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Post by hope on Sept 26, 2009 0:53:57 GMT -5
Potted People... and our tender Gardener. I have five potted plants in my apartment, each is a different species of plant and each is ever green but looks entirely different from the others. I love these plants as they bring some life into my city residence and I try my best to keep them alive.
One of the beautiful things about creation is that its very diverse. Some of these plants needed water every day, they start to droop to remind me if I forget. Some of these plants droop in complaint, if I over water them. Some plants protest if they are not in the sunlight soaking in the rays, other wilt unless they are in a shady area.
Through sensitive trial and error I am gradually working out each plants "personality, likes and dislikes".
One of my plants has drooped - beyond repair. I have tried more water.. I have tried less water, I have tried sunlight, I have tried shade, I have even tried praying on it - yes I know crazy Christian - but if Jesus can make a fig tree wilt He can also restore my little yellow flowered love. However nothing has worked. It died.
The Lord spoke to me as I pondered it. All creation is diverse, and as such humans are also diverse. Sure we are all Homo Sapians, and we have some shared experiences, but when it comes down to it, we have different needs, likes and wants. Spiritually too.. what will speak to one person will not speak to another, one form of worship will stir my soul, but you prefer a different style of worship. God speaks to me in a way that shows me He sees me, for you His “love notes” may be different because He knows how to garden you, and what will tap into your heart and hit your core in a way specific to you and your experience. Jesus is the only way, but He also said ‘every tribe and tongue” would be in that great crowd worshipping the Father, coming from all walks of life, God needs to meet us in different ways.
He tenderly cares of each of us, each person is different and He loves that diversity and is big enough to handle and enjoy it all. He loves it, and calls to us to love it too… To do so we need to be rooted deeply enough in our faith and our relationship with God that we cannot be shaken or threatened when God meets someone else in a different way (than He meets us). This can only come through relationship because love is real, and it births security where we know what we have with Him is real, significant and special regardless of what else He is doing in others lives. He has enough love for all of us. He sees me, He sees you. We are different but that is ok – in fact that is beautiful.
I would never choose to have 5 of the same plant in my apartment, I love that they all look different and have different qualities, I don’t mind getting to know their needs and tending to them individually, its worth it.
So Lord put Your love in our hearts, deliver us from this orphan mentality that believes that there is not enough love to go around, we are your children and your love and grace are more than enough - You see us, and Jesus you always had time for the individual, set me and us free from a self-righteous spirit that doesn't welcome diversity within the Christian faith Lord, help us to embrace each other in our differences and to worship you with one heart and voice.. In Jesus name, Amen
“May they all be as one” - Jesus’ prayer - John 17
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Sept 26, 2009 4:45:01 GMT -5
Amen. Just beautiful hope. Thank you.
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Post by selah on Sept 26, 2009 9:08:32 GMT -5
Hope...I've mentioned it before and I will again...you are an excellent writer! What a beautiful, inspiring and edifying devotional message. Thank you! Just helped me start my day the right way! ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) Blessings, Linda P.S. AND, now I want to have plants in my house again. I've tried before, but I've never looked after them properly, and they all die. You have motivated me to try again after 20 years of a home without green. I'd like to start with just one little plant to care for. What kind would you recommend for a brown thumb?
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Post by sharon on Sept 26, 2009 10:00:16 GMT -5
I'm not Hope, but Linda try a Peace Lily...they don't need a lot of daylight, don't like sunlight for it'll turn the leaves yellow and IF you let it wilt down and as long as you water it at the first drooping...you'll actually cause it to bloom more...course and it needs to be root bound as well....if it has too much soil around its' roots it likes to grow more leaves! Cheers.
And yes, Hope, quite an analogy and appropriate for learning the working of the loving and merciful Christ. Thank you!
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Post by valerie on Sept 26, 2009 11:13:40 GMT -5
Potted People... and our tender Gardener. I have five potted plants in my apartment, each is a different species of plant and each is ever green but looks entirely different from the others. I love these plants as they bring some life into my city residence and I try my best to keep them alive. One of the beautiful things about creation is that its very diverse. Some of these plants needed water every day, they start to droop to remind me if I forget. Some of these plants droop in complaint, if I over water them. Some plants protest if they are not in the sunlight soaking in the rays, other wilt unless they are in a shady area. Through sensitive trial and error I am gradually working out each plants "personality, likes and dislikes". One of my plants has drooped - beyond repair. I have tried more water.. I have tried less water, I have tried sunlight, I have tried shade, I have even tried praying on it - yes I know crazy Christian - but if Jesus can make a fig tree wilt He can also restore my little yellow flowered love. However nothing has worked. It died. The Lord spoke to me as I pondered it. All creation is diverse, and as such humans are also diverse. Sure we are all Homo Sapians, and we have some shared experiences, but when it comes down to it, we have different needs, likes and wants. Spiritually too.. what will speak to one person will not speak to another, one form of worship will stir my soul, but you prefer a different style of worship. God speaks to me in a way that shows me He sees me, for you His “love notes” may be different because He knows how to garden you, and what will tap into your heart and hit your core in a way specific to you and your experience. Jesus is the only way, but He also said ‘every tribe and tongue” would be in that great crowd worshipping the Father, coming from all walks of life, God needs to meet us in different ways. He tenderly cares of each of us, each person is different and He loves that diversity and is big enough to handle and enjoy it all. He loves it, and calls to us to love it too… To do so we need to be rooted deeply enough in our faith and our relationship with God that we cannot be shaken or threatened when God meets someone else in a different way (than He meets us). This can only come through relationship because love is real, and it births security where we know what we have with Him is real, significant and special regardless of what else He is doing in others lives. He has enough love for all of us. He sees me, He sees you. We are different but that is ok – in fact that is beautiful. I would never choose to have 5 of the same plant in my apartment, I love that they all look different and have different qualities, I don’t mind getting to know their needs and tending to them individually, its worth it. So Lord put Your love in our hearts, deliver us from this orphan mentality that believes that there is not enough love to go around, we are your children and your love and grace are more than enough - You see us, and Jesus you always had time for the individual, set me and us free from a self-righteous spirit that doesn't welcome diversity within the Christian faith Lord, help us to embrace each other in our differences and to worship you with one heart and voice.. In Jesus name, Amen “May they all be as one” - Jesus’ prayer - John 17 BEAUTIFUL post, hope. Thank-you. val.
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Post by selah on Sept 26, 2009 12:18:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion Sharon.. I couldn't wait....went and bought a small geranium. This is not an actual image of MY plant, but it's the very same. So pretty....still getting to know her a bit, before I name her. Blessings, Linda
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Post by Annan on Sept 26, 2009 13:33:03 GMT -5
Now I have to tell you the story of Plantie. (Yes, my plants have names. Perhaps not very original ones. ) Plantie was growing in my husband's chiropractor's office. I mentioned to the chiropractor that if he ever didn't want Plantie that I would be more than happy to take him off his hands. He immediately said, "Take it." When Plantie came home with me, he soon started dropping leaves by the bushel. I put a quartz crystal point in the soil to channel energy for Plantie, but he continued to do poorly. I read all I could about how to water Plantie and what kind of sunlight he needed. Nothing worked. One day I decided to channel healing for Plantie and played mantras for him overnight and during the day for several days. I also sat down with him and connected to his plant diva in order to find out exactly what it was he needed. The diva told me Plantie felt abandoned and missed his friends at the office and that the crystal I had placed in the soil was pointed the wrong way and was his draining energy. Diva also told me to listen to Plantie and he will tell me when he needs watered and when he simply needs misted. (Which he does right now. I'm coming, Plantie!) Plantie is now doing very well and has had a lot of new growth since I "tuned in" to him. We are very happy together. He also has three new friends.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 26, 2009 20:44:54 GMT -5
P.S. AND, now I want to have plants in my house again. I've tried before, but I've never looked after them properly, and they all die. You have motivated me to try again after 20 years of a home without green. I'd like to start with just one little plant to care for. What kind would you recommend for a brown thmb? I recommend plastic. It stays a vibrant green as long as you keep it dusted.... and flowers all year long!!! Scott
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Post by sofastarch on Sept 26, 2009 21:33:11 GMT -5
I'd like to start with just one little plant to care for. What kind would you recommend for a brown thumb? I've almost killed off my spider plant rather consistently for about 15 years. If you don't water it, it really hangs in there and if you get tired of watering it, just gently uproot it and stick it in a bowl of water for a while (a couple of years). Jade plants have also been rather forgiving during weeks of neglect around here too. Happy planting. ;D
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Post by Annan on Sept 26, 2009 21:42:03 GMT -5
Jade plants have also been rather forgiving during weeks of neglect around here too. I have a tendancy to over water my jade plant making the bottom leaves fall off. I haven't been communicating very well with it for some reason.
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Post by selah on Sept 27, 2009 11:00:14 GMT -5
Since I'm a firm believer that dust is a protective covering, the vibrancy of even plastic plants is diminished at my house! ;D
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Post by kencoolidge on Sept 27, 2009 12:36:04 GMT -5
Hope I'll add my THANKS for an encouraging and uplifting post. Where have you been hiding. Keep posting God Bless ken
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Post by hope on Sept 27, 2009 19:47:55 GMT -5
Selah- I second the peace lily recommendation! I have one
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Post by velmasuereturns on Sept 28, 2009 9:42:55 GMT -5
Hope: Love your analogy of the plants and the caretaker! I can relate. Yes- God is "big enough" and more than able to meet the needs of diverse and many, many people-to give new life, to restore life, to heal, to uplift.......etc....... An area of concern in care-taking is that people tend to "play God"....What do I mean by that? Just that sometimes we don't have a healthysense/awareness of our limitations and/or maybe we don't have healthyboundaries... . perhaps we think we can meet too many needs of too many people..& we need to have a better understanding of where we get off the bus and leave the rest of the "driving" to God. Those bus drivers! They know where they're going and they'll get there......eventually..... One thing that has helped me acheive better/healthy boundaries with the people in my life is to look at them and try to treat them as I would a true friend & in a way that promotes good, lasting, HEALTHY friendship. We all know that not all friendships are healthy ones. This is probably something we've all experienced before. Example:You make friends with someone and you might have a lot in common. You"hit it off", but later on you find out that this friend, who has many redeeming qualities also has faults. is "needy" and might suck so much time and energy from you that an unhealthy BALANCE occurs. I could write so much more about true friendship, but one of my favorite slogans is: "Friends don't let friends drive drunk." The slogan can apply to way more than drunk driving................................................... In essence what I'm trying to express is that there is no "caretaker" like God. As humans, we forget that important fact- we somehow erroneously think that we need to step in and make it our job to meet more needs in a person perhaps than is really and truly for their benefit and maybe more for ourbenefit....ie...[it makes us feel good to do things that make others feel good]this is only understandable, but what comes to my mind in certain cases is --co-dependency. No human can totally and completely fulfill another human, IMO. (I guess they can try...) but IMO-that is an unrealistic & unhealthy expectation:.. that some other human is going to meet all my needs and in particular: meet my needs in areas in which I might feel insecure or unfulfilled or "threatened" or have low self worth. Somehow, someway we get the idea that it is "my job" and "my mission" to "fix" the insecurity and low self esteem of others. Well, that is some- thing that we can maybe help or encourage in or set a good example of.. We can be mentors, which might be the best way to help another person resolve self esteem issues: set an example; be a mentor. I love that Christ IS my mentor...even though there are humans that have mentored me ... It all seems to come back to Jesus as the ultimate mentor! Jesus did not offfer a quick/easy fix for low self worth or insecurity...so it causes me to wonder why it is we humans think we can "fix" the insecurity or low self esteem of another person. Insecurity and low self esteem can be cured: I believe that. But it is not an easy fix & it truly needs to come from within the person who suffers from such and from God,the Creator and the ultimate Caretaker. Amen & Peace. velmasue2
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Post by valerie on Sept 28, 2009 10:47:35 GMT -5
Hope: Love your analogy of the plants and the caretaker! I can relate. Yes-God is "big enough" and more than able to meet the needs of diverse and many, many people-to give new life, to restore life, to heal, to uplift.......etc....... An area of concern in care-taking is that people tend to "play God"....What do I mean by that? Just that sometimes we don't have a healthysense/awareness of our limitations and/or maybe we don't have healthyboundaries... . perhaps we think we can meet too many needs of too many people..& we need to have a better understanding of where we get off the bus and leave the rest of the "driving" to God. One thing that has helped me acheive better/healthy boundaries with the people in my life is to look at them and try to treat them as I would a true friend & in a way that promotes good, lasting, HEALTHY friendship. We all know that not all friendships are healthy ones. This is probably something we've all experienced before. Example:You make friends with someone and you might have a lot in common. You"hit it off", but later on you find out that this friend, who has many redeeming qualities also has faults. is "needy" and might suck so much time and energy from you that an unhealthy BALANCE occurs. I could write so much more about true friendship, but one of my favorite slogans is: "Friends don't let friends drive drunk." The slogan can apply to way more than drunk driving................................................... In essence what I'm trying to express is that there is no "caretaker" like God. As humans, we forget that important fact- we somehow erroneously think that we need to step in and make it our job to meet more needs in a person perhaps than is really and truly for their benefit and maybe more for ourbenefit....ie...[it makes us feel good to do things that make others feel good]this is only understandable, but what comes to my mind in certain cases is --co-dependency. No human can totally and completely fulfill another human, IMO. (I guess they can try...) but IMO-that is an unrealistic & unhealthy expectation:.. that some other human is going to meet all my needs and in particular: meet my needs in areas in which I might feel insecure or unfulfilled or "threatened" or have low self worth. Somehow, someway we get the idea that it is "my job" and "my mission" to "fix" the insecurity and low self esteem of others. Well, that is some- thing that we can maybe help or encourage in or set a good example of.. We can be mentors, which might be the best way to help another person resolve self esteem issues: set an example; be a mentor. I love that Christ IS my mentor...even though there are humans that have mentored me ... It all seems to come back to Jesus as the ultimate mentor! Jesus did not offfer a quick/easy fix for low self worth or insecurity...so it causes me to wonder why it is I or we as humans think we can "fix" the insecurity or low self esteem of another person. Insecurity and low self esteem can be cured: I believe that. But it is not an easy fix & it truly needs to come from within the person who suffers from such and from God,the Creator and the ultimate Caretaker. Amen & Peace. velmasue2 Velma-I've enjoyed your writing and thanks for posting, but PLEASE clarify something: Are you suggesting that people shouldn't be caretakers of other people (as much as they are able) ? For that seems to be a contradiction of what Christ laid out for us and one of the two greatest commandments: To love one another as He has loved us...which means we would not only care for other people, but be willing to got to bat for them and even lay down our lives for our friends. If this is the case, then you are stating that what Christ preached is "co-dependency" and I have a difficult time swallowing that! Our Saviour, Jesus, as the ultimate example, mentor, teacher, friend COMMANDED us to love one another as He has loved us and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Somehow, this doesn't jive with your "concern" about caring too much, "playing God", and unhealthy boundaries...In reality, the sad fact is that many people in the world today don't care ENOUGH! I believe I've seen lack of care more than too much care. val.
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Post by velmasuereturns on Sept 28, 2009 11:05:33 GMT -5
Valerie: You are correct in asking for clarification. I can understand how what I've written could be misconstrued to indicate that we should all just fend for ourselves and whatever happens happens-type attitude.... [ Low self-esteem? Too bad so sad. Insecure? Oh well.] BUT NO-that is not what I meant at all...What I meant is that being in a position of caring for others can bring about deceit. We can deceive ourselves or we can be deceived into thinking that what we are doing to "help" others is good & right & pure & godly & within God's Will. The fact is- that yes, it is possible to care too much (let me explain).........so much so that we step into God's territory and sort of "take over" in areas that we cannot truly "fix" [for reals]....we might give a temporary "fix" of feel-good things....but to permanently and truly fix the low self esteem & insecurity & lack of life in another person, we need to let go and let God at some point in the process. Letting go is difficult sometimes. It can go against our nature....afterall........if we truly care about someone, it's hard to let go. But it is ultimately a selfish motive on our part to go around making others feel good because it makes us feel good about ourselves and what we are doing...........and we are so adept at rationalizing and justifying it all by proclaiming: "It's what Christ commanded." Contrarily- it's quite possible that the more we honestly CARE about someone, the more we will be willing and able to let go where letting go is BETTER for that person in certain areas of their life. It doesn't mean we cut them off, alienate them, or abandon them...it simply means learning and knowing that there are areas that are better left alone (by us) and tended to by GOD & the individual. I hope that clarifies it some. Well, the more I get to know Jesus the more I understand that He didn't just go around making people feel good and well cared for. In fact, He often rebuked, corrected, admonished those He loved and cared for. Martha is a perfect example here: He got after her for doing too much in the kitchen and not spending enough time at His feet. Do you think that was a "feel-good" moment for Martha? hah! In essence, Jesus was saying: "Yo, Martha, give me the keys and let me be the driver.( It's not that you're drunk, but) you are definitely way too encumbered about with many things. Come-sit at my feet, spend some quality one on one time with me for I desire to spend the same kind of time with you, dear sister. So just hand over the keys; because you are in no condition right now to be driving." velmasue2
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Post by valerie on Sept 28, 2009 12:34:56 GMT -5
Valerie: You are correct in asking for clarification. I can understand how what I've written could be misconstrued to indicate that we should all just fend for ourselves and whatever happens happens-type attitude.... [ Low self-esteem? Too bad so sad. Insecure? Oh well.] BUT NO-that is not what I meant at all...What I meant is that being in a position of caring for others can bring about deceit. We can deceive ourselves or we can be deceived into thinking that what we are doing to "help" others is good & right & pure & godly & within God's Will. The fact is- that yes, it is possible to care too much (let me explain).........so much so that we step into God's territory and sort of "take over" in areas that we cannot truly "fix" [for reals]....we might give a temporary "fix" of feel-good things....but to permanently and truly fix the low self esteem & insecurity & lack of life in another person, we need to let go and let God at some point in the process. Letting go is difficult sometimes. It can go against our nature....afterall........if we truly care about someone, it's hard to let go. But it is ultimately a selfish motive on our part to go around making others feel good because it makes us feel good about ourselves and what we are doing...........and we are so adept at rationalizing and justifying it all by proclaiming: "It's what Christ commanded." Contrarily- it's quite possible that the more we honestly CARE about someone, the more we will be willing and able to let go where letting go is BETTER for that person in certain areas of their life. It doesn't mean we cut them off, alienate them, or abandon them...it simply means learning and knowing that there are areas that are better left alone (by us) and tended to by GOD & the individual. I hope that clarifies it some. Well, the more I get to know Jesus the more I understand that He didn't just go around making people feel good and well cared for. In fact, He often rebuked, corrected, admonished those He loved and cared for. Martha is a perfect example here: He got after her for doing too much in the kitchen and not spending enough time at His feet. Do you think that was a "feel-good" moment for Martha? hah! In essence, Jesus was saying: "Yo, Martha, give me the keys and let me be the driver.( It's not that you're drunk, but) you are definitely way too encumbered about with many things. Come-sit at my feet, spend some quality one on one time with me for I desire to spend the same kind of time with you, dear sister. So just hand over the keys; because you are in no condition right now to be driving." velmasue2 Thanks for attempting further clarification, but .... well: maybe it would help if I just gave you a little background on where I am coming from. I am a very caring person. I cannot deny that or seem to rid myself from caring. Not just a little: but a LOT. I care so much sometimes it hurts. I care so much at times I cannot let go. I care so much at times I am moved with compassion. I care so much that I won't just abandon that which needs caring for and stop caring for it. There have been times that I wished I did NOT care so much: for my heart aches with caring in given situations. I want to intervene. I am moved to save, to improve, to help, to assist; to: CARE. It's me and who I am and I come from along line of caring. I ENJOYING RESCUING AND SAVING DYING PLANTS, (for goodness sakes!)....and many times it has been totally worth every effort I have put into it. I also love to rescue animals and yes: I have a weakness for rescuing people. Jesus HimSELF was a rescuer and THE Saviour of dying people, don't you think? Wasn't it Jesus to healed the sick, cleansed the sinner, revived the dead, and restored the broken spirit? So: you tell me, Velma. Is my compulsion to "rescue" because I just get at feel-good kick back from it or because I simply and truly CARE?!?! VAL.
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Post by velmasuereturns on Sept 28, 2009 13:26:50 GMT -5
Valerie: Thanks for attempting further clarification, but .... well: maybe it would help if I just gave you a little background on where I am coming from. I am a very caring person. I cannot deny that or seem to rid myself from caring. Not just a little: but a LOT. I care so much sometimes it hurts. I care so much at times I cannot let go. I care so much at times I am moved with compassion. I care so much that I won't just abandon that which needs caring for and stop caring for it. There have been times that I wished I did NOT care so much: for my heart aches with caring in given situations. I want to intervene. I am moved to save, to improve, to help, to assist; to: CARE. It's me and who I am and I come from along line of caring. I ENJOYING RESCUING AND SAVING DYING PLANTS, (for goodness sakes!)....and many times it has been totally worth every effort I have put into it. I also love to rescue animals and yes: I have a weakness for rescuing people. Jesus HimSELF was a rescuer and THE Saviour of dying people, don't you think? Wasn't it Jesus to healed the sick, cleansed the sinner, revived the dead, and restored the broken spirit? So: you tell me, Velma. Is my compulsion to "rescue" because I just get at feel-good kick back from it or because I simply and truly CARE?!?! VAL. *sigh* ..........if Hope only knew what can of worms this would open............... OK: Valerie--I am not suggesting that you or anyone ELSE simply stop caring. Nor am I suggesting that you only care because it makes you feel good.... I don't know where you are getting that impression, but it's simply not true. I totally SUPPORT caring, care-giving, and I CARE too...in fact, believe it or not: I might care just as much as you do, my dear: I just go about it in a different way. Just as every plant is diverse and has diverse and varied needs; so does every care-giver have diverse methods of GIVING NEEDED CARE. Key phrase: Giving needed care. The distinction that I really wanted to make here is that God is the ultimate care-giver and that God's care will always be the BEST and most appropriate care....yeah...that's probably it in a nutshell. Yes, we are diverse. Yes, we all have various needs. No, there are no hard and fast "rules" with God about who get's what and what amount of caring is delivered. It's like supply and demand....or need and provision. God provides exactly what we need as we are open to RECEIVING WHAT WE REALLY AND TRULY NEED. Perhaps we don't WANT the kind of care we so desperately NEED.... I should add that I believe God often gives His care THROUGH people. Not that plants can be in denial and I don't want to stray from the plant/care-giver analogy....but....say if we are "plants" and God is the care-giver; I can certainly conceive that we are not always OPEN to receiving the kind of care He so desires to give & are in denial about what it is we truly need. Then too: We may THINK we know what other people need for care and we intervene, which can lead to just outright interference: I've learned this the hard way myself........that sometimes maybe we should step back or bow out and let go and let God do more of the care-giving. This is win/win-and prevents us from becoming enmeshed which is really just a nice word for BONDAGE. For when we try to solve everyone's issues we are really just burdening ourselves. There-does that clarify it better? For the record: I am all in favor of CARING! Velmasue2
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Post by valerie on Sept 28, 2009 22:54:38 GMT -5
Velma-thanks for further explaining. So, basically, you are saying that sometimes we need to stay out of other peoples' business? ... That we need to learn the boundaries of not concerning ourselves with things that are not our concern? Well, I can understand that viewpoint as well. True, sometimes we just need to but_ out and stay out of peoples' business. But when I care about someone or something, it's difficult for me to to just turn the bu_t out button on & just "but_ out"....no pun intended ... however, but_ing out is perhaps what is most needed at a given time. I understand that too. It may be for our own good to but_ out.
val.
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Post by hope on Sept 29, 2009 4:34:58 GMT -5
God is the ultimate caregiver of our souls.... but without the ability to appreciate diversity within the Kingdom and the Divine tension we end up trying to destroy what we see as "weeds"(those with a different theology/experience of God within the body of Christ)... they are not weeds, really just other plants that don't look like us or have our needs, instead different ones that our Gardener is meeting and teaching.
The divine tension is that there are often complimentary lessons to be learned in the bible that SEEM contradictory.. look at Proverbs 26 - vs 4-5 one verse says ..." answer a fool," the very next verse says " don't answer a fool". Two different lessons, we will learn them both in our walk at different times. Oten diversity comes from others learning different lessons to us and so we immediately assume they must be wrong.
While I do appreciate the input about looking after others- and really enjoyed what you both had to say actually, but caring or not caring for eachother is not really the point of the story (and yet what you both said highlights the point practically - you are both correct, both learning different lessons with the Lord- one to care, one to respect boundaries - hence the need to respect the diversity of opinions - which you did, beautifully sharing what each of you were learning.).
God is the gardner - and sometimes He will speak through the body of CHrist, but ultimately He take care of us. But He does call us to love each other and to care for each other in practical ways. Look forward to hearing more from you~
Peace~
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Post by valerie on Sept 29, 2009 10:01:26 GMT -5
God is the ultimate caregiver of our souls.... but without the ability to appreciate diversity within the Kingdom and the Divine tension we end up trying to destroy what we see as "weeds"(those with a different theology/experience of God within the body of Christ)... they are not weeds, really just other plants that don't look like us or have our needs, instead different ones that our Gardener is meeting and teaching. The divine tension is that there are often complimentary lessons to be learned in the bible that SEEM contradictory.. look at Proverbs 26 - vs 4-5 one verse says ..." answer a fool," the very next verse says " don't answer a fool". Two different lessons, we will learn them both in our walk at different times. Oten diversity comes from others learning different lessons to us and so we immediately assume they must be wrong. While I do appreciate the input about looking after others- and really enjoyed what you both had to say actually, but caring or not caring for eachother is not really the point of the story (and yet what you both said highlights the point practically - you are both correct, both learning different lessons with the Lord- one to care, one to respect boundaries - hence the need to respect the diversity of opinions - which you did, beautifully sharing what each of you were learning.). God is the gardner - and sometimes He will speak through the body of CHrist, but ultimately He take care of us. But He does call us to love each other and to care for each other in practical ways. Look forward to hearing more from you~ Peace~ Thanks for your feedback/input, Hope. Yes, I feel that Velma and I got carried away from the main point of your OP. Sorry about that. Velma has a way of running away with the ball............. val.
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Post by velmasuereturns on Sept 29, 2009 12:42:22 GMT -5
Thanks for your feedback/input, Hope. Yes, I feel that Velma and I got carried away from the main point of your OP. Sorry about that. Velma has a way of running away with the ball............. val. Now just hold on there a minute, val. You accuse me of running away with the ball.......which may seem to be the case......but if one were to dig a little deeper one would see that I felt moved to post to this thread beCAUSE of the OP which explores the various concepts of God the CareTaker/CareGiver and the diverse people He is capable of caring for & being able to meet diverse needs. But I felt behooved to point out the important fact that we, as humans should not be "playing God"... I'm not accusing anyone specifically of doing that....I am sharing what I've learned through trial and grievous error: there are some things that are better off without my interference and it is in the best interest of ALL if I remove myself or distance myself from certain things/groups/situations/people-this also holds true for others besides me, I am sure.... The fact that "God is big enough" to care diversely for everyone has never been a question in my mind. He DESIGNED us to be diverse even within ourselves; He created us intricately--The Master Designer:God. I am a creative person: but I must not lose sight of where my creativity comes from: It is a GIFT from God. I can also see that others are "gifted" in ways that I am not....and I DO appreciate the gifts that others have....by the same token: It hopefully points me in God's direction even more: as He created us; He is the Creator; ....But: we can fall into the trap of "worshiping" the creation instead of the Creator. The "Body of Christ" is a good example of the various gifts given to various people. My conscience tells me it's wrong to run interference between God and a person: Also: to not misuse any of the "gifts" or take them for granted as they are part of the Body. Not only are various people diverse : EACH INDIVIDUAL is diverse in and of themselves-and can have their needs met by more than one or just a few people-since we are all very diverse in and of ourselves, it stands to reason that we can get our needs met in various ways. Which is why I've never understood why it is some people think they can only have ALL their needs met by just one person....But WE as individuals sometimes need to do more on our part than we think to get our needs met. We might need to do more seeking, searching, knocking and asking than we thought...it's certainly worth every effort we make.....as God is a God that gives back 100 fold (at least). velmasue2
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Post by velmasuereturns on Sept 30, 2009 14:23:37 GMT -5
God is the ultimate caregiver of our souls.... but without the ability to appreciate diversity within the Kingdom and the Divine tension we end up trying to destroy what we see as "weeds"(those with a different theology/experience of God within the body of Christ)... they are not weeds, really just other plants that don't look like us or have our needs, instead different ones that our Gardener is meeting and teaching. The divine tension is that there are often complimentary lessons to be learned in the bible that SEEM contradictory.. look at Proverbs 26 - vs 4-5 one verse says ..." answer a fool," the very next verse says " don't answer a fool". Two different lessons, we will learn them both in our walk at different times. Oten diversity comes from others learning different lessons to us and so we immediately assume they must be wrong. While I do appreciate the input about looking after others- and really enjoyed what you both had to say actually, but caring or not caring for eachother is not really the point of the story (and yet what you both said highlights the point practically - you are both correct, both learning different lessons with the Lord- one to care, one to respect boundaries - hence the need to respect the diversity of opinions - which you did, beautifully sharing what each of you were learning.). God is the gardner - and sometimes He will speak through the body of CHrist, but ultimately He take care of us. But He does call us to love each other and to care for each other in practical ways. Look forward to hearing more from you~ Peace~ Thanks for your post, Hope. I agree. We are to love one another--and we are given various practical methods in which to do so... We all have different ways of giving/showing love and care..just like Our Father . I remember as a child, my father made me a jump rope when I was in first grade. I didn't ask him to. He just got the idea that I might like a jump rope and could take it to school and play jump rope with all my friends during recess; as jump roping was quite the "in" thing. Well, the jump ropes at school were "store bought" and pretty and nice and refined with colorful plastic handles, etc. I'll never forget one day-I stepped out onto the front porch and there he was with this big course, black rope that looked like it had been in storage in the barn or the garage or an old shed. It wasn't "pretty" and it wasn't technically a jump-rope. It was just an old rope that might have been used around the farm or in the woods. Its diameter was larger than the average jump rope. It was unrefined-to say the least...and the ends of it were rough and starting to unravel. So-I said: "What are you doing, Daddy?" He replied: "I'm making you a jump rope." I watched as his big rough & work-worn hands burned each end of the rope so that it melted together and wouldn't unravel....when he was done, he said-"There-here's your jump rope." I was thrilled! My very own jump rope, made by my father who saw that I might need one. I took that jump rope to school the very next day and was quite happy to show it to my friends and use it during recess. If I recall correctly-some of my classmates made a few comments and questioned whether or not it really was a real jump rope. Afterall, my new jump rope was big and black and rough looking and the rest of the jump ropes were small and white and had smoother surfaces. But the real test came at recess time when it was put to use--It was a great jump rope and worked just fine.... But what made it most special to me was that it was made by my Dad and given to me... Peace&Amen. velma
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Post by hope on Sept 30, 2009 21:52:42 GMT -5
thats a lovely story velma thanks for sharing
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Post by faune on Feb 23, 2011 19:31:46 GMT -5
Hope...I've mentioned it before and I will again...you are an excellent writer! What a beautiful, inspiring and edifying devotional message. Thank you! Just helped me start my day the right way! ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) Blessings, Linda P.S. AND, now I want to have plants in my house again. I've tried before, but I've never looked after them properly, and they all die. You have motivated me to try again after 20 years of a home without green. I'd like to start with just one little plant to care for. What kind would you recommend for a brown thumb? Linda, I agree with you reponse to Hope's post -- she is an excellent writer and always has an encouraging and thought provoking perspective to consider when she posts here. As for plants, I would also recommend the peace lily. They are hard to kill and I can speak from experience, as I could do in a cactus plant and have done just that! My doctor gives them to his patients after surgery and my lasted two years before our kitty destroyed it. I have a sister who talks to her plants, just like my mother used to do, and she seems to have the green thumb in the family. They bloom beautifully and make me envious, since I am miserable with plants. Like Scott, I prefer silk plants that won't die but give the appearance of being alive and beautiful. That works for me at present.
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Post by faune on Feb 23, 2011 20:19:41 GMT -5
Hope: Love your analogy of the plants and the caretaker! I can relate. Yes-God is "big enough" and more than able to meet the needs of diverse and many, many people-to give new life, to restore life, to heal, to uplift.......etc....... An area of concern in care-taking is that people tend to "play God"....What do I mean by that? Just that sometimes we don't have a healthysense/awareness of our limitations and/or maybe we don't have healthyboundaries... . perhaps we think we can meet too many needs of too many people..& we need to have a better understanding of where we get off the bus and leave the rest of the "driving" to God. One thing that has helped me acheive better/healthy boundaries with the people in my life is to look at them and try to treat them as I would a true friend & in a way that promotes good, lasting, HEALTHY friendship. We all know that not all friendships are healthy ones. This is probably something we've all experienced before. Example:You make friends with someone and you might have a lot in common. You"hit it off", but later on you find out that this friend, who has many redeeming qualities also has faults. is "needy" and might suck so much time and energy from you that an unhealthy BALANCE occurs. I could write so much more about true friendship, but one of my favorite slogans is: "Friends don't let friends drive drunk." The slogan can apply to way more than drunk driving................................................... In essence what I'm trying to express is that there is no "caretaker" like God. As humans, we forget that important fact- we somehow erroneously think that we need to step in and make it our job to meet more needs in a person perhaps than is really and truly for their benefit and maybe more for ourbenefit....ie...[it makes us feel good to do things that make others feel good]this is only understandable, but what comes to my mind in certain cases is --co-dependency. No human can totally and completely fulfill another human, IMO. (I guess they can try...) but IMO-that is an unrealistic & unhealthy expectation:.. that some other human is going to meet all my needs and in particular: meet my needs in areas in which I might feel insecure or unfulfilled or "threatened" or have low self worth. Somehow, someway we get the idea that it is "my job" and "my mission" to "fix" the insecurity and low self esteem of others. Well, that is some- thing that we can maybe help or encourage in or set a good example of.. We can be mentors, which might be the best way to help another person resolve self esteem issues: set an example; be a mentor. I love that Christ IS my mentor...even though there are humans that have mentored me ... It all seems to come back to Jesus as the ultimate mentor! Jesus did not offfer a quick/easy fix for low self worth or insecurity...so it causes me to wonder why it is I or we as humans think we can "fix" the insecurity or low self esteem of another person. Insecurity and low self esteem can be cured: I believe that. But it is not an easy fix & it truly needs to come from within the person who suffers from such and from God,the Creator and the ultimate Caretaker. Amen & Peace. velmasue2 Velma-I've enjoyed your writing and thanks for posting, but PLEASE clarify something: Are you suggesting that people shouldn't be caretakers of other people (as much as they are able) ? For that seems to be a contradiction of what Christ laid out for us and one of the two greatest commandments: To love one another as He has loved us...which means we would not only care for other people, but be willing to got to bat for them and even lay down our lives for our friends. If this is the case, then you are stating that what Christ preached is "co-dependency" and I have a difficult time swallowing that! Our Saviour, Jesus, as the ultimate example, mentor, teacher, friend COMMANDED us to love one another as He has loved us and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Somehow, this doesn't jive with your "concern" about caring too much, "playing God", and unhealthy boundaries...In reality, the sad fact is that many people in the world today don't care ENOUGH! I believe I've seen lack of care more than too much care. val. Valerie, I believe what Velma is saying here is that sometimes we must turn our concerns over to God in prayer to add the finishing touches. Our caretaking needs to keep within healthy boundaries when the people we are trying to help are overly needy and immature. We can mentor and encourage and provide physical help where needed, but we need to be careful about "over focusing" on other's problems and trying to solve them ourselves. We can hinder their spiritual growth and natural maturity if we don't keep within healthy boundaries of caregiving. Unhealthy caregiving is where codependency becomes a reality, as be become an enabler and a rescuer instead of setting limits on our involvement in others lives. Working as a facilitator in our church Safe Harbor Ministries, I saw a lot of problems created by over-involvement in friends and family's lives. The end result creates more resentment than good feelings and walls go up. However, using godly wisdom in our caring for others, we can meet a need without overstepping boundaries in another's life. I guess when we start to lose our own identity in our caregiving, we have crossed the line into codependency. Helping a person to stand on their own two feet without assistance is true mentoring. For sure, there is a thin line between codependency and caregiving, but God can help us discern the extent of our involvement and guide us accordingly.
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