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Post by rjs on Oct 26, 2008 11:35:45 GMT -5
Does it bother you that some professing parents feel the need to jerk their little ones out of the meeting room and slap the heck out of them. I have heard little ones wail and scream in horror. You can see the look on the little one as he or she is jerked out of the room. I have seen them come back into the meeting room with red marks on their legs.
Older workers encouraged this discipline and it haunts the "truth" to this day. My uncle used to "whoop" his kids...bragged about how good they were in meeting...yet several had run ins with the law afterwards.
Sometimes such harsh and stern discipline can backfire. I feel sorry for a little child who has to fear a whipping because he is little and squirms around during meeting.
Older workers used to give parents the LOOK if they didn't remove their kids out of the room. The look could almost kill.
I wished this group of people would purge their old British ways of the 19th century.
A social worker could report this behavior and the child could be removed from their parents. Think about it.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 26, 2008 11:37:22 GMT -5
Good grief. I know spankings do happen (by 2x2s AND a great deal of the population otherwise.) but oh the DRAMAAAAAAA. (whipped hard! jerk the little ones out! slap the HECK out of em! scream in HORRORRRR!) Oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
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Post by rjs on Oct 26, 2008 11:41:34 GMT -5
Little Jimmie Dickens sang "My daddy tanned my hide out behind the barn". Lots of old English beliefs that haunt our society today. Spankings should be a LAST resort. If a child say F*** You then you might use a little force. If you see abuse happening in a meeting or convention, approach the parent.
A man slammed his daughter into her chair because she wouldn't sit still. A professing man got after him for it and the incident never happened again. If more in the "truth" had the courage to take a stand, then such abuses would end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 13:07:41 GMT -5
Their wills must be broken !
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Post by juliette on Oct 26, 2008 13:25:53 GMT -5
I see this as a societal issue, not a 2x2 issue. When I was younger, corporal punishment was more prevalent in and outside of the 2x2 fellowship. Now, I see families in the fellowship using more current (and in my mind more effective) ways of working with their children. I don't think I saw one family use physical force with their children the last time I was at convention. I saw mother and fathers much more aware of what children of different ages are capable of developmentally in regards to sitting still. I saw parents out in the dining hall, walking around outside, or in the baby house during meetings with their young children.
Regarding the issue of the "truth" taking a stand against physical discipline, I believe that the workers were just a product of their times (or a little behind). They had absolutely NO training in child rearing or parenting, and they had no children of their own. I do believe that a generation ago, there was pressure on parents to "make their children behave in meeting"... that meaning make a 2 year old sit still for and hour and a half. I think that pressure came from other "friends" as well as the workers. I think parents in general in our society are more educated about child development and have been given better tools to use. Parenting classes are everywhere these days, and when my parents had us, this was not the case. Why people would take the advice of untrained, childless people (workers) in regards to child rearing is beyond me, but I know that it happened. I don't see that as much anymore.
RJS... I am curious about one sentence you wrote.... "If a child say F*** you might use a little force". I'm assuming you meant that if a child uses profanity, you can hit them? Why is using profanity grounds for physical force? In my mind, that is a complete escalation that provides no learning opportunity for the child. If a young child uses profanity, they are generally using a word that they heard but don't understand. That's pretty easy to deal with. If an older child is using profanity (at another person), that's an issue of disrespect that in my mind is going to take a lot more that hitting to resolve, and is most probably the result of the child not being taught effective communication skills and dispute resolution techniques.
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Post by selah on Oct 26, 2008 14:53:33 GMT -5
Sadly, I was one of the parents who took my children out of the meeting and spanked them, and in hindsight I'd say it was likely never necessary, and it certainly never needed to be as harsh as it was. Of course I'm speaking only for my own situation and experience. Discipline like that was all about my own pride or insecurity or whatever. It was certainly more about me than it was about lovingly teaching respect and courtesy to my children. I demonstrated absolutely no respect or courtesy to them, and we know that children live what they learn. They were humiliated, belittled and physically hurt all because they wiggled or giggled in an adult setting that required absolute silence and stillness for long periods. That's very difficult for a 3 year old, and I think expecting that kind of perfection is really quite cruel. A mutual respect can be fostered with love, gentleness and patience. I discovered this later in church services outside of the meetings. I felt less pressure to make my children perform as adults, and I had learned that I was the most important advocate for my children. When they sensed I was on their side, their behavior became much more respectful. Were they perfect? Ummmm...I think you all know the answer to that one! But, we did establish a healthy understanding while maintaining an appreciation for the needs of each other. God's precious love made all the difference! Blessings, Linda
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Post by makeajoyfulnoise on Oct 26, 2008 16:18:42 GMT -5
My children wiggled and squirmed during meetings. It may have bothered others, but they were not spanked/punished for that. I provided quiet "toys/books/pens/notebooks," if they were getting figity. I did not feel pressured to make my children perform as adults (that would be inappropriate); I am not that kind of a parent ! I do understand "developmental" incremental behavior for children.
I did not wait to discovered this elsewhere. And God's precious Love has made me be the parent I should be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 16:59:16 GMT -5
We are meant to suffer little children to come unto Christ, NOT make them suffer to come unto Christ !
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Post by selah on Oct 26, 2008 17:07:54 GMT -5
My children wiggled and squirmed during meetings. It may have bothered others, but they were not spanked/punished for that. I provided quiet "toys/books/pens/notebooks," if they were getting figity. I did not feel pressured to make my children perform as adults (that would be inappropriate); I am not that kind of a parent ! I do understand "developmental" incremental behavior for children. I did not wait to discovered this elsewhere. And God's precious Love has made me be the parent I should be. Hi Makeajoyfulnoise, Oh I provided toys, notebooks etc. for my kids too. Sometimes that helped, but other times...well...not so much. I'm glad your wisdom in these things was so much better than mine was, and I'm sure there are many others like you. Unfortunately, there were many others like me too. Of course parents who lack wisdom in this regard can be found in other churches outside of the meetings too!! It just happened, in my experience, to be far less common. I think it is reasonable to state that the standard of behavior expectation is greater among the friends, and perhaps that contributes to the frequency and severity of discipline?? I too thought it was inappropriate; nevertheless, there were comments and facial expressions that said, "Do something about that child." I grieved over my need to satisfy those around me, rather than use my own judgement concerning the discipline of my children. Finally, I began to respond to the needs of my children rather than other people's needs. Come to think of it, some of that change did begin while I was still attending meetings. It was at convention, I began taking them out of the meeting and allowing them to run for a bit. I found they would sit quieter if they had a break like that. There were some BIG frowns and tongue clucking, but I as able to maintain that resolve anyway. Blessings, Linda
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Post by dragonfly on Oct 26, 2008 18:57:17 GMT -5
to Selah, I am sure that you were and are a great parent. Your children were/are lucky to have you.
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Post by selah on Oct 26, 2008 21:48:58 GMT -5
to Selah, I am sure that you were and are a great parent. Your children were/are lucky to have you. Thank you dragonfly...what a kind remark. Bless you. Blessings, Linda
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Post by Sharon on Oct 26, 2008 21:59:53 GMT -5
Seems like to me that "abusive" parents can sure find a lot of reasons to be abusive, can't they? Anyone with a grain of sense knows that babies and toddlers can not be expected to even begin to sit exactly quiet! In our mtg. years ago, one young couple had 6 little boys and everyone of them when they reached the age of 2 would seems to know exactly when to be the most trying and that usually was when mommy or daddy was speaking! All 6 of those children did it and they had 4 cousins who did the same thing....we went over a period of 12 yrs. with those 10 children and their "terrible 2's" we called it....but it was just part of their growing and we all knew it would happen and accepted it...the parents would usually take them out of the mtg. room so others could speak without having to scream over the child's voice! The owner of the home had a back bedroom that was fixed for that kind of thing. And usually taking the child back there and getting their attention off the mtg. circumstances would serve to quiet them! A change of venue helps a whole lot!
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lizzy
Senior Member
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Post by lizzy on Oct 27, 2008 0:12:50 GMT -5
Well here in CA we have a generation of parents who don't spank their children and babies. They are loving and patient, and are turning out some good kids.
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