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Post by cliques on Aug 5, 2008 14:45:08 GMT -5
Why are cliques which are obviously a cause of division in this group so prevalent and not discouraged?
Isn't it a gross hypocrisy that in a way that claims to be The Way and the Family of God on earth, cliques are permitted and indeed created.
Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others.
This is further promoting cliques.
Snobbery prevails in its worst form, spiritual snoberry and separatism.
Time this family worked on its home front to bring together and unite its members.
In times past get=togethers were prohibitted.
In times further past get togethers included all, excluded none.
Income brackets, property, status, place, usefulness or lack therof, age, none of these were a criteria for attendance.
Get back to basics. UNITE!
Just look around at the recent conventions and see the cliques.
Sit on a table where your clique is not and see how many people will even notice you are there! Will they even pass the jam???!!! Hardly.
A ruder people would be hard to find.
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Post by To Cliques on Aug 6, 2008 12:23:43 GMT -5
Why are cliques which are obviously a cause of division in this group so prevalent and not discouraged? Isn't it a gross hypocrisy that in a way that claims to be The Way and the Family of God on earth, cliques are permitted and indeed created. Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others. This is further promoting cliques. Snobbery prevails in its worst form, spiritual snoberry and separatism. Time this family worked on its home front to bring together and unite its members. In times past get=togethers were prohibitted. In times further past get togethers included all, excluded none. Income brackets, property, status, place, usefulness or lack therof, age, none of these were a criteria for attendance. Get back to basics. UNITE! Just look around at the recent conventions and see the cliques. Sit on a table where your clique is not and see how many people will even notice you are there! Will they even pass the jam???!!! Hardly. A ruder people would be hard to find. Formation of cliques is not actively promoted. I say workers could sometimes make an effort to stay in more humble homes rather than hole up for most of the preaching season in one very comfortable home, where incidentally, you'll find the lady of the house does not work outside the home. One particular woman in the Bristish Isles walks an extra inch taller since her home became a favoured destintation. If there was less emphasis on favoured homes it may make the commoners feel less inadequate. There is a plus side of course, to the workers choosing not to stay: no rigidly appointed meal times with very particular dietry requirements and no flexibility to allow for the established rythmn of the household, no extra laundry, no kicking the dog out to pretend the shaggy, dirty brute doesn't live like a king in your house. As for sitting at a table at meal times with people I don't know, I always found it a great way to meet people, even they were forty years older than me. Of course they wouldn't be skipping out for a walk afterwards but they might if I sat near them in the meeting, pass me a few sweets. As for get-togethers, in Northern Ireland gatherings of more than 30 were forbidden. At the same time in the Republic, get-togethers seldom numbered less than 70. In Scotland we were thrilled to have gatherings of more than 10 and in England, like Scotland, there were no such restrictions. The best get-together you'll experience in the British Isles is the first Monday in August, Bank Holiday in the Republic of Ireland on a beach between Cork and Waterford. All ages, all backgrounds and a very friendly, welcoming atmosphere. I think you'd be surprised at the family spirit.
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Post by clique clique on Aug 7, 2008 14:16:55 GMT -5
Cliques not actively encouraged they are formed and promoted by the of short sightedness and mindless action of workers who think with their feet.
The gatherings appointed by workers (apart from formal meetings) almost always exclude certain categories often based on age.
Workers need to think about promoting unity for a change.
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Post by foolish cliques on Aug 8, 2008 12:18:41 GMT -5
It is very foolish to create and promote cliques in such a small church.
Workers may not realise that they are doing just that. It is the outcome of worker behavior.
Workers in times past used to be more inclusive when dealing with friends in their "fields"of work.
When visiting friends they would include everyone, taking care not to leave anyone out. It now happens that a worker will visit a town just visiting his/her personal friends completely ignoring the rest. Even relatives at times.
Workers in recent years "punish"certain friends who may not measure up to expectations by leaving them out of the visiting rota.
Workers take offence at petty things and the ostrosize the perceived offenders.
Workers have ceased to be loving, caring shepherds. In general. There are a few, very few exceptions.
Workers want to be served instead of to serve.
Workers used to borrow a car when offered indiscriminately. Now they must have their own designated car for permanent use during the worker year.
All this tends to affect the fellowship. People group together according to their perceived status within the worker criteria.
They find strength in the group where they feel sympathy and mutual help. Cliques are formed.
These cliques are damaging to the overall unity of the fellowship and could be avoided by good management and shepherding.
This kind of behavior affects the overall unity.
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Post by Do they want on Aug 10, 2008 3:48:59 GMT -5
Do they want to get rid of the cliques?
Perhaps they are happy in their little cliques.
Those who don't fit into a clique exit.
Simple solution.
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Post by not England on Aug 10, 2008 3:51:39 GMT -5
Why are cliques which are obviously a cause of division in this group so prevalent and not discouraged? Isn't it a gross hypocrisy that in a way that claims to be The Way and the Family of God on earth, cliques are permitted and indeed created. Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others. This is further promoting cliques. Snobbery prevails in its worst form, spiritual snoberry and separatism. Time this family worked on its home front to bring together and unite its members. In times past get=togethers were prohibitted. In times further past get togethers included all, excluded none. Income brackets, property, status, place, usefulness or lack therof, age, none of these were a criteria for attendance. Get back to basics. UNITE! Just look around at the recent conventions and see the cliques. Sit on a table where your clique is not and see how many people will even notice you are there! Will they even pass the jam???!!! Hardly. A ruder people would be hard to find. Formation of cliques is not actively promoted. I say workers could sometimes make an effort to stay in more humble homes rather than hole up for most of the preaching season in one very comfortable home, where incidentally, you'll find the lady of the house does not work outside the home. One particular woman in the Bristish Isles walks an extra inch taller since her home became a favoured destintation. If there was less emphasis on favoured homes it may make the commoners feel less inadequate. There is a plus side of course, to the workers choosing not to stay: no rigidly appointed meal times with very particular dietry requirements and no flexibility to allow for the established rythmn of the household, no extra laundry, no kicking the dog out to pretend the shaggy, dirty brute doesn't live like a king in your house. As for sitting at a table at meal times with people I don't know, I always found it a great way to meet people, even they were forty years older than me. Of course they wouldn't be skipping out for a walk afterwards but they might if I sat near them in the meeting, pass me a few sweets. As for get-togethers, in Northern Ireland gatherings of more than 30 were forbidden. At the same time in the Republic, get-togethers seldom numbered less than 70. In Scotland we were thrilled to have gatherings of more than 10 and in England, like Scotland, there were no such restrictions. The best get-together you'll experience in the British Isles is the first Monday in August, Bank Holiday in the Republic of Ireland on a beach between Cork and Waterford. All ages, all backgrounds and a very friendly, welcoming atmosphere. I think you'd be surprised at the family spirit. You were obviously not brought up in England. No restrictions there because no gatherings outside of meetings allowed unless organised clandestinely or by a particular worer whose name we better not mention on here.
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Of course youre right
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Post by Of course youre right on Aug 10, 2008 4:14:44 GMT -5
Formation of cliques is not actively promoted. I say workers could sometimes make an effort to stay in more humble homes rather than hole up for most of the preaching season in one very comfortable home, where incidentally, you'll find the lady of the house does not work outside the home. One particular woman in the Bristish Isles walks an extra inch taller since her home became a favoured destintation. If there was less emphasis on favoured homes it may make the commoners feel less inadequate. There is a plus side of course, to the workers choosing not to stay: no rigidly appointed meal times with very particular dietry requirements and no flexibility to allow for the established rythmn of the household, no extra laundry, no kicking the dog out to pretend the shaggy, dirty brute doesn't live like a king in your house. As for sitting at a table at meal times with people I don't know, I always found it a great way to meet people, even they were forty years older than me. Of course they wouldn't be skipping out for a walk afterwards but they might if I sat near them in the meeting, pass me a few sweets. As for get-togethers, in Northern Ireland gatherings of more than 30 were forbidden. At the same time in the Republic, get-togethers seldom numbered less than 70. In Scotland we were thrilled to have gatherings of more than 10 and in England, like Scotland, there were no such restrictions. The best get-together you'll experience in the British Isles is the first Monday in August, Bank Holiday in the Republic of Ireland on a beach between Cork and Waterford. All ages, all backgrounds and a very friendly, welcoming atmosphere. I think you'd be surprised at the family spirit. You were obviously not brought up in England. No restrictions there because no gatherings outside of meetings allowed unless organised clandestinely or by a particular worer whose name we better not mention on here. Sorry, you are right. Any get-togethers I was at were organised without the involvement and very likely knowledge of the workers. Best that could be managed were after meeting chats otherwise!
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Post by groups of friends on Aug 11, 2008 14:49:50 GMT -5
What do you mena, cliques?
Don't you think they are just groups of friends?
People fall naturally into sets or groups.
Is that a bad thing?
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Post by exclude on Aug 12, 2008 13:36:48 GMT -5
Yes, I do think that overall cliques are a bad thing because they tend to exclude others. Look around you at conventions and special gatherings, ( if you can tear yourself away from your particular clique for a few minutes.) Can't you see the lonely onesw, the isolated couples, the ones that no one has bothered to nurture and encourage, the ones young and old who are NOT in a clique?
Look in the dining tent/shed. Look how they behave at table! We'll spare you the details. It can be a LONELY experience to be on a table like that.
Cliques talking to their members over the heads of others!
Shouldn't cliques be actively discouraged on the grounds of manners alone? Never mind that we are the PROFESSING ones!
Professing what?
Professing love for Jesus.
Doesn't this include your neighbour?
Only if they are in my clique!
You are not with the crowd I'm in with. You are not my clique!
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Post by never seen on Aug 14, 2008 11:15:33 GMT -5
Have to say never saw anything like you describe. I have always been well received as have my family. Can't understand how you feel like this.
Try to BE part of a group instead of on the outside. Show yourself friendly.
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exclusion not of us
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Post by exclusion not of us on Aug 20, 2008 11:38:55 GMT -5
Cliques are allowed and encouraged because the love of God is absent, the desire to gather together has been replaced with self serving. In its place there has grown up an attitude of pride, competition, ostentatious displaying of possessions, wealth unheard of at the beginning of the Jesus Way. Laying all at the Apostles feet and sharing with those who have less has been abandoned. Instead it is easier to reject the less privileged all together and preach about material blessings, like the poor deserve their poverty! To be part of a group you have to have something in common and instead of it being the love of Jesus, it has been replaced with other worldly ambitions.
Back to basics is the only way.
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Post by Seems to me on Aug 20, 2008 12:00:16 GMT -5
Seems to me that the problem is the green eyed monster.
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Post by melissa on Sept 5, 2008 13:45:15 GMT -5
Typical 2x2 excuse for bad behaviour!
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Post by aileen on Sept 11, 2008 15:30:10 GMT -5
"Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others."
No they don't.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 13, 2008 2:57:03 GMT -5
very, very much blanket statements in the first post. You say, a ruder people would be hard to find....I have found, my ENTIRE LIFE and have been an EX for HALF of it..... a kinder people would be hard to find. We have each had different experiences in/with the meetings, I'm pretty sure that's why....but I think you should acknowledge that not everyone has had the same experiences as you OR feels as you do. I am only one. I'm pretty sure there are others. Much here is talked about regarding doctrine or lack of, etc....as far as the fellowship. Fine. Most of us, however, have agreed, most of the time, in most posts!.......that it is not THE friends or THE workers (most of them!) that we have a problem with...it's the way itself. So....no matter how you feel (and you are of course, entitled and you may have several reasons for how you feel....( *I* don't happen to think you're in the majority. I saw cliques with young children at convention. (well, teenagers mostly. Little kids will run round and play with most anyone!) That's typical. NOT to be encouraged (and nor did I see it so) but typical none the less. I never, myself personally at least, witnessed cliques among the adults. Again, I do recognize that you may have had a different experience. Michelle
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Post by toffeecrumble on Sept 13, 2008 7:29:45 GMT -5
"Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others." No they don't. Unfortunately they do, Aileen. As recently as this summer In England this has again taken place. Ask around and you will find out.
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Post by toffeecrumble on Sept 13, 2008 7:51:04 GMT -5
The first poster is, no doubt speaking from his/her experience. Let's demonstrate a little respect for posters. Post your opinion too, without trying to deny the other person has posted theirs!!!Disagree by all means. You can do so professionally without refuting and putting down those whose experiences have contributed to their view.In my time I have met kind people amongs 2x2, but I have to say their intollerance of others seems unkind. Their treatment of those who no longer can uphold the narrow views, is often cruel and unloving. Many have posted their genuine stories.At convention I have witnessed extremely rude manners. Undoubtedly some behaved well. very, very much blanket statements in the first post. You say, a ruder people would be hard to find....I have found, my ENTIRE LIFE and have been an EX for HALF of it..... a kinder people would be hard to find. We have each had different experiences in/with the meetings, I'm pretty sure that's why....but I think you should acknowledge that not everyone has had the same experiences as you OR feels as you do. I am only one. I'm pretty sure there are others. Why would you have the same experience? The first poster has not suggested that everyone has the same experience.I would have to disagree with the following. I would be prepared to say that there is little wrong with the Way, but a great deal wrong with workers' teaching about the beginning of the movement. A true account would have helped uphold the teachings of Jesus.IN MY OPINION. Much here is talked about regarding doctrine or lack of, etc....as far as the fellowship. Fine. Most of us, however, have agreed, most of the time, in most posts!.......that it is not THE friends or THE workers (most of them!) that we have a problem with...it's the way itself. So....no matter how you feel (and you are of course, entitled and you may have several reasons for how you feel....( *I* don't happen to think you're in the majority. Who stated anything about majorities? Why so defensive? This is the 2x2 attitude that comes up over and over. Do you want all posters to refrain from posting becasue you do not like what they reveal? I saw cliques with young children at convention. (well, teenagers mostly. Little kids will run round and play with most anyone!) That's typical. NOT to be encouraged (and nor did I see it so) but typical none the less. I never, myself personally at least, witnessed cliques among the adults. Again, I do recognize that you may have had a different experience. Michelle Little children running around together do not demonstrating the clique behaviour that has been noticed. How absurd!
Workers' elitist attitude to friends however does emphasise the cliques. Adult behaviour and exclusivism does the same. Justify it if you can.
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Post by aileen on Sept 13, 2008 12:57:07 GMT -5
"Workers call meetings of certain groups, excluding others." No they don't. Unfortunately they do, Aileen. As recently as this summer In England this has again taken place. Ask around and you will find out. Thats about as non-specific as my silly answer. How about some detail to back it up?
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