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Post by pinkflipflop on Jul 16, 2010 7:23:37 GMT -5
I just wondered if this can really happen for no apparent reason? Have heard recently of a worker who appears to have been rejected by 2x2 in Ireland - allegedly on the basis of a personality clash.
If so, I feel so sorry for the person in question. Have heard the individual preach many terms (pre my exit) and enjoyed listening to them very much. Evidence of the person being educated, able to think, talk and explain issues of scripture in real terms, that made sense to people.
Does anyone know anymore about this?
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Post by rjkee on Jul 16, 2010 12:19:24 GMT -5
Hi,
I heard that the worker in question "annoyed Tommie by trying to get workers to think outside the 'faith mission tradition' box and wanting them to get out and meet people in other ways".
Tommie Gamble is the head worker or overseer in Ireland.
I also heard that there was a second (elderly) worker's name missing from the new 2010/2011 list.
Best regards
Robert
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2010 20:04:29 GMT -5
Hi, I heard that the worker in question "annoyed Tommie by trying to get workers to think outside the 'faith mission tradition' box and wanting them to get out and meet people in other ways". Tommie Gamble is the head worker or overseer in Ireland. I also heard that there was a second (elderly) worker's name missing from the new 2010/2011 list. Someone please encourage this worker to apply for a job on the CA staff!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 3:41:21 GMT -5
Evidence of the person being educated, able to think............. This worker dude should be ashamed of himself. What on earth was he thinking of? It’s ridiculous. We all know that a capacity to think is not a trait for which Tommie Gamble cares. Tommie Gamble prefers men who can’t think; or at least men who can’t think for themselves. Tommie Gamble prefers men who humbly and loyally do exactly what he says. And without questioning. I asked a senior worker once what he would do if Tommie Gamble told him to do one thing but where he felt strongly that God was telling him to do something else. He looked me in the eye and with all the sincerity he could summon said, Matt, you know very well that we have to do what Tommie Gamble says. And that just about sums it up. The 2x2 way is not about God, or God’s will or sitting at the feet of Jesus. The 2x2 way is not about eternal life in or loving your fecker of a neighbour or giving to the poor your hard earned cash. It’s about obedience to the workers and very little else. If this worker dude is upset he shouldn’t be. He should count himself lucky. Being a servant in Tommie Gamble’s late nineteenth century unthinking army is no way for a young man to live his life. My advice to him is to be thankful he got out, to ensure that he stays out and to keep on thinking for himself. There is a whole world out there of art and music and love and passion and wisdom and knowledge and beauty and thinking and all the virtues of the warm embrace of life. Tommie Gamble wants his people to have none of it; he wants to keep them safe in his little artificial box. For himself. And woe betide the man who steps outside of it. Tommie Gamble lives in a world where his word is The Word, where the status quo is utopia and where the servant of the gods gets to be king. He believes himself to be superior to all others when it comes to the affairs of God. But outside the cosy, peculiar, little world of the 2x2 system which he has created, the man has all the credibility of a dead mollusc. Matt10
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Post by emeraldisle on Jul 17, 2010 9:30:23 GMT -5
Oh Matt, you are so funny! You had me splitting my sides. Do you really think that God gives way to Tommy Gamble in matters of conscience for the friends in Ireland? I don't think so.
However, I do agree he holds sway on many issues, which may not be a bad thing, because groups need strong leadership to hold them together and to help them keep on going. Wouldn't you agree?
I will give some credit to Tommy. Years ago when I offered for the work I was told that I was probably more suited to being a wife and mother than being a worker. Time has proved my usuitability for the work and I am very thankful that I was disuaded from following that pursuit, even though I was a trifle hurt at the time due to my overwhelming zeal.
However, time has also proved my unsuitability to be a wife and mother as well. As the years passed slowly by I waited and waited on the lower shelf while all the eligible professing young men set their sights on the glossier offerings on the top shelf. Lol!
I must say that I am quite happy with my lot though. I have many professing friends up and down the country for which I am very thankful and have settled in well on the other side of the Irish Sea.
Linda
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Irish2
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Post by Irish2 on Jul 17, 2010 10:55:38 GMT -5
I've a suspicion that Mr Gamble might have done a lot more harm than he realises with this move. Time will tell. It's no secret that the other workers are all afraid of him, I was told that, at least 7 years ago by a sister worker.
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eh?
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Post by eh? on Jul 17, 2010 13:24:49 GMT -5
I wonder what the criteria are for getting sacked vs transferred?
Heard of a worker from back in the 40's who had issues with the overseer and got transferred. (It's been a while since I heard the story but I think the worker got transferred out of OK)
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Post by diveforcover on Jul 17, 2010 16:16:02 GMT -5
My family spoke to the worker in question today and he's not a happy bunny. The word on the street is that Gamble was just being completely irrational. Apparently the WiQ told him (Tommy) there were things that he agreed with and things he disagreed with and that was that. I think it will bring change. Tommy was alleged to have said, maybe it's time for another split . . . I also know the churches around Omagh / Strabane are spitting furiously about this one, they're hopping mad with Tommy and see the WinQ's only sin of being one of accepting people back into the fold who had transgressed. The plot thickens.
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Post by diveforcover on Jul 17, 2010 18:22:17 GMT -5
Yes September, he was indeed one of their own - and did a lot for people there (and everywhere) so their loyalty is based on reason rather than anti-Tommyism. You're also right about the being brought into line thing too but isn't that just typical - nothing happens until it comes to a terrible head then suddenly all hell breaks loose. There's another sad tale to this too. A professing woman died recently and requested that the WinQ speak at her funeral. Of course Adolf Tommy didn't allow this becasue of his ex-communication so nowTG has managed to alieante yet another group of people. The man has remarkable spirit.
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Post by ex-teenager on Jul 17, 2010 19:23:05 GMT -5
Hi September Are you speaking about the issues that happened in your area? In regard to movement of meetings? Leading to exits, or in other areas?
I rather liked this workers approach. He didn't hold onto traditions of men. He was something this fellowship needed, fresh air. Movement away from just doing, because we always did it attitude. (from what I seen of him) Yes he wasn't your traditional worker.
I notice "diveforcover" has used the term "Adolf Tommy" I wouldn't like to use that term, but I do feel that Tommy needs to be careful, he is looking more and more like a dictator.
Finally, if any divisions do form, Norman is likely to attract the more rebellious side and Tommie the more traditionalist. This could cause a big rift. The worker in question was in the ministry for over 40 years I believe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 22:11:44 GMT -5
Somehow this discussion about which I know absolutely nothing reminds me of a worker in So Cal who died perhaps 10 years ago of cancer. He definitely marched to a different drummer, because at his funeral, he asked the workers to sing The Battle Hymn of the Republic. Well, how many times have you heard that sung at a worker's funeral???
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Irish2
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Post by Irish2 on Jul 18, 2010 2:59:11 GMT -5
September - Can you be absolutely sure that Tommie wasn't aware of the 'exits and unsanctioned removal of mtgs' ??
Diveforcover - was that the funeral of Mrs J? apparently one of the biggest Ireland has seen in a long time.
ex-teenager & PinkFF - have to agree, I always enjoyed WinQ too, similar thoughts to you on not being bogged in traditions of men, ex-t, and I looked forward to him getting on platform, which is more than I can honestly say for a lot of others!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 4:14:33 GMT -5
This is a feckin hoot. I mean, if anyone ever was in doubt that the 2x2 church in Ireland is anything other than one more petty man-made church among many, then it’s time to hang up yer shillelagh. All that rhetoric about the will of God and unity in Jesus and the Holy Spirit’s guiding hand is clearly a lot of nonsense. Tommie Gamble’s God is a jealous God who doesn’t take kindly to the usurping of his authority and one wonders if nash the bash may have become just a little too bashful this time. The usurping of authority supported by a bucketful of self confidence and popularity amongst the people will always be a powerful combination. Eat your heart out Eddie Cooney. Rumours of splits may well be premature but one can see how this would appeal to the likes of Tommie Gamble. Rather than embrace the twenty-first century, Tommie Gamble would surely choose to maintain the status quo of tired and out of touch old men whose idea of a good time is still to snap off yer radio aerial from yer car before sitting down to an extra large helping of home- made sherry trifle and the death column of the Belfast Telegraph. Even back in the mid-nineties Tommie Gamble was a figure of whispered fun and ridicule amongst those who would now be the bedrock of the 2x2 celebrity school. But such is the undemocratic nature of the 2x2 church that Unelected Leader and Supreme Commander of the People’s Army he remains. Tommie Gamble can you hear me? Your time has finally come. It is time to leave the stage and move on. You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go! And go now! Matt10
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jul 18, 2010 5:38:49 GMT -5
ha ha maybe it's time for the rank-and-file workers to have a Union ...
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Post by pinkflipflop on Jul 18, 2010 5:55:59 GMT -5
I have been interested to read your thoughts on this issue.
It's very sad for the worker in question - to have given so many years in the work and then to be so abruptly sacked (or whatever word is really appropriate)
I don't profess any longer but have strong family connections with mtgs so still attend from time to time - as someone on here said Tommie seems to be so hung up on things that (IMHO) are so minor, clothes, shoes etc and then to speak about these things in the same sermon as adultery or fornication is ridiculous.
The (ex) worker in question, I don't believe, would ever have spoken like this - not in my limited experience anyway. Sometimes there is a warmth that draws you to people and I believe that the (ex) worker in question has/had this but speaking purely for myself I don't think Tommie has it. Tommie has the FEAR factor - pure and simple - sorry, that's just what I think.
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Post by emeraldisle on Jul 18, 2010 8:05:12 GMT -5
This thread makes me think of my late Dad. My dad had many friends who were not professing and all of them thought very highly of him, no doubt because of the high standards he lived by.
Very occasionally Dad would go to the pub with some of his non-professing friends and would have a pint of Guiness (no more) as well as watch TV. Of course someone told this to the powers that be and in due course Dad received a visit to try and set him back on the straight and narrow.
Dad was a meek man, someone who was easy to walk over, but on this occasion he told the brother workers that if it wasn't for his friends on the outside he would most certainly not be on the inside. He pointed out that if he only had professing friends and was dependent upon them, then he would be in dire straits. If he ever needed help in any way he always had to turn to worldly people. It was alright for brother workers to point out his failings and dictate how he should live, but they were so used to everyone running after them because they were workers, but it was a very different story for ordinary professing people like my dad.
The workers were dumbstruck. Here was this meek and gentle man telling them that he owed his professing, in effect salvation, to people of the world and not to people of the fold. They had no answer and left shortly afterwards not knowing what to say.
Dad regretted that little episode which was really a major thing to him. Nevertheless it didn't stop him having his occasional Guinness.
Today I feel just like Dad. I dearly love my friends in this way, but if it wasn't for my friends outside the Truth I don't know where I'd be.
Maybe Uncle Tommie should weigh these type of things up better?
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jul 18, 2010 9:03:58 GMT -5
I presume he's just off the workers list - still a fully paid-up member of the church, so to speak ?
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Post by sharonw on Jul 18, 2010 9:05:12 GMT -5
Yes September, he was indeed one of their own - and did a lot for people there (and everywhere) so their loyalty is based on reason rather than anti-Tommyism. You're also right about the being brought into line thing too but isn't that just typical - nothing happens until it comes to a terrible head then suddenly all hell breaks loose. There's another sad tale to this too. A professing woman died recently and requested that the WinQ speak at her funeral. Of course Adolf Tommy didn't allow this becasue of his ex-communication so nowTG has managed to alieante yet another group of people. The man has remarkable spirit.Doesn't even sound like a human spirit, much less the spirit of the dove-like Holy Spirit!
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Post by sharonw on Jul 18, 2010 9:13:20 GMT -5
This is a feckin hoot. I mean, if anyone ever was in doubt that the 2x2 church in Ireland is anything other than one more petty man-made church among many, then it’s time to hang up yer shillelagh. All that rhetoric about the will of God and unity in Jesus and the Holy Spirit’s guiding hand is clearly a lot of nonsense. Tommie Gamble’s God is a jealous God who doesn’t take kindly to the usurping of his authority and one wonders if nash the bash may have become just a little too bashful this time. The usurping of authority supported by a bucketful of self confidence and popularity amongst the people will always be a powerful combination. Eat your heart out Eddie Cooney. Rumours of splits may well be premature but one can see how this would appeal to the likes of Tommie Gamble. Rather than embrace the twenty-first century, Tommie Gamble would surely choose to maintain the status quo of tired and out of touch old men whose idea of a good time is still to snap off yer radio aerial from yer car before sitting down to an extra large helping of home- made sherry trifle and the death column of the Belfast Telegraph. Even back in the mid-nineties Tommie Gamble was a figure of whispered fun and ridicule amongst those who would now be the bedrock of the 2x2 celebrity school. But such is the undemocratic nature of the 2x2 church that Unelected Leader and Supreme Commander of the People’s Army he remains. Tommie Gamble can you hear me? Your time has finally come. It is time to leave the stage and move on. You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go! And go now! Matt10 Unelected leadership often has proven to be the opposite of what the people under said leadership needs...however, there is the option of unelecting the elected if said person gets too out of hand! That's why I reccomend any person exiting out of the 2X2 system to not take up with another religion that does not have a body of electors or a board of directors that keeps the pastor/minister accountable to some degree at least. Bigheads grow on these people in power and someone(s) needs to have the power to unseat them when their heads get too big for them!
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Irish2
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Post by Irish2 on Jul 18, 2010 11:13:19 GMT -5
September, the reason I asked were you absolutely sure is that considering TG is the HQ, surely he would soon reverse a decision if he didn't approve. Especially if he has already a personality clash with the person involved.
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Post by someguy on Jul 18, 2010 23:15:44 GMT -5
someone mentioned (xxxxx)...is the WIQ (xxxxxx)?
Modified to remove the workers name. Although not a violation to have it here, due to the sensitive nature of some of the posts the name has been removed.
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Post by rjkee on Jul 19, 2010 8:42:32 GMT -5
Yes, it is.
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eh?
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Post by eh? on Jul 19, 2010 17:34:53 GMT -5
Did anyone who was at Fermanagh pick up on what he said in his 'state of the nation' address on Sunday? In the same sentence he implied that fornication and high heels were equally as sinful. This could explain why affairs are on the rise. I mean how many really believes that high heels are a sin? And if a worker puts fornication on the same level as high heels ...
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Post by freespirit on Jul 19, 2010 18:38:29 GMT -5
Maybe somebody needs to buy Tommie an anatomy book and a dictionary.
;D fs
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timber
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Post by timber on Jul 19, 2010 23:09:45 GMT -5
Now folks. If someone just gave Tommy a large bowl of prunes, all of this would blow over and he'd feel much better.
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Post by someguy on Jul 19, 2010 23:34:54 GMT -5
Now folks. If someone just gave Tommy a large bowl of prunes, all of this would blow over and he'd feel much better. hahahaahha hee hee hee. Love it.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 20, 2010 18:32:58 GMT -5
Here is a response I was asked to post on this thread. I got this by email today:
When I heard that a worker had been dismissed from the work in Ireland, I didn’t even have to read the thread to know who it likely was. The only marvel in my mind is why it took so long for it to happen.
A few facts: The winq has sooner or later become persona non grata in every place he’s ever been in the work. In spite of seemingly endless zeal to share the message with new listeners, and a way of winning people to himself very quickly, everyone we know who has worked with him for any length of time has come to the conclusion that the man is certifiably insane. He manages to get people to confide in him and share themselves with him on many levels, but if he ever turns against someone – which generally happens sooner or later – ruthlessly uses the information against them to tear them down.
People may like to think that it is a liberal vs. conservative clash in Ireland, but the simple truth is that the winq cannot tolerate anyone being in a position of authority of him. Regardless of what position an overseer might take, whether liberal or conservative, the winq would cheerfully take the opposite position in order to win followers for himself and against the overseer – or for that matter, any worker or other person who would seem to be a challenge to him gaining admirers for himself.
I’m not necessarily a fan of what I’ve heard about the current administration in Ireland, but I have to say that if Mr. Gamble is allowing people to think that the winq is leaving because of health issues, he is showing a great deal of kindness and restraint in doing so, instead of revealing the actual problems and making public the deep-seated problems the winq has carried around within himself that have ended up generating difficulties and divisions wherever he has gone.
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Post by emeraldisle on Jul 21, 2010 2:16:07 GMT -5
Scott, I would like to thank you for posting this. I am not tryiing to defend Tommie Gamble in any way when I say this, but I would just like to say that even Irish coins have two sides.
Also, although I may be too submissive to this way, I am in no way blind to the failings of it or those in charge.
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