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Post by apple on Nov 8, 2010 17:58:11 GMT -5
There is no easy way to say this blankets but you have not been saved.When the holy spirit came down upon the people in Acts 2 it instantly changed them.They immediately rushed out to spread the gospel.Paul who was Saul was changed in an instant when God spoke to him. Joy from the holy spirit comes instantly not over time and not when one is a member of just the meetings.It's a joy that is overwelming.It's a joy that remains even in times of trouble and worry (1 Thessalonians 1:6, 2 Corinthians 8:2, 2 Corinthians 7:4, Hebrews 10:34, James 1:2).Peace also comes instantly, and it too remains in times of trouble (Romans 14:17, Romans 15:13,Romans 14:17,Romans 15:13,Galatians 5:22) and there is a strong desire to tell everyone of the gospel, regardless of previous shyness. Wooooowww. How does one reply to that? Ok. Number 1: Joy did come instantly. I said the joy IS CONTINUAL...as in, in continues, every day. Not as in, I was a little bit joyful at the beginning, then my joy increased. Number 2: I see you have no reference for the "strong desire to tell everyone of the gospel, regardless of previous shyness"... I don't believe telling the gospel is all about talking, actually. Google "I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day." Lots to be learned from that hymn. Number 3: If I were you, I would think and pray very, very carefully before you tell anybody that they are not saved. That is not for ANYBODY to judge. And don't bother telling me that workers do that to others, or whatever. I don't care WHO is doing the judging, it is wrong. The only judge of our salvation is God. No other. Wow. I still cannot believe you actually wrote that. Edit: Perhaps I should have said "the joy is continuOUS", having looked up the difference between continual and continuous. My bad Sorry, I was in a rush and read you wrong. Those who do not experience an extreme joy and peace being saved are not really saved.I see you believe that to be arrogant but scripture says we can know a person by their fruits and in NT all those saved have joy, peace and are openly spreading the gospel. I didn't have time earlier for the verses on people spreading the gospel openly without fear but with joy and confidence.Acts 2:4 is a more extreme example of this.Stephen in Acts had the Holy Spirit according to Acts 6:5 and Acts 7:55 and he too had such a desire to speak of Jesus and the gospel that he spoke with confidence to a group of angry men and a council and was stoned to death for it.All of the apostles openly spoke the gospel with confidence, even when they were mocked, threatened, beaten and jailed.The very first time Christians spread the gospel after getting the Holy Spirit they were mocked and they did not let that put them off for they had so much joy in them (Acts 2:13). In Acts 5:40-42 the apostles were forbidden from preaching at a synagogue and yet they had joy in their hearts and continued to do so.Peter was among the group siezed, jailed and beaten- and he along with them refused to not obey this command (Acts 5:28-29)-- yet he had been a coward prior to Pentecost! He had denied Jesus! However at Pentecost he had received the Holy Spirit and that was what made the difference. I think too of Moses even though he was of the OT.Moses was a man with some sort of problem concerning making speeches but God still used him.
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Post by blankets on Nov 8, 2010 20:38:53 GMT -5
Sorry, I was in a rush and read you wrong. Not to worry, these things happen
Those who do not experience an extreme joy and peace being saved are not really saved.I see you believe that to be arrogant but scripture says we can know a person by their fruits and in NT all those saved have joy, peace and are openly spreading the gospel. Extreme peace? Is that not an oxymoron? Perhaps not; anyway, it's only words. I agree that joy and peace have place in one's life when the Holy Ghost is indwelling. I wouldn't want to judge anybody though, and say they don't have joy and therefore must not be saved.I didn't have time earlier for the verses on people spreading the gospel openly without fear but with joy and confidence.Acts 2:4 is a more extreme example of this.Stephen in Acts had the Holy Spirit according to Acts 6:5 and Acts 7:55 and he too had such a desire to speak of Jesus and the gospel that he spoke with confidence to a group of angry men and a council and was stoned to death for it.All of the apostles openly spoke the gospel with confidence, even when they were mocked, threatened, beaten and jailed.The very first time Christians spread the gospel after getting the Holy Spirit they were mocked and they did not let that put them off for they had so much joy in them (Acts 2:13). In Acts 5:40-42 the apostles were forbidden from preaching at a synagogue and yet they had joy in their hearts and continued to do so.Peter was among the group siezed, jailed and beaten- and he along with them refused to not obey this command (Acts 5:28-29)-- yet he had been a coward prior to Pentecost! He had denied Jesus! However at Pentecost he had received the Holy Spirit and that was what made the difference. That's a nice thought about Peter receiving the Holy Ghost. I hadn't noticed that before I think too of Moses even though he was of the OT.Moses was a man with some sort of problem concerning making speeches but God still used him. Yup, and God spoke through Baalam's mule, too. How encouraging!!!
Did you look up that hymn? You should; it really is a nice one.
Blankets
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Post by blankets on Nov 9, 2010 13:14:26 GMT -5
Blankets, I didn't say you were brainwashed. I said that if you believed that those twelve so called truths preached by Irish Workers weren't claptrap you were brainwashed. Of course you didn't respond to indicate whether you believed them to be claptrap or not. How very wise. Oops, sorry. I will address them now.Claptrap1. If you don’t start to profess you will go to hell + 2. If you stop professing you will go to hell I don't believe that. As I've said on here a few times, I do my best not to judge the salvation of anybody else. I don't know who is saved, and who isn't - whether they go to meetings or not.
3. Ours is the only church not stated by a man and therefore the only true church I guess my answer to number 1 and 2 addresses that. And, "only church"?
4. All other churches are false churches and if you go to them you will go to hell See answer 1, 2 and 3
5. We are poor and homeless like Jesus and God’s only true servants. Poor and homeless like Jesus - true. God's true servants - true. God's ONLY true servants - I don't know, don't think so though.
6. All other preachers are false preachers who are going to hell. See first few answers
7. All other Christians are false Christians who are going to hell As above
8. If you date a false Christian you are acting contrary to the will of God and we will therefore excommunicate you Who said that? Things must have changed since you were going to meetings.
9. If you have television in your house you are acting contrary to the will of god and we will therefore excommunicate you Haven't heard that preached, or known anyone it's happened to, so can't really give an answer for that one.
10. Woman who wear make up or trousers or cut their hair are acting contrary to the will of God To be honest, I think that all depends on personal conviction.
11. The Secret Sect book is full of lies Seriously? You've heard workers preach about it? The only place I've ever heard of it is on here. I haven't read it, either, so can't say if I think it's claptrap or not.
12. We do not know anything about William Irvine Never heard William Irvine mentioned.I am not here to batter anyone's faith in the 2x2 God/Way/Truth but remember some of us have stood were you stood, have believed what you believe and have had faith as you have faith. But no longer. I wonder can you explain why? No, I can't. Sorry!I used to wonder why I believed what I believed when everyone else in my town, school, extended family etc didn't. Was I special? Was I lucky? Was I chosen by God? Of course I know now that the answer is simply brainwashing. Most of us who believe have been indoctrinated into the system since birth. That's why the workers are keen for people to attend as many meetings as possible. That's why the workers are so against religious books and mixing with the world. It's all about keeping control of your mind. That's why we believe the claptrap we believe. Let's face it, what other rational person would believe that only the membership of a peculiar little early twentieth century sect could be saved? It's absurd. Refer to my answers to your 'list of claptrap' for my feelings on this. So does this mean that I can be declared "unbrainwashed" by Matt10?
blankets
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Post by rjkee on Nov 10, 2010 4:26:19 GMT -5
9. If you have television in your house you are acting contrary to the will of god and we will therefore excommunicate you Blankets responded: Haven't heard that preached, or known anyone it's happened to, so can't really give an answer for that one.Blankets, On Tommie Gamble's instructions, my father was excommunicated (and had a meeting taken out of his home) in 1994 by Bertie Anderson, Walter Milligan, Willie McBrien and Jack Duncan because he had a TV in his home. My mother was excommunicated at the same time because she refused to say to these workers that she disagreed with dad's ownership of a TV. A full account is at: members.multimania.co.uk/twobytwoabuse/abuse.htmRegards Robert
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Post by rjkee on Nov 10, 2010 12:47:06 GMT -5
blankets,
Yes - the TV was the sole reason. My parents were in good standing with the workers, and a Sunday AM meeting had been in their home for more than 40 years.
Regards
Robert
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Post by apple on Nov 10, 2010 14:50:38 GMT -5
blankets I know adults who got hassle for dating non-professing people, one of whom got a nasty visit from Tommie Gamble.Another person left and married the person she had been dating.From the treatment they had got one would think that they had been caught stealing or something rather than dating outsiders.
This is happening today.It's just hidden but it is still happening.
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Post by apple on Nov 10, 2010 16:39:26 GMT -5
blankets I know adults who got hassle for dating non-professing people, one of whom got a nasty visit from Tommie Gamble.Another person left and married the person she had been dating.From the treatment they had got one would think that they had been caught stealing or something rather than dating outsiders. This is happening today.It's just hidden but it is still happening. I know, and have known over the past few years a good few people in this situation. To all of those, the workers have been generally understanding and certainly those I know haven't been treated badly. Not suggesting that you aren't telling the truth, obviously that's just how it's been with the one's I know. blankets But you when Matt10 said just the same thing you replied: Who said that? Things must have changed since you were going to meetings.
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Post by blankets on Nov 12, 2010 18:40:18 GMT -5
I know, and have known over the past few years a good few people in this situation. To all of those, the workers have been generally understanding and certainly those I know haven't been treated badly. Not suggesting that you aren't telling the truth, obviously that's just how it's been with the one's I know. blankets But you when Matt10 said just the same thing you replied: Who said that? Things must have changed since you were going to meetings.Think you need to read what I said again: I don't know of any who have dated outside the meetings and been excommunicated for this reason. That is why I said things must have changed since Matt10 was attending. Is that what you understood from what I said? blankets
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Post by apple on Nov 13, 2010 13:56:11 GMT -5
The thing is those people I mentioned would have been excommunicated if they had continued to date outsiders.It does happen except in this case one person left and the other stopped dating an outsider so not to be excommunicated.
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Post by apple on Dec 1, 2010 10:35:11 GMT -5
I am hearing rumours that the worker who was kicked out was gay and kicked out for that.I am sure T.G. crony started that rumour.
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Post by faune on Jan 21, 2011 1:37:16 GMT -5
this is maybe no on topic... for where the conversation is going now... but I've been thinking about what he has been accused off and I've concluded that whether the allegations are truth or not I stand by what I said, the allegations or sin doesn't change my experience with WINQ - my experience and how the Father has used him in my life remains regardless. Otherwise we only use people for the good they do for us and abandon them when they fall short of our expectations. WINQ's guilt or innocence IS of course important in the context of repentance and being restored the Father, but it shouldn't change how we respond to him (not with slander, exaggeration or even just enjoyment of sharing the news etc) If he is infact guilty, but has repented, the churches response should be one of loving and restoring him. When we are weak we need to be strengthened. When we fall we NEED grace... not to "fall from grace" which in my mind is an oxymoron. Is the good we do in peoples lives negated by the times we fall? No I don't think so... It wasn't so for King David, where he fell into various sins, repented after more than a year later and we still use his books and call him "a man after God's heart". A repentant spirit the Lord doesn't despise and we shouldn't despise either... HOPE, your response on this past posting really touched my heart tonight. I was so impressed with what you said: "A repentant spirit the Lord doesn't despise and we shouldn't despise either..." I liked the way you look at things with "hope" for the sinner in your heart. Your handle, "HOPE" is so fitting your perspective on life. Thanks for sharing such a positive point of view here on line!
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Post by breakingfree on Jan 24, 2011 22:43:48 GMT -5
"Here is a response I was asked to post on this thread. I got this by email today:
When I heard that a worker had been dismissed from the work in Ireland, I didn’t even have to read the thread to know who it likely was. The only marvel in my mind is why it took so long for it to happen.
A few facts: The winq has sooner or later become persona non grata in every place he’s ever been in the work. In spite of seemingly endless zeal to share the message with new listeners, and a way of winning people to himself very quickly, everyone we know who has worked with him for any length of time has come to the conclusion that the man is certifiably insane. He manages to get people to confide in him and share themselves with him on many levels, but if he ever turns against someone – which generally happens sooner or later – ruthlessly uses the information against them to tear them down.
People may like to think that it is a liberal vs. conservative clash in Ireland, but the simple truth is that the winq cannot tolerate anyone being in a position of authority of him. Regardless of what position an overseer might take, whether liberal or conservative, the winq would cheerfully take the opposite position in order to win followers for himself and against the overseer – or for that matter, any worker or other person who would seem to be a challenge to him gaining admirers for himself.
I’m not necessarily a fan of what I’ve heard about the current administration in Ireland, but I have to say that if Mr. Gamble is allowing people to think that the winq is leaving because of health issues, he is showing a great deal of kindness and restraint in doing so, instead of revealing the actual problems and making public the deep-seated problems the winq has carried around within himself that have ended up generating difficulties and divisions wherever he has gone."
To me this sounds like the typical maligning of someone who does not fit the status quo of workerism or saintism. I have seen this before.
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Post by emerald on Jan 25, 2011 8:36:31 GMT -5
To me this sounds like the typical maligning of someone who does not fit the status quo of workerism or saintism. I have seen this before. I think you need more facts regarding this situation before you come to your conclusion. Speaking as someone who knows the ex-worker, it is undeniable that he had serious character flaws that he generally kept under reasonable control. It pains me to say the times he wasn't in control, he was a very unpleasant man displaying scant regard for even the things of the Kingdom. And did you know there was another worker put out of the work in the spring time? He was a paedophile.
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Post by breakingfree on Jan 25, 2011 14:31:49 GMT -5
To me this sounds like the typical maligning of someone who does not fit the status quo of workerism or saintism. I have seen this before. I think you need more facts regarding this situation before you come to your conclusion. Speaking as someone who knows the ex-worker, it is undeniable that he had serious character flaws that he generally kept under reasonable control. It pains me to say the times he wasn't in control, he was a very unpleasant man displaying scant regard for even the things of the Kingdom. And did you know there was another worker put out of the work in the spring time? He was a paedophile. Yes, You are right. Perhaps I shouldn't have even stuck my nose in here, not knowing anyone involved. However, I did not make a conclusion. That is why I said "sounds like". It sounds so familiar to situations I have witnessed here where I live. A friend or worker is a little different from the expected form, and dares to think outside the 2x2 box, so they are viciously maligned and sanity questioned. Unfortunately, it's in the playbook of some of the friends and workers. That I HAVE concluded. I'm sorry, I don't understand why you mentioned to me the pedophile worker and how that relates.
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Post by emerald on Feb 3, 2011 19:25:52 GMT -5
I thought you might have an opinion on that too?
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Post by breakingfree on Feb 7, 2011 3:03:40 GMT -5
I thought you might have an opinion on that too? Pedophiles must be arrested, tried and prosecuted to the full extent of the law . I didn't realize this thread was over a year old when I posted. Still getting accustomed to the board.
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Post by lukewarm on Jul 18, 2011 7:33:56 GMT -5
I don't live in ireland any more but always found worker the subject of this thread to be a very reasonable and interesting man. And as others have said, if you ha to chose one f the workers to have a chat with he would be the one.
Recently I have been wondering if he still goes to meetings? It must be very difficult to have to effectively start over again at his stage of life. I hope he is well anyway. Perhaps someone close to the ground could let me know?
Thanks L
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Post by x4r3d2 on Jul 18, 2011 13:04:15 GMT -5
The last I heard is that he is banned from fellowship meetings and gospel meetings in Ireland
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Post by Barry G on Jul 26, 2011 8:55:01 GMT -5
Not sure how it is on the other side of the pond, but here in the US the easiest way for a worker to get sacked is to be playing quarterback ...
;D
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Post by swarupa on Jan 12, 2013 19:40:12 GMT -5
Mr gamble must be a reincarnation of charlie Mitchell in OK.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 19, 2013 14:20:04 GMT -5
The last I heard is that he is banned from fellowship meetings and gospel meetings in Ireland I understand that he attended the special meetings in Portadown in December and attends missions?
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Post by sharonw on Jan 21, 2013 20:18:55 GMT -5
Mr gamble must be a reincarnation of charlie Mitchell in OK. Naww, I don't think so!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 19:06:55 GMT -5
Tommie is vile. My husband and I asked him at conv about divorce - my husband is divorced and he told me that I was like Esau , I had gone for a bit of flesh and he's smirking you know wink wink referring to my husbands private parts I felt like I needed a shower after talking to him. If I wanted to hear that kind of talk I would go down the pub. Gross! Then he spoke about us at the next meeting and had it all garbled anyway he wasn't listening he was getting his next sermon.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by irvinegrey on Mar 28, 2014 7:43:07 GMT -5
Martin this indeed is a very sad experience that you had with someone who shows little understanding of pastoral needs. During my research I listened to many sermons at 2x2 meetings and conventions and I only heard the subject of sex addressed once and that was by Tommie at the Fermanagh convention in 2010 and I quote it in my book, Two by Two the Shape of a Shapeless Movement.
In a meeting with Tommie we discussed divorce and I know his views which show little understanding of the subject.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 12, 2014 5:57:13 GMT -5
Could be sacked if employed Good luck with that. Leave voluntarily I say.
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