White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Dec 25, 2008 22:30:42 GMT -5
"All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Couldn’t have said it any clearer CherieKropp
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Post by rjs on Dec 26, 2008 10:05:06 GMT -5
I think removing the head worker from his position is the first step to healing the whole fracasse! At least in MI! And I'm afraid if he went to another state he'd find his position there quite ineffectual! And rightly the respect due him in MI is quite fractured as well! I actually feel sorry for him in his position, right now! *** Send him to Wisconsin. Charles Thain is in his mid 80s. Or send him to OH. I have said it many times and several objected. I don't think a worker should oversee his home state..too many prejudices and opinions. JF is dedicated to the work. He wants to help people find the right way as he sees it. But he needs to move elsewhere. And then the situation would improve. Bring in someone with no biases and opinions about the case. But let me tell you, JF isn't going anywhere unless Greg H. wants to leave KY. JF has spent the last 26 years in either KY or MI. I believe he left Wisconsin in 1982.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Dec 26, 2008 14:59:23 GMT -5
I hear that Barry Barkley has taken over Taylor Woods position, is this true?
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Post by jhjmr on Dec 27, 2008 11:44:22 GMT -5
Greg H. is a overseer, with a head overseer. JF put him in the position when he took him from Mi. to Ky. But forsay, Greg is not the controller. JF would not leave Mi. willing because, yes he would lose his clout, but he also travels constantly between Ky . and Mi. which is convenient for him. But, the spirit a person has follows them, so if the spirit is wrong, they will find the same situation as in Mi. It isn't because he was from Mi., he only became the way he is when he became overseer with power and control. That personality follows you where you go. The control must be removed and a person humbled before that could be removed and lets see, he went through the system, he payed his dues, now he deserves the power. He also controls the money situation in two states. Now cut off someones power of the money and you have a mad man. So, who would want that person to control their state? Besides, do away with the overseer position and now you are talking. Get back to serving God, now you are talking. Quit influencing others to show evil spirits. When the overseer is worshipped, and don't even tell me that isn't true, then you have made a monster. Now, how do you take the monster out of the man??
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Dec 28, 2008 21:13:34 GMT -5
Was that lightning or thunder?
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Post by Sharon on Dec 28, 2008 21:31:49 GMT -5
I hear that Barry Barkley has taken over Taylor Woods position, is this true? I think it's safe to say yes...for Barry had done most of that for a time before Taylor died!
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Post by jhjmr on Dec 30, 2008 10:30:43 GMT -5
With all storms there is lightning and thunder. When the storm ends it is then quiet and peaceful.
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Post by Sharon on Dec 31, 2008 22:58:03 GMT -5
With all storms there is lightning and thunder. When the storm ends it is then quiet and peaceful. I have a friend who went and bought a large panel of barn sheet metal and laid outside her bedroom window so she could hear the rain on it! I think it was her way of drowning out the clashes of lightning and thunder!
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 1, 2009 12:59:52 GMT -5
Mtgs were also in the great grandparents home for about 55- 60yrs. Then went to the grand parents home. I find it extremely strange that so much ephasis is put on the number of years a meeting is in a home. Does this indicate a "great" person? There are people who have had meetings in their home for many years, who are less than admirable. (this is not saying anything about this family, as I don't know them, but we shouldn't start boasting about how many years of meetings in the home to make a point.)
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jan 1, 2009 14:39:26 GMT -5
Mtgs were also in the great grandparents home for about 55- 60yrs. Then went to the grand parents home. I find it extremely strange that so much ephasis is put on the number of years a meeting is in a home. Does this indicate a "great" person? There are people who have had meetings in their home for many years, who are less than admirable. (this is not saying anything about this family, as I don't know them, but we shouldn't start boasting about how many years of meetings in the home to make a point.) Yes it may be strange to some that have jump in 1/3 or ½ ways through a situation not really understanding the real nature of the situation. What I was inferring to, the very fact that there was and is history to the fact of what was going on. I suppose I could continue with synopses and inferences however those that are literate already understand.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 1, 2009 14:41:29 GMT -5
With all storms there is lightning and thunder. When the storm ends it is then quiet and peaceful. I have a friend who went and bought a large panel of barn sheet metal and laid outside her bedroom window so she could hear the rain on it! I think it was her way of drowning out the clashes of lightning and thunder! Hi, We have an acquaintence who was born and raised in a village in Indonesia. Her "shack" had a tin roof and their family slept "upstairs', right next to the tin. They had a great family relationship, and she says to this day, it is a great comfort to her , to lay under a roof with the rain pounding down on tin. She feels sooooo secure and it draws her close to the feelings of "home" . She is a peaceable girl herself, but I wonder Is it possible, that people who were raised in a tumultous , fighting, negative atmoshpere at home, actually CRAVE and CREATE this type of atmoshpere wherever they "roam'? The feeling of "belonging" does not happen in a quiet peaceful atmosphere, but in one where there is much conflict and turmoil and constant storms? Alvin
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Post by emy on Jan 1, 2009 16:17:55 GMT -5
I would say definitely possible. I think psychological studies would even support that, but I don't have any to quote.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 1, 2009 16:27:50 GMT -5
Even though I was being light-hearted in my response to the question about lightening and thunder.....I find that not all psychological studies cover every occurrance....I think that the debacle of the MI folks is something that only one thing can really be at the root and that is the one who bears the most responsibility and authority perhaps has a love of money for that is typically the root of all evil. And in turn, anyway in the pathway of that love is apt to suffer the side effects! JMHOP
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 2, 2009 6:09:34 GMT -5
I find it extremely strange that so much ephasis is put on the number of years a meeting is in a home. Does this indicate a "great" person? There are people who have had meetings in their home for many years, who are less than admirable. (this is not saying anything about this family, as I don't know them, but we shouldn't start boasting about how many years of meetings in the home to make a point.) Yes it may be strange to some that have jump in 1/3 or ½ ways through a situation not really understanding the real nature of the situation. What I was inferring to, the very fact that there was and is history to the fact of what was going on. I suppose I could continue with synopses and inferences however those that are literate already understand. Don't bight I was just saying. Alot of people do it.. instead of a person having a meeting, usually the number of years is mentioned!
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Post by jhjmr on Jan 2, 2009 12:58:15 GMT -5
It isn't the boasting about how many years there is a meeting in the home, it is the fact that the workers used that home for a meeting until they decided things weren't the way they like something and then it is removed. The meeting in a home, is only just what it says. A meeting held in a home. The spirit in the meeting and the love in the meeting is what counts. When a overseer decides to remove a meeting for his own lack of a right spirit, he then influences everyone that goes to that meeting with a wrong spirit. The love that was suppose to be in the group in the meeting, suddenly is changed and the spirit shown is not a desireable spirit to be with. The overseer then places those that are influenced by his spirit into a meeting that is under his spirit. Thus the whole ugly ball starts rolling. So, it isn't the fact that the meeting was removed, it is the love and spirit shown to those that had the meeting in their home and why was it removed. Therefore the hurt and illusion of what God's people should be like is hindered. And the faith and love everyone should be mingling with is of no more. God is the judge and jury of all. So beware of who controls your spirit and love and your faith! What happens to those that were in the meeting and worshipping together in that meeting, and then is told that the meeting is gone and they should go some where else. What type of a spirit goes with that person. Who do they then judge? Does the overseer have the right to judge others and then cause others to judge also to his likening? A lot to ponder on whom are you worshipping?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2009 3:56:36 GMT -5
Sometimes, if a meeting has been in a home for a long time, it can be a problem for folks to get a meeting moved to another home when the people living there aren't physically or psychologically up to it being there any longer.
"I don't feel up to it anymore" isn't regarded as an honorable reason for asking the meeting to be moved, within the cult.
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Post by rjs on Jan 3, 2009 8:00:44 GMT -5
JF would walk on his hands and knees to help someone find "the truth". However, meddling in matters only makes them worse. The professing folks are capable of handling things without too much overseer interference.
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Post by rjs on Jan 3, 2009 8:02:16 GMT -5
JF once exerted control over Glenn G. who is now overseer of North Dakota. I don't know if JF has any influence over North Dakota.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 3, 2009 11:03:27 GMT -5
"Is it possible, that people who were raised in a tumultous , fighting, negative atmoshpere at home, actually CRAVE and CREATE this type of atmoshpere wherever they "roam'? The feeling of "belonging" does not happen in a quiet peaceful atmosphere, but in one where there is much conflict and turmoil and constant storms? Alvin " Alvin, this lady I spoke about how one of the best functional homes growing up anyone could wish for. She just likes the sound of rain on a tin roof...perhaps because her grandparents had a tin roof on their home back when she was growing up!
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Post by Sharon on Jan 3, 2009 11:08:18 GMT -5
Sometimes, if a meeting has been in a home for a long time, it can be a problem for folks to get a meeting moved to another home when the people living there aren't physically or psychologically up to it being there any longer. "I don't feel up to it anymore" isn't regarded as an honorable reason for asking the meeting to be moved, within the cult. It is sad when a mtg. is just pressed onto someone who has said they don't feel able...but then it also is sad when that someone just keeps their mouth shut to the workers who could do something about that! I know that for it happened right here in this large city not so many years ago. The poor lady involved would NOT tell the workers she didn't feel able at all, even after being advised to by some of the friends. Finally it got so bad with her, that the friends had to tell the workers themselves. The lady was then soon put into the nursing home due to her mental degradations. I think the workers thought it would help her to have something to look forward to...but they can not be blamed because she would NOT talk to them about the stress the mtg. put on her! So we can not always blame the workers because the mtgs. are put or kept in homes unable to really have them! But for mtgs. to be jerked out of someone's home who wants them especially in the light of legal trouble, is questionable at the best! That's when the workers should be accountable!
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 3, 2009 11:15:57 GMT -5
But for mtgs. to be jerked out of someone's home who wants them especially in the light of legal trouble, is questionable at the best! That's when the workers should be accountable!
Actually, I think that is probably a good reason to remove the meetings from a home. BUT, if later the legal issues are resolved and no blame attached to where the meeting place was at (or the people that live there), it would also be correct to reinstate that meeting place to show that there is no longer an issue. It would be wrong to 'force' people to go to a meeting at a home where there were possible legal issues taking place I think. Scott
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Post by Sharon on Jan 3, 2009 12:12:37 GMT -5
But it is my understanding that the mtg. place in question had NOTHING to do with what has happened except by blood relation?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 3, 2009 12:55:35 GMT -5
But it is my understanding that the mtg. place in question had NOTHING to do with what has happened except by blood relation?I was making a comment in general. I'm sure that there are conflicting reports concerning the issues in Michigan. IF the overseer felt there was a need to remove the meeting from the home in Michigan due to legal issues, and then later it was found that there were no legal issues, the meeting should have been reinstated. Just my opinion of course. Scott
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Post by Sharon on Jan 3, 2009 13:23:07 GMT -5
You're right Scott...for as it is it is the only place the young family can meet together to worship due to the legal restrictions put upon the children! Maybe God's Will in all of it so that those young folks can still be taught to worship whereever in spirit and in truth....thank you for the thoughts of the legal issues!
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Post by jhjmr on Jan 3, 2009 21:19:58 GMT -5
It is wonderful that Jerome would walk on his hands and knees to help someone see the truth, but can't see things the way they should be seen himself. Controlling is not the truth. Gossip and lies are not the truth. A evil mean spirit is not the truth. If you were preaching the truth and those traits were known to the person listening, they sure wouldn't listen for long. Those traits are only shown to those who belong and are suppose to be subject to the overseer.
The meeting was not removed because of legal matters. It was removed from the grandparents home because they wanted to help their family and not be against them as they were told to do. They were very upset about how the poor children were doing and that the family had been axed and that was not to the likeing of the overseer. So, cross the boss and bye-bye. The talk and gossip that was spread was plain and simple malice. The nasty spirit that was shown was malice and still is this very day by many including the overseer. May God have mercy!!
The meeting could be returned would be a miracle. Only the disciples could perform miracles. Is that telling you anything? You may go through the system, pay your dues and think you are wonderful, but only in your eyes. Man doesn't have powers granted to them. Only God has powers and he will see through everything and bless those faithful without any overseers blessing.
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Post by Sharon on Jan 3, 2009 21:34:30 GMT -5
It is wonderful that Jerome would walk on his hands and knees to help someone see the truth, but can't see things the way they should be seen himself. Controlling is not the truth. Gossip and lies are not the truth. A evil mean spirit is not the truth. If you were preaching the truth and those traits were known to the person listening, they sure wouldn't listen for long. Those traits are only shown to those who belong and are suppose to be subject to the overseer. The meeting was not removed because of legal matters. It was removed from the grandparents home because they wanted to help their family and not be against them as they were told to do. They were very upset about how the poor children were doing and that the family had been axed and that was not to the likeing of the overseer. So, cross the boss and bye-bye. The talk and gossip that was spread was plain and simple malice. The nasty spirit that was shown was malice and still is this very day by many including the overseer. May God have mercy!! The meeting could be returned would be a miracle. Only the disciples could perform miracles. Is that telling you anything? You may go through the system, pay your dues and think you are wonderful, but only in your eyes. Man doesn't have powers granted to them. Only God has powers and he will see through everything and bless those faithful without any overseers blessing. I'm sorry, jmjhr, I had thought it was because the courts had said that none of the workers and friends were not to have anything or be around the young children! But the reasons you state above even are worse! My heart still bleeds for them very much. I got an invitation to move to another area that is troubled and I said I would pray about it, but m heart questions about the older folks there in MI. how much they need love and care these days! I feel like I'm being pulled into several directions where the need for love and care is so desparate! All I can do is pray for them with a heart full of love and tenderness for their tender and sore souls! I really admire them actually...continuing to have a mtg. themselves even though they've been publically decimated as far as having the rights to have a mtg.?
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Post by jphillips on Jan 5, 2009 14:23:36 GMT -5
Greg H. is a overseer, with a head overseer. JF put him in the position when he took him from Mi. to Ky. But forsay, Greg is not the controller. JF would not leave Mi. willing because, yes he would lose his clout, but he also travels constantly between Ky . and Mi. which is convenient for him. But, the spirit a person has follows them, so if the spirit is wrong, they will find the same situation as in Mi. It isn't because he was from Mi., he only became the way he is when he became overseer with power and control. That personality follows you where you go. The control must be removed and a person humbled before that could be removed and lets see, he went through the system, he payed his dues, now he deserves the power. He also controls the money situation in two states. Now cut off someones power of the money and you have a mad man. So, who would want that person to control their state? Besides, do away with the overseer position and now you are talking. Get back to serving God, now you are talking. Quit influencing others to show evil spirits. When the overseer is worshipped, and don't even tell me that isn't true, then you have made a monster. Now, how do you take the monster out of the man?? So JF is overseer over two states now?
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Post by degem on Jan 5, 2009 14:31:06 GMT -5
It is my understanding that Greg H. is the head overseer of Kentucky.
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