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Post by ilylo on Jul 15, 2009 14:41:00 GMT -5
Half-baked, plagiarized website, perhaps.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 15, 2009 16:32:27 GMT -5
The half-baked plagiarist is getting bossy.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 15, 2009 16:43:30 GMT -5
I know you like to follow and protect your beloved Cherie on TMB.... She is old enough to answer for herself, please. If I don't like the bull crap that you're posting about her then I will point it out.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 15, 2009 17:13:39 GMT -5
Nate: just so you know, and we have a full, complete understanding: In my book, you're on a "need to know" basis, and have been for quite some time. In other words, if you ask me a question and I think you "need to know" the answer, I respond. Sometimes that happens when you bear false witness about me or my work. I respond with corrected, truthful information. Otherwise, I usually ignore you. Re your question below---IMO, it is a "dont need to know" question. I can see no edifying reason in the world that you need to know the information you asked--when its totally None of Your Business. For any questions you ask in the future--and I dont reply--you now know the reason why. ~~ I read on TMB... that WINGS had their own list of names and you have your own list of names also. Cherie, do you still have and KEEP a list of so and so workers and friends names for CSA and sexual abused in the 2x2 fellowship? How did you come to obtain such a list of those names? How many names have you collected so far?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 15, 2009 18:31:28 GMT -5
Yes you did, Nate, bear false witness regarding me.
See Posts #73 and 75 above.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 15, 2009 18:39:44 GMT -5
O.K. Scott, you are getting a bent out of shape because a few questions were asked. Any worthy cause would never get upset about questions regarding their cause.
First, there never was just two girls turning in reports to the police. There was always four people present. Documented on papers! The girls were not the complainant. So, why would they not be? Who came up with the names is the problem. And how did they get the names? Anyone that is involved with a false allegations, will stand up for anyone that could also experience the dreadful incident. Does the law officers accept Wings doing homework for them? I would think that could be an appeal if that was found out. Wings may continue on with I hope with good intentions always, but I'll bet that people will be much more careful with whom they share information. And, if verified that someone from Wings did tell names, it will be told eventually. Then let the chips fall as they may.
Scott you named three people that were involved on this thread. There have been more and that we know because they even said who they were. There has been many, not personally involved, but just involved with comments, judgment and rudeness. They were standing up for the workers. Now that it has been found that there was aiding and abetting, where are those people that stood up for them and passed so many hateful comments? Of course when it says, working on behalf of the ministers, that may find you in court and I would believe we may just put our tail between our legs and hide. All those people that tried so hard to discredit us and then it comes out with a big bang, and the only one that I know that has made any excuse for them at all is you! You always said you were not taking sides, only posted facts but, a different picture was shown when the news came out that the very people that you thought were right, actually was seen through by the courts and discredited.
The girls are over in court for now. They will get the needed help that is required we hope. But the linch mob is still at large and how do they respond to having two young girls lives completely shattered and for what? Perhaps if you asked them, since you say you talk to Kelly, ask her that question. I'll bet she;ll laugh and not give you an honest answer. That is why other people are trying to get the honest answer. We will not settle for the laugh!!
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Post by sharon on Jul 15, 2009 19:23:34 GMT -5
I honestly believe that a civil lawsuit is needed, badly! And I hate lawsuits for NO ONE really wins anything! But I think that this is going to be the only way that the innocent are known and the guilty are found......the problem is it seems to me that it really stacks up like more then one civil lawsuit....one for who was falsely accused and one for who was the "aide de camp's"!
I'm praying very hard that WINGS can come out in the clear and very soon....I know in order for them to be of assistance to the real victims, their name needs to stay above water! I've wondered just how much they were used in this MI case when it first broke....however seems like they distanced themselves fairly early, didn't they?
I strongly suspect that the older companions of the twins were well able to turn the world upside by themselves....but I also have to wonder how much they're the fall guys as well!
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 15, 2009 19:38:02 GMT -5
Yes you did, Nate, bear false witness regarding me. See Posts #73 and 75 above. ~~ I read my posts again and sorry if you feel it that way. ALL I did was asking some questions.NO - asking some questions was not ALL you did. What you did was state that I did something that I would NEVER EVER do. What you stated I did is so far off base--it's not even funny. You don't have a clue. You have lied about me, in an effort to make me look bad. Your "token apology" is NOT accepted.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 15, 2009 21:56:33 GMT -5
Perhaps someone could do a 'ripped from todays headlines' example of how the names could have gotten from WINGS to court.
ASSUMING that WINGS has a list, how did it get to the twins? Were the accusations listed with the names?
Did/do the twins even know the WINGS exists? Did WINGS exist at the time the accusations were being made?
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 15, 2009 22:06:38 GMT -5
It is time for everyone to go home and focus on something else more beneficial. (I think I feel a four day weekend calling me ;D ) A few weeks ago we watched a kids recital and a couple of the sections featured the kids with their Dad's. Some of the Dad's were in their 20's others looked closer to 60's (could have been Grandfathers). Watching them reminded me to try to spend more time with (positive) family and friends. (And for whatever reason) Live is too short to hold grudges.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 15, 2009 22:08:11 GMT -5
Perhaps someone could do a 'ripped from todays headlines' example of how the names could have gotten from WINGS to court. ASSUMING that WINGS has a list, how did it get to the twins? Were the accusations listed with the names? Did/do the twins even know the WINGS exists? Did WINGS exist at the time the accusations were being made? The false accusations just never stop, do they?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 15, 2009 22:44:50 GMT -5
O.K. Scott, you are getting a bent out of shape because a few questions were asked. Any worthy cause would never get upset about questions regarding their cause.No, I get bent out of shape because the same questions keep getting asked. First, there never was just two girls turning in reports to the police. There was always four people present. Documented on papers! The girls were not the complainant. So, why would they not be? Who came up with the names is the problem. And how did they get the names? Anyone that is involved with a false allegations, will stand up for anyone that could also experience the dreadful incident.OK. Does the law officers accept Wings doing homework for them? I would certainly hope not. Usually an officer of the law gathers information and then tries to verify it through an investigation. It would be a pretty poor investigator to accept what someone else tells them anyhow. I would think that could be an appeal if that was found out. Not sure what you mean. Wings may continue on with I hope with good intentions always, but I'll bet that people will be much more careful with whom they share information. And, if verified that someone from Wings did tell names, it will be told eventually. Then let the chips fall as they may.And you continue to insinuate that somehow WINGS was providing names which were then reported to the authorities. Scott you named three people that were involved on this thread. There have been more and that we know because they even said who they were. Who were they? Could you list them here for us? The three that I mentioned (yourself, cheechette and White Knight) were not people that were 'involved' in the case as only White Knight has said that he was on the list of accused. Out of consideration for who you are I will not mention how the other two of you are involved, although it certainly would help people understand why you are pushing the issue as you do. There has been many, not personally involved, but just involved with comments, judgment and rudeness. I certainly agree with that! They were standing up for the workers. Now that it has been found that there was aiding and abetting, where are those people that stood up for them and passed so many hateful comments? Of course when it says, working on behalf of the ministers, that may find you in court and I would believe we may just put our tail between our legs and hide. Not sure why you feel you need to put your tail between you legs and hide..... All those people that tried so hard to discredit us and then it comes out with a big bang, and the only one that I know that has made any excuse for them at all is you! I haven't felt I was making excuses for anyone. I have simply stated how I feel. It seems as if you have been really trying to make it look as if there is no wrongdoing by anyone other than the workers in the two issues that have been going on in Michigan. That obviously isn't true based on the findings of the court in the child abuse case that started the whole mess. You always said you were not taking sides, only posted facts but, a different picture was shown when the news came out that the very people that you thought were right, actually was seen through by the courts and discredited.So far there have been 4 people charged in Michigan in the two separate cases involving the family. None of them entered a plea of not guilty. The girls are over in court for now. They will get the needed help that is required we hope. But the linch mob is still at large and how do they respond to having two young girls lives completely shattered and for what? Perhaps if you asked them, since you say you talk to Kelly, ask her that question. My understanding is that one of the girls is doing really well. She has a job that she really enjoys and is moving ahead with her life. She is glad to be done with the whole issue other than meeting the terms of her probation, and is beginning to enjoy the return to a normal lifestyle. Her life is not shattered, although it has certainly been altered by all she has been through. It is sad that the two girls are unable to speak to each other at this time, but hopefully that will resolve itself in the future. I sincerely hope so. I'll bet she;ll laugh and not give you an honest answer. That is why other people are trying to get the honest answer. We will not settle for the laugh!!Actually, I am pretty sure that Kelly would give me an honest answer to any question I might ask of her. I see I am the one that is answering questions here, but notice that you don't seem to think it strange that I am being accused of having names while you seem to have this 'list of 200' that keeps coming up. How did you get the 'list of 200'? How are you going to use the 'list of 200'? How many of the people on the 'list of 200' even know they are on it? Who have you talked to about the 'list of 200'? Do you discuss the names on the 'list of 200' with anyone else? Have you shown the 'list of 200' to anyone? And if so, how many? Aren't these the names you keep mentioning are going to be 'sealed' from public view? And if so, how can it be sealed if you have it now? Are you contacting all those on the 'list of 200' to let them know they are on it" Thanks for answering the questions. Scott
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Post by cheechette on Jul 15, 2009 23:07:37 GMT -5
Scott, Reply #51.... The list that was accumulated over time and became a master piece is NOT public information. You will not be able to get the list from anyone unless it is a copy of the names before turned into the police. The list is suppose to be kept locked up so the innocent people don't have this information tarnishing their own record. If you were able to see the list then you would be able to know every name on the list accused which is not a legal practice. I must be confused on another issue then. It appears from the postings that I have read from White Knight that he has this list. If so, then did he somehow get it illegally? The only way that this can be on your record is if you go to court and have your name cleared and even then your name will always be on the list even though you were found innocent. Otherwise, this is a skeleton list and does not show on your personal record and is to be kept as secret information forever. (Quoted from a highly experienced lawyer) So.... if nothing is done, no court appearance at all then the list means nothing? (I am probably misunderstanding what you are saying as it appears that you are saying that the only way it ends up on any record is by going to court and THEN it becomes part of your record??) Scott
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 16, 2009 6:30:23 GMT -5
Scott asked JHJmr: And two more questions: (1) How many men's names on the "200 name list" were men living in MI or men who were from MI originally? [Scott reported that the WINGS list only had 3 men from MI and one of those was long dead...] (2) How many men's name on the "200 name list" are/were professing or associated with the 2x2 fellowship in the present or past? [If I'm not mistaken, I believe that WINGS restricts their list to those who are/were associated with the 2x2 fellowship] So lets calculate: 200 names - less all the professing MI men's names--except for 2; less all the non-professing men's names--EQUALS how many names are left from the "200 name list"
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Post by sharon on Jul 16, 2009 7:06:53 GMT -5
I honestly believe that a civil lawsuit is needed, badly! And I hate lawsuits for NO ONE really wins anything! But I think that this is going to be the only way that the innocent are known and the guilty are found......the problem is it seems to me that it really stacks up like more then one civil lawsuit....one for who was falsely accused and one for who was the "aide de camp's"! I'm praying very hard that WINGS can come out in the clear and very soon....I know in order for them to be of assistance to the real victims, their name needs to stay above water! I've wondered just how much they were used in this MI case when it first broke....however seems like they distanced themselves fairly early, didn't they? I strongly suspect that the older companions of the twins were well able to turn the world upside by themselves....but I also have to wonder how much they're the fall guys as well! I disagree. God said vengeance is mine. With all of the events, the family has been traumatized enough! More court appearances does not guarantee the outcome you want, in fact, it may give you what you don't want--- Periodot, I'm not out for vengence....I'd like the truth to be really known and every player put in their rightful place, whether innocent or guilty of negative things. I know vengence is the Lord's but don't you think He can used the judicial system? I'm not disallowing anything God might use!
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GoBlue
Senior Member
Posts: 201
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Post by GoBlue on Jul 16, 2009 10:52:52 GMT -5
So then you are accusing in an implied manner Scott and Wings of libel and slander by indicting them as the ones who gave names? Or you are just trying to damage Scott, Wings or who ever else your mind thinks is at fault---- You know I say that you should perhaps stay away from this line of posting ----- You may be very wrong. ~~ To solve the mystery! WK, jhjrm, and others who have been falsely accused I say go for civil lawsuit! so the truth will be known and be corrected and as a warning to those falsely accused, aiding and abetting to realize this is NOT something anyone wants to apart of because they might end up in prison with the accuser/s. I Corinthians 6 came to mind this morning: 1Co 6:1 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 1Co 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 1Co 6:4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 1Co 6:5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 1Co 6:6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 1Co 6:7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 1Co 6:8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud--even your own brothers!
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 16, 2009 11:03:54 GMT -5
~~ To solve the mystery! WK, jhjrm, and others who have been falsely accused I say go for civil lawsuit!Probably a good way to help those folks out would be for you to contact them and offer to support the court case that you are calling for financially Nathan. It would be nice if you would be willing to help them out in that way, as it would be for anyone else that feels as strongly as you do about this. I am sure that financial support would be greatly appreciated. I am still curious as to how many on the 'list of 200' even know they are on the list, and if so whether they are supportive of a civil suit being filed which could bring their names into the spotlight. So far, we have only a few people that have claimed to see the 'list of 200', and they haven't mentioned how they got a hold of it, what they are going to do with it, and whether it was obtained legally. Based on what I have read, the 'list of 200' is supposed to be sealed from public view, and yet here it is known to be in someone's hands out of the court system and being discussed. I REALLY am curious as to how many people have actually seen this 'list of 200'. As it is, so the truth will be known and be corrected and as a warning to those falsely accused, aiding and abetting to realize this is NOT something anyone wants to apart of because they might end up in prison with the accuser/s.In prison with who? As far as I know there isn't anyone in prison over this. The way I understand it, in the opinion of the court the truth is known. There were false allegations made, charges filed against those that presented the false allegations and sentences given. It will be interesting to see if a civil lawsuit will be filed against the twins, as they were the ones charged in this matter. Especially since one entered a guilty plea and the other a plea of no contest, and are no longer together. I find it interesting that now jhjmr is trying to push the idea that the names didn't come from the girls at all, but rather they came from others. From her post above: The girls were not the complainant. So, why would they not be? Who came up with the names is the problem. And how did they get the names? And yet, the twins were charged with making false reports, even though someone else was listed as the complainant? That doesn't make sense to me, but I suppose the prosecutor may have made a mistake in charging the wrong people here huh? One person that contacted me a while back mentioned how easy it would be to come up with a lot of names just be going through the guest book. If the places they were staying were anything like my home growing up, everyone who visited got to sign the guest book. I am NOT trying to say that happened, but it would be relatively easy to check the guest book where they were staying against those names.... Scott
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 16, 2009 11:10:21 GMT -5
Scott wrote:
And also very easy to make a list by checking over the annual convention photos of workers - names usually accompany them.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 16, 2009 12:42:29 GMT -5
~~ Scott, I have contacted some of them and encouraged them to go for the civil lawsuit and so the truth be known and revealed who gave the innocent friends and workers names to the authority. This MI fiasco is a good lesson for all to know and learn.Some of them? Only one of the three posting here was accused, and we know that because he told us so. The other two posting here were not named on the list so would have nothing to do with a civil suit other than as observers. We also know who gave the names to the authorities. They have both received sentences for their actions. Of interest is that I have talked a lot on the phone in the past with White Knight, and so I know his situation rather well, as well as some of the others he talked about who were accused. In fact, some of the names reported to me were heard from him, and now I am being accused of 'spreading names'...... I actually have to chuckle about that. AND... I also know jhjmr who I have been in email contact with since before the story was ever made public here on the board concerning the family. They also mentioned some issues concerning certain names that are (probably) on the list. These are names which are from other unrelated issues. AND.... I have also been in email contact with cheechette on some occasions. Weird part about it is I tend to like these people and have been somewhat surprised that they have all decided that somehow WINGS had a hand in providing names to the twins which were then turned into the authorities. This lawsuit will make it known the seriousnes to name so and so on CSA, sexually abused charges NOT to be taken it lightly. Maybe through this MI fiasco the workers and the friends will be more Careful in turning names at the drop of a hat. They better be sure in what they pass, say and do or Jail time.It is already known to be serious to accuse people falsely. If people think the consequences are just slap on the wrists for making false accusation then they should THINK again if they spent time in prison. Prison will make people think twice for making false accusation.No, it is not just a slap on the wrist. In the case of the twins, it resulted in probation and certain restrictions they must follow during probation along with some court imposed fees. The one who entered a guilty plea got a fine imposed also. There was no prison time involved in their cases, although you have stated a few times now that you feel that they should have gotten jail time for filing a false report. If a person has been truly abused then there is NOTHING to worry about. Speak the truth and the abusers will go to jail not the real victims. It would be nice if that were so. Many times the abusers do not get charged due to lack of evidence, or the report is not done to the authorities and the issue is never investigated. Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 16, 2009 12:46:45 GMT -5
In the past years they swept it under the carpret because they didn't know how to deal with it now they name names at a drop of a hat without having all the facts. Hopefully, there is a middle ground.The requirement is to report suspicion of child abuse. You aren't supposed to try to find all the facts. That is the job of the authorities. There is no 'middle ground'. If you suspect CSA you report it and let it be investigated and cooperate with the investigation. The only part that I would add to that is to allow the investigation to take place without interference and gossip. Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 16, 2009 13:09:38 GMT -5
Scott, no where did I ever say that the girls came up with no names. They most certainly did. It is the people that are accused that they did not kniow or ever been with. Also, just alittle note----all names that were accused, had addresses. I do not have the list of names. And no one else is suppose to either. But, many does know many or all that were listed. And how do you suppose they do? Especially if they are ministers? It is a fact that names were shared with others. And they did NOT come from the police nor the court. How many papers were shared and with whom. No one is going to come forward freely, but all those accusations from the very beginning were from the four woman. Not two girls. And, yes, the girls are not the complainant!! Sure seems to me that you are aware of that fact also!! That did NOT come from the prosecutor and I think you are aware of that too.
So, as information is made known and sifted through, hopefully a clear picture will come forth. No double talk or back pedaling is going to make any difference.
Perhaps instead of finding out information about one of the twins, you could talk to her and find out first hand how things are. I hope she is happy and time will work out everything.
No one is in prison, and so don't try to put things in content that everyone knows better. Aiding and abetting can lead to a prison term. Worse, it destroys lives. So, I would think that could be a good civil suit. A civil suit against the girls, after one said she lied and the other entered no contest, because there absolutely was no other way, is not of importance when you consider the condition of the girls and their needs. Remember, they graduated from high school in June and between then and September they went drastically down hill. September is when they quit living with their parents until one wanted her parents love and support in March, 2009. Nothing needs to be said, the evidence does the talking for everyone. So, I will not contribute to back pedaling by anyone. Those that were not in the F & W would have been named by the twins. The rest came from any conclusion that is evident. Accordingly, I would believe probably 90% were present or pass F & W.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 16, 2009 13:14:34 GMT -5
ilylo, it is interesting how you came out of the woodwork to defend whom on this issue? It would seem you were called upon for someones defense. Wonder who couldn't defend themselves enough without your imput? No one cares, write what you must. It is a free world and with lots of opinions. But, when it comes to facts, now that is a different story. Any facts you would like share too?
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Post by ilylo on Jul 16, 2009 13:22:53 GMT -5
ilylo, it is interesting how you came out of the woodwork to defend whom on this issue? It would seem you were called upon for someones defense. Wonder who couldn't defend themselves enough without your imput? No one cares, write what you must. It is a free world and with lots of opinions. But, when it comes to facts, now that is a different story. Any facts you would like share too? Whom was I defending? Since you don't know, then you really don't have a complaint, now do you? Obviously someone cares, or else you wouldn't be so pissed off about my comment. Regardless of whatever position I may or may not have held... my earlier comment was spot on.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 16, 2009 13:48:38 GMT -5
Scott, no where did I ever say that the girls came up with no names. They most certainly did. OK. It just seemed as if in some of the posts it appeared that it was being said that they were GIVEN all the names. It is the people that are accused that they did not kniow or ever been with. Also, just alittle note----all names that were accused, had addresses. It is pretty easy to get addresses of people. I do it do it fairly often to figure out where people live or what their phone number is. Just go to the 'White Pages' and type in the name and state. It will give you addresses and phone numbers, and for a fee you can run background checks and other record searches on them. I do not have the list of names. And no one else is suppose to either. Well... Cleared that up didn't it? It still don't know how you would know that the 'list of 200' exists if you haven't seen it though. Have you seen it? Do you know who has it? I have a tough time envisioning 200 names being on a list, and that anyone could possibly have convinced the twins to name that many people as having abused them. It is one of the reasons I am skeptical that ANYONE would have helped them in compiling such a high amount of numbers. It just doesn't make sense to me. But, many does know many or all that were listed. And how do you suppose they do? Especially if they are ministers? It is a fact that names were shared with others. And they did NOT come from the police nor the court. How many papers were shared and with whom. Good question for sure. I would really like to know how many know all that were listed and how they got the list. I see a lot of accusations here about ministers passing on the list. I am curious as to how many ministers did that, and with whom. No one is going to come forward freely, but all those accusations from the very beginning were from the four woman. Not two girls. And, yes, the girls are not the complainant!! Sure seems to me that you are aware of that fact also!! That did NOT come from the prosecutor and I think you are aware of that too.By four women you are referring to Kelly, Sharon, Bethanie and Stephanie correct? So, as information is made known and sifted through, hopefully a clear picture will come forth. No double talk or back pedaling is going to make any difference.I agree. Once again it comes down to what comes out of the court system as far as any charges and convictions there are. Back when all this started concerning the abuse case, there were some who were upset about the facts that were listed in legal documents from the agencies involved. After the case was all over in regard to the family, it appears that some of the original charges/findings were ignored or tossed out by the court. That is no different than what is being seen here. Much has been made of the 'aiding and abetting', but I personally see that no different than reading that the parents even used a hammer in disciplining the children. It is something that was written down as a finding, but during the whole court practice it became a non-issue. Perhaps instead of finding out information about one of the twins, you could talk to her and find out first hand how things are. I hope she is happy and time will work out everything.I'll do that. If you had a message you would like me to pass on you could PM or email me with it. I heard her in the background during one my phone calls, although I have never spoken with her. I wouldn't be real surprised to find out that she has been reading everything here on the board anyhow so knows what is being said about everything.... No one is in prison, and so don't try to put things in content that everyone knows better. Nathan is the one that brought prison up and I responded to his statement. Aiding and abetting can lead to a prison term. Worse, it destroys lives. So, I would think that could be a good civil suit. A civil suit against the girls, after one said she lied and the other entered no contest, because there absolutely was no other way, is not of importance when you consider the condition of the girls and their needs. Sure. If there are grounds for filing. I am sure that any lawyer will say they will take the matter to court for a fee. Then it is up to the lawyer to have enough evidence that there was actually deliberate harm being done. Interesting that the twins would NOT be named in a civil suit after being charged and sentenced, but someone who hasn't been would be.... Remember, they graduated from high school in June and between then and September they went drastically down hill. September is when they quit living with their parents until one wanted her parents love and support in March, 2009. Okay. I am sure if there were any future problems she would be free to go elsewhere since she is 20 now, so I hope things are going well for her at home with the family and other kids. Nothing needs to be said, the evidence does the talking for everyone. So, I will not contribute to back pedaling by anyone.Me either. I am perfectly fine with the evidence in the case, although like with the abuse case, some evidence may be changed or disregarded by the court. Those that were not in the F & W would have been named by the twins. The rest came from any conclusion that is evident. Accordingly, I would believe probably 90% were present or pass F & W.Thanks. I didn't know of anyone that wasn't in the truth fellowship being named. IF there were 200 named, that means that about 20 were not associated with the truth fellowship I guess. Scott
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 16, 2009 18:44:57 GMT -5
Thank you jhjmr for this information regarding the alleged "200 name list":
Scott calculated:
OK - now...to continue with our calculations...
(1) How many on the alleged "200 name list" would you estimate were male FRIENDS from MICHIGAN? and (2) How many on the alleged "200 name list" would you estimate were male WORKERS-- from anywhere?
200 names on a list- LESS 20 non-professing men's names LESS all the professing MI male FRIENDS names--except for 2 (WINGS has 2 on their list); What figure goes here? EQUALS how many remaining names??
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Post by sharon on Jul 16, 2009 19:21:33 GMT -5
~~ Scott, I have contacted some of them and encouraged them to go for the civil lawsuit and so the truth be known and revealed who gave the innocent friends and workers names to the authority. This MI fiasco is a good lesson for all to know and learn.
This lawsuit will make it known the seriousnes to name so and so on CSA, sexually abused charges NOT to be taken it lightly. Maybe through this MI fiasco the workers and the friends will be more Careful in turning names at the drop of a hat. They better be sure in what they pass, say and do or Jail time.
If people think the consequences are just slap on the wrists for making false accusation then they should THINK again if they spent time in prison. Prison will make people think twice for making false accusation.
If a person has been truly abused then there is NOTHING to worry about. Speak the truth and the abusers will go to jail not the real victims.
In the past years they swept it under the carpret because they didn't know how to deal with it now they name names at a drop of a hat without having all the facts. Hopefully, there is a middle ground. Is there any of those who were falsely accused interested in a civil lawsuit...maybe there's more people who read on here that would gladly donate to the civil lawsuit finances. I would hope that a civil lawsuit would skim over the twins who've already met their judgment on the issue....so that means that someone would have to have a very definite idea of who was aiding and abetting the twins and who else might have gone around gossiping about the names on the list! JMO
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 16, 2009 21:18:29 GMT -5
O.K., you are feeling for an answer. How many Mi. men were there? No, all the professing male friends in Michigan were not named. And the number of males, not friends, from all over are many. So, you can not just try to pin it down to a state. How about country. And, how many have workers addresses? Those you don't pull up on the internet. They change a lot. So, the explanation got no where.
Any twin can read anything that I write. They know exactly what I am saying. There are no secrets or whispering going on. And once you say I lied, it is much easier to tell the truth than to pretend that you didn't lie. The twins has always been family ever since they came to the u.s. and always will. And, I thoroughly believe that the family will be reunited, all of the family. Nothing can substitute love.
Now, you keep mentioning the child abuse case. There were many allegations made , but why nothing more was said because, it to was found false. Do you ever think a judge would say oh well to a parent that would use a hammer? And do you ever think a child would be returned to such a parent. So, that is trying to come up with garbage to suffice for the court evidence that was shown. Not allegations. So, mentioning those facts all the time is definitely passing gossip and I was sure it was stated that only facts would be posted!! Remember, aiding and abetting was with all 6 children. It is in the papers. So, we know where you are getting your gossip from. But, they could not get the children to not want to go back home. They failed miserable!! If you seen how much those children love their parents and the relationship they have, that was not destroyed, you would never make comments like that. And the need and love that one twin, so far, has for her parents and her family is heart warming. So, everyone needs that love and support, so it'll come sooner or later, No one can take the place of family no matter how they try and eventually, family will prevail. We were all rebellious in our teen years, but there is no one like family. We all depend on our family. Mistakes are forgiven, help is sought, and life goes on.
I love the calculating. How many was on Cherie's list, she said she had? Maybe that could account for some of her calculation. Now that will make her hair curl, but everyone seems to be calling it as they see it.
The aiding and abetting of the twins was named in the court papers. No one needs to come up with a idea. It was realized long before the courts did. And court papers also tell who was gossiping about names. So, don't need an idea there neither. If the twins weren't aided and abetted, they could have had a teenagers meltdown, gone on with their lives and nothing would have ever happened like it did. They were even suppose to go for an interview that was scheduled, about attending a college. Instead, the workers had them on their was to Alma convention. Control had started.
So many things that have not been told yet, but I would think since Scott has a good relationship with everyone, he could be asking these questions.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 16, 2009 21:46:54 GMT -5
J: Why dont you just say you cant or dont want to answer my 2 questions...?? I asked them very simply. Why are you hedging...?? Two numbers were all you had to give...
RE: You said there were approx 10% (20) who were not F&W - are you changing that figure now? What is the new figure then? And why did you change it?
RE: It would have if you had answered the questions...and hadnt gone off on rabbit trails about irrelevant material like addresses, etc.
Once the categories I asked about specifically are pinned down, the rest of the names are F&W from out of state/country, right?
Let's try again: (1) How many on the alleged "200 name list" would you estimate were male FRIENDS from MICHIGAN? and (2) How many on the alleged "200 name list" would you estimate were male WORKERS-- from anywhere?
PS If you can come up with a way to make my hair stay curled in this humidity - I'll pay you good money!
CK
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