ddowdy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by ddowdy on Nov 20, 2008 1:56:34 GMT -5
Rational wrote,
"First, the US was founded mostly by deists, not christians.
You state that the separation of any particular church and the affairs of state is a good thing and then go on to lament the fact that christianity has been hijacked. What makes you think a nation that puts its faith in the christian god(s) is any stronger than those that do not?"
Sorry to debunk your meandering mind my psuedointellectual friend but, despite the efforts of those who would like to rewrite history the U.S. was indeed founded as a Christian nation. Secondly, what makes me think that a nation that puts its faith in God is any stronger than those that do not is the incontrovertible evidence of my own country the U.S. which was a stronger more cohesive nation when more of our citizens had a stronger faith in God. You might also look at our friends in the decaying nations of Europe. I believe the decay of those nations can be correlated to the advancement of secularism within them.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 20, 2008 1:57:46 GMT -5
... chest sunk in, head bowed, 'yeah, what the Bible said'
That was funny though eyeedeteentee, reminds me of a skit from 'Monty Python' when the guy gets his arms and legs cut off, and still refuses to give up.
That is how the WAR at the end of time will be, with Satan and his cohorts against the LORD. One sided war, but then what do you expect from Satan and those he fooled. An actual war?
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 20, 2008 2:30:55 GMT -5
Dowdy wrote: Sorry to debunk your meandering mind my psuedointellectual friend but, despite the efforts of those who would like to rewrite history the U.S. was indeed founded as a Christian nation. Secondly, what makes me think that a nation that puts its faith in God is any stronger than those that do not is the incontrovertible evidence of my own country the U.S. which was a stronger more cohesive nation when more of our citizens had a stronger faith in God. You might also look at our friends in the decaying nations of Europe. I believe the decay of those nations can be correlated to the advancement of secularism within them.
Amen my brother, amen. I lived and tasted that decay, and I can tell you how that cancer spread with Russia wherever or whatever country they took over. When things didn't work out for them, they would starve entire villages, taking their wheat, livestock and food and if anyone disagreed that communism didn't work, were shot on the spot. Some were shot just for the hell of it.
I visited Hungary in 1982 under Russian occupation, and I was driving a friend to Balaton Lake, it was nighttime, and I was cruising at about 120km h when I saw a little light about the size of a firefly in the middle of the road. My friend yelled at me to stop. I looked at him confused and asked him why? 'STOP!' he screamed, and I slowed down pretty good until I saw a soldier in the middle of the road with a burned out flashlight (just a flicker left) summoning us to stop. It was a Russian soldier doing his routine passport inspection. If it wasn't for my friend, I would have been a murderer and surely shot for running a Russian soldier over.
To buy a car that was made out of cardboard, you had to pay for it first, then wait 8 years for delivery, and it would run a week, and when you take it back to the dealer to get the carburetor fixed, you get it back with a used broken transmission. You take that in, and, .... well, you get the picture...
This is what I cannot believe about this once GREAT country of ours, we seen the USSR collapse and with it all the other countries they occupied, and yet, here we going right into it head on. No GOD! Yeeaaahhh... no God, no Bible, ... yeaaahhh... So sad, it breaks my heart.
Before all of America went 'No Bible, No God!' people should have moved to countries for a year that were atheistic, and see if they would like it? There were a few who have, and did not like it a bit. The begged to move back here.
Well, here we go again, eccept this time it is the LORD who will put an end to all this madness. For now, let's just love whomever we can, and pray they will turn Christian before it is too late. This is my true prayer for all those who do not know Christ here on TMB. May God open your eyes. In Jesus name: Odon.
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 12:51:18 GMT -5
Can you back this up with some external reference? The Constitution is the document that makes the US what it is. Can you find a reference to christianity? Or, more to the point, a reference to god? Consider some of the leaders. Jefferson, Washington Franklin Adams Hamilton (at the time of the constitution) I await your reply. Can you give a time frame when this was the case? How do you measure people's faith? And in which god do you think people should have faith? You mean those countries that are theistic? Iran? Afghanistan? Or the UK? France? Germany? Or Georgia? Georgia is organized as a organized as a unitary, secular, presidential republic yet is showed a 12% GDP growth rate Not a theistic country. Not crumbling.
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 12:54:16 GMT -5
Amen my brother, amen. I lived and tasted that decay, and I can tell you how that cancer spread with Russia wherever or whatever country they took over. There are governments that worked and those that didn't. The belief in god(s) had little, if anything, to do with their success or failure.
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 13:09:59 GMT -5
Interesting take on the purchase and use of the swords. Of course, Jesus might have had another reason to get swords. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. But this can probably be explained away as an allegory. If He can heal a withered arm, He can also do the opposite. And with no legs to walk on and no arms to hold their weapons with, it would not be much of a fight, wouldn't you say? I don't know. Swords are made of iron and we know that god was ineffective against the chariots of iron.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 20, 2008 13:59:49 GMT -5
Everyone should see this DOCUMENTARY, and buy the video or DVD to remind yourself where we came from, why we became the greatest country on earth and why we shall fall.
'AMERICAS GODLY HERITAGE' 1995
David Barton
Look under Documentary on Hystorical Documents, Faith and Spirituality
You can watch it on NETFLIX Instant video
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 20, 2008 16:33:42 GMT -5
Interesting take on the purchase and use of the swords.
Of course, Jesus might have had another reason to get swords.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
But this can probably be explained away as an allegory.
As it is written that the only people to understand the scriptures are the ones to whom it was 'given' to understand. It is those that are mindful of heavenly things and are not stuck here on this physical realm as you are my friend Rational.
Luke 22:36-38 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end."
38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." NKJV
(Like two swords would be enough to go and fight a war, come on my friend Rational, Jesus was a KING, what king would limit his men to take only two swords? Read it again and see the reason to even take those two.)
Luke 22:49-53 49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?"
(Jesus NEVER said; "Yes, go and strike")
50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him.
(Yep, what a war that would be, an army of men with a limit of two swords, and if anyone actually uses those swords, the KING would hurry to heal it immediately and tell his soldier; 'put that thing away before you hurt someone else. Didn't I tell you that he that fights by the sword shall die by the sword? Now how could you make that to mean Jesus wanted to start a physical war? We are missing the point, my dear friend)
52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53 When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness." NKJV
John 18:11 11 So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?" NKJV
Rational: Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
But this can probably be explained away as an allegory
No allegory, Jesus meant what He said. To me, it is so simple, but then I'm just a simple man. This is where God separates those that cling on to human ‘wisdom’ and makes them feel like all that they have learned is nothing but foolishness. As I said before, we cannot attain heaven (a Spiritual realm) with our physical mind or body. The understanding of the Bible is given to those who accept its teaching and NOT to those that spend their entire life trying to prove it’s stupid and meaningless.
It is GIVEN, and you or I cannot MAKE God give us that understanding. We have to take on a receiving position, emptying our minds hearts and even souls of the worldly things. Only then it comes pouring down, spilling over to a point that even a dummy like me cannot stop talking about.
SWORD = WORD
It seems you are stuck in this physical realm which is NOTHING, but a result of Gods Word. Everything you see will disappear, but Gods Word will remain forever. The sword is really only a spoken word of the Creator.
In Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
is obviously and without a shadow of a doubt talking about Gods WORD. Word=Sword, the REAL sword, the everlasting sword;
Heb 4:12-13 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. NKJV
Rev 19:21 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. NKJV
Rev 19:15-16 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. NKJV
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 17:05:22 GMT -5
Everyone should see this DOCUMENTARY, and buy the video or DVD to remind yourself where we came from, why we became the greatest country on earth and why we shall fall. 'AMERICAS GODLY HERITAGE' 1995 David BartonLook under Documentary on Hystorical Documents, Faith and Spirituality You can watch it on NETFLIX Instant video After watching the video you might want to look at the facts behind the ideas. While Barton didn't provide much in the form of reference to check his facts others have: Critique of David Barton's "America's Godly Heritage"Mything In Action:David Barton's 'Questionable Quotes'[/i][/url] Sects, Lies and Videotape - David Barton's Distorted History[/i][/url] The Danger of David Barton[/i][/url] (includes a video as explanation)Misquoting By The Religious Right[/i][/url] David BartonFrom the above site: David Barton is a Christian fundamentalist from the WallBuilders group. He wrote a book full of quotes from the Founding Fathers that really took the Atheist's take on the foundation of this country to task. Many people jumped to do the research to find out the validity of these quotes. Firms devoted to Madison and Jefferson became involved, universities got involved and ultimately the Library of Congress was the final resting place for these quotes.
David Barton was cornered and he admitted to fabricating the quotes, okay he actually called them "spurious," but we all know that means he made them up. He was ordered to create a pamphlet that listed all his bogus quotes.Yet year after year this nest of lies is paraded out as "proof" that the US was founded as a Christian entity.
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 17:17:46 GMT -5
is obviously and without a shadow of a doubt talking about Gods WORD. Word=Sword, the REAL sword, the everlasting swordLet me see if I get this correctly. You are claiming that because of the letters that make up the English word sword contain the letters for word that when Jesus said sword he meant word, in a language that did not yet exist? It is tough to do the translation but in Aramaic sword is 0brxb and word is fmb. Explain again how these two words are equal?
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 20, 2008 19:01:50 GMT -5
Yes people, check out the movie, buy it before Mr. Barton will be executed and his books and movies pulled off the shelves.
Just look at the opposition, atheists, pro-choicers, Christian haters, Muslims and all anti-Christians are out to destroy this masterpiece of a movie documentary.
Thank you Lord for giving us a last glimpse of where we came from, what kept us going through all these trials as a young country, and the sadest of all, what we have lost.
Untill we meet again, Stand strong, keep the faith.
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Post by rational on Nov 20, 2008 22:04:28 GMT -5
Yes people, check out the movie, buy it before Mr. Barton will be executed and his books and movies pulled off the shelves. No one has threatened Barton. They just called him out when he published quotes he claimed were from the founders but it turns out he made them up to support his case. Check out the movie. It is well done. Bogus quotes and facts woven in with just enough true facts to make the viewer feel that it is the truth. If I were still teaching my Skeptical Thinking class I would make it required viewing. And here is a basic logical fallacy. Poisoning the Well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem. Instead of looking at the facts/data presented you attack the source. It has been shown, in a court, that Barton made up the quotes to support his premise and was ordered to print a retraction indicating which quotes were, in his words, spurious. Yet, you are so desperate to believe this net of lies that you ignore the facts, disparage the people who actually looked up the quotes and examined the data, and decided to stick with the lies. I wonder if you noticed that I deliberately chose, as the first reference, A Critique of David Barton's "America's Godly Heritage" written by the Baptist Joint Committee on Public AffairsThe Baptist Joint Committee represents eleven Baptist denominations. I believe they are a christian organization. Which of your list do you think they are? The atheists? The pro-choicers? The Christian haters? The Muslims? Or perhaps anti-Christians? But does it matter? If an atheist finds that Barton was presenting facts and shows data to support the claim should you ignore it? It is clear from this that you are not interested in the truth at all but only are interested in preventing people from looking at data that does not support your point of view by attacking the people who are presenting the data. And now you are thanking god for showing you a story that has been shown to be based on false statements. I am standing strong and looking for supporting data. You can stick to your faith. I will stick with data. Here is a real quote from a founding father: "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."- Thomas Jefferson
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 21, 2008 13:54:28 GMT -5
Let me see if I get this correctly. You are claiming that because of the letters that make up the English word sword contain the letters for word that when Jesus said sword he meant word, in a language that did not yet exist?
As I said before, I have to say it again:
As it is written that the only people to understand the scriptures are the ones to whom it was 'given' to understand. It is those that are mindful of heavenly things and are not stuck here on this physical realm as you are my friend Rational.
"The WORD of GOD IS like a Two Edged Sword"
I know, swooosh!!!
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Post by eyedeetentee on Nov 21, 2008 15:22:27 GMT -5
In other swords, only white, homophobic, opinionated americans can understand the bible.
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Post by rational on Nov 21, 2008 23:21:06 GMT -5
"The WORD of GOD IS like a Two Edged Sword"I know, swooosh!!! Are you claiming the above to be a biblical quote? And it still does not show that sword = word.
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Post by rational on Nov 21, 2008 23:28:56 GMT -5
As it is written that the only people to understand the scriptures are the ones to whom it was 'given' to understand. It is those that are mindful of heavenly things and are not stuck here on this physical realm as you are my friend Rational. So from a discussion standpoint, there is no way I can see the hidden/double/mystical/paranormal/bizarre/twisted meanings of the book you use to guide your life because god only shows 'special' people? That sounds like some of the definitions I have seen for cults: Only True Teaching - often considers traditional religious systems to be apostate and it alone possess the complete truth.Members have received special revelation from God.
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Post by pianoman on Nov 22, 2008 2:39:39 GMT -5
I know this is probably a mistake, but I will attempt to add what I know here. This has never been a Christian nation. This country was founded on tobacco. The commercial expeditions that came here were expecting to find jewels and gold, but only found tobacco. They took the tobacco back to England and it became popular to have tobacco stains on ones clothes as the royalty started the fad. True there were some that came here to escape persecution, but if you read their history, they had some pretty bizarre rules and if you read history, they were burning witches and persecuting people pretty good themselves. I think the we forget that when man comes into religion, it is doomed. All of the "Christians" were up in arms when they were removing prayer from the schools. I have never had anyone stop me from bowing my head anywhere and praying to my Father. If we don't have a separation of Church and state, we will all be forced to follow one religion, which is the basis of this whole site, that no one wants to follow the F & W's, 2x2's or what ever. I personally only will follow God and when I see corruption in any church, I leave. As I said, I know this will probably bring on the attacks, and that will prove my point. I can't even have my opinion here without being "corrected" and just think if the police were behind that pointing guns and saying that "you will do this and you will believe that" I am happy being able to choose what I want for "religion" in my life, so please understand, I am not against the nation, I just don't think that because a large amount of the population, go to "some" church, the churches are mostly all in disagreement and unless there is a God for each one, there is a lot of confusion about who God is really with. We consume more alcohol per capita also but that does not make us an alcoholic nation. Peace of God to all, and I hope no one takes offense. I didn't make history up, it just is mans continuation of his ego and corruptness, Pianoman
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Post by pianoman on Nov 22, 2008 3:13:56 GMT -5
I will try to remember what I wrote in the thread I started, "Conduct in Posts" but, Rational, and eyedeetentee, you are both intelligent and thoughtful people. Just look around at other post from those you are engaged in this discussion with, and you will realize that you are, like myself, inferior in mind, not tuned in with God, have no understanding, and never will, and we are just falsely taught and poor mislead people. I think that you will find that walking away from this one is the best solution. No one that can think rationally and think for themselves, is going to take these two seriously, and I feel sorry for them, because they do draw folks like you and me into these one sided discussions, that will decline into a name calling situation. There are those that believe themselves to be the only voice of reason and directly anointed by God to correct all of us and you can only have pity on them. You can not make a point with someone that has their mind made up and doesn't want to be confused by facts. I really enjoy your comments when you are dealing with a rational conversation started and participated in by rational folks. I will respond before the attack, yes I am running away from the fray. Discretion IS the better part of valor, Pianoman
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Post by rational on Nov 22, 2008 8:14:58 GMT -5
I will try to remember what I wrote in the thread I started, "Conduct in Posts" but, Rational, and eyedeetentee, you are both intelligent and thoughtful people. Well, thanks. You know, sometines this does seem like beating one's head against the wall over and over but the up side is that I still learn from responding. Oh I know. But the facts are on our side. People should watch the video posted here and read the comments. Barton lies to make his points and the ones condemned are those who expose the lies. That is what being a conservative is all about. So far I have been able to limit the name calling to one side only. It is sort of like spanking your children - it feels good for the moment and expresses your feeling of superiority but in the long run accomplishes nothing or, at best, the opposite from what you intended. I still cling to that glimmer of hope that an idea or two will make it through and perhaps a child growing up will be able to look at the world with the blinders opened just a little bit more than they might have been. Emotional baggage is hard to drop. If you have been carrying it for years, what will you do with your free hands? Did you ever go into a room of people and suddenly become aware of your hands and not know what to do with them? Sure, the baggage is heavy but it does occupy your hands. No one likes to be uncomfortable and that is what new thought and ideas often produce. If I were smart I would be right behind you. But I cling to the hope that one of them will answer the questions or at least continue the discussion. It is interesting (sometimes) to follow the thought patterns.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 22, 2008 17:50:53 GMT -5
Christ Revealed Himself to all whoever would receive Him. But for those that choose not to believe in Gods wonders and miracles:
John 12:37-40 37 Even though he had performed all these miracles in their presence, they did not believe in him, 38 so that what the prophet Isaiah had said might come true:
"Lord, who believed the message we told? To whom did the Lord reveal his power?"
39 And so they were not able to believe, because Isaiah also said,
40 "God has blinded their eyes and closed their minds, so that their eyes would not see, and their minds would not understand, and they would not turn to me, says God, for me to heal them." TEV
(Blinded them so they would not believe in anything else either. If you refuse to believe in one thing that God has revealed to you, then He will make sure that it will be obvious to all that that person is walking in darkness.)
Matt 11:25-26 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. NKJV
Matt 16:15-17 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered and said,"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. NKJV
Rom 1:16-20 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
18 God's Wrath on Unrighteousness For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. NKJV
1 Cor 2:10-12 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. NKJV
My dear Pianoman, now you have truly shown where your 'faith' lies. I thank you Lord for revealing it to everyone here, so they may understand the saying:
Matt 15:14 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."NKJV
And now I will heed to His command: "leave them alone!"
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Post by pianoman on Nov 23, 2008 0:04:24 GMT -5
Point proved and point made. Game , Set , and Match!
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Post by rational on Nov 23, 2008 2:30:19 GMT -5
Point proved and point made. Game , Set , and Match! Hey, can I hitch a ride?
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Post by pianoman on Nov 23, 2008 2:54:59 GMT -5
Rational, you mean you would actually get into a car with a blind driver. Oh, I forgot, you are blind too, so nevermind. Yeah, Hop in!!
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Post by ex-teenager on Nov 23, 2008 5:14:11 GMT -5
Rational wrote, "The separation of state and church is indeed a good thing. People are free to practice any religion they wish in the privacy of their home/church but no group should have the right to enforce their beliefs on the general population. It never turns out well."In fact, the separation of any particular church and the affairs of state is indeed a good thing. That however does not negate that the U.S. was a Christian nation founded under God and as my brother Odon and others have so eloquently pointed out here that premise has been hijacked by those whose purpose is to weaken this nation through the erosion of its faith. "That however does not negate that the U.S. was a Christian nation founded under God" Gods kingdom is in heaven.. he didnt "found" the USA. Your country, like every other on this planet..is full of evil and corruption. I don't honestly think that God looks down on any nation and thinks.. "thats a great nation"
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Post by rational on Nov 23, 2008 21:53:36 GMT -5
"That however does not negate that the U.S. was a Christian nation founded under God" While there seem to be a lot of people who believe this, it does not seem to be the case. Look here for one of many references.
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Post by juliette on Nov 23, 2008 23:44:09 GMT -5
Let's say that the "founding fathers" really intended for the US to be a "Christian Nation" (which they didn't).
That still doesn't make it a good idea. They also thought holding people as property, and treating women as second-class citizens were smart ways to go. I'm sure that some more knowledgeable and research oriented that I could come up with a bunch of other examples. The entire point of civilization is that we evolve!
Why in the world would anyone think that mixing religion and state affairs is a good idea. It's all fine and dandy if YOUR brand is in power... but not so awesome if it's not. If you're a 2x2... what if the state decides that home based religions are bad... or, if you're Catholic, what if the state decides that your religion is wrong? Or... what if the majority of our country becomes Islamic.. how fun would that be for everyone else?
The best situation is one in which everyone is free to practice, preach and follow their own beliefs, or not follow any beliefs, and where no one's beliefs are officially a part of the government. That is actually the best protection FOR anyone's religion.
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Post by pianoman on Nov 24, 2008 2:55:05 GMT -5
Juliette, great points! I tried to make them too, but you are probably like rational and me, not a "chosen" one to receive the "real meaning" of the bible.
Don't let that bother you though, as I think you are in good company. You are definitely on the right track here! Keep the faith, sister, Pianoman
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ddowdy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by ddowdy on Nov 24, 2008 13:21:07 GMT -5
"Rational" wrote, to dispute my contention that the U.S. was founded primarily by Christians (both its leaders and population) and has remained so throughout most if not all of its history. Like many who exist primarily for the thrill of the argument, the buzz of being contentious, our poor misguided friend extrapolated all sorts of fictional oversteppings from my simple statements. I could strive for a lifetime to educate someone like "Rational" and others of his ilk but I am sure it would be in vain. Some of us live to learn while others still struggle with learning to live. In any event our friend refers to some of the leading lights in the founding of our great nation in challenging my statement that they were Christians rather than what he terms "deists". He wrote,
"Consider some of the leaders.
Jefferson, Washington Franklin Adams Hamilton (at the time of the constitution)
I await your reply."
Since "Rational" probably wouldn't admit to anything I would or could say on the subject lets go directly to some of the sources.
George Washington who is popularly regarded as the "Father of our Country" and who served as our first President and Commander of the Army of The Revolution, was a member of the Episcopal Church. Upon the occasion of Washington's disbanding of the Revolutionary Army he wrote a letter to the Governors of all of the new American states dated 8 June 1783. In that letter he wrote that it was his "earnest prayer that God would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with the charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were characteristics of the divine author of our blessed religon and without the humane imitation of whose example to these things we can never hope to be a holy nation."
In those days it was Benjamin Franklin who was probably the closest of the founding fathers in his religous perspective to what those who would rewrite history for the consumption of individuals like "Rational". In a letter to the President of Yale University dated 9 March 1790, Franklin wrote, "As to Jesus of Nazareth my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religon, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw or is likely to see."
In a speech to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Franklin said, "God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can live without his aid? We have been answered in the sacred writings that except the Lord bless the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."
John Adams our nation's second President wrote in his personal diary in an entry dated, 26 July 1796, "The Christian religon is above all the religons that ever prevailed or existed...(it is) the religon of wisdom, virtue and equality."
James Madison who like Washington was a member of the Episcopal Church is credited with being the principal author of our Constitution. In a 1778 address to the Virginia General Assembly Madison said, "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government...far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
Thomas Jefferson was America's "Renaissance Man". In a letter dated 21 April 1803 to a Ben Johnson, Jefferson wrote, "My views are very different from the anti-Christian views imputed to me...To the corruption of Christianity I am therein opposed; but not to the guiding precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished one to be...The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and true to all the happiness of man...I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple in the doctrines of Jesus."
Enough said.
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