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Post by alia on Oct 20, 2008 11:15:25 GMT -5
At the moment, I am reading a book called Stolen innocence written by a former member of the FLDS sect. It has made me wonder if the workers and friends are being made aware of available resources for dealing with abuse such as the wings for truth site??? I have a relative who is a worker. Should I tell her about this site or do all of the workers already know about it?
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 20, 2008 14:14:36 GMT -5
Hi alia, I have a relative who is a worker. Should I tell her about this site or do all of the workers already know about it?Certainly you could let her know about the site. Not all workers are aware of it, but many are. There is another site that is run by a professing couple also. It also contains information, and may be of more interest to her. I would suggest offering her both sites. Obviously the two sites have different information available, but on the other site, she would quite possibly be more apt to contact the administrator for further information. The professing site owner also has a block of an on line course dealing with CSA which your cousin may wish to take advantage of. I highly recommend this. Thanks for the question! Here is the link to Wings: wingsfortruth.info/Here is the link to the information from the professing person: acts617.proboards67.com/And here is a link to a message board run by another professing guy she may like to join: www.fellowshipping.proboards.com/It has a section where you can get access to discussing CSA issues also. Scott
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Post by juliette on Oct 20, 2008 14:17:56 GMT -5
I would bet that there are many who don't know about it. I know several sister workers who have found WINGS to be very helpful. In speaking with workers (including a "head worker") about CSA issues, they have admitted that this is an area where they have not been educated or informed, and that there is definitely room for improvement. I would suggest that you tell your relative about WINGS and ask her to spread the word among her colleagues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 15:18:32 GMT -5
There are probably three categories of workers relating to WINGS:
1.Those who don't know about WINGS. 2.Those who do know and feel it is primarily an anti-2x2 organ. 3.Those who do know and feel is is doing a good work.
I don't know the proportions, but obviously #1 will be in decline as time goes on.
I would suggest that the sentiments against the web site are predominant at this time. That won't change until there is significant representation of friends or workers on the oversight committee. Even then, there will still be sentiments against it.
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Post by alia on Oct 27, 2008 19:19:51 GMT -5
It's too bad that there are "sentiments against it".
Information and education are not something to resent in this regard, because children are just too precious.
Society, in general, has had to take it's head out of the sand and now we all have to have it front and center on the radar both with re. to protecting our own children and also with re. to protecting ourselves from having something entirely innocent be misconstrued as inappropriate.
I mention the latter specifically because I do feel bad for all of the good workers who will think twice and hold back from giving and receiving healthy/innocent affection towards children. This is true for teachers/ coaches etc. and anyone who interacts with kids, but I think of the workers and how they aren't able to have their own kids and it seems really sad. I'm sure that living with the families promotes a level of closeness that I can't really comprehend and I don't know how you are going to figure out how to establish boundaries that will be safe , yet fulfilling for everyone involved.
Ultimately, though, children have to be protected and I hope that with that ultimate goal, the jockeying for position as "the" website etc for dealing with this will not overshadow the purpose behind them. Best of luck from a concerned and outside observer.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 27, 2008 21:41:02 GMT -5
alia, Ultimately, though, children have to be protected and I hope that with that ultimate goal, the jockeying for position as "the" website etc for dealing with this will not overshadow the purpose behind them.
I can guarantee you that the WINGS website has no interest in 'jockeying for position'. Our goal is to help. We will be more than happy to link to any websites that have the goal of dealing with CSA in the truth fellowship, as long as those other sites don't mind us doing so. We also will not feel that those websites have to post a link back to WINGS. Scott
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Post by alia on Oct 28, 2008 9:00:09 GMT -5
At the moment, I am reading a book called Stolen innocence written by a former member of the FLDS sect. It has made me wonder if the workers and friends are being made aware of available resources for dealing with abuse such as the wings for truth site??? I have a relative who is a worker. Should I tell her about this site or do all of the workers already know about it? In this book, the author describes how it was impossible to go outside the group for help because all "outsiders" (all people not in the FLDS) were viewed as lost/evil/unsaved etc. Furthermore, a complaint/investigation would shed bad light on the group to the outside world and they did not want any negative attention . In addition , there was the fear of eventually losing one's place in the group and thus the (perceived) only chance for eternal salvation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 9:53:10 GMT -5
Alia, group dynamics are a fascinating study aren't they?
We just saw Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled", now available on DVD. I found it amazing to see practically identical dynamics amongst the scientific academia community as you see amongst the FLDS, and as exists amongst 2x2s and many other groups.
None of Ben's findings surprised me at all, having seen the same kind of expulsions occurring elsewhere. The only thing really surprising is that science research is all about pursuing the unknown, challenging the current paradigms, testing hypotheses. Yet, the community seems closedminded when it comes to challenging current thinking, no different at all than other groups who don't encourage seeking the truth.
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Post by alia on Oct 28, 2008 12:01:50 GMT -5
As a believer in God and a Christian with a science background, I look forward to seeing that documentary.
However, I do not wish to compare/connect that to CSA within religious groups. You could get intellectual and do that , but I don't care to.... with all due respect of course, because I do enjoy your posts Clearday and any correspondence I have had with you has always been positive.
What I have been thinking is that when sexual abuse is tied in with one's faith ,(i.e. perpetrated or swept under the rug by a trusted spiritual leader) it becomes a VERY complicated matter. And I'm not sure that I or anyone who has not been in that situation can fully appreciate how complicated. And even more so if the victim feels that their salvation somehow hangs in the balance. Reading that book, as much as it upset me, helped me to gain insight into why these things are not always reported or handled as they should be.
I am meeting with some people tomorrow to discuss the book and it will be interesting to hear other people's impressions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 13:28:07 GMT -5
Alia, the parallel I am drawing here is how groups tend to close ranks when something about it is threatened, and then attempt to excise the threat. The FLDS may not be an ideal example for a parallel because it could be argued that CSA at some level is considered accepted practice (ie forcing a 14 year old girl to marry a 50 year old man) by the FLDS. In cases like that, I agree that there is no comparison to the career destruction that occurs with scientists who advance work on ID. Systemic CSA is a different matter altogether and extremely complex.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 4:50:06 GMT -5
Alia, the parallel I am drawing here is how groups tend to close ranks when something about it is threatened, and then attempt to excise the threat. So true, CD. Groups appear to me to be like families. Woe to the family member who does not help hide the skeletons in the closet. The more intimate the group, or family, usually the more this is true.
Recently two completely different people, totally unrelated to each other visited some of my family members (they were a related couple with whom I was once very close.) The two friends of mine mentioned visiting/seeing me to them. In both instances, the open hostility, even hatred as related by one, to and for me apparently shocked my friends. (One still attending meetings, one not.) I love those relations still, even though they obviously believe me to be "Satan's spawn."
Appearances are most important for some people, any religious aspects aside. There was one group, though, with which I was fully involved, even to offices of oversight. It was a joy to know it sought out anything that put it in a bad light so it could be made right. Amazingly, in the 10 years I was deeply involved with that group before my health completely failed, I did not know of anything which cast its members in a bad light. Perhaps it was the focus on knowing of any such possibility to set matters right.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if all families and groups actually sought out anything which cast them in a bad light and quickly made every effort to make things right for any aggrieved? From experience with the group I previously mentioned, I know it is possible!!!
dj
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2008 15:46:17 GMT -5
Quite right Dennis. The healthy group says, "let's fix it." The unhealthy group says "let's hide it."
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ddowdy
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Post by ddowdy on Nov 5, 2008 21:53:48 GMT -5
I don't know of anyone who has been more disgusted with the sex crimes of this cult's workers than myself. I have slammed them repeatedly for these abuses. I will say though, that very recently I have detected a new attitude among those cult members with whom I am familiar.
Instead of denial and lack of recognition their attitude is now one of contrition and a general desire to address the source of the problem whatever and wherever that may be within the group. I hope I am correct in this assessment. If I am then much of the credit should go to those who were courageous enough to bring these acts to the public's attention.
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moline
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Post by moline on Oct 7, 2010 2:44:05 GMT -5
Does any one know if the worker in question in Victoria Australia has been to court yet If not when is his case coming up
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Oct 7, 2010 9:01:15 GMT -5
Does any one know if the worker in question in Victoria Australia has been to court yet If not when is his case coming up I've wondered the same. I thought this was an open shut case. A lot of news blitz, that has faded into the night.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2010 9:12:55 GMT -5
Does any one know if the worker in question in Victoria Australia has been to court yet If not when is his case coming up I've wondered the same. I thought this was an open shut case. A lot of news blitz, that has faded into the night. The same question was asked on a different thread does anyone know if the Victorian[ Australia ] Worker involved has been to court and if not when is it set Geoff From what I heard, the court date has been moved to sometime in 2011. It seems that here has been some extenuating circumstances which has led to a broadening of the investigation. I heard that there are now 4 workers that have been implicated in regard to instances of CSA, so it looks as if that may have something to do with why the investigation has broadened. The authorities are still hoping that victims will come forward and file statements/reports which will help with the investigation. There are some who do not wish to file a report because they do not want their parents or the workers to find out that they were abused. A reminder...... There is no need for anyone that files a report to end up with their information made public. The authorities have made it clear that they will simply accept a statement without any need to appear in court. Again, here is the contact info if you have information which you wish to report to the authorities: Leigh LAMBERT Det.Sen.Constable 29449 Warragul CIU PH: 56 227153 FAX: 56 227155 leigh.lambert@police.vic.gov.au Scott
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