, thereby putting the life of your soul at risk, then reading a dose or two of TMB might just keep your soul's life blood flowing for you. I'm sure this is what these considerate workers would have had in mind?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 10:01:17 GMT -5
ScholarGal, In thinking about it, I think what you mentioned about what a new friend had done is the answer. We all learn differently, so perhaps the answer is simple: we will do what the new friend you mentioned did if that’s what we need and we won’t if that isn’t necessary for us personally.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Aug 16, 2010 10:45:45 GMT -5
Al, I think you can reply in this section to comments from here. Today at 1:11am, Al wrote: I've been overhearing a few of your comments . . . maybe I'll just use this particular one as a springboard for a few reflections - and I'm not directing my comments at this person or at anyone in particular, except myself . . . Yesterday at 10:38pm, emy wrote: It might be that there are fewer essentials than we think thus greater unity. I am not really widely traveled, outside of the US, but where I have been, I have been quite impressed at the unity. My personal feeling is that it doesn't come from "worker control." Control has been attempted by far greater "personalities" and there has been less success!I'm sure many of us could debate endlessly on power, unity, and related topics, and really accomplish very little. For me, the issue comes down to just willingly addressing things that have hurt people. It's easy to say someone is "bitter," or that "the way is perfect." But, if something is of God, should it not be able to withstand people questioning it? Why just tell the questioner that he/she has a problem" I was angry for awhile, and I wanted to expose people. Now, I simply feel that there are things that need to be addressed. I feel no need to attempt to "preserve" the system, but neither do I feel that I want to "topple" it. If we just lay down the defenses, situations that are problematic can be resolved, and those that are already in order need not fear. But, to help workers and friends to lay down their defenses, don't we all need to lay ours down too? We'll feel vulnerable, but it's a safe position to be in, and we'll make others feel safe. I do believe that when we start addressing things like this, we will find that power exists in many - thousands, millions - of intersecting and overlapping relationships. Just like I mentioned about an older companion, and a certain power he held over me in adding to my confusion - that brings a power of doubt and fear over a person. But, like the friends I told about who came to me for advice, people also granted me a certain power to influence their choices, though it was likely very small at that time! I'm not defining these powers as good or bad, but simply saying that they exist, and that power isn't necessarily something that comes down from an authority "way up there" somewhere. And really, in making ourselves vulnerable, we keep a lot of power for ourselves - we don't get caught up in the blame game - accusing, assigning guilt, defending a position . . . it's endless. emy here again: I'm confused about the connection between what you wrote and what I wrote. Are you saying that the unity I have experienced likely IS worker control?
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 16, 2010 11:30:13 GMT -5
I'm confused about the connection between what you wrote and what I wrote. Are you saying that the unity I have experienced likely IS worker control? Sorry to confuse you, Emy. I'm attempting to say that I don't think it's as simple as saying it's either "worker control" or "unity." I believe "power," or "control," exists in many places, dispersed throughout a community of society. "Unity" can also be seen in many ways. I have heard workers stating that they want the convention meeting times here in Hawai`i the same as the times on the continent, so "visitors will feel comfortable." I realize that you aren't talking about things like this when you speak of unity, but I do believe that getting everyone "on the same page" as far as meeting format, study topics, etc. can play a part in a feeling of unity. But I do feel that a far greater part of what we perceive as unity is also created through our talk - things that are talked about in a certain way, which we hear repeatedly. I'm not saying it's a bad thing - God can still be in it, but many communities have a certain "unity" because people are concerned about the same things and talk about them in a certain way. I'm not trying to say there is no unity, but I am saying we need to be careful to not simply use the idea of unity as a "blanket" to cover up problems. And I'm not saying you are doing this - I don't think I even know you! Sometimes a unity may exist between certain individuals or groups of people, but it can be a problem when we assume that means there is unity everywhere, between all people in the fellowship. Conversely, it's also important that those of us who have experienced hurt from workers or friends do not assume that everyone or every group in the fellowship is the same! In my studies, we attempt to interrogate these "monolithic" structures that most of us assume to exist. We like to just assume "they" all "do such-and-such." But it's never that simple. If we can just lay aside assumptions (and our swords!), no matter which "side of the fence" we're on, we'll find that we have much more in common than we thought, and we will be better able to understand one another's viewpoints. Am I making sense?
|
|
|
Post by ts on Aug 16, 2010 11:33:38 GMT -5
Are there really some current workers who post here??? Do they post anonymously? Why? Would it hurt their ministry if they told the truth here and put their name to it? I would like to speak to a worker if you are out there and want to chat. Yes there are registered members that are current workers on the TMB. What would be the difference between them using their real names and you using your real name? Posting here as a known worker has gotten a lot of unwanted attention sent their way. Rather than ask questions and accept the answers as being from that individual worker there were those that expected them to speak on behalf of all the workers. Scott I am anonymous because of real safety issues concerning my family. There are friends and workers who have threatened us and caused us damage as a family. So, I do not think the reasons for a worker being anonymous is the same as for us. A worker appears before thousands of people per year with his name on numerous lists. He does indeed speak for all workers in convention. If he did not, he would be censured. So what is the difference in preaching the gospel in the field, at convention or on the TMB? If they speak the truth, it will hold up to scrutiny. If they do not want unwanted attention, get a different job. Do you think that Paul wanted to be stoned, beaten and put in prison? If that is the life they have chosen and they are speaking righteousness, then suffer for righteousness' sake. If they are not speaking righteousness' sake, then they would do well to change. Either way, they win. There were two sister workers who gave anonymous support to a victim of CSA. I would have liked to see them put their reputation on the line because the reputation of the victim certainly suffered all those years. I would have liked to see more than just two letters of support, also. I would be glad to know of any workers here. Send me a PM if you like.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 16, 2010 11:37:13 GMT -5
Hey Nathan! Grab a cup of coffee, sit down, and talk story wid us . . .
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 16, 2010 11:51:58 GMT -5
I've been overhearing a few of your comments . . . maybe I'll just use this particular one as a springboard for a few reflections - and I'm not directing my comments at this person or at anyone in particular, except myself . . . It might be that there are fewer essentials than we think thus greater unity. I am not really widely traveled, outside of the US, but where I have been, I have been quite impressed at the unity. My personal feeling is that it doesn't come from "worker control." Control has been attempted by far greater "personalities" and there has been less success! I'm sure many of us could debate endlessly on power, unity, and related topics, and really accomplish very little. For me, the issue comes down to just willingly addressing things that have hurt people. It's easy to say someone is "bitter," or that "the way is perfect." But, if something is of God, should it not be able to withstand people questioning it? Why just tell the questioner that he/she has a problem" I was angry for awhile, and I wanted to expose people. Now, I simply feel that there are things that need to be addressed. I feel no need to attempt to "preserve" the system, but neither do I feel that I want to "topple" it. If we just lay down the defenses, situations that are problematic can be resolved, and those that are already in order need not fear. But, to help workers and friends to lay down their defenses, don't we all need to lay ours down too? We'll feel vulnerable, but it's a safe position to be in, and we'll make others feel safe. I do believe that when we start addressing things like this, we will find that power exists in many - thousands, millions - of intersecting and overlapping relationships. Just like I mentioned about an older companion, and a certain power he held over me in adding to my confusion - that brings a power of doubt and fear over a person. But, like the friends I told about who came to me for advice, people also granted me a certain power to influence their choices, though it was likely very small at that time! I'm not defining these powers as good or bad, but simply saying that they exist, and that power isn't necessarily something that comes down from an authority "way up there" somewhere. And really, in making ourselves vulnerable, we keep a lot of power for ourselves - we don't get caught up in the blame game - accusing, assigning guilt, defending a position . . . it's endless. (This was originally posted in the Coffee Talk thread, but I moved it over here, following Emy's suggestion to post responses to your comments here in "For eavesdroppers.")
|
|
|
Post by ScholarGal on Aug 16, 2010 11:53:03 GMT -5
ScholarGal, In thinking about it, I think what you mentioned about what a new friend had done is the answer. We all learn differently, so perhaps the answer is simple: we will do what the new friend you mentioned did if that’s what we need and we won’t if that isn’t necessary for us personally. Just to clarify-- the young lady with the reference list of verses wasn't new to the friends and workers. She was born & raised in the fellowship.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 16, 2010 12:12:53 GMT -5
Posting here as a known worker has gotten a lot of unwanted attention sent their way. Rather than ask questions and accept the answers as being from that individual worker there were those that expected them to speak on behalf of all the workers. A worker appears before thousands of people per year with his name on numerous lists. He does indeed speak for all workers in convention. If he did not, he would be censured. So what is the difference in preaching the gospel in the field, at convention or on the TMB? If they speak the truth, it will hold up to scrutiny. If they do not want unwanted attention, get a different job. Do you think that Paul wanted to be stoned, beaten and put in prison? If that is the life they have chosen and they are speaking righteousness, then suffer for righteousness' sake. If they are not speaking righteousness' sake, then they would do well to change. Either way, they win. There were two sister workers who gave anonymous support to a victim of CSA. I would have liked to see them put their reputation on the line because the reputation of the victim certainly suffered all those years. I would have liked to see more than just two letters of support, also. Scott and ts both make good points here. I can understand a worker's hesitance, well knowing he/she may be blasted, and perhaps his/her words even misinterpreted and spread around. But I can also well relate to what ts is saying about willingness to "stick your neck out." This is personal with me, as when Jayne and I were going through our trauma - which spanned about 6½ years - there were several people with whom we visited, and who were sympathetic, but were ultimately unwilling to stand with us when it came down to "putting their neck on the line." I don't know if someone who hasn't gone through it can quite comprehend how "unreal" your entire world begins to feel, when everything and everybody you have trusted in suddenly seems to disappear from under your feet. You feel like you're suddenly expected to "not know" what you have experienced; you are told that others had to do and say things because it was "for the best." This is why I chose to use my real name on this board, but I'm not necessarily saying everyone should do it either. I don't have the same threats to my security that ts does. But I can also understand that some younger workers may be listening and considering different viewpoints, yet fearful of disclosing their identities. A person in such a position may be able to help more in the long run by being careful at the present . . .
|
|
|
Post by Barry G on Aug 16, 2010 14:22:56 GMT -5
Correct. A couple of workers have told me that reading sites like these are like eating rat poison. Rat poison is what keeps me alive ;D Rat poison is a common blood thinner taken in a drug called CoumadinSo it's not bad in its self, it only becomes bad in the wrong quantities.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 20:22:54 GMT -5
Hey Nathan! Grab a cup of coffee, sit down, and talk story wid us . . . ~~ ... I am enjoy reading what ts, yourself, and others are sharing.I just found your posting and am happily reading away. Thank you!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2010 21:35:38 GMT -5
Nathan, Again thanks....keep up the good work!
|
|
|
Post by ts on Aug 18, 2010 1:13:06 GMT -5
A worker appears before thousands of people per year with his name on numerous lists. He does indeed speak for all workers in convention. If he did not, he would be censured. So what is the difference in preaching the gospel in the field, at convention or on the TMB? If they speak the truth, it will hold up to scrutiny. If they do not want unwanted attention, get a different job. Do you think that Paul wanted to be stoned, beaten and put in prison? If that is the life they have chosen and they are speaking righteousness, then suffer for righteousness' sake. If they are not speaking righteousness' sake, then they would do well to change. Either way, they win. There were two sister workers who gave anonymous support to a victim of CSA. I would have liked to see them put their reputation on the line because the reputation of the victim certainly suffered all those years. I would have liked to see more than just two letters of support, also. Scott and ts both make good points here. I can understand a worker's hesitance, well knowing he/she may be blasted, and perhaps his/her words even misinterpreted and spread around. But I can also well relate to what ts is saying about willingness to "stick your neck out." This is personal with me, as when Jayne and I were going through our trauma - which spanned about 6½ years - there were several people with whom we visited, and who were sympathetic, but were ultimately unwilling to stand with us when it came down to "putting their neck on the line." I don't know if someone who hasn't gone through it can quite comprehend how "unreal" your entire world begins to feel, when everything and everybody you have trusted in suddenly seems to disappear from under your feet. You feel like you're suddenly expected to "not know" what you have experienced; you are told that others had to do and say things because it was "for the best." This is why I chose to use my real name on this board, but I'm not necessarily saying everyone should do it either. I don't have the same threats to my security that ts does. But I can also understand that some younger workers may be listening and considering different viewpoints, yet fearful of disclosing their identities. A person in such a position may be able to help more in the long run by being careful at the present . . . I can certainly see that point of view. The problem I have is that everywhere you turn, people are thinking that God is going to handle situations that He gave us authority to handle as humans. So people look to some future day and hope and pray things will just work out. Meanwhile, if they had simply been honest and done a couple of hard things 40 years ago, they would not have all the mounds of problems with CSA they are having today. If they had pruned back a little bit back then, they wouldn't have to be tiptoeing through a forest of deceit today. I liken the present approach to the man who saw his neighbor cutting his hunting dog's tail off one inch at a time. The neighbor asked him why he didn't just cut it all off at once. The man said, "NO!! You should have seen how he carried on when I cut of just one inch. If I cut it all off at once it would kill him!!" I get the feeling that the workers are afraid to make any sweeping changes. Afraid to put on a new garment. Much easier to just get some new patches for the old one. I have a feeling that if everyone who wanted change actually made a stand, there would be too many of them to ignore. I have talked to many many friends and workers who would be plenty disgruntled and speak of change. But when it came time to make a stand they were fearful. I often stood alone and was then made an example of putting even more fear them. I read a saying once that said something like, "Everyone wants to be a patriot after the battles are already fought and won." So much is said in the meetings about being a soldier and fighting for truth. So many are convinced that their fight is to do nothing and "the truth" is the system rather than truth and not lies.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Aug 19, 2010 17:20:31 GMT -5
Reaction to recent Coffee Talk:
I wonder why we expect that we should have understood everything when we were 20 or 25 that we understand at 40? Or why we should understand everything at 40 that we do at 60+?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 21:54:01 GMT -5
I t hink it would be interesting to hear what it was like the first time anyone was the "older" companion....or the first time they had a "first year in the work" companion.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 20, 2010 1:22:07 GMT -5
Reaction to recent Coffee Talk: I wonder why we expect that we should have understood everything when we were 20 or 25 that we understand at 40? Or why we should understand everything at 40 that we do at 60+? Which specific posts or statements are you responding to, Emy?
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 20, 2010 1:45:43 GMT -5
I t hink it would be interesting to hear what it was like the first time anyone was the "older" companion....or the first time they had a "first year in the work" companion. Good idea! I'll write a little about my experience tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Sargison on Aug 21, 2010 17:29:08 GMT -5
Well, I have just come back after a mosey down the boulevard. The cafe's quite full now, not too many table's available. Oh, there's one, over by that lady with the bun. Hang on, all the ladies have buns in here!
We might need to head into the highway's and byways and bring in some more ex. & current workers.
Any currant buns sold here?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 17:48:12 GMT -5
Better watch yourself RobS, you might get a few hot cross buns to contend with?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 17:55:25 GMT -5
Hey Rob, can I sit with you? I have a French Twist and a currant scone I'll share.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Sargison on Aug 21, 2010 19:16:43 GMT -5
Hey Rob, can I sit with you? I have a French Twist and a currant scone I'll share. H'mmmm..... h'berry. French Twist, is that legit now? I'd best check the currant rule book.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 19:20:20 GMT -5
Hey Rob, can I sit with you? I have a French Twist and a currant scone I'll share. H'mmmm..... h'berry. French Twist, is that legit now? I'd best check the currant rule book. Well, I wouldn't want you to fritter away your time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 20:02:18 GMT -5
hey, did Coffee Talk close up shop?
|
|
|
Post by emy on Aug 27, 2010 21:24:07 GMT -5
hey, did Coffee Talk close up shop? Wondering, too. Where did Al go?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 21:37:02 GMT -5
Emy, Do you think it was anything we said? I just settled in with a good cup of coffee and a cookie; I'll guess we'll just have to keep ourselves company.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 28, 2010 4:01:33 GMT -5
I've been sittin' back and sippin' a bit, just listening for what others might say . . . I've been listening in on other conversations here on TMB, which bring to experiences to mind that I hadn't really analyzed before.
I'll share a bit more tomorrow morning . . .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 11:10:34 GMT -5
Well, I was worried that maybe you hadn't been paying for your coffee and had been kicked out--glad to know that's not the case...
|
|
|
Post by emy on Aug 28, 2010 16:26:42 GMT -5
I've been sittin' back and sippin' a bit, just listening for what others might say . . . I've been listening in on other conversations here on TMB, which bring to experiences to mind that I hadn't really analyzed before. I'll share a bit more tomorrow morning . . . Is it morning yet? ;D
|
|