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Post by tank on Nov 19, 2009 18:24:34 GMT -5
just have a positive attitude and a heart that is willing to listen and then the spirit will guide you down the right path.
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Post by MsMarie on Nov 24, 2009 6:40:37 GMT -5
Really? I got short changed last week in the local bar/restaurant! And what about that bit that says 'forsake not the assembling of yourselves together'?
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Post by MsMarie on Nov 24, 2009 6:41:54 GMT -5
Sorry, that remark was addressed to 2fedup...
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Post by eyedeetentee on Nov 24, 2009 13:15:05 GMT -5
If you want to be around people that are honest,do not go to church. I have found more honestey in people down at the local bar.It was so refreshing to be around people that was not trying to be somebody they were not. That's no lie!
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Post by Jason Storebo on Nov 29, 2009 20:22:48 GMT -5
Even though I don't......well,.....um......you know, but if I.....did....I'd go to the meetings I was brought up going to.
I hope I've made myself perfectly clear.
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moline
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Post by moline on Dec 4, 2009 1:22:07 GMT -5
Hi We left 19 years ago . My gardparents proffesed in 1911 ' I personally knew Eddie Cooney and he is buried in my home town. When we left we imediately went to as many churches as we could find. My question was always one thing ''DO I HAVE TO BELONG TO THIS CHURCH TO BE SAVED''. Almost always the answer was 'certainly not, praise God wherever you are found' We now worship in a Penticostal Church, Maybe not for everyone but I love the focus on the scripture and the outreach to the youth of this world , who after all are our future There is alao a very clear , writen statement of Faith
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Post by Jason Storebo on Dec 6, 2009 3:19:16 GMT -5
It strikes me kind of funny the way you always here professing people telling how they found the truth after going from church to church and not finding something that satisfied. But I know that it can be just the reverse of that.
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Post by open mind on Dec 6, 2009 16:34:23 GMT -5
I think that is because of the 'one way' that is preached and ingrained onto their minds when they hear it...the exclusivity appeals to lots...
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pauper
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Post by pauper on Feb 16, 2010 17:18:29 GMT -5
I have found the NET Bible helpful. It is an online Bible that also stands for "New English Translation." It has been translated from the original manuscripts rather than being a translation of a translation, and it is translated by linguistic scholars of different religious backgrounds. The footnotes explain when varying translations are possible, and why a certain interpretation is preferred over the others. Although there are no striking differences from the King James version, much of the KJ language is obsolete today, so it is easy - and even convenient - for people to misinterpret scriptures. I feel that it is good to search the scriptures.
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pauper
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Post by pauper on Feb 16, 2010 19:30:38 GMT -5
GodIsLove,
I empathize with your search for a new church. It is very overwhelming! You could start by searching online to read about the beliefs of various denominations and churches near you. Some websites even have sample sermons and Bible studies. I'm not sure you will find the "perfect" church, though. There are some that sound so right at first, but there always seems to be a piece of the puzzle missing. From doing some research, I've learned that most changes in the apostolic church began in the 4th century AD when the Roman emperor Constantine declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire, without renouncing pagan worship. So, many pagan rituals, traditions and observances were incorporated into the Christian church, including the easter and christmas holidays. Since pagan deities were traditionally worshipped on Sunday, Christian worship was moved from Saturday (the original Sabbath) to Sunday. There are verses in Acts (e.g., 13:42-44) that describe the Gentiles and Jews together in the synagogues on the Sabbath. The Roman Catholic church believes it is the one true church because they claim to trace the lineage of popes back to Simon Peter, but there also obviously elements of paganism in Catholicism and some of the popes on record are considered "antipopes" who endorsed heretical doctrines. At some point, the church split and the Eastern Orthodox church formed, with only a few changes. Major changes didn't occur until the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, but protestantism continues to divide and evolve - even in terms of doctrine. The "House Church Movement" then began early in the 19th century (not with our church) in an attempt to return the church to its original form, and the movement continues to grow. Although the N.T. does mention the churches meeting in homes, it's not clear they did so for worship or if the Jewish and Gentile Christians met in the homes after worshipping in the synagogue, or on another day of the week, since Jews were strongly discouraged from associating with Gentiles and they needed an opportunity to encourage each other in Jesus's teachings. So, trying to decide the "right" way to worship is very confusing to me. Really, many churches simply focus on methodology, when Jesus emphasized doctrine. Jesus's gospel is the good news that God wants to translate us into His heavenly kingdom and He is giving us opportunity to repent (Matthew 4:17) for that purpose (Matthew 5:20).
I went to several different churches before I attended my first Gospel Meeting. I was at a deperate point in my life because I had listened to the self-centered philosophies of the world (which most people in the churches embraced) but didn't like what I'd become, and when I studied the Bible I saw that the popular beliefs in the churches didn't coincide with the scriptures. There's no doubt that Meeting was the answer to my prayers at the time because people in the church truly believed the Bible and many spoke freely about the scriptures whenever I had fellowship with them outside of meeting. That fellowship meeting has not changed, but I have since moved away and the "fellowship" meeting is much different. Anyway, I have come to understand that a church is just an assembly of people, so the beliefs of a particular church is a reflection of the composite individuals in the church. When there are conflicting beliefs, people can get offended, especially if there are people convinced that someone is referring to them, someone else in the church or to the church itself, in speaking on the scriptures.
I realize that I was depending on the church to make me "right" with God after I professed. As you said, a church cannot make us right and neither can people. I made a lot of changes in my life when I was searching for a church BEFORE I professed, but later realized that my spiritual growth had stagnated because I was convinced that I was on the right path and believed change would come automatically. Jesus said, "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and forceful people lay hold of it" (Matthew 11:12). I think he was saying that we must have a conscious desire and make a determined effort to lay hold of righteousness. Since I have learned these things and learned that some of my peers from the church I grew up in have made some very poor choices in life, I regret leaving that church. I really don't know that I could have made a difference, but now I wonder if only I'd been faithful where I was (just looking to Jesus as my teacher and example), maybe I could've been a help to another who was struggling. I agonize so much over that.
GodIsLove, I share your desire to have fellowship with others who can feed your hungry soul. But, I'm wondering, since you are looking to the right source, might you be a help to others in your fellowship meeting by teaching them the things God is teaching you through His word? Of course, if you speak the truth, there may those who are offended (many people were offended by Jesus's teachings when he walked the earth). There may be people who are convinced that you have a personal grievance against them, distort your words, spread lies about you, and falsely accuse you of things that never even entered your mind, and publish those things throughout the church. Yes, it can be very hurtful. But, on the other hand, there may be those in your meeting whose understanding may be opened by your words and your faith in the righteousness of God, and it could be to their salvation. Are you willing to take that chance? For even one?
I have also learned that we can learn from hearing the wrong things if we are not quick to believe everything we hear, but search the scriptures to find out if they are true. Whatever you decide to do, GodIsLove, I wish you the best.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 17, 2010 7:09:19 GMT -5
If you want to be around people that are honest,do not go to church. I have found more honestey in people down at the local bar.It was so refreshing to be around people that was not trying to be somebody they were not. That's no lie! Yesterday, I was thinking about the differences between christians and lay people or non christians. Why are they called lay people. The lay person often has good charactor and cares about their neighbors just as we are commanded too. The only diff is the gift of salvation/Christ. I think I dislike the way a lot of christians treat non chrisitans. People in the pub dont have anything to hide, a lot of christians have things to hide.
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 17, 2010 8:37:06 GMT -5
I think I dislike the way a lot of christians treat non chrisitans.Personally, I believe that those people that go to a church and treat other people poorly are simply what I would call 'go to church people'. I'm not real sure those people are truly Christians. I like how Jesus tells us the way to tell who his disciples are: John 13
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Scott
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Post by snow on Feb 17, 2010 10:58:50 GMT -5
Yesterday, I was thinking about the differences between christians and lay people or non christians. Why are they called lay people. The lay person often has good charactor and cares about their neighbors just as we are commanded too. The only diff is the gift of salvation/Christ. I think I dislike the way a lot of christians treat non chrisitans. People in the pub dont have anything to hide, a lot of christians have things to hide. Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I?
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 17, 2010 11:33:09 GMT -5
Yesterday, I was thinking about the differences between christians and lay people or non christians. Why are they called lay people. The lay person often has good charactor and cares about their neighbors just as we are commanded too. The only diff is the gift of salvation/Christ. I think I dislike the way a lot of christians treat non chrisitans. People in the pub dont have anything to hide, a lot of christians have things to hide. Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I? My point is that if you consider yourself a Christian, then you WILL show love and care toward others. That doesn't mean that agnostics and atheists and all others are 'bad'. In fact...... There are some who consider themselves to be atheist and agnostic that I actually think ARE Christians, but they may feel that they aren't because they do not belong to or attend any church. We have people here on the TMB that do not think they can be considered 'Christian', but they still talk about spiritual matters in regard to their lives. They say that they 'feel' something 'out there' that definitely helps guide them. Just some of my rambling..... Scott
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Post by snow on Feb 17, 2010 11:52:23 GMT -5
Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I? My point is that if you consider yourself a Christian, then you WILL show love and care toward others. That doesn't mean that agnostics and atheists and all others are 'bad'. In fact...... There are some who consider themselves to be atheist and agnostic that I actually think ARE Christians, but they may feel that they aren't because they do not belong to or attend any church. We have people here on the TMB that do not think they can be considered 'Christian', but they still talk about spiritual matters in regard to their lives. They say that they 'feel' something 'out there' that definitely helps guide them. Just some of my rambling..... Scott Well I don't know that I would agree that I am a christian and just don't know it. I do feel a guiding force and listen to that quite seriously. However, there is no way my beliefs are ones that christians will acknowledge as true, so where does that leave us. I am a spiritual person. But I don't believe in the Abrahamic version of god. What does that make me?
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 17, 2010 12:14:09 GMT -5
Well I don't know that I would agree that I am a christian and just don't know it. I do feel a guiding force and listen to that quite seriously. However, there is no way my beliefs are ones that christians will acknowledge as true, so where does that leave us. I am a spiritual person. But I don't believe in the Abrahamic version of god. What does that make me? Not saying you are a Christian. If you want to say you aren't, that's fine with me. If you feel a 'guiding force', what is the source of the force? Any ideas on that? What is your definition of 'spiritual'? I believe in the God that has been revealed to me through my personal relationship with Jesus. I am less concerned with what someone else's definition of God is. The Spirit that guides my life is the Holy Spirit. Scott
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Post by snow on Feb 17, 2010 17:13:32 GMT -5
Well I don't know that I would agree that I am a christian and just don't know it. I do feel a guiding force and listen to that quite seriously. However, there is no way my beliefs are ones that christians will acknowledge as true, so where does that leave us. I am a spiritual person. But I don't believe in the Abrahamic version of god. What does that make me? Not saying you are a Christian. If you want to say you aren't, that's fine with me. If you feel a 'guiding force', what is the source of the force? Any ideas on that? What is your definition of 'spiritual'? I believe in the God that has been revealed to me through my personal relationship with Jesus. I am less concerned with what someone else's definition of God is. The Spirit that guides my life is the Holy Spirit. Scott Spirituality for me is a direct connection with the source of all life. I don't see Jesus or the Holy spirit the way you do I imagine. If Jesus lived, he was what the Buddhists would have called a "master". He is not a god imo. What you call the Holy Spirit, I would call our Higher self, our true self, the one that is not of this physical world. It really doesn't matter imo what you think you are connecting with as long it is a source of love and light at the highest level. You call that god I believe?
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Post by juliette on Feb 25, 2010 20:57:11 GMT -5
Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I? My point is that if you consider yourself a Christian, then you WILL show love and care toward others. That doesn't mean that agnostics and atheists and all others are 'bad'. In fact...... There are some who consider themselves to be atheist and agnostic that I actually think ARE Christians, but they may feel that they aren't because they do not belong to or attend any church. We have people here on the TMB that do not think they can be considered 'Christian', but they still talk about spiritual matters in regard to their lives. They say that they 'feel' something 'out there' that definitely helps guide them. Just some of my rambling..... Scott This was interesting to me, as was Snow's response that he/she wasn't sure if he/she is a Christian. I think these religious words are all just code words or short hand for our perceptions of and our experience with God (or whatever you want to call the positive force in the universe). Some people find it easier to see it all in relation with their chosen religious tradition. I, personally, don't buy into the whole "Jesus as the sacrifice for our sins, confess Him and you will be saved" thing. But when I hear someone describe their faith in those terms, I think "there is a person who has found words and a thought paradigm to describe the feelings of forgiveness, redemption, wholeness and rebirth that they have found in their connection with God". I don't even know what the whole "salvation" thing even means anymore, but I am happy when people's religious experience brings them peace. The traditional Christian story seems to do that for a lot of people. I guess I think a lot like Scott, but without the Christian language. I think that anyone who follows the law of love, is being guided by the goodness of God. We like to put labels on things, but I think that God looks on all those who live under the law of love and peace and is happy and proud.
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Post by snow on Feb 25, 2010 21:47:25 GMT -5
While I agree with you it all seems about labels etc. when it really should be about love and peace we find in our beliefs, I really don't think anyone would ever give me the label of Christian. In fact since I have come on the board, Rob has labelled me panentheist and Jason has me pegged as a pantheist. Neither are quite right. I have a very mixed bag of beliefs and when I read what they each believe I don't find that they quite resonate for me either. So I don't label what I feel, I just enjoy my connection with a higher power and that connection brings me peace and joy and I feel loved and accepted. That's enough for me.
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 25, 2010 21:57:41 GMT -5
I guess I think a lot like Scott, but without the Christian language. I think that anyone who follows the law of love, is being guided by the goodness of God. We like to put labels on things, but I think that God looks on all those who live under the law of love and peace and is happy and proud. I hang out with a lot of people in my motorcycle club that are in AA. In AA, the 12 steps talk about: step 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.step 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. There are many who do not consider themselves to be Christians who are in AA, but they faithfully follow the step work as it is outlined. It is interesting to listen to what "God, as we understood him" means to some of them. IF they follow the steps, they are basically following the actions that a 'Christian' would in conducting their life. I accept that the God as I understand Him, can very likely be different than it is for others. AND..... I think that this is just our own personal relationship with (in my case) Jesus/God, and for others God as THEY understand Him. Scott
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Post by juliette on Feb 25, 2010 22:17:40 GMT -5
I love Snow and Scott! I really love people whose religious paradigms are a positive inspiration for their dealings with the world and people around them, not a constraining, restrictive force or a hammer with which to beat other people. Snow... I love this "So I don't label what I feel, I just enjoy my connection with a higher power and that connection brings me peace and joy and I feel loved and accepted. That's enough for me. "
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Post by snow on Feb 26, 2010 1:33:06 GMT -5
I love Snow and Scott! I really love people whose religious paradigms are a positive inspiration for their dealings with the world and people around them, not a constraining, restrictive force or a hammer with which to beat other people. Snow... I love this "So I don't label what I feel, I just enjoy my connection with a higher power and that connection brings me peace and joy and I feel loved and accepted. That's enough for me. " Thanks Juliette, I was labelled for many years so now I just like to keep it simple. Others do try to put labels on me, but I don't need to do that to myself. It's all good!
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 26, 2010 23:24:55 GMT -5
Yesterday, I was thinking about the differences between christians and lay people or non christians. Why are they called lay people. The lay person often has good charactor and cares about their neighbors just as we are commanded too. The only diff is the gift of salvation/Christ. I think I dislike the way a lot of christians treat non chrisitans. People in the pub dont have anything to hide, a lot of christians have things to hide. Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I? Thats my point snow.
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Post by snow on Feb 27, 2010 0:23:46 GMT -5
Well I am a non christian, but I'm not that bad, am I? Thats my point snow. Sorry Shushy, I know. I was being silly.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Mar 9, 2010 23:00:04 GMT -5
Sorry Shushy, I know. I was being silly. Oh... Well, I would call you an individual who is unique just like the rest of us.
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moline
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Post by moline on Apr 27, 2010 23:23:17 GMT -5
Gods Church are his people found all over the world in many denominations and churches. When we left we spent a year going to all the churches in our district. My standard question was '' Do I have to belong to this church to be saved'' The answer was almost always ''No, praise God wherever you find him'' We now have been going to a local church for 10 years I had been profesing for 50 years had church in my home and was an Elder there we are very happy that we moved God bless you ''
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Post by elizabeth on May 24, 2010 23:22:54 GMT -5
Hi, I'm finding it hard to fine a new church because I don't really know what it means to be church. Some folks want to just sit and listen to the sermons , others like the fellowship and yet others want to discuss what it all means. It has been a challenge for me to understand that there are many different ways to be church. One of the things that I have found important to me is outreach in the name of Christ. Not just words , but actions.I found that lacking in the meetings. And when I ask(beg ) for help in having someone visit my Mom it's almost impossible. Workers are at "preps" and the folks she went to meetings with aren't available. so, what do I do?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on May 25, 2010 4:44:10 GMT -5
Elizabeth I just had another thought. If you attend say a baptist church in your area maybe you could go to the baptist pastor in your Mums area and ask if somone would be kind enoughto pop in on your Mum, {Im sure they would}then tell the workers your intention and they might come up to speed.
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