Post by ariandgabe on Nov 8, 2008 12:52:26 GMT -5
WHAT CHURCH DO YOU BELONG TO?
Why then do the Baptists meet with Baptists, Methodists with Methodist,CMA with CMA etc. Why don't they have one big congregation and all be united as brethern. In our town we had a big split in the Methodist Church because there was an argument
over whether the hymns should in spiritual rock or contemporary.
Yes, ….. finally more are getting it. As I too have asked many times; If ANY of these churches were really a part of Christ’s body, commanded by the head which is Christ, they would be out there seeking and searching to find ‘others who are like minded’ like I am doing.
Two denominations could be next to each other for a hundred years, side by side and NEVER bother to UNITE, and share the fellowship of their fellow believers so they could fulfill the request of;
Heb 10:25
“25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.” but you expect me to just ‘join’ a church that I find contradicting and misinterpreting many of Christ’s teachings. Can’t you see the hypocrisy in that?
Why? As the above Brother has mentioned of the ‘big split’, instead of uniting with others, they themselves are splitting. Why?
Because of a little deviation in the interpretation of the Scriptures, THAT’S WHY.
Look at this hypocrisy Scott, why aren’t you asking those that have been together for fifty years and then split, and now don’t even talk to each other the question you keep asking me; ‘What church do you belong to?’
Which one is the right one, that ‘true church’? It is obvious that whatever separated them, was important enough where they refuse to share the love and fellowship that Christians are commended to share, and you want me to join them?
If they cannot be together here on earth, is the Lord going to ‘force them’ to be together for an eternity in heaven?
NEVER.
1 John 2:9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
NKJV
No my dear friends, we cannot just ‘join’ any church, because no one is perfect. God IS perfect and he devised a church that Jesus is the Head of. THAT IS the true church. Its members are scattered here and there, most of them left their bodies already and many are still here with us somewhere, and I am looking for them.
NOT like the split Baptist Church (I just picked one), one goes this way and the other that way and you toss a coin and say I think ‘this one’ is the right one, so you join with that one.
Listen to this:
Let’s say there were ten people in a town, you and nine others who would go out in a field every Sunday and each one would read the Bible, sing some hymns, kneel down to pray, all doing the same thing, using the same Bible, wouldn’t you be drawn to go up to one of them and say; ‘hey I noticed you reading from the same Bible I am, singing the same song and I overheard you praying to the same God I am praying to. How about we get together and fellowship together?
Even if you are the weakest of Christians, you would be drawn to the others by a LOVE that is beyond understanding. You could NOT bare the separation even for ONE Sunday, not alone a whole life time.
When Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, and then to the Church in Rome, he didn’t give one message to one and a different message and instruction to another.
He didn’t say; hey Corinth, I know you believe in the ‘trinity’ doctrine, so I will not mention or use words that might offend you like; ‘Jesus is the Son of God’ or ‘My Father is greater then I’ or ‘everything I hear my Father tech me, I tell you. Whatever HE says I do’ or when He prayed to the Father; ‘36 And He said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will." Mark 14:36
but will leave that and many other parts that identify Jesus as the ‘only begotten Son ‘of’ God out for you.
Now for you, the Church in Rome I write;
I know you don’t believe that Jesus and His Father are strong enough and powerful enough to defend your country, not even your home, so I will not mention to you what Jesus taught about; ‘loving your enemies, doing good to them that hate you, pray for them that despitefully use you’, because it would offend you.
So here is YOUR version of scripture; ‘bear arms at all costs. Vote for a good Roman citizen as your leader, and if you have two who do not believe in our Lord Jesus and His teachings, just pick the better of the two, the one that pleases ‘your’ way of living. And oh yes, you don’t have to forgive your brother who killed your cow but cannot pay you back because he has ten kids and is barely making ends-meat, but take him to court and lock him up until he pays the ‘last penny’. I will not burden you with rhetoric like; ‘turn the other cheek’ because you are Romans, a proud nation who must stand firm and strong, ruling the world is not easy I know. So just ignore what Jesus said to the Jews in;
Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." NKJV That was just for those Jews not to you oh great Romans.
No my dear friends, that is NOT how God is, He is the same yesterday, today and forever and His Word shall NEVER go away or change to mans ‘choice’ of doctrine.
If a church cannot tolerate each other to a point that they had to ‘separate’, something is wrong with either ONE, or BOTH of them. ONE of them is definitely NOT the right one my dear friend, so joining that one will not make you part of the ‘Body of Christ’.
Matt 12:25
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
NKJV
Why can’t you understand, that all these denominations who are content with one going to this church and the other to that, are NOT governed by the Head which is Christ. If they were;
1. They would forgive one another, not once but seventy times seven in ONE day. So separation would be IMPOSSIBLE for them if truly the Head is Jesus Christ and what He taught.
2. If Christ was the HEAD, then they could NOT tolerate all those other so called Christian friends going to a church they themselves would NOT go to. They would tell them that; ‘the Word of God can never be ‘split’ where one interprets it one way, and the other another way. We Christians HAVE to be one in ‘heart, soul AND mind. If we cannot do that HERE on earth, then surely God will not force us to do it in heaven.
Instead, you say; ‘Hey, who are we to judge? If they want to misinterpret the Bible, fine. If they want to delete where it says; “.. all sinners, including those that practice homosexuality will be cast out into eternal darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” let them. I will still respect and honor love them, and I don’t care WHAT this Jesus thinks and said about that. I believe in this ‘Trinity’ god, where Jesus is NOT the ‘begotten’ of anything, just like the Muslims said; ‘God cannot beget or be begotten’.
Ariandgabe, maybe YOU feel like the Lord brought you to us, but if you approach everyone with that attitude, all it's going to do is turn most people off. I'm sure you don't intend to, but it sounds like you're lifting yourself up as some kind of prophet and you think we're all a bunch of criminals stuck in a cult. It feels like you're judging us, and you don't personally know any of us, nor do you know anything about our private relationship with our Saviour.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I tell you the truth when I say that your last quote is ALWAYS there on my mind when I talk or write. So tell me this, if the Spirit is telling me things to tell you that you find ‘hurtful’ and ‘offensive’, am I to just turn Him off and NOT tell you those parts for the fear that “all it's going to do is turn most people off”?
John 15:18-20
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. NKJV
I tell it as gently as I can, and what I say IS driven by LOVE for your soul salvation, you aught to have seen it by now. But no matter HOW gently I quote; Matt 8:12
12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And other scripture like it, it will offend those that cherish living in their sins.
I say these things in LOVE, (why else would I spend so many hours searching, praying for you)
with JOY (knowing that I and those that heed these words will share a blessed ETERNITY)
in PEACE (I would love to have all of you from different denominations JOIN me in the LIVING church of God whose head is none other then Jesus Christ and HIS WORD as is in the Bible)
PATIENCE (I keep going over and over the same questions you have with different examples to lead you back to Gods Word as is written. Like the trinity concept that is nowhere even hinted on in scripture)
KINDNESS (I have and do apologize to anyone I have ever offended. For those that get offended by what I quote and call it ‘hiding behind God and throwing stones’, I pray for. But remember this: You will NOT find anyone in heaven weeping and feeling sorry for ANYONE of those billions who have been cast into outer darkness and are being tormented day and night forever and ever, even if it’s your own child suffering there.
So don’t expect me to show kindness to sin, nor some kind of ‘understanding’ for it either, because that will never happen.
Jesus didn’t show kindness to sin, or the man who was content to remain in sin. On the cross He forgave only ONE man, the one that confessed that he was a guilty sinner, the other was not promised to be with Him in Paradise, yet both were crucified and punished for their crimes alike. So don’t give me that ‘be nice’ to Genes problem and others that mock the Word of God. As I said, Jesus wasn’t ‘nice’ to the other thief on the cross either.
GOODNESS (I’ll just quote this; “Why you call me good, no one is good except God” so please forgive me on this one, but I am trying, I really am)
FAITHFULNESS (I do believe that some of you here who has not yet, but will come to see the light. I believe in miracles, walking on water, raising the dead, and that I could do these things also if I had faith the size of a mustard seed.)
GENTLENESS (I have not beaten up another human in 15-20 years. I do need more of that in my speech)
AND SELF CONTROLL (All these are the ‘fruit of the Spirit’ and NOT all my own doing. To be able for a guy like me to sit here and bear the pain and continue searching, seeking to answer all my own and your questions is truly the Spirits sign of ‘self Control’ in me. I give all the glory to God for that.)
Why then do the Baptists meet with Baptists, Methodists with Methodist,CMA with CMA etc. Why don't they have one big congregation and all be united as brethern. In our town we had a big split in the Methodist Church because there was an argument
over whether the hymns should in spiritual rock or contemporary.
Yes, ….. finally more are getting it. As I too have asked many times; If ANY of these churches were really a part of Christ’s body, commanded by the head which is Christ, they would be out there seeking and searching to find ‘others who are like minded’ like I am doing.
Two denominations could be next to each other for a hundred years, side by side and NEVER bother to UNITE, and share the fellowship of their fellow believers so they could fulfill the request of;
Heb 10:25
“25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.” but you expect me to just ‘join’ a church that I find contradicting and misinterpreting many of Christ’s teachings. Can’t you see the hypocrisy in that?
Why? As the above Brother has mentioned of the ‘big split’, instead of uniting with others, they themselves are splitting. Why?
Because of a little deviation in the interpretation of the Scriptures, THAT’S WHY.
Look at this hypocrisy Scott, why aren’t you asking those that have been together for fifty years and then split, and now don’t even talk to each other the question you keep asking me; ‘What church do you belong to?’
Which one is the right one, that ‘true church’? It is obvious that whatever separated them, was important enough where they refuse to share the love and fellowship that Christians are commended to share, and you want me to join them?
If they cannot be together here on earth, is the Lord going to ‘force them’ to be together for an eternity in heaven?
NEVER.
1 John 2:9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
NKJV
No my dear friends, we cannot just ‘join’ any church, because no one is perfect. God IS perfect and he devised a church that Jesus is the Head of. THAT IS the true church. Its members are scattered here and there, most of them left their bodies already and many are still here with us somewhere, and I am looking for them.
NOT like the split Baptist Church (I just picked one), one goes this way and the other that way and you toss a coin and say I think ‘this one’ is the right one, so you join with that one.
Listen to this:
Let’s say there were ten people in a town, you and nine others who would go out in a field every Sunday and each one would read the Bible, sing some hymns, kneel down to pray, all doing the same thing, using the same Bible, wouldn’t you be drawn to go up to one of them and say; ‘hey I noticed you reading from the same Bible I am, singing the same song and I overheard you praying to the same God I am praying to. How about we get together and fellowship together?
Even if you are the weakest of Christians, you would be drawn to the others by a LOVE that is beyond understanding. You could NOT bare the separation even for ONE Sunday, not alone a whole life time.
When Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, and then to the Church in Rome, he didn’t give one message to one and a different message and instruction to another.
He didn’t say; hey Corinth, I know you believe in the ‘trinity’ doctrine, so I will not mention or use words that might offend you like; ‘Jesus is the Son of God’ or ‘My Father is greater then I’ or ‘everything I hear my Father tech me, I tell you. Whatever HE says I do’ or when He prayed to the Father; ‘36 And He said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will." Mark 14:36
but will leave that and many other parts that identify Jesus as the ‘only begotten Son ‘of’ God out for you.
Now for you, the Church in Rome I write;
I know you don’t believe that Jesus and His Father are strong enough and powerful enough to defend your country, not even your home, so I will not mention to you what Jesus taught about; ‘loving your enemies, doing good to them that hate you, pray for them that despitefully use you’, because it would offend you.
So here is YOUR version of scripture; ‘bear arms at all costs. Vote for a good Roman citizen as your leader, and if you have two who do not believe in our Lord Jesus and His teachings, just pick the better of the two, the one that pleases ‘your’ way of living. And oh yes, you don’t have to forgive your brother who killed your cow but cannot pay you back because he has ten kids and is barely making ends-meat, but take him to court and lock him up until he pays the ‘last penny’. I will not burden you with rhetoric like; ‘turn the other cheek’ because you are Romans, a proud nation who must stand firm and strong, ruling the world is not easy I know. So just ignore what Jesus said to the Jews in;
Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." NKJV That was just for those Jews not to you oh great Romans.
No my dear friends, that is NOT how God is, He is the same yesterday, today and forever and His Word shall NEVER go away or change to mans ‘choice’ of doctrine.
If a church cannot tolerate each other to a point that they had to ‘separate’, something is wrong with either ONE, or BOTH of them. ONE of them is definitely NOT the right one my dear friend, so joining that one will not make you part of the ‘Body of Christ’.
Matt 12:25
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
NKJV
Why can’t you understand, that all these denominations who are content with one going to this church and the other to that, are NOT governed by the Head which is Christ. If they were;
1. They would forgive one another, not once but seventy times seven in ONE day. So separation would be IMPOSSIBLE for them if truly the Head is Jesus Christ and what He taught.
2. If Christ was the HEAD, then they could NOT tolerate all those other so called Christian friends going to a church they themselves would NOT go to. They would tell them that; ‘the Word of God can never be ‘split’ where one interprets it one way, and the other another way. We Christians HAVE to be one in ‘heart, soul AND mind. If we cannot do that HERE on earth, then surely God will not force us to do it in heaven.
Instead, you say; ‘Hey, who are we to judge? If they want to misinterpret the Bible, fine. If they want to delete where it says; “.. all sinners, including those that practice homosexuality will be cast out into eternal darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” let them. I will still respect and honor love them, and I don’t care WHAT this Jesus thinks and said about that. I believe in this ‘Trinity’ god, where Jesus is NOT the ‘begotten’ of anything, just like the Muslims said; ‘God cannot beget or be begotten’.
Ariandgabe, maybe YOU feel like the Lord brought you to us, but if you approach everyone with that attitude, all it's going to do is turn most people off. I'm sure you don't intend to, but it sounds like you're lifting yourself up as some kind of prophet and you think we're all a bunch of criminals stuck in a cult. It feels like you're judging us, and you don't personally know any of us, nor do you know anything about our private relationship with our Saviour.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I tell you the truth when I say that your last quote is ALWAYS there on my mind when I talk or write. So tell me this, if the Spirit is telling me things to tell you that you find ‘hurtful’ and ‘offensive’, am I to just turn Him off and NOT tell you those parts for the fear that “all it's going to do is turn most people off”?
John 15:18-20
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. NKJV
I tell it as gently as I can, and what I say IS driven by LOVE for your soul salvation, you aught to have seen it by now. But no matter HOW gently I quote; Matt 8:12
12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And other scripture like it, it will offend those that cherish living in their sins.
I say these things in LOVE, (why else would I spend so many hours searching, praying for you)
with JOY (knowing that I and those that heed these words will share a blessed ETERNITY)
in PEACE (I would love to have all of you from different denominations JOIN me in the LIVING church of God whose head is none other then Jesus Christ and HIS WORD as is in the Bible)
PATIENCE (I keep going over and over the same questions you have with different examples to lead you back to Gods Word as is written. Like the trinity concept that is nowhere even hinted on in scripture)
KINDNESS (I have and do apologize to anyone I have ever offended. For those that get offended by what I quote and call it ‘hiding behind God and throwing stones’, I pray for. But remember this: You will NOT find anyone in heaven weeping and feeling sorry for ANYONE of those billions who have been cast into outer darkness and are being tormented day and night forever and ever, even if it’s your own child suffering there.
So don’t expect me to show kindness to sin, nor some kind of ‘understanding’ for it either, because that will never happen.
Jesus didn’t show kindness to sin, or the man who was content to remain in sin. On the cross He forgave only ONE man, the one that confessed that he was a guilty sinner, the other was not promised to be with Him in Paradise, yet both were crucified and punished for their crimes alike. So don’t give me that ‘be nice’ to Genes problem and others that mock the Word of God. As I said, Jesus wasn’t ‘nice’ to the other thief on the cross either.
GOODNESS (I’ll just quote this; “Why you call me good, no one is good except God” so please forgive me on this one, but I am trying, I really am)
FAITHFULNESS (I do believe that some of you here who has not yet, but will come to see the light. I believe in miracles, walking on water, raising the dead, and that I could do these things also if I had faith the size of a mustard seed.)
GENTLENESS (I have not beaten up another human in 15-20 years. I do need more of that in my speech)
AND SELF CONTROLL (All these are the ‘fruit of the Spirit’ and NOT all my own doing. To be able for a guy like me to sit here and bear the pain and continue searching, seeking to answer all my own and your questions is truly the Spirits sign of ‘self Control’ in me. I give all the glory to God for that.)