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Post by ranger1 on Aug 18, 2009 16:15:27 GMT -5
As Christians do we need an organized "religion" or can we go it alone so to speak...living our lives according to the scriptures. If so, with whom would a person fellowship, or how would one partake of the emblems?
It seems that as kindred spirits separated from the 2x2 Church that there would exist the foundation for a Church that would be pleasing to God.
R-
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Post by lin on Aug 18, 2009 19:26:46 GMT -5
kindred spirits ?
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Post by ilylo on Aug 18, 2009 20:04:12 GMT -5
Yes, linbert, kindred spirits.
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Post by ranger1 on Aug 19, 2009 2:04:53 GMT -5
lin,
People of the same spirit...in the case of Christians the Holy Spirit is what we should recognize, and respond to, in each other.
FWIW my original post is a straight forward question looking for honest discourse.
R-
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Post by ranger on Aug 20, 2009 2:45:53 GMT -5
Uuummm....hello.
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Post by fred on Aug 20, 2009 4:36:24 GMT -5
I think lin is too busy to post here .................. you'll find him on professing kids and that's the truth, Facebook.
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Post by ronhall on Aug 20, 2009 17:30:28 GMT -5
As Christians do we need an organized "religion" or can we go it alone so to speak...living our lives according to the scriptures. If so, with whom would a person fellowship, or how would one partake of the emblems? It seems that as kindred spirits separated from the 2x2 Church that there would exist the foundation for a Church that would be pleasing to God. R- Can you name any in the Bible who went it alone, on their own? How about Jonah? John on the Isle of Patmos? Job had three friends, who did him little good. Daniel had three friends who were a help and inspiration to him. My impression is that for each of us there are times when will have no choice but to go it alone. Times of fellowship help prepare us for these lonely experiences. Death in itself will be a very lonely experience unless we have Jesus as our friend and intercessor. Of course this does not address the original question concerning starting a church pleasing to God. If one assumes the F&W fellowship pleasing to God, then one must also recognize that there was a group of young people in Scotland that banded together under the original leadership of William Irvine to go out to preach as was done in New Testament days by the original disciples and apostles.
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Post by ranger on Aug 21, 2009 2:42:02 GMT -5
As Christians do we need an organized "religion" or can we go it alone so to speak...living our lives according to the scriptures. If so, with whom would a person fellowship, or how would one partake of the emblems? It seems that as kindred spirits separated from the 2x2 Church that there would exist the foundation for a Church that would be pleasing to God. R- Can you name any in the Bible who went it alone, on their own? How about Jonah? John on the Isle of Patmos? Job had three friends, who did him little good. Daniel had three friends who were a help and inspiration to him. My impression is that for each of us there are times when will have no choice but to go it alone. Times of fellowship help prepare us for these lonely experiences. Death in itself will be a very lonely experience unless we have Jesus as our friend and intercessor. Of course this does not address the original question concerning starting a church pleasing to God. If one assumes the F&W fellowship pleasing to God, then one must also recognize that there was a group of young people in Scotland that banded together under the original leadership of William Irvine to go out to preach as was done in New Testament days by the original disciples and apostles. Ronhall, Thank you for reminding me of all those who "went it alone"... I don't know why but I didn't think to search the Bible for these examples. I suppose that I was focused more on Jesus' statement that he will be where two gather in his name (loosely), and other references to the need for fellowship. As I read this forum it seems to me that there are some who see clearly and accept the entire message provided for us in the Scriptures. It also seems to me a small step that those would be the foundation of a new fellowship. I suppose this could be reinventing the wheel...but as I look around I see more of where people have been and less about where they are going as they exit the 2x2 Church. R-
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Post by ronhall on Aug 21, 2009 9:46:52 GMT -5
Ranger,
I think you've hit it on the nail. Its OK to focus on a particular passage or thought for a day, but there is always so much more to continue on with.
Of course we, as humans, like to sit around the campfire and recount to each other things in the past -- but when the sun begins to show itself on the eastern sky, the F&W are up and going about their business for the day.
Of those who are exiting or who have exited the fellowship, I don't see any predominate directional pattern. Of those I am personally acquainted with, a few go this way, some that way but it seems most find themselves going no way at all. I've even considered the prospect myself. Where would I go? What would I do differently? I honestly have no idea.
Concerning starting a new fellowship -- I really can't think of a reason to model it after anything but the original New Testament church. Rather than attempt to start a new fellowship, why not just remodel myself and my own thinking to the teaching of Jesus within the fellowship that has already been modeled after the New Testament church?
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 21, 2009 10:22:30 GMT -5
Concerning starting a new fellowship -- I really can't think of a reason to model it after anything but the original New Testament church. Rather than attempt to start a new fellowship, why not just remodel myself and my own thinking to the teaching of Jesus within the fellowship that has already been modeled after the New Testament church?Which part do you feel is modeled after the New Testament church, and can you give a reference to the verses that support it? How about the convention verses? Special meeting verses? Potluck verses? (actually this one is one that I think follows the gathering together more than any in the bible!) Sunday morning meetings? Wed night Bible studies? Just curious about this ronhall. The argument is always 'the meetings in the home' and the itinerant ministers. Very seldom do I see anything that points to an apostle being tied down to an area they are in 'charge of' as happens with the workers. Rather in the bible it points to the elders being in charge of the local churches. As to meeting in the homes, the format that I read is that they got together and ATE together in the homes, and never established any kind of sacrament ritual as far as the 'bread and wine'. Jesus' instruction was 'when you do this', and didn't spell out where or a specific day. We could do this anywhere and anytime I believe. Are you sure that you are referring to the actual New Testament church when you say: fellowship that has already been modeled after the New Testament church or is that merely the traditions of man that has been determined to be what the New Testament church would be like in this day and age? Just curious, as a lot of churches feel they are doing things correctly in regard to worship, but do not try to say that they are the 'right' church because of their own traditions that have been handed down. Scott
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Post by lin on Aug 21, 2009 10:39:58 GMT -5
I think lin is too busy to post here .................. you'll find him on professing kids and that's the truth, Facebook. Did I disturb you? On facebook?
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Post by ranger on Aug 21, 2009 15:14:36 GMT -5
Ronhall,
Just for clarification...are you referring to the 2x2 Church here?
R-
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Post by fred on Aug 22, 2009 6:30:54 GMT -5
I think lin is too busy to post here .................. you'll find him on professing kids and that's the truth, Facebook. Did I disturb you? On facebook? Nah,lin.............in fact one occasionally sees the odd adult on that site.
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Post by ronhall on Aug 24, 2009 18:23:02 GMT -5
Concerning starting a new fellowship -- I really can't think of a reason to model it after anything but the original New Testament church. Rather than attempt to start a new fellowship, why not just remodel myself and my own thinking to the teaching of Jesus within the fellowship that has already been modeled after the New Testament church?Which part do you feel is modeled after the New Testament church, and can you give a reference to the verses that support it? How about the convention verses? Special meeting verses? Potluck verses? (actually this one is one that I think follows the gathering together more than any in the bible!) Sunday morning meetings? Wed night Bible studies? Just curious about this ronhall. The argument is always 'the meetings in the home' and the itinerant ministers. Very seldom do I see anything that points to an apostle being tied down to an area they are in 'charge of' as happens with the workers. Rather in the bible it points to the elders being in charge of the local churches. As to meeting in the homes, the format that I read is that they got together and ATE together in the homes, and never established any kind of sacrament ritual as far as the 'bread and wine'. Jesus' instruction was 'when you do this', and didn't spell out where or a specific day. We could do this anywhere and anytime I believe. Are you sure that you are referring to the actual New Testament church when you say: fellowship that has already been modeled after the New Testament church or is that merely the traditions of man that has been determined to be what the New Testament church would be like in this day and age? Just curious, as a lot of churches feel they are doing things correctly in regard to worship, but do not try to say that they are the 'right' church because of their own traditions that have been handed down. Scott Scott, I believe you are as familiar as I with the specific verses that the F&W quote to give credibility to an itinerant ministry, meeting in the home and all the other salient features of this way, so there is little point in re-hashing. We have both heard that "times change, but Jesus never changes." That statement says a lot. In New Testament times, few in the world had ever heard about Jesus. Therefore the ministry divided up, most stayed in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas where there were many converts to pastor and some went out to the rest of the world. We know that because Paul came back to Jerusalem to discuss and establish some doctrinal points with Peter and the others that were there to gain agreement and unity. Also the epistles to Timothy, Titus and Philemon are referred to as the 'pastorals', not by the workers, but by the religious scholars. So the notion of a pastoral ministry was already in place, in my mind. Now as time has elapsed, much if not most of the inhabitants of the world have heard about Jesus. This causes a shift such that more of the work has become pastoral in nature rather than evangelical. So as Peter may have felt 'tied down in Jerusalem' in his day, workers today are assigned areas or fields. I suppose I could ask similar questions of you and the way your church operates (and by the way, your explanation of how they might treat a person who had been convicted of CSA was very good and the F&W would be very wise to do the same!), but I will only mention a question I ask myself. You see, I love pipe organ and choral music. If I were to choose another church, I'm sure that would be a significant factor in my choice. As such, I often attend recitals and events held where I can listen to the music. However I often ask myself, "If Jesus were to come again as he did immediately after his resurrection, knowing that he first appeared to the women walking who were disappointed that he was gone when they came to anoint his body, then he visited those disciples gathered together, would he be likely to visit this church building with its magnificent organ, or might a little rag-tag group of aspiring Christians in a Sunday morning meeting be the recipients of his holy presence?" The conclusion I always come to is I'm exceedingly glad for William Irvine, Ed Cooney and all the rest through the present day workers, some of honor and some dishonored, but all who with God's help established a way that even I can relate to in seeing Jesus.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 30, 2009 7:24:30 GMT -5
Well if you want the truth my primary fellowship in the last few yrs has been on here apart from times when I have gotten with my friends on the blower or my children. Ive poked my nose in the odd church on some rare occasions. Recent events in my personal life I now have fellowship daily bz of what God is doing.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 30, 2009 7:31:56 GMT -5
As Christians do we need an organized "religion" or can we go it alone so to speak...living our lives according to the scriptures. If so, with whom would a person fellowship, or how would one partake of the emblems? It seems that as kindred spirits separated from the 2x2 Church that there would exist the foundation for a Church that would be pleasing to God. R- ranger Its not good to be an island. Sometimes our lives takes turns that are unexpected and our circumstances change. Mine did. I was alone and isolated away from friends and close family in another country. My life flipped over and I became a complete mess. In all of it I made some hideous stoopid mistakes but the Lord held on to me through it and has brought me out and healed me, yet again. He does not let you go and wont. Fellowship is good but there were times when I couldnt handle some of the things my christian friends would tell me I had to discover my mistakes for myself. We dont need organised religion we need christ the holy spirit and the father. You can partake of the emblems as often as you wish to remember.
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