ddowdy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by ddowdy on Nov 4, 2008 4:40:59 GMT -5
Courageous enough to answer it. I am sure that many of you know who I am and who my family is. My parents and one sister who follow your cult are good people. I am sure that those of you who know them would acknowledge that. They worship you (the workers) with all the intensity that most of us who are Christians reserve for Christ. There is nothing they wouldn't do for any of you. I know that you are well aware of that. They would follow you into hell itself. Are you really certain that you want to lead them and others like them there?
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shushy
Royal Member
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Post by shushy on Nov 4, 2008 5:28:09 GMT -5
I dont know you dowdy.. Your words I could apply to my family also.
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ddowdy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by ddowdy on Nov 11, 2008 12:58:55 GMT -5
Nathan9 wrote in part,
"~~~ Hi, I am not a worker but an ex-worker so I hope you don't mind for me to jump in shared my experience.
I don't remember any of the friends worship me like they worship Jesus. I know the friends respected me as person for Jesus' sake.
As a worker my main goal was to point others to follow Jesus as the truth, the way to Salvation, Its Jesus who saves us."
I don't mind your jumping in at all. I am sure that you and I have a great many points upon which we would disagree however, I do not question either your sincerity or strength of conviction. I appreciated your correspondence with me as well as, your contribution to this thread Nathan. I wish you all the best.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 21, 2008 14:13:20 GMT -5
Nathan under your avatar:
"God the Father called the Son Jesus, "God and Lord" Hebrew 1:8-12"
So you are saying that after reading the whole Bible, especially the New Testament, that you still understand Heb 1:8-12 as God the Father humbling Himself to Jesus as 'my God and Lord'?
And the reason for this was?
Have you read (just a few for now):
28 "But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, NKJV
John 5:36-38 36 But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish — the very works that I do — bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. NKJV
John 10:28-30 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and My Father are one." (Just as me and my wife are ONE according to Jesus) NKJV
John 13:16-17 16 Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. NKJV
(Now iif the above is not clear, then you have truly been brainwashed.)
John 14:13-14 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. NKJV
John 14:28 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.NKJV
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. NKJV
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 22, 2008 18:31:25 GMT -5
In Hebrews 1:8 God the Father called the Jesus God and Lord was the title/nature He had in eternity..... So God the Father stated the truth when He (the Father) called Jesus or Christ's Lord and God true nature before His incarnation as the son of man and the son of God.
The Son of God is the Son of God before He was incarnated as a human/Jesus, while here as the human/Jesus and read your Bible and you will see that 'The Son' will remain sitting there next to His Father long after this here creation has vanished.
The Son will remain for an eternity the Son and will NOT become the Father ever. The Father remains the Father, the only God in all creation and in heaven. The now elevated Son will continue to give all the honor and Glory to His Father no matter how much love and power and glory the Father bestowes upon Him.
'This is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased'. And this Son will be our brother, the only Brother to whom we can refer to as:'My Lord and My God' acknowledging that if we know Him (The Son) then and only then we know the Father.
John 8:54-55 54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing.
(If Jesus IS GOD, then WHY couldn't He honor himself? God is God the Father no matter WHAT form He takes)
It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.NKJV
(and THAT is another true saying, Amen)
John 14:9-11 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(Is this so hard to understand?)
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
(and if you cannot even do that, then:
or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. NKJV
This is all I can leave you with, I will now let go of your hand, and if you fall into a ditch, it is not my fault.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 27, 2008 22:18:40 GMT -5
I'm sorry Nathan, that was wrong of me to say; "Ill let go of your hand, ..."
We are obviously Not holding hands, nor do we see eye to eye on even the very important things in the Bible, and I was hoping that one day we would.
It is this "trinity" thing that makes me upset, that so few see the implications it has on who Christ said He was. It is a dangerous teaching that is NOT Biblical, or does it have any place in the Bible.
But this does not give me the right to be sarcastic.
I am truly sorry Nathan for being sarcastic, I hope you can forgive me.
Your friend; Odon
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Post by Sharon on Dec 4, 2008 20:58:02 GMT -5
The verses in Hebs. 1 are repeating verses from two different Psalms and those Psalms were voiced, written by mere humans, one was for or by the sons of Korah when it says "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the sceptre of thy kindgom is a right sceptre." I don't read that as God saying to Jesus anything about being "God, the son"! the other is a reference to Ps. 102 which is a prayer of the afflicted when he is overwhelmed. True one can read this as perhaps Jesus' prayer but this prayer was recorded or voiced before Jesus was born. I'm sorry, but I don't get it within these scriptures referred to in this discussion that it is God, the Father calling His Son, God and Lord.
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Post by Sharon on Dec 4, 2008 22:04:34 GMT -5
The verses in Hebs. 1 are repeating verses from two different Psalms and those Psalms were voiced, written by mere humans, one was for or by the sons of Korah when it says "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the sceptre of thy kindgom is a right sceptre." I don't read that as God saying to Jesus anything about being "God, the son"! the other is a reference to Ps. 102 which is a prayer of the afflicted when he is overwhelmed. True one can read this as perhaps Jesus' prayer but this prayer was recorded or voiced before Jesus was born. I'm sorry, but I don't get it within these scriptures referred to in this discussion that it is God, the Father calling His Son, God and Lord. ~~~ If you begin Heb. 1: 1-10.... You will see it was God the Father who prophesied about His Son (Jesus) and calling him as God and Lord.... the title/glory which God the Son had before his incarnation as Jesus the Son of Man and the Son of God.
The name God and Lord belong to Jesus before the foundation of the world.That is the verse that is referred back to Ps. 102:25-27 and then on to Is. 38:10 which is Hezekiah's words...all this Ps. is "A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed, and poureth out his complaint before the Lord." As so was the words of Hezekiah! I still do not read anywhere that these words were God, the Father's to His son Jesus Christ, as in calling Jesus, God and Lord!
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Post by Sharon on Dec 4, 2008 22:09:03 GMT -5
"The name God and Lord belong to Jesus before the foundation of the world." So it was David who said, "The Lord said unto my Lord..." Jesus talking unto God, David got the full vision that there was a plan of salvation made by God and would come in the form of our Lord and Saviour. It doesn't say that David knew His name would be Jesus, but as some of the OT people got the understanding of God's promise of salvation...that that promise would be in Abraham's "seed", not seeds. Yes, Jesus Is Lord of Lords, Prince of Peace, King of Kings...but He still referred and deferred to His Father who is God of all Gods! Maybe to put it like this...the Holy Trinity is like thus....a nobleman has two sons, one an heir, the other a spare...so it is God, the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost! They all have the mind and will of God...the heir by laying His own will down in the Garden of Gethsemane and the Holy Ghost as a ministering spirit that is like the wind...it comes and it goes and no one can tell from which way it cometh or to which way it goeth because it is guided by God!
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Post by Sharon on Dec 6, 2008 21:29:56 GMT -5
NathanB....I just reread these words you quoted in the deaf and dumb Bible which Lyle Schrober has said to read when scripture seems to not make sense...."~~~ Jesus was known by King David as Yahweh God.... God Almighty.... Jesus was known by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Moses by the name I AM that I AM.... Jesus had many titles/names in the Old Testament."
It says that when Jesus said He was 'I am" was to signify that He was Jesus Christ, not that He was the great I AM of the OT........ Jesus was the light that the world was formed by, but it was God who did the labour! The Holy Ghost moved upon people even before Jesus was born....Jesus was "glorified" with His Father, the only living God before the world became a fact. He prayed that He could enjoy that "glory" again with His Father....but there is no way that Jesus and God can be the one and same entity at this time for there would be no need for an "Intercession" and it plainly states that Jesus is our intercessor these days with His Father. It also plainly says that Jesus ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of God....now that plainly gives the impression that there are two thrones...God's and Jesus' at God's right hand...also in the last ch. of Revs. it again states that the Lamb shall be on the right hand of God and that He is the glory of God! Jesus will again return to the throne at God's right hand after His millenial reign. They are an absolute different entity for one is our eternal Father and the other is our eternal elder brother....and as one person posted not long ago that the Holy Spirit can be thought of as the eternal mother for the nurturing that the Holy Comforter does. I'm not saying that you're wrong about Jesus being a God the Son...but there has to be a better explanation to that theory because otherwise it is too confusing and to contradictory to the thought that Jesus and God are two different entities though Jesus buried His mind and will in the garden of Gethsemane so that God's mind and will was His! Otherwise Jesus would never have been able to understand our temptations, our sorrows, our weaknesses and without that understanding His love would have never been full enough to allow Him to go all the way to Calvary's cross....that's what mercy and love is all about, the empathy, the total understanding as if one was in the midst of the trial themself...is it not? I wish whoever wants to put for this theory of God, the Father and God, the Son would put it into better words then just that...using scripture that isn't contradictory to most people's understanding. All that yahweh was was Jewish name for Jehovah in the OT according to the Bible dictionary. Jesus did not have an active part in the OT, His part was pure prophecy and faith and understanding from those who lived in that time. That's why Jesus explained all that OT scripture and prophecy to those whom He walked with after His resurrection. A prophecy is something that is to come, not something that is. Isn't it?
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Post by ilylo on Dec 6, 2008 22:28:10 GMT -5
It says that when Jesus said He was 'I am" was to signify that He was Jesus Christ, not that He was the great I AM of the OT........ It says that where?
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Post by Sharon on Dec 7, 2008 10:41:59 GMT -5
In the deaf and dumb Bible, Jn. 11....it plainly explains that when Jesus said "I am" that He was saying He is the Christ.....you'll need to get the deaf and dumb Bible to read it!
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Post by ilylo on Dec 7, 2008 11:30:28 GMT -5
And where does one go to purchase a deaf and dumb Bible, Sharon?
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Post by Sharon on Dec 7, 2008 14:31:13 GMT -5
"And where does one go to purchase a deaf and dumb Bible, Sharon? " I called the World Bible Translation Center at 1-888-542-4253....they told me that they no longer have the publishing rights for the Deaf and Dumb Bible which they thought Nelson Bible publishers in Nashville, Tn. did have but I can not find that they do have that Bible...HOWever, WBTC said that the "Holy Bible: East-to-Read-Version" is the same translation except perhaps for some pronoun usuages I have bought several of the easy to read versions for gifts, and they are available in paperback for a minimal amount of money. However the last time I finally found a deaf and dumb Bible in came in two book forms and was about $50 dollars! You can call the above toll free number for WBTC and they'll tell you when they'll have more bibles available...they usually print about every 3 months. I find these Bibles easy to understand when there seems to be some ambiguity in the scriptures as well as having head similar ambiguity from the f&w's, probably including myself!
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Post by ilylo on Dec 7, 2008 20:55:21 GMT -5
Their website says nothing about a Bible for the deaf and dumb. Perhaps you meant to say "Bible for the deaf." I'm not sure why you call deaf people dumb.
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Post by Sharon on Dec 8, 2008 11:45:30 GMT -5
Their website says nothing about a Bible for the deaf and dumb. Perhaps you meant to say "Bible for the deaf." I'm not sure why you call deaf people dumb. I did not call deaf people dumb, I simply told you the title of the Bible I have in my possession...it is called The Holy Bible, English version for the deaf and dumb! Those who are born deaf often are unable to learn to speak without intervention by a knowledgeable speech therapy simply because they can not nor do they hear "speech particles" from their environment. Thus they can not speak and are thus called dumb, which is not any degradation to their mentality but simply describes their challenges in life! They do learn to speak the sign language and the sign language is made up of a limited alphabet, thus the Bible they would need is made up of simplistic and easy to understand language. That's why Lyle Schober advised some of us several years ago to utilize that bible to help us get a better understanding of difficult scriptures. It sure does help! As to the Nelson website...no it is not listed on their website, however I think if one was to call them...they could either tell you if they still publish that particular bible or if someone else had bought the publishing rights. I called them last year and that's when I found out that their publication of the Holy Bible, English Version for The Deaf and Dumb was in two volumes and cost $50. I don't think that particular Bible would be ready stock, they only print it when they have enough orders to warrant doing so, any way that's what the World Bible Translation Center has told me in the past!
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Post by Sharon on Dec 8, 2008 11:54:25 GMT -5
"I Cor. 10:4 Did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that ROCK was Christ. " That simply means that "by faith" those of the OT had a vision of Jesus, the Son of God...the promise of salvation. It was a "spiritually drinking" not an actual one! That is why the 11th ch. of Hebs. explains about those preceding Jesus' life's day on earth can know salvation and it is and was simply by faith. Now since Jesus's life's day on earth we all can know salvation through faith in Jesus' blood and resurrection. Faith isn't seen, it's something hoped for and that's what led the faithful ones in the OT.
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Post by Sharon on Dec 8, 2008 22:03:29 GMT -5
"I Cor. 10:4 Did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that ROCK was Christ. " That simply means that "by faith" those of the OT had a vision of Jesus, the Son of God...the promise of salvation. It was a "spiritually drinking" not an actual one! That is why the 11th ch. of Hebs. explains about those preceding Jesus' life's day on earth can know salvation and it is and was simply by faith. Now since Jesus's life's day on earth we all can know salvation through faith in Jesus' blood and resurrection. Faith isn't seen, it's something hoped for and that's what led the faithful ones in the OT. ~~~ The point is.... Jesus was God/Yahweh God the Almighty (NOT the Father but the Son) in the Old Testament. Yahweh God/Jesus in New Testament appeared in human form talking to Abraham in Gen. chapter 18,19.
Yahweh God (the Son) incarnated Himself (Matthew 1:23-25) they shall call his name "Emmanuel" which being interpreted is, God with us.... His name Jesus.
John 1:1-3, 14 In the begining was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same in the beginning with God.... And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh and dwelt among us...
Yahweh God (the Son)= Jesus in the New Testament played an active role in the Old and New Testament time.... after His resurrection.... throughout the ages... even today!It's my understanding that "yahweh" or "jehovah" is a guesstimation of the name that became a very personalized name between Moses and God. The Bible historians relate that in all actuality that they do not believe that the word was ever uttered for all it held in the old scrolls was "yhvh" or some other "consonants" and seemed to be said "Adonai", etc. Later historians app. 1500 AD have added the vowels that make up "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" and it's said those vowels are from the spoken "Adonai". It also says by the Biblical historians that Jehovah or Yahweh was a name given to the great creator, God...meaning "living God" or "God that will be"...otherwords to denote that God is a living God not as the other nations gods who were statues or statuettes! All meaning that as time went by in the OT that the relationship with God, Jehovah, Yahweh, all became more and more relied upon! No where can I find in the historical revelations about the "names" given to God does it insinuate that Jesus at any given time was a "reality" and I firmly believe that because of the prayer He prayed in Jn. 17..."That I might be glorified with the glory I had with you before the world began." Historians also explain the "incarnation" as this...God incarnated Himself via the Holy Ghost's dealing in Mary's womb and thus the son of God was conceived. It wasn't The son who incarnated, but God who incarnated the Son... Evan Jones used to preach that Jesus was half God and half man...some don't like that simile, but I understand what he meant..God's Holy Spirit became incarnated in the baby that Mary bore in the flesh. but that did not preclude that Jesus would be able to miss anything that mankind had to face such as temptations, family duties, etc. He did miss by plan having a wife for God has a more royal plan for a bride for him, doesn't he? His presence in Heaven is really reliant on God's assertion not mankind's, until after He was created in Mary's womb by the Holy Ghost, can mankind ascertain that Jesus was a reality. It says in Gen. "we" or "us" when it explains that God made man like unto "us"...however the royal way of referring to one's self is always in the plural for that denotes a representation of a larger body or one that can become larger. It was God's spirit that moved on the waters of the deep in Gen. Thus we do have record of His Holy Spirit at work in all reality from the beginning...outside of any other reference, God's first words were "Let there be light, and there was light." This was His only begotten son for it says that all was made "by" that light...no it wasn't the stars, nor sun nor moon but that "light" that enabled God to see what He wished to create and how He would create it. Jesus becomes that same "light" within us when we're born again so that God can see how and what to create within us. Thus the truth is born within us because the light of God, His own Lamb is that light....other lights are paling is the best way for me to look at it. Other then Jesus being a human on earth, the "light" of God was singularly effective in His chosen people, the children of Israel...Jesus opened the way up for others all over the world! Thank God, for His ever giving love for that. Before that time which was chosen by God, there was no way that He would let His son face the world...things were not ready in the world and only God knew when that time was ripe! Same goes for when Jesus returns, for Jesus said Himself, that only the Father knew that time, He HImself as son of God didn't even know that time. Do you think that Jesus setting at God' s right hand this very min. knows when that time will be? I don't think so. He busy interceding for each one of us right now and He's trusting His Father to know when that time is right! I'm certain of that...He submitted His will and mind to God in the garden of Gethsemane so I don't think He'd be going around Heaven plaguing God "Father, when are you going to send me back to the earth? When, Father, when?" I do not think so! That is the least of Jesus' concerns...His concerns are love and mercy just like they were when He was on earth! Love and Mercy...to attribute more then that to Him isn't seemly in MOP for it's by love and mercy we can all hope for eternal salvation, is it not?
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Post by fred on Dec 9, 2008 5:29:29 GMT -5
Sharon, could you please break your posts into smaller sections or paragraphs - as a block of text I find it hard to navigate through and often just skip over it.
Thanks in anticipation , fred
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Post by Sharon on Dec 9, 2008 11:25:16 GMT -5
"~~~ In the Gospel and epistle of Hebrews revealed to us Jesus/God Yahweh was the Creator of all things. (John 1:3,10) ALL things were made by Him (Word/Jesus) and without him was not any thing made that was made."
"By Him"...that denotes to me that He was that "light" by which God was able to move and create as He desired. Without that "light" God cannot move and create! That's saying Jesus was "that light"....and thus God's Son is that light...JN !...means a lot to me for it explains the separateness of the creation from the beginning!
And yes, Fred, I'll try to not talk so fast with my finger and forget to paragraph things! I get to typing as fast or faster then my thoughts! HAH!
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Post by Sharon on Dec 9, 2008 11:45:04 GMT -5
"~~~ The point is.... Jesus was God/Yahweh God the Almighty (NOT the Father but the Son) in the Old Testament. Yahweh God/Jesus in New Testament appeared in human form talking to Abraham in Gen. chapter 18,19. "
NathanB, are you telling me that you do NOT believe that God came down and spoke with faithful ones in the days of the OT?
It was God who said that Moses wouldn't see anything but His backside! At that time there'd not be any real discourse with God before that event. Moses was the friend of God and God revealed to Moses all that God thought Moses could withstand! And it was the YHWH that was the very "personal" name that God gave to Moses at that time as Moses' personal friend's name who was in actuality God!
Before that time, life was even more simplistic in the days of Abraham..it even says that in the days of Noah that sons of God were marrying daughters of the sons of man. Now it's my understanding that the sons of God were some of the angels from heaven, so there was very free travel in human form between heaven and earth then.
So I think as far as Abraham's vision of those three men that day, was Abraham accepting that the sons of God could travel the earth as well as heaven...we read of others in the OT who were approached by the angels from heaven also....but I'm not sure that Abraham ever understood that it was God in one of those men forms...I don't think he'd conversed so openly as he did...
But my point is it says it was "God" and to me it was "God" not the son...I still firmly believe that God did not allow His son to come to the earth at any given time UNTIL God saw that the time was right in God's eyes...that is the Father! And then Jesus came in the form of an unborn babe! To me that represents that outside of being the "light BY which God created ALL things" Jesus did not enjoy any other form because God's timing is not man's timing! God's Son developed just as any other mammals offspring would develop! He was forever young, forever new! JMOP from what I literally read!
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Post by C.I.T. on Dec 10, 2008 19:35:57 GMT -5
The Holy Ghost moved upon people even before Jesus was born.... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Corinthians 3:17 Jesus was "glorified" with His Father, the only living God before the world became a fact. He prayed that He could enjoy that "glory" again with His Father.... Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:5-8 the Lamb shall be on the right hand of God and that He is the glory of God! I'm not saying that you're wrong about Jesus being a God the Son...but there has to be a better explanation to that theory because otherwise it is too confusing and to contradictory to the thought that Jesus and God are two different entities though Jesus buried His mind and will in the garden of Gethsemane so that God's mind and will was His! Otherwise Jesus would never have been able to understand our temptations, our sorrows, our weaknesses and without that understanding His love would have never been full enough to allow Him to go all the way to Calvary's cross....that's what mercy and love is all about, the empathy, the total understanding as if one was in the midst of the trial themself...is it not? And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1Timothy 3:16 Jesus did not have an active part in the OT, His part was pure prophecy and faith and understanding from those who lived in that time. That's why Jesus explained all that OT scripture and prophecy to those whom He walked with after His resurrection. A prophecy is something that is to come, not something that is. Isn't it? Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. 1Peter 1:8-11
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Post by Sharon on Dec 10, 2008 21:51:49 GMT -5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:5-8 ] quote To me that is God, the great Creator of Heaven and Earth! Thank you! And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1Timothy 3:16 ] quote Yes, that is Jesus! Thank you! Jesus did not have an active part in the OT, His part was pure prophecy and faith and understanding from those who lived in that time. That's why Jesus explained all that OT scripture and prophecy to those whom He walked with after His resurrection. A prophecy is something that is to come, not something that is. Isn't it? Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. 1Peter 1:8-11[/quote] Precisely, what I was trying to say...it was "by" faith that OT faithful ones loved, saw him not, believed, and rejoiced with joy unspeakable and full of the glory of the plan of salvation. Jesus was prophesy in the OT, some of faith is something not seen, but something well hoped for and believed in! Thank you very much!
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Post by pianoman on Dec 17, 2008 15:46:47 GMT -5
Debate over this appears to me to be utter nonsense. It seems more of a battle of verb-age. We that have the ability to read have read that Jesus was with God in the beginning and was there during the creation. We know that there is God, the son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, don't we.
I guess I am just not cut out for the debate team.
I vigorously apologize if I offend anyone, with my comments
I wish Peace to all, Pianoman
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hondo
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Post by hondo on Jan 11, 2009 21:59:00 GMT -5
Is Ray Hoffman now an Overseer here in Texas ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 1:39:59 GMT -5
Why do we have workers flown oversees for conventions even though there would be sufficient workers in these countries all ready ? Why not use that money for the poor Christians over the world ? And no I am not a Judas ,it would not benefit me financially but would make my heart glad to know that it is spent more profitable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 1:42:23 GMT -5
Why is conventions and special meeting preparations more important for some workers then helping a bother or sister in need ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 1:57:34 GMT -5
I realize workers have offered a lot up but instead of thinking of what they have offered up they should think of the blessings that came with offering up.
- They don't have to deal with all the demands and stresses of a job. - No financial worries. - They don't have to deal with babies,toddlers, preschoolers,school aged kids,teenagers,young adult children..... - They have undivided time to read and pray without a child nagging for attention( don't get me wrong I love my children but lets face it children aren't made for sissies!) -They have a lot of time for themselves. -They don't have to do house work or cooking. And some workers probably feel there hands will fall of if they had to help around the house (not all just some). -They don't go threw the emotional trauma of loosing a husband/wife or child. -They don't have to rub shoulders with the outside world.
I could still go on and on ,so instead of counting the cost why don't they count there blessings.
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