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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 12, 2009 15:14:04 GMT -5
I find it quite interesting the way some of you portray the truth. I was born and raised in the truth and would like to get a few things clear. In our home, we had a TV, radio, computer (with internet), a boat, rollerskates, bikes, cards, and bowling balls. None of which were hidden from our workers. Those that say we believe that these things are "evil" or the "devil" are wrong. It is only frowned upon when more time is spent on those things than is given to our Father. And believe it or not, we have always ENJOYED having the workers over. I have never heard the workers speak a bad word or gossip about anyone, nor has anyone else I have spoken with at meeting around the U.S. The workers never just "show up" at a home without an invitation. There are more than enough families inviting them in each day, so they have no need to ask or come uninvited. tenny88, Where are you from anyway?! It sounds like a great place to live and go to meeting.....like nowhere else I've ever heard of! Let me tell you for a TRUTH that workers do stop by without notice....some do it often. Some are so wonderful that they are invited to "stop in without calling" (have told some so myself!). But, usually that is not the case. You'll never make me believe that you had TV right out in your parents home and no one ever said anything about it! Sorry! E
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Post by Redwing on Jul 14, 2009 11:33:30 GMT -5
I wonder too where Redwing comes from that nothing was said. He should count his lucky stars and take it from the majority of us that we never encountered such tolerance - ever! Would Redwing have been willing to change all that if ordered like most folks in the Truth?[/quote Msmarie: It was tenny88 that made the statement , not me
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Post by MsMarie on Jul 15, 2009 8:13:11 GMT -5
So sorry Redwing - glad it was an enquiry and not a criticism.... Same goes for tenny88 then!
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Post by ronhall on Jul 15, 2009 9:11:17 GMT -5
I find it quite interesting the way some of you portray the truth. I was born and raised in the truth and would like to get a few things clear. In our home, we had a TV, radio, computer (with internet), a boat, rollerskates, bikes, cards, and bowling balls. None of which were hidden from our workers. Those that say we believe that these things are "evil" or the "devil" are wrong. It is only frowned upon when more time is spent on those things than is given to our Father. And believe it or not, we have always ENJOYED having the workers over. I have never heard the workers speak a bad word or gossip about anyone, nor has anyone else I have spoken with at meeting around the U.S. The workers never just "show up" at a home without an invitation. There are more than enough families inviting them in each day, so they have no need to ask or come uninvited. tenny88, Where are you from anyway?! It sounds like a great place to live and go to meeting.....like nowhere else I've ever heard of! Let me tell you for a TRUTH that workers do stop by without notice....some do it often. Some are so wonderful that they are invited to "stop in without calling" (have told some so myself!). But, usually that is not the case. You'll never make me believe that you had TV right out in your parents home and no one ever said anything about it! Sorry!E Probably best to never say "never". These days as Americans have become more affluent and along with the increased affluence have demanded larger and more luxurious homes, it is uncommon for an upscale home to not have a home theater/media room. The home I presently own was an upscale home fifty years ago, but were I to advertise it for sale today, I would need to double the square footage, add several rooms, wire for cable TV, internet, sound, video and "who-knows-what". Some of the friends in this area are builders and their new homes that they live in for a few years while building the next one always have the full complement of amenities. I cannot imagine the workers boycotting such families. They are just carrying on the trade that Jesus worked at before he went out to preach!! :>) Really, the technology of the TV is just a predecessor to the technology of the computer I'm presently using. There is absolutely nothing a TV will do that can't be done with a computer. With the way the workers have embraced the computer, there is nothing left to the argument for banning TV. Looking back over the years the problems they had in banning it and the division it made between the devout and the not-so-devout, I truly wonder if that decision might have been made had foresight been as clear as hindsight. Since I was an engineer in the electronics field, knowing the technical similarities between the TV and computer, I was surprised and astounded with the workers began showing up with laptop computers. Overall I believe it is a good thing. Why make righteousness out of some salient feature, such as "no TV", when the scripture is quite explicit about such righteousness being as filthy rags to God?
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Post by MsMarie on Jul 16, 2009 4:25:00 GMT -5
I totally agree with your comments ronhall but unfortunately most workers would still defend the no TV rule, especially here in UK. Personally I think the biggest mistake from their point of view was to ban TVs and allow computers. The computer is information at your fingertips and it was not long before the history became well known along with rules which varied from country to country - this thread being in evidence of it. TV would never have been such a threat to the general secrecy attitude. To me, the whole organisation now seems like a ship doing its best to sail along, but with a great hole under the waterline.
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Post by ronhall on Jul 16, 2009 9:42:25 GMT -5
Even I would defend the no TV rule to an extent. However I believe each of has choices to make throughout the day and we also have consequences to accept. If spending time watching TV becomes more important than helping a brother in need, for example, then it is known where one's first love resides.
Most who are serious in their profession would make the better choice without intervention. In the process their faith would also become more firmly grounded as they would realize the battle was won from within.
Sometimes I also see the fellowship as you do, but might you also consider it a small boat towed on a trailer with the water that had collected in the bilges as dead weight leaking out along the roadway.
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Post by MsMarie on Jul 17, 2009 6:17:21 GMT -5
That is also a good picture. When I first professed, my conversion was true and my life was changed and that is lifelong. However, on looking back, the work of God in my life was never permitted to progress as it should, as the workers continually heaped rule upon rule (I was from outside and knew little about the customs of the Friends) and nothing was allowed to occur naturally such as you mention about coming to terms with TV. I agree that as we mature as Christians, we ought to arrive at the right choices, ie God taught rather than worker taught. I have changed my attitudes on many things and still do especially where I recognise slippery slopes from smaller things.
Coming back the thread, open homes allowed the workers to check on us and I am sure they think this is vital. Their need to control is absolute as they don't trust God to do the work. This has to have a counterproductive effect on individual and collective Christian development.
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Post by ronhall on Jul 17, 2009 13:57:39 GMT -5
Sad to say that much too often, man's ambition gets ahead of allowing patience to complete its perfect work.
I suppose sometimes workers' interest in what goes on in our homes evolves into snoopy-ness at times. Being a music lover, I own a very capable home music system as well as a large, well-rounded collection of records and CDs. I've had workers go through my collection and make various comments, mostly positive.
One worker made a slightly less-than-positive comment about seeing a Book of Mormon on a little table next to my chair. A few days earlier the Mormon missionaries had left it with me after I had agreed to a meeting a week later. I was getting up-to-speed for the event by re-reading their book. So I invited the workers to attend also. It worked out quite well since the younger worker had close relatives in that church. The older one, though, wasn't quite so agreeable and excused himself from the dinner table once the meal was finished and the discussion started.
The younger worker just gave his testimony from a little child up through his years in the work. The Mormon boys were really respectfully intrigued by his story, asked a lot of questions and were very open to the differences in the way they went out. About 10 pm the older one was surprised at the elapsed time and suggested we have a time of prayer before disbanding. I started, my wife prayed next, then the worker but the two Mormon fellows just said amen and got up to leave. After they left, I asked the worker about that and he said they have never been taught to pray as we do.
So I don't have a problem with workers coming around anytime, or Mormon fellows either, for that matter. We don't do anything different, whether they're here or not. We don't have pictures of workers but have some nice Asian and modern art. There are flower gardens, trails, a pond, a large vegetable garden, orchard and vineyard. There is also a lot of junk around to service pickup trucks, cars, tractors and small farm/garden machinery. I may be overhauling an engine or transmission or rebuilding a piano or making some new cabinets for the bathroom. Just depends. If they don't like the clutter, well, there are a lot of more city-fied folks nearby to stay with. It doesn't hurt my feelings, one way or the other! But when they stay, we invite them into our lives just as we are and have had some good wholesome times together.
Sorry that rules caused the death of fellowship for you. It really should not be that way!
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Post by Annan on Jul 17, 2009 16:42:36 GMT -5
Since Ron brought it up... I have had some wonderful visits with Mormons. They were fascinated with my witchcraft and asked me tons of questions. Not like the Jehovah's Witnesses that ran for the hills upon seeing the silver pentacle on my coffee table. Then there's my southern Baptist son-in-law that jokingly (I bet!) makes the sign of the cross against evil at me when we walks by. I always mumble "ribbit, ribbit" at him when he does so. I love knowing what people believe and why. It's all so interesting to share that way.
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Post by MsMarie on Jul 18, 2009 9:14:14 GMT -5
I was once a spiritualist for a couple of years, and became convinced through that that there was more to life than the things we can see and touch, which is what led me onward to belief in Jesus and salvation. I now regard spiritualism, witchcraft and the like, as dangerous to your soul. Not one of those spirits spoke of salvation, God, Jesus or anything scriptural. What they could and did do was accurately predict the future, heal, move things about, make noises, produce evidence from 'dead' relatives etc. It was all so fascinating, almost addictive, but being born of water and the Holy Spirit didn't come into it and I became wary and took that as a warning. Also that Jesus cast out these sorts of spirits and they knew who He was. Please be careful Annan...
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Post by tenny88 on Jul 27, 2009 18:19:06 GMT -5
Redwing, I have lived in several southern states my entire life.
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