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Post by Sharon on Apr 15, 2009 16:32:58 GMT -5
"Sorry, Sharon, but I just got carried away with Nathan. His justifications make me crazy. It is attitudes like that, that keep me from ever coming back."
People's experiences usually lend them their outlook on various issues as you well know, Pianoman.....until one has tasted the dirt and dust themselves perhaps it is almost impossible to realize what others already know and understand.
It's just human nature in everything that makes difficulties....IMO
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Post by pianoman on Apr 15, 2009 17:00:34 GMT -5
Sharon, good opinion, IMO......................................Pianoman
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 15, 2009 19:14:45 GMT -5
So, if you seek Jesus, all riches shall be given unto you. I would think that the riches that Jesus would be giving would be righteous riches, not earthly gain. Remember, money is the root of all evil. It is how money makes you act and treat others. A worker needs a humble spirit to help others and with natural gain that humble spirit becomes lost because you feel superior. That is the problem today. Now if the workers don't hide money, then why when they receive money in an inheritance, why do they not accept it. It is for the gospel sake. Right? No, we hide it in someone elses name, and then request it at their desire, no questions asked and never reporting receiving money which is a wage. You don't have to report a certain amount of a gift, but they didn't receive the gift, the elder picked did, so it is not a gift anymore. It is hidden money. The elder goes to the court, pays the taxes due at the time, and puts it in his name in an account to be hid for another person. No matter how much you try to pretend this isn't wrong, it is money laundering. How does the IRS find this money? Never, the overseer would have you out like a light if it was reported. Does the overseer ever report receiving this money, never. This is not just $100.00 but put a couple or more zero's on. If the overseer gives the money to someone who owns a convention grounds, then he may claim he gave a gift. But actually how much money is spent on the religions own convention grounds that are now in trust for the religion? The picture just gets mirky and disturbing the more you look. Now, please tell me where in Matt. it says that is what Jesus taught!!
Also, it was not ex's. that told so many outright lies about the Michigan fiasco, it was those of the faith. Either willfully or stupidly, that is how the stories got made, exaggerated, and spread across the country like a fire. There were very few ex's involved in the matter. It was the love of the brothers and sisters and the workers that fanned the fire and showed the hate and division. In the bible it mentions, brother against brother, sister against sister, well we now know what that means! It isn't professing bothers against unprofessing brothers but it is professing brothers out to slaughter another professing brother. It is that holier than thou attitude that just gives anyone the right to destroy anyone that they want. After all, when you are holier than thou, you don't have to worry about that little guy under you, just walk over him. Don't help him up, don't give him a crumb. Sounds like a bible story that God wasn't pleased with.
WK and other have great expenses to try and salvage their sanity and name, but they have one thing more than the accusers. Their DIGNITY!! Even through all of this they have shown more of a genuine sincere spirit, helping each other with love and care and not shown malice and dishonesty towards anyone. Anyone with those qualities will prevail. We all think that God will take care of those that did wrong and were hateful but it is scary to think that those qualities aren't of God, so the evil probably will prevail and destroy others. They had better hope that God will show mercy to them if they repent and seek his help and guidance. Other than that, God will say, I did NOT KNOW THEM!!!!
You can surely see why when you question a worker about anything and they know nothing, it is much easier to say that you need to pray for more faith. You just aren't willing. That line is so old and used so much it is almost a fairy tale, but who would want to try and sort out and explain things that are so screwed up and pretend it came right out of scripture.
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 15, 2009 19:55:40 GMT -5
In regards to JF sending out letters and it being on the wings. Yes he did, but was it not after the reporting of the lies in Michigan that those letter were sent out? Yes, they were and they were in regards to PM, who is accused of misappropriate behavior in Mi. in more than one incident, then being sent to Wi. to continue in the misbehavior. No, he was not reported nor sent home but was just sent off to another state. It has been said that there was a lot of questions asked about PM and a lot of gossip long before those letters were ever mailed out by JF. PM was even named in the wonder list that was turned in to the police in the latest fiasco. But, you need to report anything that may be abusive and etc. and so JF made sure that was done in the Mi. case. That is fine, but why wasn't it done instead of sending PM across state lines? You had better send out a letter to let everyone think you are very concerned about misbehavior. Maybe more concerned about the outcome of not reporting abuse. Also, DB abrubtly left Mi. and went home. Misbehavior was also made against him but, JF took him off to another state to go home. That also was not checked nor reported. If not true, clear the matter. But, it was swept under the rug because the victim was an elders grandchild and one of JF's closest aquaintance. Now for the sake of the gospel, you just do what the victims parents insist on and everyone keeps quiet and all seems fine. So, JF just got busy putting out those letters, and even had to correct it to read instead of one person, some persons because he did not report any persons!
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Post by Sharon on Apr 15, 2009 19:55:44 GMT -5
jmjhr! I think it really says "The 'love" of money is the root of all evil." And you know it really does "color" people's attitude when that "love of money" gets the priority in their lives. Innies or outies are susceptible to this. Some "innie friends" like to use their "bucks" to get the workers in their pockets so they can "run" the state and that isn't showing love for the brethren either. I'm terribly sorry your family has suffered such horrendous things at the hands of those who should have be behind them 100%!
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Post by pianoman on Apr 15, 2009 21:41:28 GMT -5
JMJHR, I agree with both your posts. It is a sad day, and mostly for those like WK, and others that are not guilty. Dignity is indeed what they will have. I doubt they will ever be compensated for their financial losses, like I have posted and you also. The money is hidden. I hope all will come out in truth, and those that are guilty will admit and repent. You are right, these are the "special ones" that God will tell, I know you not. Also the entire fellowship is getting a black eye, and many do not deserve this kind of reputation. I hope all goes well in the ongoing mess. My best to all that will be honest........................................................Pianoman
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Post by déjà vu on Apr 16, 2009 0:21:57 GMT -5
jmjhr! I think it really says "The 'love" of money is the root of all evil." And you know it really does "color" people's attitude when that "love of money" gets the priority in their lives. Innies or outies are susceptible to this. Some "innie friends" like to use their "bucks" to get the workers in their pockets so they can "run" the state and that isn't showing love for the brethren either. I totally agree with you A high profile friend said to me once after an incident not approved by workers " you know it never hurts to grease the wheel"
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 16, 2009 6:14:22 GMT -5
Smooth, Cool, LOL.................
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Post by Sharon on Apr 16, 2009 7:10:55 GMT -5
I can't understand how JF stays in the position he's staying in or even staying in the work....he has such a blackeye all over the world...No one can respect him, NO ONE! That is really bad when a worker obtains such a reputation as to be so questionable in his dealings with folks whether they're guilty or not of whatever! JMO
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Post by pianoman on Apr 16, 2009 7:33:19 GMT -5
Right, Sharon, and in turn all that are affiliated with him, or the group that he is associated with, will lose so much credibility. How can one allow this to happen? That is the problem. No one has the power to stop him, and no one can find the money, so he has beaten the system. Apparently he just doesn't care about others. Sad......................Pianoman
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 16, 2009 8:22:07 GMT -5
If there are honest people having God control their actions, the money can be found as it is in elders accounts. It only takes one that knows how God planned his kingdom to break the silence. Look how long a wrong can prevail in a cult before someone just says enough is enough. Then the whole system is exposed and it all comes tumbling down. It can not be the blind leading the blind. So, it seems that there has been so much exposed in recent weeks that more will be. Did anyone ever think they would see the day that a worker or anyone in the faith would be sued? After all, weren't their actions suppose to be that of a Godly spirit? But when wrong is done unto others, a whole new can of worms are opened up. We'll call it spring cleaning!
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Apr 17, 2009 6:20:09 GMT -5
To whom it may concern; We now know a law firm from the Travers City has been hired and reading this board, we are sure you’ll enjoy the reading throughout all the threads, hopefully you can/will inform your clients of their wrong doings that this mess can truly be cleared up. I’m only wondering out loud, who’s going to pay for there, or who is paying for their fees? I suppose it’s none of my business as long as the blinders are kept on everyone…
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Post by jphillips on Apr 17, 2009 6:45:21 GMT -5
To whom it may concern; We now know a law firm from the Travers City has been hired and reading this board, we are sure you’ll enjoy the reading throughout all the threads, hopefully you can/will inform your clients of their wrong doings that this mess can truly be cleared up. I’m only wondering out loud, who’s going to pay for there, or who is paying for their fees? I suppose it’s none of my business as long as the blinders are kept on everyone… So WHAT Traverse City law firm is monitoring TMB?
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Post by lin on Apr 17, 2009 7:20:41 GMT -5
What happened to the praise for the sister workers, who wrote the letter to Wings. Weren't they at the root of this?
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Post by jphillips on Apr 17, 2009 7:59:04 GMT -5
What happened to the praise for the sister workers, who wrote the letter to Wings. Weren't they at the root of this? I think EVERYONE got 'suckered-in' by the twins lies. A bare-bone's reality in today's society is that the mere hint of any sexual impropriety prompts an instantaneous all-consuming offensive -- whether just-or-unjust. The mere suspicion of any sexual misconduct, especially with children, immediately pegs the accused as 'deviantly GUILTY' even before the evidence gathering process has begun. As for any tidbits that a LAW firm is gathering information from TMB -- HA. We've seen posts of tales of the IRS, the Michigan State police, ... monitoring TMB in the last year-and-a-half for scintillating information on the 'TRUTH.' Enough said.
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 17, 2009 9:41:44 GMT -5
The sister worker title sure does have a definition go with it. They were everyones sister in the work. What work? Workers of evil? I would not want them to be my sisters. When it is said, you are my brother or sister in truth, beware of what they consider truthful. That is what a title means. It is the title and the position that goes with the title that has become the monster of wrong doings. In Prov. 6-8, it says there was no guide, overseer or ruler and everything was provided. Does that mean there was no title of someone telling you how to do things? Help was always provided in all the teachings when needed. God is to be the guide, overseer and ruler. Nathan stated that apostles/workers (made up name) were to be supported. They are well supported. Why do they need a bank account? Why do they need to receive inheritances? Supported is to take care of. If you want to give a person a position of superiority, put them on a pedestal, actually worship them, teach that they are above everyone and they would never do wrong or lead you astray you have a fiasco. It becomes a brainwashing from childhood. It is preached over and over until it is believed. The trust that is taught is why so many have been taken advantage of and wrong things have been done. That is how you have the ability to even abuse someone. You become blind to everything that is done or said because of the reverance you have been taught and told. There is no responsiblity of a person that is put above everyone. They know they are worshipped and believed. Automatically you are a worker, you are in that category. It says the Lord hateth the abdomination of a lying tongue, a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, running of mischief and HE THAT SOWETH DISCORD AMONG THE BRETHREN. So if you want the title, worker, beware of what the work is that is done. The word worker, is not in the bible. No such title.
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 17, 2009 9:55:57 GMT -5
What happened to the praise for the sister workers, who wrote the letter to Wings. Weren't they at the root of this?Here is a link to the letter from two sister workers. This letter is NOT referring to the issues in Michigan: wingsfortruth.info/sisworker2.pdfI have recieved other emails from workers thanking WINGS for providing a resource for those who have suffered CSA issues. Scott
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Post by Sharon on Apr 17, 2009 10:24:07 GMT -5
You know, Scott, those 2 sister workers says that want people to feel free to keep in touch, but then turn around and ask that you leave their names off the email. Kind of saying, I want to help, but please don't expect it of me! JMO
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Post by Sharon on Apr 17, 2009 10:31:38 GMT -5
What happened to the praise for the sister workers, who wrote the letter to Wings. Weren't they at the root of this? I think EVERYONE got 'suckered-in' by the twins lies. A bare-bone's reality in today's society is that the mere hint of any sexual impropriety prompts an instantaneous all-consuming offensive -- whether just-or-unjust. The mere suspicion of any sexual misconduct, especially with children, immediately pegs the accused as 'deviantly GUILTY' even before the evidence gathering process has begun. As for any tidbits that a LAW firm is gathering information from TMB -- HA. We've seen posts of tales of the IRS, the Michigan State police, ... monitoring TMB in the last year-and-a-half for scintillating information on the 'TRUTH.' Enough said. The "discovery" search may be for more excommunications in all reality! Depending on who hired who, I suppose! But I know for a certainty that truth will prevail as Jmjhr said! Sometimes it doesn't come out as fast as we want it to...but in God's time it will prevail....so those looking to discredit someone in a negative fashion...to use it for their own benefit can well be found out now or in eternity! That's God's decision, you know!
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 17, 2009 10:43:31 GMT -5
You know, Scott, those 2 sister workers says that want people to feel free to keep in touch, but then turn around and ask that you leave their names off the email. Kind of saying, I want to help, but please don't expect it of me! JMO Sharon, What the email said was: If you would like to contact us, we would love to keep in touch. Feel free to post our email, but please leave our names off of it.They mentioned that if YOU would like to contact us....meaning WINGS.... Kind of interesting that everyone is assuming that the two sister workers who sent this email are from Michigan..... Scott
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 17, 2009 11:50:47 GMT -5
'He said, she said' sums it up.
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Post by pianoman on Apr 17, 2009 14:53:19 GMT -5
UK01, Here in the States, there are many laws written but that is why there are so many lawyers around, they don't practice "law", they practice twisting the laws to fit what they want.
I will clarify that with, I have had some very good Patent and real estate lawyers and they all aren't bad.
Back to the Michigan Case. These lawyers will do what they can, but those that stand accused will have this accusation on their permanent record forever. How will that ever be repaired?
This is the power of the money system that I have mentioned. The workers can come up with money to defend their actions, but it doesn't look like they are going to help the wrongly accused.
Just the actions of this case, should open a lot of eyes as to the validity of the "truth", as a group.
Yes there are many innocent and very faithful individuals tied to the group, but how long will that last?
I hope that this will work out, but don't see a good end in sight for all....................Pianoman
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Post by jhjmr on Apr 17, 2009 17:40:04 GMT -5
We are assuming that workers are a centain person. But if you were a worker in the bible it was what you were working to accomplish as a job. You could work for justice and a Godly spirit or you could work evil. Now, that does not give anyone the title worker. The title worker as used in the faith is putting someone higher than others as they are workers and everyone else is to look up to them. That is a different perspective completely. Everyone serving God is a worker for God doing his job here on earth to be paid in heaven later. The worker together with him clearly lets it be known it is everyone that is serving him. So, the title is still a man made title for superiority. Overseer is just taking it higher yet. Regional overseer is greater yet and the pride of the title just continues on. The work done by those type of workers is shown to all.
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Post by Jason Storebo on Apr 17, 2009 18:02:04 GMT -5
Is the word "pastor" is the Bible?
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Post by Jason Storebo on Apr 17, 2009 18:06:04 GMT -5
I think just possibly all this blather about who's got the truth & who ain't got the truth is moot. How's about what ever works for you, is fine...and whatever works for somebody else is fine.
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Post by pianoman on Apr 17, 2009 20:07:23 GMT -5
Jasonstorebo, that is the way it should be. I live my life, I answer for it, in the end.
In the meantime, there is this huge Case in Michigan, and those caught up in it have the right to express how they feel about betrayal and power abuse.
Let us not forget what this thread is about................................................Pianoman
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Post by Sharon on Apr 17, 2009 20:23:47 GMT -5
We are assuming that workers are a centain person. But if you were a worker in the bible it was what you were working to accomplish as a job. True! Didn't Paul say the laborer was worthy his hire?
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Post by Sharon on Apr 17, 2009 20:25:33 GMT -5
Jasonstorebo, that is the way it should be. I live my life, I answer for it, in the end. In the meantime, there is this huge Case in Michigan, and those caught up in it have the right to express how they feel about betrayal and power abuse. Let us not forget what this thread is about................................................Pianoman I don't think it's too bad an idea either for the rest of us to show those dear folks who've suffered so much adversity that we're behind them, that we still love them and we're as sorry as all get-out that they're still suffering! Do You?
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