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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jul 30, 2010 14:06:31 GMT -5
I posted this in a thread about the 8/26/10 worker meeting in Seneca, IL, which had morphed, as threads are prone to do . . . ***Correction: It was pointed out that I had erred in the meeting date - I intended to type 7/26/10, not 8/26/10 ***And I am really concerned about this common story of how workers feel like "failures" for leaving the work. Since it is a story that I have heard for decades from men of several generations, what measures have been taken to raise the morale of exiting workers? It wouldn't be easy to give up a life ambition... one would feel like a failure. It wouldn't make any difference what the reason was... a person would feel like a failure. The lack of communication to the friends of a reason... may leave that feeling of betrayal. The way I have come to understand the situation is that our love for them shouldn't end at the door so to say... they are still a brother, given much of their life, their love to all. Those still in the work have each other... the one that has left... doesn't have anyone unless they have an understanding friend and or family. There are lots of interesting and important discussion points around this topic, but I'm just going to reply briefly, citing my own experience in leaving the work after 18 years. I became aware immediately on entering the work how much friends looked up to me - I remember some coming to me right there at Gilroy convention, where I had arrived after working part of the week, then had spoken once. And they were asking me for advice, as if I knew anything . . . Yes, it pleased me, but also made me so aware that I knew nothing. The flip side of this being looked up to is that I felt I was letting people down when I left the work - both family and friends. It's not that anyone specifically said "We want you to stay in the work." But I had a lot of friends among the workers and in my various fields, and many had expressed appreciation to me for having been in the work, and so . . . But I was treated with nothing but kindness by my fellow California workers when I left. A few encouraged me to reconsider or not be hasty, but they were very accepting when I just told them there was more to the story than they really knew about. I was also treated very kindly by the friends. Some expressed disappointment, but were still supportive. Only one man basically told me that I should be back in the work "fulfilling my mission." And, having known him, it didn't really surprise me to hear that from him. I didn't worry about it. But, it is a huge change! Besides the issue of trying to make a living (and I didn't have an education or a skill), it was a complete change of identity. Though friends are supportive, it is an entirely new relationship with everyone - friends and family. I left entirely because of my own struggle - it had nothing to do with an interest in a particular woman. But I was engaged within a few months - I had known her (my wife now of course!) for 15 years. I state this because some assumed I left for her sake. It caught her entirely by surprise too. But what I want to mention here is that it felt extremely strange to say "I have a girlfriend/fiancee." A worker spends his/her life trying to deny those desires, now to just talk about it naturally felt very strange. This is just an example of the switch in every part of a person's identity/relationships. I told this to a professing lady at a convention a couple of years ago. I had known her and her husband for years, they are good friends, and he had just left her. It seemed to me it must bear some relation to a person's position in a divorce or separation. This lady came up to me the next day, and told me that had meant so much to her. Leaving the work probably has a lot of commonality with the "mid-life crisis" too. I don't think there is a way it can be made "easy," but the support of friends - and I don't mean just professing people - is important, as it is in any big change, in anyone's life.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 30, 2010 14:35:29 GMT -5
Al Glad to hear your story. This was my privilege as well. I was never treated in a bad way by workers or friends. Don't you feel though it was because you made friends,by what you were to others. We reap what we sow.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jul 30, 2010 15:14:41 GMT -5
Al Glad to hear your story. This was my privilege as well. I was never treated in a bad way by workers or friends. Don't you feel though it was because you made friends,by what you were to others. We reap what we sow. I think you're right, linford. To be entirely honest, though, I did run into some later things, entirely unrelated to leaving the work, that really threw me. I inadvertently became a threat to the wrong person, and he did not like it! His allegations among the friends really hurt, and workers - many of the same ones who had been so kind to me earlier - basically told me and my wife to "be quiet and quit making trouble." Different time and place, and it became difficult for them to go against "the system." This is why it is so important for me to look at individual people and circumstances. But, it is still true, as you say, that "we reap what we sow." We can still sow kindness and compassion in this situation, although I do address it when there is opportunity to do so.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2010 17:01:00 GMT -5
I believe in sowing and reaping also. That would be a good study.
I do not know how it applies to leaving the work.
I guess you could say that Jesus got what he deserved. According to the pharisees he was preaching falseness, stirring up trouble and jeopardizing their place. I am sure that as they saw Jesus hanging on the cross that they thought He got what he deserved.
But look at what Jesus' sowing has done for us. His life was sown, he suffered rejection, his life was ground and broken and made bread for us. He died as a sinner yet he did not sin. When we eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, we are, among other things, declaring that we will be partakers in His sufferings. His blood makes it possible such that "if we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Jesus was "passive" when it came to being a lamb before the sheerers(ie when they crucified Him and took His life) but he was NOT passive when it came to pointing out the injustices, unjust measures and man-made laws of the pharisees. He was quick to help the poor and weak and the marginalized people in that society....Those that were rejected by the pharisees. Shoot, He even CAUSED one man to be rejected by the pharisees (and the man's own parents) by having the audacity to heal his blindness.
Jesus said that if we are His followers, we will be treated like He was treated OR EVEN WORSE!!!!
So what I am saying is, if we are speaking out against unrighteousness in the ministry that is hurting others and we catch the same persecution for it that Jesus caught, aren't we sowing and reaping what Jesus did? Isn't this what should bring us the most joy in life?
I must say that the workers also encouraged me to stay in the work. I was not emotionally or physically strong when I left. I had seen a lot of confusing things in the work and it affected me.
I agree with you, Al, that we can sow kindness and compassion into the situations around us. Jesus taught confession and repentance (and sent the gospel out with that message) not to hammer us and "expose" us, but to free us. Like in James 5
vs 16 says to confess your trespasses to one another and pray for one another so that you are healed.
James 5:19-20 "If anyone among you goes astray from the truth and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the straying of his way shall save a life from death and cover a great number of sins."
This process is the expression of Jesus' kindness and compassion. The process of being forgiven. This is sowing unto life. Ironically it is the CONFESSION that hides the sin. Covering up the sin makes it linger.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2010 17:09:27 GMT -5
I want to copy here something that Sylvestra said on "seneca workers meeting"(page 9) thread. I think it is relevant to the topic.
I also believe in the "teach a man to fish", and people not living the "woe is me" life.
However, do you know what qualifications ts has to fish? Did he become a worker before he had an opportunity to learn to fish?
When someone has given up everything, including an education or skill, to go preach with the workers....then the workers should at least give them the opportunity to learn a skill. Even in a divorce situation, the husband (or wife) is required to support an unskilled spouse until they can develop the skill to support themselves.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jul 30, 2010 18:27:41 GMT -5
I believe in sowing and reaping also. That would be a good study. I do not know how it applies to leaving the work. . . . So what I am saying is, if we are speaking out against unrighteousness in the ministry that is hurting others and we catch the same persecution for it that Jesus caught, aren't we sowing and reaping what Jesus did? Isn't this what should bring us the most joy in life? I think it's easy to assume that "reaping what we sow" means that life will be easy, everyone will be sweet to us . . . but, as you mentioned, Jesus was crucified for being kind to the needy and the sinner, while he stood firm in his challenge to the hypocrite. Can reaping and sowing also have a lot to do with what we sow in our own hearts, which will of course affect our future words and actions? As you say, it would be an interesting study, and I'm probably hijacking my own thread here . . . Interesting thoughts, ts - thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 19:30:51 GMT -5
I have to say all these posts make me feel dumber than dirt. I've known a few workers who left the work and I never once thought to offer them money. Well, lesson learned and I'm sorry for missed opportunities.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 1, 2010 3:09:04 GMT -5
It's interesting to read the varied experiences in leaving the work. I think the differences again make it evident that we need to be careful in "universalizing" workers' practices. Different times and places, meaning entirely different sets of relationships were involved in each of our experiences.
Many of the California workers - my peers - who were so kind to me as I left the work became complicit in a situation that hurt me and my wife deeply a few years later. I had worked together with many of them through the years - as companions, at preps and conventions, projects, special meeting rounds, etc. - and I had established friendships with many of them. But different issues were evidently at stake in this later experience . . .
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Post by shushy on Aug 2, 2010 5:44:22 GMT -5
My experience was different. I left the work when I was down, sick and tired after having gone thru quite a few intense experiences. Most were distant and a few asked me: DO you need anything? Basically 3 or 4 people in the whole world sent me a few dollars and I was left pretty much hanging out in the dry. I had non professing friends who lodged me and two days later I found a boring job that helped me get started. My overseer offered money, he didn't just send money, he offered it and I didn't take it, in the end, he paid my therapeutic treatment. I feel thankful I was young enough to start again but I lost half of my hair in the process. I had many friends while I was in the Work, when I was an inspiration to many and when the day came when I was low and needy, the emptiness was huge and everyone told me to get close to God who is the only one who could help me! And that is true, He's been pretty much the only one and my two hands who have helped me get started again. Aww...Im sorry you had to go through this. Im sure you are stronger in your inner man for what you suffered. Small comfort that is I know. The school of hard knocks. Often this is the case when your life and ministry has been in demand its like later you discover whether you have any friends. I know for me I was left with a handful of friends who truly loved me and they are still my closest friends today.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Aug 2, 2010 10:14:36 GMT -5
Leaving the work isn't always peaches and cream. I know a guy who was shunned by most for that very reason. But he says it's a good thing because he found out more about that church through those people than he had ever known and is now safely out.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 2, 2010 12:03:32 GMT -5
Leaving the work isn't always peaches and cream. I know a guy who was shunned by most for that very reason. But he says it's a good thing because he found out more about that church through those people than he had ever known and is now safely out. I wonder what kind of a worker he was? If he was a dictator, they could have been glad to see him go. As I've already said I believe in the law of mother nature you can't sow weeds and get vegetables. ;D
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 2, 2010 12:23:26 GMT -5
Leaving the work isn't always peaches and cream. I know a guy who was shunned by most for that very reason. But he says it's a good thing because he found out more about that church through those people than he had ever known and is now safely out. I wonder what kind of a worker he was? If he was a dictator, they could have been glad to see him go. As I've already said I believe in the law of mother nature you can't sow weeds and get vegetables. ;D While it is true that we sow what we reap, that reaping may not always be in terms of what we receive from other people. Jesus sowed kindness and compassion, yet reaped false accusations and crucifixion. And he told his followers that the world would hate them as it hated him. I look for the reaping more in terms of what I have developed in my own heart. If I sow strife among others, I am sowing that in my heart, and it grows in my heart. I don't mean this to sound cynical in what I expect from others, because I do find some true people, and very much appreciate them. But I have found that some people, whom I would least expect it from, have turned very nasty when somebody, unknowingly, got too near a sensitive issue. Having said this, yes, it is wise to look at our own complicity in everything. I wrote earlier - and the admin put it in its own thread - on ho`oponopono, a Hawaiian "conflict resolution" method. This was a means of addressing an entire community's roles in tension that had developed. So . . . I would hate to simply imply that a person brought whatever trouble they receive on themselves, yet, at the same time, I hesitate to entirely blame another party. It's always a complex web of relationships. Jesus taught us to always first look at our own hearts, and I find that to be a safe route. I will sow what I reap, but I try to be careful in assigning someone else's suffering as being their own fault. Let's move from assigning blame to assuming responsibility . . .
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2010 20:37:22 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of a worker he was? If he was a dictator, they could have been glad to see him go. As I've already said I believe in the law of mother nature you can't sow weeds and get vegetables. ;D While it is true that we sow what we reap, that reaping may not always be in terms of what we receive from other people. Jesus sowed kindness and compassion, yet reaped false accusations and crucifixion. And he told his followers that the world would hate them as it hated him. I look for the reaping more in terms of what I have developed in my own heart. If I sow strife among others, I am sowing that in my heart, and it grows in my heart. I don't mean this to sound cynical in what I expect from others, because I do find some true people, and very much appreciate them. But I have found that some people, whom I would least expect it from, have turned very nasty when somebody, unknowingly, got too near a sensitive issue. Having said this, yes, it is wise to look at our own complicity in everything. I wrote earlier - and the admin put it in its own thread - on ho`oponopono, a Hawaiian "conflict resolution" method. This was a means of addressing an entire community's roles in tension that had developed. So . . . I would hate to simply imply that a person brought whatever trouble they receive on themselves, yet, at the same time, I hesitate to entirely blame another party. It's always a complex web of relationships. Jesus taught us to always first look at our own hearts, and I find that to be a safe route. I will sow what I reap, but I try to be careful in assigning someone else's suffering as being their own fault. Let's move from assigning blame to assuming responsibility . . . Yes, Al. Well said. there is a verse that people like to use(misuse) a lot. It is "cast out the beam from your own eye, then you will see clearly how to cast out the mote from another's eye." The sermon always goes, "if you are busy looking at your own self, you won't see the problems in your brother." Well, I think it means that we must cast the beam out of our eye and then turn to help our brother. Like in Psalm 51 10 Create in me a a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy a presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. There is a point that the beam is out of there and we then have a responsibility to our brothers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 21:33:01 GMT -5
Ts, Just spoke about those verses this Sunday morning. I liked the margin reading for "free spirit" as willing spirit. The NIV says "sustain me with a willing spirit." Everything is so much easier with a willing spirit but mine isn't always in that condition.
I've been driving two hours each way for a temp job and the client has not been very kind. I keep wondering if I did too much praying for patience awhile back!
A right spirit--what a joy to be around.
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2010 21:49:19 GMT -5
Leaving the work isn't always peaches and cream. I know a guy who was shunned by most for that very reason. But he says it's a good thing because he found out more about that church through those people than he had ever known and is now safely out. I wonder what kind of a worker he was? If he was a dictator, they could have been glad to see him go. As I've already said I believe in the law of mother nature you can't sow weeds and get vegetables. ;D Eyedeetentee, was the fellow a dictator? Linford has a point if he was. They would be glad to get rid of him. It would be like enabling a moral hazard to keep him in the work. You will know them by their fruits. That might be a hypothetical statement to put in the "dictator" twist. What if there were real situations in the work that are not hypothetical, how do you think we should deal with them? Do you recon the workers would be glad to get rid of other forms of abuses of power, as well? What if a worker were, say, in a longstanding relationship with a woman? Do you think the workers would be anxious to get rid of him if they knew about it? I mean, even if the worker were a nice guy, capable, handy and a good speaker? Or do you think they might enable him to continue his deeds and help him cover them? At what point does "forgiveness" become "enabling?"
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Post by ts on Aug 2, 2010 21:54:05 GMT -5
Ts, Just spoke about those verses this Sunday morning. I liked the margin reading for "free spirit" as willing spirit. The NIV says "sustain me with a willing spirit." Everything is so much easier with a willing spirit but mine isn't always in that condition. I've been driving two hours each way for a temp job and the client has not been very kind. I keep wondering if I did too much praying for patience awhile back! A right spirit--what a joy to be around. yes, I like how David turned back to help his brothers when he got that willing/free/right spirit. It is definitely a joy to be around a right spirit if you have a right spirit. I don't think everyone enjoyed being around Jesus. The money changers didn't enjoy being around His "right spirit"....But I know what you mean.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 22:19:04 GMT -5
Ts, Just spoke about those verses this Sunday morning. I liked the margin reading for "free spirit" as willing spirit. The NIV says "sustain me with a willing spirit." Everything is so much easier with a willing spirit but mine isn't always in that condition. I've been driving two hours each way for a temp job and the client has not been very kind. I keep wondering if I did too much praying for patience awhile back! A right spirit--what a joy to be around. yes, I like how David turned back to help his brothers when he got that willing/free/right spirit. It is definitely a joy to be around a right spirit if you have a right spirit. I don't think everyone enjoyed being around Jesus. The money changers didn't enjoy being around His "right spirit"....But I know what you mean. LOL....yes, being on the "wrong" side of a "right" spirit isn't always comfortable!!!!
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 3, 2010 0:28:48 GMT -5
there is a verse that people like to use(misuse) a lot. It is "cast out the beam from your own eye, then you will see clearly how to cast out the mote from another's eye." The sermon always goes, "if you are busy looking at your own self, you won't see the problems in your brother." Well, I think it means that we must cast the beam out of our eye and then turn to help our brother. [. . .] There is a point that the beam is out of there and we then have a responsibility to our brothers. I heartily agree, and I have spoken about this verse along these lines. I see it as a "recipe" for helping others.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Aug 3, 2010 10:32:54 GMT -5
No, he wasn't a dick tater. He didn't have a problem with the people in his fields or states; it was the people in the state to which he returned after leaving.
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Post by ts on Aug 3, 2010 14:07:52 GMT -5
No, he wasn't a Richard tater. He didn't have a problem with the people in his fields or states; it was the people in the state to which he returned after leaving. Then what was Linford talking about? Look Linford, we are here to discuss issues. We can disagree with each other and even vehemently disagree with each other. But I am sorry to be the one to say this but you are throwing unfounded accusations and that is unkind. Here is your accusation on this thread: Yesterday at 10:14am, eyedeetentee wrote: Leaving the work isn't always peaches and cream. I know a guy who was shunned by most for that very reason. But he says it's a good thing because he found out more about that church through those people than he had ever known and is now safely out. LINFORD I wonder what kind of a worker he was? If he was a dictator, they could have been glad to see him go. As I've already said I believe in the law of mother nature you can't sow weeds and get vegetables. ;D And here is what you haven't responded to below: Never ask a question with an answer in your mind. My answer will not be your answer and will just protract a discussion that has been over discussed. I have stated my feelings plainly and will not be drawn into further discussion on this matter. Linford, A couple of weeks ago when I was new to the TMB, I mentioned that I am in desperate situation. You wrote me a PM asking what my needs were. I told you my story and said that I haven't had a job for five years. I also mentioned how the experience has increased my faith and made me more aware of the needs of the poor. We learned to live in faith day by day. Many other things I wrote you privately and in confidence. Later in the TMB you asked me if I had a job. You already knew that I didn't have a job. I had told you in private that I didn't. It seems to me that you asked me a question that you already knew the answer to. Now you tell me to never do that. You had something in mind when you asked me if I were unemployed. You already said that you give in private, so I doubted that you were leading up to giving me help in public. What did you have in mind when you asked me about my employment status? Now, I want you to see why I have not had steady work for five years. It is because of a worker that is enabled to corrupt young minds. Then you brought up the verse about one who doesn't support his family is like an infidel. I want you to see that the WORKER is the real infidel because he has a "wife" that he is not supporting and has made it so that I cannot properly support my wife and children. Would you like to question this particular worker on his employment and marriage status? He isn't asking for help because he isn't needy. He isn't living in faith. The friends are supporting him. You know, Linford, it is not a crime to be out of work and it is not a crime to ask for help and it is not a crime if you refuse to help. But your accusations are hurtful, immoral and a breach of confidence. I am new here and I like this community. Everyone is free to disagree and say what they like. I like your input, as well, Linford. It enriches me. I also like being in a community where there is a bit of accountability. I have every confidence that you are a kind man with every intention of having a soft heart, and I am sure that your softness and tenderness will reflect in your posts.
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Post by emy on Aug 3, 2010 14:15:40 GMT -5
there is a verse that people like to use(misuse) a lot. It is "cast out the beam from your own eye, then you will see clearly how to cast out the mote from another's eye." The sermon always goes, "if you are busy looking at your own self, you won't see the problems in your brother." Well, I think it means that we must cast the beam out of our eye and then turn to help our brother. [. . .] There is a point that the beam is out of there and we then have a responsibility to our brothers. I heartily agree, and I have spoken about this verse along these lines. I see it as a "recipe" for helping others. Just thought I would throw in mho (my humble opinion) on the verses. I have always thought that after working on getting that big chunk of wood out of my own eye, I would be less inclined to point out the speck in someone else's eye. But I do like the thought that we would be more helpful and compassionate for a hurting brother.
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Post by Gene on Aug 3, 2010 20:26:48 GMT -5
Hmmmm.... I thought it meant that if I'm trying to help a brother clear a speck of dust from his eye whilst half blinded by the 4x4 fence post in my own, I'd probably end up poking his eye out.
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Post by ts on Aug 3, 2010 20:32:07 GMT -5
I like that perspective, emy. I like a compassionate approach to the scriptures.
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Post by ronhall on Aug 4, 2010 12:05:34 GMT -5
After my mother passed away, I cleaned out her stuff in the nursing home she had spent the last couple of years of her life. Among her things was a recent unopened letter from a worker who had left in the past year under supposedly not-so-upright circumstances we were told (unconfirmed because the official reason was never disclosed) thanking her for her monetary gift and her wise advice on the back side of the letter my mother had previously written.
In those words of that original letter were some very wise words of kindly admonishment as well as thanks for that worker's service. My mother shared the experience of she and my father as elders in a meeting home many years before. Apparently they were vexed with an ex-worker in their meeting back then (and I sort of remember this as a boy) who regressed back to the worker mode in a bossy, controlling way, giving long intimidating sermons, complaining about the decor or the meeting room, etc. It was such a very difficult time for my folks that they eventually sold their home and moved to get relief of the situation.
This certainly doesn't happen often, but the potential exists. So I just wanted to show the other side-of-the-coin from the perspective of an elder of the meeting where an ex-worker attends. The point is that our savior was meek and lowly of heart and whenever any of us becomes assertive beyond our place in the fellowship, we can become a stumbling block to our brethren. That isn't just admonition for ex-workers, but for all, including myself.
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Post by someguy on Aug 4, 2010 12:33:50 GMT -5
Thanks Ron, I appreciated that.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 4, 2010 13:53:40 GMT -5
My mother shared the experience of she and my father as elders in a meeting home many years before. Apparently they were vexed with an ex-worker in their meeting back then (and I sort of remember this as a boy) who regressed back to the worker mode in a bossy, controlling way, giving long intimidating sermons, complaining about the decor or the meeting room, etc. It was such a very difficult time for my folks that they eventually sold their home and moved to get relief of the situation. This certainly doesn't happen often, but the potential exists. So I just wanted to show the other side-of-the-coin from the perspective of an elder of the meeting where an ex-worker attends. The point is that our savior was meek and lowly of heart and whenever any of us becomes assertive beyond our place in the fellowship, we can become a stumbling block to our brethren. That isn't just admonition for ex-workers, but for all, including myself. Thanks, Ron - This brought to mind a similar situation in southern California, while I was still in the work. A recently-married couple, who had both been workers in another state, moved to the field where I was working (I was the younger companion). He in particular was very much still in the "worker" mode, and would speak at length, catching people's eye and exhorting all about how they should be doing things. This was very bothersome even to me as a worker - not that I wanted to be the "preachy" one, but I felt it was very out of place for anyone, as it was really "bossy," and not kindly. When I left the work, I became very aware of various (mostly older) men who had left the work - some were "preachy" in meetings, and some were genuinely humble, kindly men. Though I feel, like many have expressed to me about themselves, that there were things I could have done differently, I did choose certain of these men as examples of what I wanted to be.
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Post by emy on Aug 4, 2010 17:24:11 GMT -5
After my mother passed away, I cleaned out her stuff in the nursing home she had spent the last couple of years of her life. Among her things was a recent unopened letter from a worker who had left in the past year under supposedly not-so-upright circumstances we were told (unconfirmed because the official reason was never disclosed) thanking her for her monetary gift and her wise advice on the back side of the letter my mother had previously written. In those words of that original letter were some very wise words of kindly admonishment as well as thanks for that worker's service. My mother shared the experience of she and my father as elders in a meeting home many years before. Apparently they were vexed with an ex-worker in their meeting back then (and I sort of remember this as a boy) who regressed back to the worker mode in a bossy, controlling way, giving long intimidating sermons, complaining about the decor or the meeting room, etc. It was such a very difficult time for my folks that they eventually sold their home and moved to get relief of the situation. This certainly doesn't happen often, but the potential exists. So I just wanted to show the other side-of-the-coin from the perspective of an elder of the meeting where an ex-worker attends. The point is that our savior was meek and lowly of heart and whenever any of us becomes assertive beyond our place in the fellowship, we can become a stumbling block to our brethren. That isn't just admonition for ex-workers, but for all, including myself. This was very good insight to a behind the scenes situation. But is the part I bolded really your impression of worker mode? So sorry if that is your experience.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 4, 2010 17:59:24 GMT -5
who regressed back to the worker mode in a bossy, controlling way, giving long intimidating sermons, complaining about the decor or the meeting room, etc. This certainly doesn't happen often, but the potential exists. This was very good insight to a behind the scenes situation. But is the part I bolded really your impression of worker mode? So sorry if that is your experience. I have witnessed similar behavior by workers at times, and I have witnessed behavior that is entirely the opposite. I think this highlights the fact that we all have very different experiences, and it is dangerous to universalize any group of people - professing people, ex-professing people, Christians, non-Christians, atheists - whomever. Stories are individual, and we need to listen to them as such, and then address particular issues as they are brought to our attention.
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