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Post by to babes revealed on Apr 29, 2008 11:48:29 GMT -5
So you were not a 2x2. If you were you would know the scripture and the hymn quoting
The brightest intellect of men Is dark and fails to see "from them tis hid to babes revealed, a little flock of poor.
Were you really in the way, Multitude Guest?
It is all about what people believe, not who started a trend or a way or a doctrine.
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Post by Multitude on Apr 29, 2008 14:21:53 GMT -5
Wrong!
I was a 2x2. I know scripture and I can quote hymns old and new all day. But what's the point of hymn quoting? If you read the previous correspondence carefully it wasn't about what the hymn said, it was what the hymn meant. Perhaps you, the quote queen, can tell me what it means in an unambiguous manner?
As for belief, I believed it all. The exclusiveness, the only way, the meeting in the home, the preacher without a home, Willie Pollock's stump theory, the living witness doctrine, the false churches, the 2x2 interpretation of scripture, the whole bizarre baptism ritual and the suppposed righteousness of the workers. I believed the entire lot. But so what? I don't believe any of it now any more than I believe in the tooth fairy.
I know it's convenient for you to say that it's not about who started a trend, a way or a doctrine. But this is pure 2x2 claptrap put about only because they want to cover up the fact that the 2x2 system was founded by a man who was proven to be slightly mad hence his arrival in Jerusalem claiming to be one of the two witnesses referred to in the Book of Revelations. Dress it up whatever way you like but the poor man was nuttier than a fruit cake!
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Apr 30, 2008 0:17:39 GMT -5
I merely discovered that much of what I'd been told was untrue and the so-called 'Truth' was in fact a great big lie. And not only a lie, but when I confronted the hierarchy with the facts they denied them, like a child caught in the act denying having been in the sweet shop, while chocolate ice cream drips all the way down its chin. So what did it in the end? If you managed to duck and weave around the stump theory, still believing, then there must have been a moment when you had the mental equivalent of being hit on the head with a big stick. /caith clubbed some years ago [edited to fix my failed attempts at snipping text]
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Post by Put you off on May 10, 2008 3:17:13 GMT -5
Wrong! I was a 2x2. I know scripture and I can quote hymns old and new all day. But what's the point of hymn quoting? If you read the previous correspondence carefully it wasn't about what the hymn said, it was what the hymn meant. Perhaps you, the quote queen, can tell me what it means in an unambiguous manner? As for belief, I believed it all. The exclusiveness, the only way, the meeting in the home, the preacher without a home, Willie Pollock's stump theory, the living witness doctrine, the false churches, the 2x2 interpretation of scripture, the whole bizarre baptism ritual and the suppposed righteousness of the workers. I believed the entire lot. But so what? I don't believe any of it now any more than I believe in the tooth fairy. I know it's convenient for you to say that it's not about who started a trend, a way or a doctrine. But this is pure 2x2 claptrap put about only because they want to cover up the fact that the 2x2 system was founded by a man who was proven to be slightly mad hence his arrival in Jerusalem claiming to be one of the two witnesses referred to in the Book of Revelations. Dress it up whatever way you like but the poor man was nuttier than a fruit cake! So you let a complete nutter put you off all the other things that you truly believed??? Sounds nutty to me!
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Post by Multitude on May 10, 2008 11:05:39 GMT -5
Put you off
I think that if you wish to engage in meaningful debate you should at least make some attempt to set out your argument in a coherent manner. I have no idea what point you are trying to make much less understand what the other things are that I truely believed and in respect of which you claim I have supposedly been "put off".
Cathy
I like to think the moment I was hit over the head with a big stick was when I was about three or four and that it took me over twenty years to recover!
I think the main factor that did it for me in the end was gaining access to the information on the websites. How anyone could continue after realising that (despite denials to the contrary) we were indeed the Cooneyites, and therefore exactly the same people who were responsible for the embarrassing antics of the Tramp preachers in the early days, is a mystery to me. Having learned how the group was formed and how it behaved in the early days, it soon became obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse that the idea that this particular religious sect could possibly have any serious claim to be the Only Way was completely ridiculous.
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Post by ex-teenager on May 11, 2008 4:05:21 GMT -5
Put you off I think that if you wish to engage in meaningful debate you should at least make some attempt to set out your argument in a coherent manner. I have no idea what point you are trying to make much less understand what the other things are that I truely believed and in respect of which you claim I have supposedly been "put off". Cathy I like to think the moment I was hit over the head with a big stick was when I was about three or four and that it took me over twenty years to recover! I think the main factor that did it for me in the end was gaining access to the information on the websites. How anyone could continue after realising that (despite denials to the contrary) we were indeed the Cooneyites, and therefore exactly the same people who were responsible for the embarrassing antics of the Tramp preachers in the early days, is a mystery to me. Having learned how the group was formed and how it behaved in the early days, it soon became obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse that the idea that this particular religious sect could possibly have any serious claim to be the Only Way was completely ridiculous. Going to meetings isn't going to save anyone - from what you say it seems that you thought going to meetings meant you were in the only Way. Believing in Jesus Christ is what saves us, he is the only Way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 5:13:12 GMT -5
Teenager, in a strong sense, most if not all workers believe that going to meetings saves you.
Workers will tell you (and YOU will have heard this) that meetings are like spiritual meals. If you miss one meeting, that may be okay, but it is like missing a meal. You go hungry (spritually speaking). If you miss a series of meetings you will starve and eventually die spiritually if you miss meetings over a protracted period of time.
Meetings plus gospel missions is where the spiritual nourishment is to be had. Your salvation depends upon getting to every meeting possible, hence only death or serious illness are about the only acceptable reasons for a person not getting to a meeting.
Accepting Jesus into your life, having a personal relationship with God, etc, are only acceptable to the worker mindset within the context of following the workers and getting to every meeting possible.
Those that do this are part of the inner core of "professing and possessing." Weaker members of the group are usually considered to be professing but not possessing.
This all comes from substituting the two commandments of Jesus, to love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love our neighbour as ourself, with, love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love the church in the home and the ministry without a home as ourself.
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Post by ex-teenager on May 11, 2008 6:47:05 GMT -5
Teenager, in a strong sense, most if not all workers believe that going to meetings saves you. Workers will tell you (and YOU will have heard this) that meetings are like spiritual meals. If you miss one meeting, that may be okay, but it is like missing a meal. You go hungry (spritually speaking). If you miss a series of meetings you will starve and eventually die spiritually if you miss meetings over a protracted period of time. Meetings plus gospel missions is where the spiritual nourishment is to be had. Your salvation depends upon getting to every meeting possible, hence only death or serious illness are about the only acceptable reasons for a person not getting to a meeting. Accepting Jesus into your life, having a personal relationship with God, etc, are only acceptable to the worker mindset within the context of following the workers and getting to every meeting possible. Those that do this are part of the inner core of "professing and possessing." Weaker members of the group are usually considered to be professing but not possessing. This all comes from substituting the two commandments of Jesus, to love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love our neighbour as ourself, with, love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love the church in the home and the ministry without a home as ourself. Funny how you would say that, when I have heard even the most "hearty" (for want of a better word) workers have said that we could go to every meeting, every convention take part in them and still not possess the Spirit. Does that sound like meetings save you? Getting to meetings is usually something one desires to do when professing. Its called a love of fellowship and wanting to gather with other like-minded/Spirited people to remeber our Savour and share the thoughts that have kept us going through the weak. Fellowship is a possitive thing. There may be concern if a person misses meetings, but if it is like a meal as you suggest... then any caring person would like to help their brother or sister in Christ.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 7:31:55 GMT -5
Teenager, in a strong sense, most if not all workers believe that going to meetings saves you. Workers will tell you (and YOU will have heard this) that meetings are like spiritual meals. If you miss one meeting, that may be okay, but it is like missing a meal. You go hungry (spritually speaking). If you miss a series of meetings you will starve and eventually die spiritually if you miss meetings over a protracted period of time. Meetings plus gospel missions is where the spiritual nourishment is to be had. Your salvation depends upon getting to every meeting possible, hence only death or serious illness are about the only acceptable reasons for a person not getting to a meeting. Accepting Jesus into your life, having a personal relationship with God, etc, are only acceptable to the worker mindset within the context of following the workers and getting to every meeting possible. Those that do this are part of the inner core of "professing and possessing." Weaker members of the group are usually considered to be professing but not possessing. This all comes from substituting the two commandments of Jesus, to love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love our neighbour as ourself, with, love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to love the church in the home and the ministry without a home as ourself. Funny how you would say that, when I have heard even the most "hearty" (for want of a better word) workers have said that we could go to every meeting, every convention take part in them and still not possess the Spirit. Does that sound like meetings save you? Getting to meetings is usually something one desires to do when professing. Its called a love of fellowship and wanting to gather with other like-minded/Spirited people to remeber our Savour and share the thoughts that have kept us going through the weak. Fellowship is a possitive thing. There may be concern if a person misses meetings, but if it is like a meal as you suggest... then any caring person would like to help their brother or sister in Christ. Teenager, you embolden my point completely. The workers way is the Jesus Plus syndrome.
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Post by ex-teenager on May 11, 2008 10:47:57 GMT -5
Never in my post did I say Ye must go to a fellowship meeting. Only then would it be a Jesus Plus... You obviously have your own steriotypical view on things?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 11:23:21 GMT -5
Never in my post did I say Ye must go to a fellowship meeting. Only then would it be a Jesus Plus... You obviously have your own steriotypical view on things? Teenager, I'm not stereotyping you ! I'm stereotyping workers. It is impossible for things to be otherwise, since they generally do not act independently. Most matters are deferred to those higher up the worker heirarchy, therefore most decisions are part of the group think tank.
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Post by Multitude on May 11, 2008 14:45:22 GMT -5
Put you off Going to meetings isn't going to save anyone - from what you say it seems that you thought going to meetings meant you were in the only Way. Believing in Jesus Christ is what saves us, he is the only Way. YES! Teenager I did think I was in the Only Way. This is what they told me from the pulpit and being the good boy I was I believed them. They told me that I had to profess in one of their meetings in order to to be saved. Are you telling me they were deceiving me? Of course merely going to meetings was never to save you by itself; you had to do more than that. It was never quite clear exactly what you had to do but it included continuing to go to meetings, obeying the workers and sticking to the rules. I was continually amazed at convention by the number of people who felt they hadn't lived up to the standard - in fact I used to wonder would anyone other than the workers be saved. Which makes a lot of sense now. Always set the bar a bit too high and that'll keep everyone striving. Are you telling me that going to meetings is completely irrelevant nowadays and that one can be saved solely through believing in JC? Even if they attend the catholic or presbyterian churches? Is this now the offical 2x2 line as publicly stated by Tommie Gamble? Or are you having a laugh at Mr Gamble's expense?
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Claire
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Post by Claire on May 15, 2008 5:08:13 GMT -5
How anyone could continue after realising that (despite denials to the contrary) we were indeed the Cooneyites, and therefore exactly the same people who were responsible for the embarrassing antics of the Tramp preachers in the early days, is a mystery to me. Having learned how the group was formed and how it behaved in the early days, it soon became obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse that the idea that this particular religious sect could possibly have any serious claim to be the Only Way was completely ridiculous. it's quite a moment, isn't it, when all the new information clicks into place. is it generally talked about among the Friends? How does TG cope with people discussing it? /c
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Post by aileen on May 15, 2008 10:37:03 GMT -5
Multitude: "I was continually amazed at convention by the number of people who felt they hadn't lived up to the standard - in fact I used to wonder would anyone other than the workers be saved. Which makes a lot of sense now. Always set the bar a bit too high and that'll keep everyone striving. "
Are claiming that there are some who do meet the standard?
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Post by gill on May 15, 2008 17:15:51 GMT -5
Multitude: "I was continually amazed at convention by the number of people who felt they hadn't lived up to the standard - in fact I used to wonder would anyone other than the workers be saved. Which makes a lot of sense now. Always set the bar a bit too high and that'll keep everyone striving. " Are claiming that there are some who do meet the standard? Of course there are some that meet the standard. I can think of at least half a dozen couples. Whether or not they meet the standard of Jesus is an entirely different matter and one would hazzard a guess that they don't, otherwise they would have no need of Christ's saving Grace.
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Post by Not true on May 17, 2008 18:05:01 GMT -5
Put you off Going to meetings isn't going to save anyone - from what you say it seems that you thought going to meetings meant you were in the only Way. Believing in Jesus Christ is what saves us, he is the only Way. YES! Teenager I did think I was in the Only Way. This is what they told me from the pulpit and being the good boy I was I believed them. They told me that I had to profess in one of their meetings in order to to be saved. Are you telling me they were deceiving me? Of course merely going to meetings was never to save you by itself; you had to do more than that. It was never quite clear exactly what you had to do but it included continuing to go to meetings, obeying the workers and sticking to the rules. I was continually amazed at convention by the number of people who felt they hadn't lived up to the standard - in fact I used to wonder would anyone other than the workers be saved. Which makes a lot of sense now. Always set the bar a bit too high and that'll keep everyone striving. Are you telling me that going to meetings is completely irrelevant nowadays and that one can be saved solely through believing in JC? Even if they attend the catholic or presbyterian churches? Is this now the offical 2x2 line as publicly stated by Tommie Gamble? Or are you having a laugh at Mr Gamble's expense? What pulpit? The workers never use a pulpit. Yu are confused Multitude Guest! You are a dab hand at twisting words and intentions. The workers must have been relieved when you quit!!!
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Post by aileen on May 18, 2008 6:56:29 GMT -5
There are none who meet the standard.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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Post by Multitude on May 18, 2008 8:05:17 GMT -5
pul·pit (plpt, pl-) n.
1. An elevated platform, lectern, or stand used in preaching or conducting a religious service
Not True
I'm afraid that you're wrong on that one matey. I've provided the defintition of 'pulpit' for your benefit above so that next time you're in Ireland you can look closely at the front of the convention tent and ponder. And then come back and have a proper debate on the issue of my quitting or anything else 2x2 related that occurs to you. Of course that's if you're capable of engaging in debate. I get the feeling that you're more comfortable hurling cheap shots from the periphery thereby betraying signs of your own confusion . Much better to remain silent and be thought a fool remember ......... you know the rest.
Multitude
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Post by Pamela on May 18, 2008 13:38:38 GMT -5
Teenager said {quote.......................................
There may be concern if a person misses meetings, but if it is like a meal as you suggest... then any caring person would like to help their brother or sister in Christ.[/quote]
That is exactly the point, you have nailed it, teenager. Any caring person would, but THE WORKERS and indeed some FRIENDS don't care once a person has doubts, they shun, avoid, ostrocise, whatever. They are not the caring, love your neighbour people Jesus called to follow him. Are they?
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Post by Alana on May 18, 2008 13:40:25 GMT -5
so............have we missed it or where and when is the EX Convention going to take place and can anybody come?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2008 15:14:34 GMT -5
A meeting up of people who have been in or are still in the F&W's way would be good. I don't know if such a thing will ever take place in the UK.
However, anyone either in or out is welcome to drop by my house for a day or two. I am willing to discuss any issues with them and treat everything with the utmost confidentiality.
Any worker, friend or former member who would like a trusted friendly ear would be received in the best of spirit. I stay in Fife, Scotland, which is the Garden of Eden.
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Post by con or ex con on May 19, 2008 14:48:20 GMT -5
A meeting up of people who have been in or are still in the F&W's way would be good. I don't know if such a thing will ever take place in the UK. Meetings of people who are still in the F&W take place every week. Surely the idea of an ex convention is exactly that - it is for the benefit of exes who obviously wouldn't normally get the opportunity to meet any more? I guess that if you wish to meet with the F&W there should be plenty of conventions happening in the UK shortly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2008 17:38:49 GMT -5
You are right ! How careless of me to slide into "inclusivity !" We exes must not lose that "exclusivity" we gained inside the faith. It's "them and us !" whatever the side of the fence.
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