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Post by Annan on Dec 9, 2008 11:42:10 GMT -5
I watched a movie years ago where a young boy was diagnosed with diabetes. His parents believed God would cure him. The boy died. Then the family believed God would raise their son from the dead. That didn’t happen either.
In the end of the movie the mother she and her husband were trying to force God to reward their faith in Him. She said that was where their failure was.
Has anyone ever heard the workers/friends preach or talk about faith healing or hands-on healing? Just wondering what the church’s stance is on this issue, if any.
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Post by kencoolidge on Dec 13, 2008 8:57:47 GMT -5
I do not remember any worker speaking openly about it in meeting. However in private it was sometimes alluded to as something the worldly churches were doing. I never remember anyone asking for laying on of hands or healing from the workers.
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Post by nitro on Dec 13, 2008 9:57:28 GMT -5
Cooney preached for the reinstatement of the poverty principle and following this Adam Hutchingson, the Australian overseer began to support him and a large convention at Guilford, Sydney was organized in order to hear his message. 16
However, he lost most of his support when he called attention to the little regarded message of Matthew 10 and Luke 9 to "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, and cast out devils." 17 As a demonstration of his ability to do this "He advised a sick, young woman to desire a cure, and to read, meditate and pray in preparation for healing. Taking with him two junior male workers he anointed her with olive oil and uttered words. But the sick girl remained ailing and worried. Edward Cooney gave it up and left her to think that perhaps she failed or came short in some way in faith." 18
Workers in New Zealand found this meeting intolerable and banned from their house meetings any member who associated with Cooney. Upon Cooney's arrival to North America, Jack Carroll, the overseer there, decided that Cooney was not to be heard in his territory and advised his members not to attend Cooney's Seattle mission. A complete ban was then placed on him throughout the United States and Canada. At this point William Irvine once again stepped in, summoning Cooney to Ireland. When Cooney chose to heed the request of the fallen leader he was promptly excommunicated from the movement.19
On October 12, 1928 a meeting was held in Lurgen Ireland to finalize justification for Cooney's dismissal. An agreement was drawn up to make the actions of the workers more uniform. It stated the following: ..................................................................
nitro
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Post by Annan on Dec 13, 2008 11:38:21 GMT -5
Thank you for that information. Much appreciated.
~ Annan
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Dec 13, 2008 12:42:10 GMT -5
Annan, They argue that laying on of hands and praying the prayer of faith was for the early church only. Not for today. There are other threads on this subject here.
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Post by izzi on Dec 22, 2008 8:44:11 GMT -5
That's one of the reasons why I felt so confident about leaving 2x2's , Annan. I started healing and I didn't see them doing what Jesus said we should do. They had all kinds of excuses, like, the state of the body is not important, salvation is.
Mind you, one think I like about the 2x2's - in South Africa, anyway - is that they are not against healing modalities such as reflexology, aromatherapy, reiki, bodytalk etc. In fact, several are practitioners. In charismatic churches, on the other hand, these modalities are considered demonic. (!?)
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Post by eyedeetentee on Dec 22, 2008 22:53:35 GMT -5
I went to a masseuse once who, after the session, placed one hand between my back and the table and the other hand above my abdomen. Neither hand touched me. She held her hands there for maybe a minute. I saw no point in that whatsoever. She said that was the holistic part of my massage. I never returned. I have since learned to look for 'holistic' in ads. When I see it, I know where not to go.
A good massage is the best form of relaxation and relief for me. I sure do not want it fouled by someone thinking they can do me good by sending a certain aura through or over me (or whatever it is they believe).
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Post by Annan on Dec 23, 2008 15:44:14 GMT -5
izzi: My daughter always shunned my healing techniques till her doctor told her I could do her a lot of good. Just recently we had a Reiki, Shiatsu, and guided meditation session that went very well and is helping to relieve several issues for her. @eyedeetendee: Holistic healing is not for everyone. It is a life-long dedication to healing the mind, body, and soul. All I can say is... works for me!
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Post by izzi on Jan 3, 2009 5:20:40 GMT -5
eyeeetendee,
That very healing technique has worked really well for me, for people I have treated. Come see me in SA!
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Post by rational on Jan 4, 2009 1:17:31 GMT -5
@eyedeetendee: Holistic healing is not for everyone. It is a life-long dedication to healing the mind, body, and soul. All I can say is... works for me! The question is - Is holistic healing for anyone? Has it ever been demonstrated that it is shows better results than what would be expected due to the placebo effect? One thing I have noticed by those who engage in holistic healing is that they tend to move rather quickly from one method to another. I have friends who proclaim the wondrous benefits of the treatment du jour but it only seems to last for a limited time and then they are off seeking the next magical cure. I have a feeling that as the placebo effect dwindles for one method they have to move on and reset their expectations. I have friends who swore by Air-Born and claimed to have avoided colds while they took it but when the product was forced to issue rebates because of their false claims most of them moved on to the next cold cure.
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Post by hebrew12andverse23 on Jan 4, 2009 2:55:57 GMT -5
I fully believe in holistic healing. The pharmaceutical industry is extremely corrupt. Most of their medications are poison. If you stay on them, you will get sick. Revelations 21 and 22 mentions that there will be sorcery in the last days and how heaven will be without them. I believe we are in the last days. The word "sorceries" there is translated from the Greek word "pharmakeia." "Pharmakeia" is derived from "pharmakeus" and means medications, pharmacy by the extents of magic. "Pharmakeus" means the druggist or poisoning. Today, the mainstream medical community has the habit of deceiving people to take their medications. If one has read Act and other parts of the Bible, one might understand that sorcery includes deception and manipulation of the mind. Also look at our medical symbol of the two serents wrapped around a staff with wings on top. That is called the caduceus. It is not the Staff of Asclepius. That is one serpents around a staff without wings. The caduceus was the staff of Hermes. It was the symbol of merchants, commerce, thieves, and alchemy. Only the United States uses the caduceus for the symbol of medicine. After all, wasn't it the serpent who deceived Eve?Both are from heathen nations. With all that said. Our main medical community is full of ( and admits to by using the symbol) sorcery. {Warning: Don't attempt to get off medications without a professional. Some have dangerous withdrawal symptoms}
Many "holistic" companies are also deceivers. Many know that there "pills" do not work. The man who wrote Natural Cures They Don't Want You to Know About said to never attempt to treat yourself. He says to go to a licensed health-care practitioner such as a homeopath, Naturopath, Herbalist etc. Research is really required for holistic healing. Especially on your own. It seems that they need to do more research on the cold and immune system before they trust another pill company. Holistic healing requires time, research, diet, and habit changes. Not a pill of mineral and herbs. Teas are good. Spices are good. Try to get all nutrients from foods and herbs that are not in pills (tinctures, teas, dishes etc.) It does help if you know what your doing from your own research. There is NO Miracle Pill that will cure you alone. The medical community is right on that, but I believe anything is curable.
Now concerning faith healing. One worker told me that she believes if God can make her, God can heal. But enough of what the workers say, the Bible is more right than a worker.
I Corinthian Ch. 12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word f wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts f healing by the same Spirit;
...
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thridly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
James Ch. 5
13 Is any among you aflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
I recommend reading the entire chapter of I Corinthians 12. This shows that God has intended to have healing in the church. But if it is not believing in it and forbids the spiritual gifts, then there won't be any. Its just that simple. God cannot work unless there is faith in it.
There is nothing scriptural about the spiritual gifts being only for the early church. If we are to follow what Jesus said to do about going two by two, then we must do the things he told them to do when they went two by two. Only the Holy Ghost can bring forth those with the spiritual gifts. I've visited churches that believed in it and heard many talk about cancer and other illnesses mysteriously disappearing. The Holy Ghost has to be present. Without its presence, there are no spiritual gifts. What is the church without the Holy Ghost that was sent from Jesus?
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Post by Annan on Jan 4, 2009 10:13:17 GMT -5
@eyedeetendee: Holistic healing is not for everyone. It is a life-long dedication to healing the mind, body, and soul. All I can say is... works for me! The question is - Is holistic healing for anyone? Has it ever been demonstrated that it is shows better results than what would be expected due to the placebo effect? One thing I have noticed by those who engage in holistic healing is that they tend to move rather quickly from one method to another. I have friends who proclaim the wondrous benefits of the treatment du jour but it only seems to last for a limited time and then they are off seeking the next magical cure. I have a feeling that as the placebo effect dwindles for one method they have to move on and reset their expectations. I have friends who swore by Air-Born and claimed to have avoided colds while they took it but when the product was forced to issue rebates because of their false claims most of them moved on to the next cold cure. The failure of holistic healing is not the healing itself, but the dedication of the person seeking to be healed. Buried emotions make us sick. Healing the root cause of illness is an undertaking most people don't want to endure. It requires a willingness and dedication to face deep seated issues in our lives. Otherwise it becomes simply a band-aid fix. I have experienced this healing. It has changed my life. I am now a healer myself. While I do treat people, my focus is on dogs. I volunteer at a local animal shelter and have saved a number of dogs from euthanasia that were thought to be unable to be rehabilitated. I know first hand that energy healing works.
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Post by rational on Jan 4, 2009 15:51:05 GMT -5
I fully believe in holistic healing. OK Not relevant. In excess, many things are harmful. Would you consider, for example, penicillin to be a poison? Millions have used it with great success. If your appendix ruptured and you developed peritonitis would you go for penicillin G and clindamycin with an aminoglycoside from the big drug companies or would you let someone align your chakras? I have a feeling holistic treatment works best where there is nothing actually wrong or when the ailment is something like the common cold that will last a week without treatment or only about 7 days with treatment. Generally speaking, the bible is not a great source of medical treatments. Try treating gonorrhea as indicated by the bible. As far as the end of days, this is not the first century that has been thought. This is true. Historically the treatments did more harm than good. Looking back on it, trying to cure syphilis using arsenic was not a good thing. I guess you could look at the druggist as a killer. There certainly have been cases when the side effects were down-played. But you can't dismiss the fact that people with diseases like malaria and diabetes have been helped by modern drugs. This brings to mind holistic medicine. Remember the study the 12 year old girl did at the Therapeutic Touch convention a few years back? The practitioners talked about being able to sense the "energy" from the human body and then "smooth" it with their hands. They all claimed to be able to sense the energy. Yet when tested by making the examination through a hole in a shield, they could not even detect if the subject was a real person or a manikin at a rate any better than chance. You are just a little twisted here. A caduceus is just a staff of a herald. The medical profession in the US only started using the Caduceus of Mercury in the 19th century. The symbol was used by printers in the 16th and 17th centuries because it was the Staff of Hermes (Mercury) the messenger god, and therefore a deliverer of information. Many 19th century medical texts displayed the symbol. In time it became associated with medicine. It was not until after 1900 that it became the official insignia of the medical branch of the U.S. army. And hence the need for double blind trials and studies to be sure the treatment actually works. Why do you think there are so few studies on alternative medical treatments that show they are effective? From this I am guessing that your exposure to people with some of the more extreme diseases has been limited. Take rabis, for example. More than 50,000 people a year die of the disease. In all of history there are only 2 known cases of survival where the patient had not been given a rabies-specific treatment either before or after the onset of the symptoms. Some things are not curable. Back in the real world, what should be done when parents refuse traditional treatment for their minor children and use prayer instead and the result is death?
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Post by rational on Jan 4, 2009 15:59:19 GMT -5
Buried emotions make us sick. And here I thought it was viruses and bacteria. In one of the cases I mentioned, peritonitis, the root cause is often a bacterial infection caused by peptic ulcer, ulcerative colitis, appendicitis, strangulated obstruction, diverticulitis, or a stab or gunshot wound. You should contact the people with the $1+ million reward if you can demonstrate it. Odd that no one has been able to do this.
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Post by lin on Jan 4, 2009 17:47:23 GMT -5
I could believe in faith healing,if it didn't have a time limit on it. Even if healed we still have to die. It says it is appointed unto men once to die. If we could truly heal we wouldn't have any trouble getting people to believe it
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Post by hebrew12andverse23 on Jan 5, 2009 1:51:50 GMT -5
I said "If you stay on them you will get sick." Many doctors keep people on them instead of trying to find ways to make their patients well. That what doctors used to do a long time ago. If you were to stay on penicillin, yes, it would poison you. I have a pharmaceutical book with what conditions medications are prescribed for, side effects, and other information. Many have long lists of side effects. Like certain nasal sprays that are supposed to relieve eye symptoms in allergies can cause cataracts and/or glaucoma. If my appendix was ruptured, I would seek emergency medical care. The fact is not the temporary treatment such as an anti-biotic to kill a rage of bacteria(just as long as probiotics are taken to replace good bacteria) but the long term prescription. Both my parents are diagnosed diabetics. My father is on medication for it, he's been on it for about 7-8 years. He still has diabetes. He tried nopal one time and it did pretty good at regulating his sugar level. As for my mother, her blood sugar normalized after she got of over 10 of the medications she was on. The medicine is not designed to relieve the root cause. But if your sugar is 400, just use common sense and get it down with the medications then look to get off of it with professional help. Did you know that there are no medications whatsoever to kill the EBV virus? The only compounds known to kill them are in herbs. Herbs can be a symptom cover up also if that is all one is using them for. There are many every day who receive the expensive, modern, highly extortionate priced treatment for cancer die anyway. Doctors blame the cancer. I say both. Not too long ago my father worked as a security guard for the recent built cancer center in my area. The room where the chemicals for chemotherapy reads "Caution: Hazardous Chemical. Authorized Personnel Only." The Gerson institute ( www.gerson.org ) has had many wonderful cures for the cancer just by using trained M.D. on organic juicing. Not too many doctors mention photodynamic therapy which is must safer or LasMed Inc. The immune system also destroys cancer. Even with the medical-care in this country, people still die frequently from disease. If not, many people just suffer with it while many doctors who either willfully or ignorantly do nothin more. Modern chemical can help in emergencies. They have even kept people alive during them.I cannot deny that. I would use medications in an emergency myself, but I would not willfully submit myself to stay on them after the emergency trouble has ceased. Something is wrong in the body. I would research, and even try to get professional help on nutrition/natural treatments and gradually(if needed) get off the medications while my body is healing. I mentioned deception. Its not the fact that use of the drugs is sorcery, but it the deception that is used with it. The love of money is usually accompanied with most modern practitioners. A good doctor will search for a cure, pray for the person, and find a way to get him off the maintenance. You're right. The caduceus was used as a symbol for printing. It was also the symbol for alchemy and commerce. Mercury was also the god of commerce. Some of these occult and witchcraft stores carry some. Until the U.S, the caduceus was never a symbol for medicine. There have been quite a few studies to show that herbs and other natural methods are effective. It's just not reported on as much. There should be more though. The heads of the medical community would not be out of the job if they found a cure for every disease, they just would not be able to support their lavish lifestyle and will have to live moderately like most people. The main problem is the deception and love for money. If they would just combine modern care, nutrition, herbal therapy, syntonics, acupuncture, alexander technique ect. instead of closing up and saying medications is the only effective treatment, things will be much better. Faith healing can happen. It has happened and still happens. I believe we should show willingness to help ourselves also. How can God promise you a good crop of food if you don't plant the seeds?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Jan 15, 2009 17:25:29 GMT -5
[There is nothing scriptural about the spiritual gifts being only for the early church. If we are to follow what Jesus said to do about going two by two, then we must do the things he told them to do when they went two by two. Only the Holy Ghost can bring forth those with the spiritual gifts. I've visited churches that believed in it and heard many talk about cancer and other illnesses mysteriously disappearing. The Holy Ghost has to be present. Without its presence, there are no spiritual gifts. What is the church without the Holy Ghost that was sent from Jesus?]
hebrews to me you are like a breath of fresh air......Thank God, at last someone who knows what I talk about..Amen a thousand times and more to your statement.
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Post by theJAG on Jan 16, 2009 4:06:17 GMT -5
Interesting that prayer meetings, the laying on of hands, and casting out devils are not practiced today among the 2x2. Especially when increasing numbers are dying of cancer, plunging the depths of depression and battling mental illness. One South African ex-worker is on a campaign to get the 50% of workers (his figure) on anti-depressants, off their medication and back to a state of joy and peace.
Good question Annan, in my direct experience (x2) any suggestion of any of the above is actively discouraged. I have said for years that we (workers included) have more faith in doctors than we do in God and this saddens me. On the holistic - allopathy scale I am somewhere about Heb12:23 (above) in that we need both.
I am inspired by Jesus healing people simply through touch and especially Peter outside the temple that day with the cripple. Which is more to the glory of God, a $250,000 surgery and a life of pain killers and orthotics, or a prayer made in faith: "Walk"?
Getting back to your child with diabetes example, was it a lack of faith or a pancreas pickled in high-fructose corn syrup? Lord increase my faith...
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Post by rational on Jan 16, 2009 20:24:14 GMT -5
I said "If you stay on them you will get sick." Many doctors keep people on them instead of trying to find ways to make their patients well. That what doctors used to do a long time ago. If you were to stay on penicillin, yes, it would poison you. Sorry. You are just wrong. Many people have been on prophylactic courses of penicillin with few, if any, ill effects. Safety of Long Term Therapy with Penicillin and Penicillin DerivativesOf course. When a drug is approved for treatment all known side effects that were noted during the trials have to be published and included with the packaging. Humans are complex and not everyone reacts the same to all things. we all eat things that, it treated as drugs, would prevent them from being marketed. There are many natural chemicals found in foods which are pre-carcinogenic. For example, hydrazines in mushrooms, or the aflatoxin found in peanuts. In addition, by cooking more are created like the pyrolysis products produced while cooking meat. Peritonitis can take a long time to cure. Given that untreated it is almost always fatal, wouldn't you continue on the drug until the infection had been eliminated, regardless of the length of time? The medication is not given to cure diabetes. It is to regulate. Of course, there are no long term studies that show nopal does anything at all for the condition but there are some side effects: Abdominal fullness, acute monoarthritis, adverse effects on liver and spleen, blockages of the esophagus or intestines, dermatitis, headache, increase in stool volume and frequency, keratoconjunctivitis, low colonic obstruction, lowered the blood pressure, mild diarrhea, nausea, osmylogenic asthma, rectal perforation, rhinitis (runny or congested nose), synovitis (type of arthritis). How do these compare to the medication he is on? And which works better? I don't know what type of diabetes your mom has so determining the root cause is not possible. If she has Type 1 diabetes how do you think you can get back the cells in the pancreas that have been destroyed, causing the lack of insulin? If she has Type 2 diabetes how would you treat her to get the receptors on cells to react to the normal stimulation of insulin? This is correct although there are 2 human trials under way. I assume you are talking about saponins. Currently they are sold as food supplements so there is no need for clinical tests. I have used saponins from sweet leaf tree occasionally as a sweetner. But what will you think once the compound has been extracted and is sold as a prescription drug? Remember that the drug digitalis is an extract of foxglove. If you had a heart condition would you purchase your digitalis from a herb supplier, only guessing at the potency, of from a regulated pharmaceutical company? And there are many who receive treatment and the cancer goes into remission. Tanks holding carbon dioxide have the same labels. Chemotherapy drugs do interfere with cell division. That is one of the common means of attacking cancer. You certainly would not want them to be ingested by just anyone. You need to learn a little more about exactly what the methods of treatment are. This is not a new methodology. Gerson Method
Proponents of the Gerson diet claim that cancer can be cured only if toxins are eliminated from the body. They recommend "detoxification" with frequent coffee enemas and a low-sodium diet that includes more than a gallon a day of juices made from fruits, vegetables, and raw calf's liver. This method was developed by Max Gerson, a German-born physician who emigrated to the United States in 1936 and practiced in New York City until his death in 1959. Gerson therapy is still available at Hospital Meridien in Tijuana, Mexico and, since February 1997, at the Gerson Healing Center in Sedona, Arizona.
Gerson therapy is still actively promoted by his daughter, Charlotte Gerson, through lectures, talk show appearances, and publications of the Gerson Institute in Bonita, California. Gerson protocols have included liver extract injections, ozone enemas, "live cell therapy," thyroid tablets, royal jelly capsules, linseed oil, castor oil enemas, clay packs, laetrile, and vaccines made from influenza virus and killed Staphylococcus aureus bacteria.
In 1947, the NCI reviewed ten cases selected by Dr. Gerson and found his report unconvincing. That same year, a committee appointed by the New York County Medical Society reviewed records of 86 patients, examined ten patients, and found no evidence that the Gerson method had value in treating cancer. An NCI analysis of Dr. Gerson's book A Cancer Therapy: Results of Fifty Cases concluded in 1959 that most of the cases failed to meet the criteria (such as histologic verification of cancer) for proper evaluation of a cancer case. A recent review of the Gerson treatment rationale concluded: (a) the "poisons" Gerson claimed to be present in processed foods have never been identified, (b) frequent coffee enemas have never been shown to mobilize and remove poisons from the liver and intestines of cancer patients, (c) there is no evidence that any such poisons are related to the onset of cancer, (d) there is no evidence that a "healing" inflammatory reaction exists that can seek out and kill cancer cells.
Between 1980 and 1986 at least 13 patients treated with Gerson therapy were admitted to San Diego area hospitals with Campylobacter fetus sepsis attributable to the liver injections. None of the patients was cancer-free, and one died of his malignancy within a week. Five were comatose due to low serum sodium levels, presumably as a result of the "no sodium" Gerson dietary regimen. As a result, Gerson personnel modified their techniques for handling raw liver products and biologicals. However, the Gerson approach still has considerable potential for harm. Deaths also have been attributed to the coffee enemas administered at the Tijuana clinic.
Charlotte Gerson claims that treatment at the clinic has produced high cure rates for many cancers. In 1986, however, investigators learned that patients were not monitored after they left the facility. Although clinic personnel later said they would follow their patients systematically, there is no published evidence that they have done so. A naturopath who visited the Gerson Clinic in 1983 was able to track 21 patients over a 5-year period (or until death) through annual letters or phone calls. At the 5-year mark, only one was still alive (but not cancer-free); the rest had succumbed to their cancer .[/color] You might be talking to the wrong doctors. The use of specific wavelengths of light with a photosensitizer drug is a widely used treatment for cancers. LasMed is used to treat a variety of visual disorders. And it is true that the immune system can destroy cancers. A friend of ours went in for treatment for a cancer on her chest wall only to discover that it had all but been eliminated. Not sure of your point here. Yes people die. And some die from the treatment. But over all, modern medicine is prolonging life. And then there are the people who can really be classified as hypochondriacs. It is tough to treat someone when there is nothing wrong. Perhaps an example would be helpful of a condition that would be an emergency but then would still be present but not an emergency. So it is your contention that your body can heal any disease on its own, even though the chance of recovery from some diseases is very close to zero. I assume you mean companies like AirBorn that stated their product would do a lot of things that was not true. Or do you mean the food suppliment companies selling the diet pills that contained compounds that can cause seizures, heart attack or stroke? A good doctor might be an atheist. The love of money is no greater in the accredited pharmaceutical companies than it is in the health food supplement industry. In fact, I believe I could demonstrate there is more greed and misrepresentation in the health food industry. In just the preparations to cure ED! Exactly right. Can you point to a single peer reviewed study? One that was not self-published? There should be but when the tests/studies show the herb to be ineffective there is not much incentive to spread the word. I know a fair number of doctors. They all work as many hours as I do and I have never heard any of them mention that they hope cures for diseases are not found. I think you would have difficulty supporting your claim. Many doctors do combine therapies but most will only do so if there has been some proof that the methods work. For example the Alexander has several supporting studies but syntonics (better known as color therapy) has no data to back up the claims made. Yet oddly, no one can actually demonstrate this to be true. Millions have been offered but no one has claimed the reward. How can you get a good crop of food if you don't plant the seeds? No need to bring god into it.
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Post by moralityagain on Jun 24, 2009 22:23:49 GMT -5
A Baptist preacher once told me the following joke.
My brother is crippled and has been from birth and walks on two crutches. A traveling preacher came to town and said he was going to be able to heal the lame and etc.. So, we went down to the meeting and listened to the preacher. When it was time to call people with ailments up to the stage, my brother stood in line and waited his turn. When the preacher finally got to him he muttered some things over my brother and all of a sudden he threw his right crutch away from him. Next, the preacher muttered some more things over him and suddenly he threw away his left crutch. Amazed, the person who the story was being told to said "what happened then"? The story teller said "well he fell on his ass, he's crippled you know".
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Post by rational on Jun 25, 2009 19:18:26 GMT -5
Well you must bring God into it---where do the seeds come from--- In any case the wind blows and seeds get blown around--bunnies and birds eat stuff and their poo spread seeds around. Wild things of all sorts spread seeds around. Then it rains and the seed get stuck to the ground. The insects like butterflys, bees and such spread pollen around when needed. So you really are not required to plant seeds unless you are making a field of the same stuff or gardening. Never the less you still don't know where the seeds first came from. Actually, the development of plants and seeds is well documented. Just because you do not understand that development does not mean it is an unknown to everyone. You have been reading those creationist sites again. I doubt you could find an evolutionist that would support your statement. FYI - that would be a very good example of the straw man fallacy.
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Post by Annan on Jul 5, 2009 13:24:48 GMT -5
I could believe in faith healing,if it didn't have a time limit on it. Even if healed we still have to die. It says it is appointed unto men once to die. If we could truly heal we wouldn't have any trouble getting people to believe it I have a friend who's mother was treated for lung cancer only to be told she she was incurable. She called Billy Graham and they prayed together. Her doctors can give no explanation as to why there is no longer evidence of her lung cancer. I can only believe her faith/belief made her well. If as you say, faith healing has a time limit as men die eventually, then why seek healing of any kind? If we see a doctor, do we not have faith that medical treatment can make us well?
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