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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 20:35:08 GMT -5
Why do trinitarians stop at three [concepts of God]
There must be at least 5 or 6, right?
Father, Son, Brother, Word, Spirit, Redeemer, .......how many others can we think of??
So then if any name for Jesus, is also a name for God?? As this would certainly be interchangeable with others that are the same.
I don't believe all these names refer to the same entity, even though they may well have equality, each name refers to a certain aspect or form.
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Post by XFS3PZA on Jun 22, 2006 20:37:28 GMT -5
The Godhead is not about aspects or forms. It is about the eternal God.
Stop trivializing your Lord. He is such whether you acknowledge it or not.
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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 22:11:02 GMT -5
The Godhead is not about aspects or forms. It is about the eternal God. Stop trivializing your Lord. He is such whether you acknowledge it or not. Jesus is who He is [devine, but not God] whether you believe it or not. My point is who's idea was it to stop at three, isn't that limiting . but yet I still believe that those who subscribe to the trinitarian views do it ignorantly.
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Post by NXU5SXC on Jun 22, 2006 22:15:21 GMT -5
We stop at three because that is what is revealed in Scripture
Father: Creator God Son: Creator God
Holy Spirit:
Question: "Who is the Holy Spirit?”
Answer: There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10 we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.”
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person” of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26).
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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 22:36:24 GMT -5
We stop at three because that is what is revealed in Scripture Father: Creator God Son: Creator God Holy Spirit: Question: "Who is the Holy Spirit?” Answer: There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will. The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10 we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.” We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person” of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26). So, the holy spirit came forth from God. The Son was begotten of God. This is why God is above the other beings. God never had a beginning. Jesus [Word] was with God from the beginning.....{Jesus is shown here that He came into being at the onset of creation} and thus this made possible the dialouge we are all familiar with...''Let us make man in our image'' Who do the Hebrews say that God was chatting with? {Jews do not recognize the trinity doctrine} Yes God was chatting with His beloved Son, the Word, etc. The plan for creation began with this conversation. ''Let us make....'' But as I have seen many who subscribe to trinitarian doc. , I am just asking that why not include the Word....as that is also Jesus, and Jesus is ____. therefore LOGICALLY {if that is part of this process} God is also the Word.....all 4 should then be included, if one is to subscribe to trinity, but then ...YOU may say that the Word only refers to Jesus!! So then is that to say that Jesus can be thought of separately, as well as God can be thought of seperately, also. There is an incredible amount of ambiguity in finding out who really is the ultimate resource for trinity doctrine, as every group is about to have their own private interpretation of it. I have read way to much about it already, and it still is not registering, and when I see things that don't add up, I will NOT pretend that the emperor has something on, when he doesn't. How gullible ??
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Post by Rob O on Jun 22, 2006 23:03:27 GMT -5
George/Otto/Dueg/Hummmmmm..../whatever,
First, a scripture reference for this?
Logical fallacy. You have moved from the statement that Jesus was with God at the beginning to Jesus began then. But this is illegitimate. All that can logically be concluded is that the Word and God were present together in the beginning.
But if you care to examine verse 3 you will find:
"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3, ESV)
This verse uses a positive phrase and a negative phrase. It states that all things were made through the Word, and nothing that has been made (ie.that has a beginning) was made without His agency. If Jesus had a beginning then it means at least one thing that was made, was made without His agency, namely Himself. But that is exactly the claim that John is taking pains to reject. If nothing that has a beginning, was made without the agency of the Word, then logically it follows that the the Word had no beginning. The human nature of Jesus did have a beginning. But the God nature of Jesus never had a beginning, obviously, or He could not be God.
You're not using logic, as has been demonstrated. But the reason your proposition is to be rejected is simple.....the Word is not a fourth entity. In fact, there is only one entity....God. But the entity, the essence, of God subsists in three Persons. The Word is a title belonging to the second Person.
Yes. It would be gullible for you to believe in something you can't understand or demonstrate. But your lack of comprehension of the doctrine implies nothing about the doctrine itself, only your failure to understand it and the mocking of those who subscribe to it.
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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 23:47:25 GMT -5
George/Otto/Dueg/Hummmmmm..../whatever, First, a scripture reference for this? Logical fallacy. You have moved from the statement that Jesus was with God at the beginning to Jesus began then. But this is illegitimate. All that can logically be concluded is that the Word and God were present together in the beginning. But if you care to examine verse 3 you will find: "All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3, ESV) This verse uses a positive phrase and a negative phrase. It states that all things were made through the Word, and nothing that has been made (ie.that has a beginning) was made without His agency. If Jesus had a beginning then it means at least one thing that was made, was made without His agency, namely Himself. But that is exactly the claim that John is taking pains to reject. If nothing that has a beginning, was made without the agency of the Word, then logically it follows that the the Word had no beginning. The human nature of Jesus did have a beginning. But the God nature of Jesus never had a beginning, obviously, or He could not be God. I have read too many sites to count, and the majority are self appointed biased, and does not give a full disclosure of the facts of the historical progression of the doctrine. There is speculation that someone liked three as this is a number of plurality gods in some major pagan religions. I have read that there is no reason for one to stop at three, if one is to proceed down that doctrinal road. It continues to baffle me, that you reject the concept that God does not discuss His existance in terms of ''beginning'', yet when the plan for creation entered, it certainly was the beginning og 'creation' and Jesus was with God in the Beginning. My belief is that Jesus was begotten of God, and had a beginning, and the Word which was Jesus also had a beginning... The hardest part for any mathematician is to admit that infiite eternity is unfathomable, and for eternity to exist infinitely in the past, and that time is a measurement that someDAY will cease, are some very challenging concepts, and I find an occasional musing of such matters to have a tangible inquisitive effect on my curiousity, it is far more difficult for me to comprehend God in His infiniteness and eternalness, than to understand Jesus, who is the only begotten son of God [John 3;16] thanks for trying to understand what I am saying.
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Post by FISBMR1 on Jun 23, 2006 14:32:24 GMT -5
George/Otto/Dueg/Hummmmmm..../whatever, First, a scripture reference for this? Logical fallacy. You have moved from the statement that Jesus was with God at the beginning to Jesus began then. But this is illegitimate. All that can logically be concluded is that the Word and God were present together in the beginning. But if you care to examine verse 3 you will find: "All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3, ESV) This verse uses a positive phrase and a negative phrase. It states that all things were made through the Word, and nothing that has been made (ie.that has a beginning) was made without His agency. If Jesus had a beginning then it means at least one thing that was made, was made without His agency, namely Himself. But that is exactly the claim that John is taking pains to reject. If nothing that has a beginning, was made without the agency of the Word, then logically it follows that the the Word had no beginning. The human nature of Jesus did have a beginning. But the God nature of Jesus never had a beginning, obviously, or He could not be God. I have read too many sites to count, and the majority are self appointed biased, and does not give a full disclosure of the facts of the historical progression of the doctrine.
There is speculation that someone liked three as this is a number of plurality gods in some major pagan religions. I have read that there is no reason for one to stop at three, if one is to proceed down that doctrinal road.
It continues to baffle me, that you reject the concept that God does not discuss His existance in terms of ''beginning'', yet when the plan for creation entered, it certainly was the beginning og 'creation' and Jesus was with God in the Beginning.
My belief is that Jesus was begotten of God, and had a beginning, and the Word which was Jesus also had a beginning...
The hardest part for any mathematician is to admit that infiite eternity is unfathomable, and for eternity to exist infinitely in the past, and that time is a measurement that someDAY will cease, are some very challenging concepts, and I find an occasional musing of such matters to have a tangible inquisitive effect on my curiousity, it is far more difficult for me to comprehend God in His infiniteness and eternalness, than to understand Jesus, who is the only begotten son of God [John 3;16] thanks for trying to understand what I am saying. [/b] Eternity is a long time.
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 14:51:24 GMT -5
If Jesus were not God, then explain...
If Jesus is not God, then explain...
1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8? 3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)? 4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh? 5. Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)? 6. What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God. 7. How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)? 8. How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)? 9. How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)? 10. How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)? 11. How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)? 12. How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)? 13. How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)? 14. How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)? 15. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)? 16. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21? 17. How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)? 18. How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)? 19. How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)? 20. Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.) 21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58. 22. Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14. 23. Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)? 24. Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)? 25. Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 14:59:34 GMT -5
Jesus is creator
John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
God is creator
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."
Jesus is first and last
Rev. 1:17, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.’"
Rev. 2:8, "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again."
Rev. 22:13, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
God is first and last
Isaiah 41:4, "Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD -- with the first of them and with the last -- I am he."
Isaiah 44:6, "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."
Isaiah 48:12, "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last."
Jesus is the IAM
John 8:24, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NKJV) John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" See Exodus 3:14
John 13:19, "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He.
God is the IAM
Exodus 3:14, "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
Isaiah 43:10, "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." See also Deut. 32:39
Jesus is Judge
2 Tim. 4:1, "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge..."
2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."
God is Judge
Joel 3:12, "Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side." Rom. 14:10, "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."
Jesus is king
Matt. 2:2, "...Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
Luke 23:3, "So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied." See also John 19:21
God is King
Jer. 10:10, "But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath."
Isaiah 44:6-8, "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Psalm 47
Jesus is light
John 8:12,"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Luke 2:32, "a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel." See also John 1:7-9
God is light
Psalm 27:1, "The LORD is my light and my salvation -- whom shall I fear?"
Isaiah 60:20 ,"our sun will never set again, and your moon will wane no more; the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of sorrow will end."
1 John 1:5, "God is light; in him there is no darkness at all."
Jesus is the rock
1 Cor. 10:, "...for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ." See also 1 Pet. 2:.
God is the rock
Deut. 32:4, "He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he." See also 2 Sam. 22:32 and Isaiah 17:10.
Jesus is savior
John 4:24, "They said to the woman, ‘We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.’"
1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."
God is savior
Isaiah 43:3, "For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior"
Isaiah 45:21, "...And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me."
Jesus is the shepherd
John 10:11, "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."
Heb. 13:20, "May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep," See also John 10:14,16; 1 Pet. 2:25
God is the shepherd
Psalm 23:1, "The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want."
Isaiah 40:11, "He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young."
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 16:18:43 GMT -5
If Jesus were not God, then explain... If Jesus is not God, then explain... 1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does... Interesting... PLAGIARIZED from... www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusquestions.htm
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 16:37:20 GMT -5
LOL... oh no... I'm caught red handed... OH BUT WAIT... what does the carm website say? Copyright by Matthew J. Slick. 1999, 2000, 2002, 2006. All rights reserved. Please feel free to copy and distribute this material. Please do not sell or alter the text.
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 16:52:13 GMT -5
LOL... oh no... I'm caught red handed... OH BUT WAIT... what does the carm website say? Copyright by Matthew J. Slick. 1999, 2000, 2002, 2006. All rights reserved. Please feel free to copy and distribute this material. Please do not sell or alter the text.That is the permission given to do so, yet you are required to give the credits following the posting or copying of such material!
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 17:32:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I missed where it says that on the carm website... could you point it out to me...
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 17:39:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I missed where it says that on the carm website... could you point it out to me... On the CARM? NO English 101, perhaps I can!
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 17:41:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I missed where it says that on the carm website... could you point it out to me... On the CARM? NO English 101, perhaps I can! please... if you could...
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Post by Good grief on Jun 23, 2006 17:47:09 GMT -5
Children, children...can you run along now? Syd, I hate to break it to you, but Nathan has been proven to be a plagirist. The real kind. Claiming others writings as his own. What you've got your panties in a bunch about here is just basic copying and pasting. No one is trying to claim credit for themselves. Your support of Nathan is duly noted, but Dude, this is getting old.
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 17:54:51 GMT -5
On the CARM? NO English 101, perhaps I can! please... if you could... Plagiarism is the passing off of another person's work as if it were one's own, by claiming credit for writing that was actually done by someone else. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Definition) Plagiarism is different than copyright infringment. Plagiarism is not necessarily the same as copyright infringement, which occurs when one violates copyright law. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing) "Three acts are plagiarism: (1) failing to cite quotations and borrowed ideas, (2) failing to enclose borrowed language in quotation marks and (3) failing to put summaries and paraphrases in your own words." ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Types)
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 17:57:49 GMT -5
well then contact carm.org and have me brought up on charges...
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 17:59:35 GMT -5
well then contact carm.org and have me brought up on charges... This isnt about right or wrong, rather it is about having different expectation of others when you arent willing to follow your own expectations.
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Post by To IQ on Jun 23, 2006 18:04:41 GMT -5
Plagiarism is the passing off of another person's work as if it were one's own, by claiming credit for writing that was actually done by someone else. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Definition)
Plagiarism is different than copyright infringment.
Plagiarism is not necessarily the same as copyright infringement, which occurs when one violates copyright law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing)
"Three acts are plagiarism: (1) failing to cite quotations and borrowed ideas, (2) failing to enclose borrowed language in quotation marks and (3) failing to put summaries and paraphrases in your own words." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Types)
I couldn't help but notice that you didn't properly identify your source for this information. Heres your own words: you are required to give the credits following the posting or copying of such material! Ouch.
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 18:09:35 GMT -5
This isnt about right or wrong, rather it is about having different expectation of others when you arent willing to follow your own expectations. Three things… 1. apples and oranges 2. There is no context for my comments regarding what other people (Nathan) have said, so your posts are nothing more then that of a troll attempting to prove some meaningless point. 3. You have done the exact same thing in the past... So I feel quite comfortable calling you a hypocrite.
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 18:14:49 GMT -5
Plagiarism is the passing off of another person's work as if it were one's own, by claiming credit for writing that was actually done by someone else. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Definition)
Plagiarism is different than copyright infringment.
Plagiarism is not necessarily the same as copyright infringement, which occurs when one violates copyright law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing)
"Three acts are plagiarism: (1) failing to cite quotations and borrowed ideas, (2) failing to enclose borrowed language in quotation marks and (3) failing to put summaries and paraphrases in your own words." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarizing#Types)I couldn't help but notice that you didn't properly identify your source for this information. Heres your own words: you are required to give the credits following the posting or copying of such material! Ouch. What is contained in the links included in the set of parentheses?
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 18:15:25 GMT -5
Back to the topic at hand...
If Jesus is not God, then explain...
1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8? 3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)? 4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh? 5. Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)? 6. What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God. 7. How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)? 8. How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)? 9. How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)? 10. How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)? 11. How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)? 12. How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)? 13. How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)? 14. How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)? 15. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)? 16. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21? 17. How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)? 18. How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)? 19. How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)? 20. Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.) 21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58. 22. Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14. 23. Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)? 24. Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)? 25. Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 18:20:15 GMT -5
This isnt about right or wrong, rather it is about having different expectation of others when you arent willing to follow your own expectations. "...3. You have done the exact same thing in the past... So I feel quite comfortable calling you a hypocrite." If so, do you feel comfortable riding on my coattail? Is this your only defense?
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Jun 23, 2006 18:21:48 GMT -5
This isnt about right or wrong, rather it is about having different expectation of others when you arent willing to follow your own expectations. "...3. You have done the exact same thing in the past... So I feel quite comfortable calling you a hypocrite." If so, do you feel comfortable riding on my coattail? Is this your only defense? Yes and yes... are we done yet?
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Jun 23, 2006 18:25:04 GMT -5
Back to the topic at hand... If Jesus is not God, then explain... 1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8? 3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)? 4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh? 5. Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)? 6. What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God. 7. How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)? 8. How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)? 9. How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)? 10. How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)? 11. How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)? 12. How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)? 13. How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)? 14. How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)? 15. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)? 16. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21? 17. How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)? 18. How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)? 19. How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)? 20. Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.) 21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58. 22. Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14. 23. Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)? 24. Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)? 25. Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)? The original topic is this:Why do trinitarians stop at three [concepts of God]
There must be at least 5 or 6, right?
Father, Son, Brother, Word, Spirit, Redeemer, .......how many others can we think of??
So then if any name for Jesus, is also a name for God?? As this would certainly be interchangeable with others that are the same.
I don't believe all these names refer to the same entity, even though they may well have equality, each name refers to a certain aspect or form.Why are you hijacking this topic with your agenda and questions copied and pasted from another site?
Why not leave the link and let the reader choose to go and answer them for themselves?
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 23, 2006 18:30:08 GMT -5
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