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Post by Irish Ex Con on Apr 4, 2008 19:06:32 GMT -5
Does anyone think there'd be much interest in an ex-convention in Ireland? I can recall a multitude of guys from my youth who used to attend meetings (probably under duress!) who are a million miles away from it all now. I sure would like to get together with all these guys again once again for a spot of reminiscing about it all over a few beers (not to mention a good old laugh about how we were all taken in by it)!
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Post by laugh cry on Apr 4, 2008 19:56:49 GMT -5
Is it a laughing matter?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 10:09:25 GMT -5
Make the venue Scotland and I will do what I can to be there. Forsake the beer though. I can enjoy good company without that. Not being a hypocrite on this point, I am not against an occasional beer, but not for enhancing social occasions.
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Post by Irish Excon on Apr 6, 2008 13:19:29 GMT -5
Is it a laughing matter? Well it depends on how you view it from your perspective. You could of course sit around with a glum look on your face for the rest of your life and spend your days sitting on a hard board in the attic with the light out. Or you can take a more philiosophical outlook, rejoice that it's all now in the dim and distant past and focus rather on the lighter moments and the camarade one now enjoys with one's fellow exes because of it. Which one are you then?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2008 16:58:47 GMT -5
Are you a fellowess Scot Mhairi and if so do your soles still stand on the sacred ground north of the border ?
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Post by Mocking multitude on Apr 7, 2008 18:24:11 GMT -5
Does anyone think there'd be much interest in an ex-convention in Ireland? I can recall a multitude of guys from my youth who used to attend meetings (probably under duress!) who are a million miles away from it all now. I sure would like to get together with all these guys again once again for a spot of reminiscing about it all over a few beers (not to mention a good old laugh about how we were all taken in by it)! The multitude mocked Jesus, remember?
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Post by Multitude on Apr 8, 2008 2:14:07 GMT -5
And your point is exactly what?
What has Jesus got to do with it?
Perhaps you are interpreting the 2x2 system to be the man Jesus which appears to me to be as ridiculous as interpreting the Queen of England to be the Orange Order. Jesus was a first century anti-Roman Revolutionary philosopher and teacher. The 2x2 system was a nineteenth century religious sect estabished by a somewhat deluded coal miner who believed himself to be one of the two witnesses referred to in the Book of Revelations. How on earth does one's attitude to the latter have any relevance whatsoever to the former?
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Post by Jesus is relevant on Apr 11, 2008 0:00:58 GMT -5
And your point is exactly what? What has Jesus got to do with it? Perhaps you are interpreting the 2x2 system to be the man Jesus which appears to me to be as ridiculous as interpreting the Queen of England to be the Orange Order. Jesus was a first century anti-Roman Revolutionary philosopher and teacher. The 2x2 system was a nineteenth century religious sect estabished by a somewhat deluded coal miner who believed himself to be one of the two witnesses referred to in the Book of Revelations. How on earth does one's attitude to the latter have any relevance whatsoever to the former? Sad question. What have you missed? Jesus has everything to do with it. and what have you against coal miners? or other lowly workers? For better or worse there is no other way on earth except the way of Jesus as followed closely by those who do so. Relevant dor all time and in every situation. Mock on now whoever will, but the day of reckoning is getting nearer, ever nearer.
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Post by Multitude on Apr 12, 2008 1:55:20 GMT -5
I couldn't help but notice that you couldn't in fact answer the question - maybe you don't quite know the answer - or maybe you don't quite understand the question?
You strike me as one who is deeply engrained in the 2x2 mindset and therefore unable to debate rationally such issues with the rest of us. But I fully understand - it's not your fault. I used to suffer from that mindset too. Which isn't at all surprising given that I started early having been exposed to the 2x2 doctrine when I was eleven days old! It sure ain't easy when one ventures out from behind the wailing wall that is the safety and security of the 2x2 fellowship and into the real world.
It's not that I have anything against lowly workers (although the last worker to visit me arrived in a mercedes with a personalised number plate, a state of the art lap top and a mobile phone - not exactly my interpretation of lowly) or indeed coalminers (although I do have an issue with coalminers who claim they are one of the two witnesses from the book of Revelations and claim that anyone who doesn't join their man made peculiar little new found religious sect is destined for hell!).
No, I have an issue with those in petty little religious sects who claim that their man made way is the only right way on the completely dishonest basis that it is somehow from the beginning and wasn't started by a man at all. I have an issue with those religious preachers who indoctrinate the minds of children from the age of four with their misformed view of the world and threaten them with everlasting punishment in hell should they dare to choose a life of normality and forsake their own peculiar little way. I have an issue with those who preach from the platform condemnation of others but appear to believe that they should be above any critisism themselves and in a demonstration of remarkable self righteuosness that would do even a Pharasee proud, to interpret critisism of them as critisism of the Lord in the hope (or expectation) that such claims will be taken seriously. I have an issue with those who claim to preach in the Jesus way but can muster only sufficient moral courage to preach their strange nineteenth century message from the security of a hired hall behind a high hedge and refuse to enage in public debate whatsoever. I have an issue with those who claim to be specially chosen of God and believe that this entitles them to ignore everything in their midst that would expose them as mere mortals whether it be hypocrisy, child abuse or false teaching.
What constitutes the Jesus way anyway? I guess it's whatever you want it to be. And what makes your way any more special than say the plymouth bretheren or the jehovahs witnesses that were also started by men? The fact that they have a name? Everyone thinks their way is the right way in the same way that everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home. Many men of many minds have many ways of many kinds and yours my friend is just one more way bourne out of one more dangerous mind.
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Post by and yours on Apr 12, 2008 6:02:15 GMT -5
and your ideas and beliefs are yours. What makes you thin they are any better?
and what if they end up exposed as a little mistaken?
This might just be the case!
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Post by and yours on Apr 12, 2008 6:04:09 GMT -5
and your ideas and beliefs are yours. What makes you thin they are any better?
and what if they end up exposed as a little mistaken?
This might just be the case!
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Post by Multitude on Apr 12, 2008 10:21:43 GMT -5
Who said my beliefs were better? Indeed whoever said what my beliefs were? Of course no one can be absolutely sure that what they believe is 100% correct and I don't recall saying so. Particularly when it comes to religion. But the 2x2s do. In fact they preach that they, and they alone, are the only true way without a shred of evidence to back it up other than the rather deceptive false claim that they are from the beginning.
Whatever my beliefs happen to be I don't devote my entire life to travelling around the country telling people that if they aren't willing to believe what I believe they will go to hell. And they don't include indoctrinating children from the age of thee or four upwards into believing that if they don't submit themselves to my beliefs, and forsake normal everyday activities such as movies, music, television, dancing, sporting occassions, wearing fashionable clothes and mixing socially with non 2x2's, they will spend eternity drinking with the devil in the fires of hell. What way is that to raise your children?
Of course we may all be mistaken in our beliefs which should cause us all to be cautious. Indeed one should always beware of any man who comes preaching that there is only one Truth and that he, and his peculiar group, are the only ones who have knowledge of it. Begin with doubt and you will end with certainty. Begin with certainty and you will end in doubt.
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Post by No doubt on Apr 15, 2008 21:11:52 GMT -5
You miss the point. True 2x2s do not doubt their beliefs. They cannot prove anything to those who doubt. It is all a matter of Faith. The 2x2s do not doubt that the way revealed to them is Jesus. There IS no doubt that that it is the only way to eternal life. They can never doubt their beliefs because God has given them confirmation, a personal, private and deep conviction. No doubt.
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Post by sure Im sure on Apr 16, 2008 19:37:19 GMT -5
Who said my beliefs were better? Indeed whoever said what my beliefs were? Of course no one can be absolutely sure that what they believe is 100% correct and I ..... That is the crux of the matter. When people ARE totally convinced because of "many infallible proofs" given by Jesus and have the reassurance of God's spirit as promised, the life within, they CAN have no doubt. Anyone who believes in Jesus and believes the sripture about Him knows this. Sadly, this inner life can be lost if we are not faithful to God in our inmost soul. Pray we be faithful unto death.
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Post by Truth hurts on Apr 16, 2008 19:59:10 GMT -5
I couldn't help but notice that you couldn't in fact answer the question - maybe you don't quite know the answer - or maybe you don't quite understand the question? ........................................................ What constitutes the Jesus way anyway? I guess it's whatever you want it to be. And what makes your way any more special than say the plymouth bretheren or the jehovahs witnesses that were also started by men? It would be convenient if it could be whatever we want it to be. God used the work of William Irvine, as he has used many souls throughout the ages. He used Mary and Joseph. He uses whom he will. But.... he did not stop with them. His work went on....... He has brought his way into being in our lifetime. We rejoice because of its value we tell others. Take it or leave it. God is the way. He leads. We follow. We follow Him, not a man. Not even the workers. Yes, there have been sin committed by some of our members. We are ashamed, humbled too. We are humbled by our own sinful natures daily. Yes, we are an imperfect people who follow a perfect Saviour who is all in all to us. No, we do not condemn people of other faiths and religions. They know what they know. We tell it as we see it and in the telling there is the truth that hurts. Truth condemns untruth. It will hurt far more one day whoever of us that have believed in vain. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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Post by Multitude on Apr 18, 2008 18:14:52 GMT -5
Truth Hurts –
I can’t believe what I’m reading. I hardly know where to start. Do you think you can once again pull the 2x2 wool over my eyes? I, who spent twenty something years in meetings from the second week I was born, and my mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother AND my great-great -grandmother before me? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I’ve done the 2x2 thing. I’ve believed what you believe. I’ve been where you are. I’ve sold my soul to the 2x2 devil and died a hundred deaths to the world. I’ve done the deep sea diving thing in the duck pond at Fermanagh clad in weary old 2x2 clothes. I’ve stood up in a hired hall on a cold winter’s evening and professed to serve the 2x2 God in the safety of the 2x2 world. I’ve carried 2x2 corpses on my shoulders to their 2x2 graves sincerely believing they were destined for a 2x2 heaven while the rest of the graveyard all died unsaved. I’ve stood in convention meetings, special meetings, union meetings and gospel meetings and gave thanks to God to be there. To be free from the false religion and the false religious world. To be not as other men are. To have had the truth revealed onto me. And what a fool I was.
God did not use the work of William Irvine any more than he used the work of Padre Pio. I spoke to a very senior Irish worker before leaving and he told me that he did not know who William Irvine was! Surely if God used the work of William Irvine then he’d have told me so? What is it that puts you in a position to know better than him? What evidence do you have? First they cast him out from amongst them condemning him to die in a foreign land. Then they denied his part in the beginnings and then tried pretending he never existed at all. They even tried claiming Edward Cooney wasn’t one of them in a vain attempt to cast off the Cooneyite name. What extremes will you guys go to cover up the truth? You tried to cover up the beginnings and to think that if it wasn’t for the internet you might have got away with it. And now you just can’t decide what to do with dear old William at all - do you claim he was a prophet and risk having cast out a prophet or do you claim he was mad and all that that implies? God used the work of William Irvine – what on earth does that mean? Other than a ridiculous attempt to deceive the faithful even further. Of course it’s convenient for you to claim what you claim as without it your religious foundation is as a house built upon the sand. And you come to me talking of truth?
And then go on to claim you do not condemn people of other religions? Well I spent half my life listening to condemnation of the clergy from the workers on the platform of a gospel hall. False religion and false teachers they were called. Leading people to hell. The great unwilling and the great unwashed they cried to us while we sat safe in the security of our 2x2 world. Goodness every one knows that William Irvine called the clergy the servants of the devil and the Pope the devil at heart. If you seriously believe that you do not condemn other faiths you are even more deluded that I gave you credit for.
No, your so called Truth is indeed just one other man made religion among many in the confusion of the man made mad religious world. It may bring peace to some and joy to others but so does the Plymouth Bethren. The truth does indeed hurt. The truth sometimes hurts like hell.
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Post by This is Good on Apr 18, 2008 19:02:24 GMT -5
Truth Hurts – I can’t believe what I’m reading. I hardly know where to start. Do you think you can once again pull the 2x2 wool over my eyes? I, who spent twenty something years in meetings from the second week I was born, and my mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother AND my great-great -grandmother before me? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I’ve done the 2x2 thing. I’ve believed what you believe. I’ve been where you are. I’ve sold my soul to the 2x2 devil and died a hundred deaths to the world. I’ve done the deep sea diving thing in the duck pond at Fermanagh clad in weary old 2x2 clothes. I’ve stood up in a hired hall on a cold winter’s evening and professed to serve the 2x2 God in the safety of the 2x2 world. I’ve carried 2x2 corpses on my shoulders to their 2x2 graves sincerely believing they were destined for a 2x2 heaven while the rest of the graveyard all died unsaved. I’ve stood in convention meetings, special meetings, union meetings and gospel meetings and gave thanks to God to be there. To be free from the false religion and the false religious world. To be not as other men are. To have had the truth revealed onto me. And what a fool I was. God did not use the work of William Irvine any more than he used the work of Padre Pio. I spoke to a very senior Irish worker before leaving and he told me that he did not know who William Irvine was! Surely if God used the work of William Irvine then he’d have told me so? What is it that puts you in a position to know better than him? What evidence do you have? First they cast him out from amongst them condemning him to die in a foreign land. Then they denied his part in the beginnings and then tried pretending he never existed at all. They even tried claiming Edward Cooney wasn’t one of them in a vain attempt to cast off the Cooneyite name. What extremes will you guys go to cover up the truth? You tried to cover up the beginnings and to think that if it wasn’t for the internet you might have got away with it. And now you just can’t decide what to do with dear old William at all - do you claim he was a prophet and risk having cast out a prophet or do you claim he was mad and all that that implies? God used the work of William Irvine – what on earth does that mean? Other than a ridiculous attempt to deceive the faithful even further. Of course it’s convenient for you to claim what you claim as without it your religious foundation is as a house built upon the sand. And you come to me talking of truth? And then go on to claim you do not condemn people of other religions? Well I spent half my life listening to condemnation of the clergy from the workers on the platform of a gospel hall. False religion and false teachers they were called. Leading people to hell. The great unwilling and the great unwashed they cried to us while we sat safe in the security of our 2x2 world. Goodness every one knows that William Irvine called the clergy the servants of the devil and the Pope the devil at heart. If you seriously believe that you do not condemn other faiths you are even more deluded that I gave you credit for. No, your so called Truth is indeed just one other man made religion among many in the confusion of the man made mad religious world. It may bring peace to some and joy to others but so does the Plymouth Bethren. The truth does indeed hurt. The truth sometimes hurts like hell. This is very good. I feel the exact same way, but I am not good at putting my feelings into words. So "DITTO" Give permission to put this on the VOT!!!!!
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Believe what you like
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Post by Believe what you like on Apr 18, 2008 21:50:55 GMT -5
Believe what you find evidence for, believe what is before your eyes.
But donot let your eyes be blinded.
Would you not condemn untruth? You are condeming the 2x2 issues as untrue in your posts.
Faithful 2x2 workers and followers condemn the teaching of some religions as false in the SAME way that you are doing of theirs.
They do not and we do not condemn the person, clergy, pastor or whoever teaches in vain. To be honest, even as you are trying to be honest, you HAVE to say what you believe is false..
On eternity's morning we will all be shouting "Why didn't you tell us, if you knew we were heading for an eternity in the hot place."
You are wrong on yet another score. I am an outcast of 2x2.
But I know what I see before my eyes, just as you know what you see.
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Post by Lance on Apr 18, 2008 21:53:20 GMT -5
The 2x2EXE convention is beginning to warm up!
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Post by Multitude on Apr 19, 2008 2:31:29 GMT -5
Believe what you find evidence for, believe what is before your eyes? But do not let your eyes be blinded? Really? You really believe that they do not and we do not condemn the person, clergy, pastor or whoever teaches in vain? Well read on my friend and then tell me you ain't barking!
July 18, 1907, p. 8. THE IMPARTIAL REPORTER Established 1808. Newspaper for Enniskillen, Northern Ireland _____________ . ‘PILGRIM’ CONVENTION AT CROCKNACRIEVE. 600 IN CONFERENCE
At last Sunday evening’s service there were five men and two women on the platform, and of the former were two of the chief pioneers of the movement—Mr. Wm. Irwin and Mr. Edward Cooney. The meeting opened with the singing of hymns and prayer. The most interesting address was that of Mr. Wm. Irwin, who dealt solely with the clergy and the terrors of hell. The others did not practically touch either of those subjects. Mr. Irwin is a forcible speaker, and has a very convincing manner. He spoke of the clergy of all denominations in scathing terms and stated that in all ages the clergy were the marks of the devil. Jesus, he said, would never have a clergyman, and his own personal belief was that every clergyman would go to hell unless he turned and worked in what he called ‘the Jesus way.’ He also added—‘No one in heaven believes in the clergy, and no one in hell either.’ His idea of hell is rather novel. He described it thus:—‘Hell is a place where every man will be made to serve God in the Jesus way.’ Mr. Cooney gave a short address. In the course of his remarks he made the momentous announcement—‘We believe this is the last message to the people of Fermanagh.’ He also referred to their sect as ‘God’s saints and servants.’ At the close of his remarks he called on those who were saved since the beginning of the convention to stand up and remain standing, the idea being to confess God openly as their Saviour. Seven did so. Mr. Cooney also requested those who had not been publicly baptised, and wished to be, to stand up. Nineteen signified their wish. A baptismal service was then announced for next Sunday.
It has often been said that a Monday evening meeting is tame compared with that of any other evening. At the meeting last Monday evening the addresses were simple homilies which might be heard any time in a Salvation Army Hall. They lacked in vigour the vim and force of ordinary revival addresses. It is pleasing to note that there is practically nothing said that would offend anyone, the services being nicely conducted and remarkable for the freedom from abusive language which used to characterize them. There are occasional outbursts. A Mr. Kelly delivered a lengthy address and spoke earnestly. The only marring feature in it was a personal reference to four persons who attended on Sunday night. When they came in to the meeting, he said they prayed and afterwards giggled and talked. They were devil possessed, added the speaker, and must have been Methodists. The same gentleman made reference to unsaved people praying to God. His theory was that it was far better for them not to pray to God at all, until they live in the ‘Jesus way.’
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Post by The year is 2008 on Apr 19, 2008 7:44:41 GMT -5
Why would I want to read an article written in1907?
William Irvine as we all know was thrown out of the movement he started alongside others. His doctrine, any part that was not biblical went with him. The way evolved becasue the followers followed the teachings of Jesus. Believe it or not. Not in your case. However this is what those people who you call 2x2s beloieve and follow sincerely. Most are extremeley conscientious in doing their bes to follow, however, simply, the words of Jesus as far as understanding permits. I cannot find fault in them. Can you?
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Post by MULTITUDE on Apr 19, 2008 9:06:09 GMT -5
What nonsense.
Exactly which part of Irvines doctrine went with him? Are you suggesting that the doctrine of the original 2x2 church founded by Irvine was not entirely of God? That your 2x2 church was founded upon something of man? Can a bad tree bring forth good fruit?
This is such convenient 20th century thinking. But most of us have moved on. To the 21st. The origins of the church are now public and can't be covered up any more. Why would you wish to read a document from 1907? Why would you want to read the bible from two thousand years before? At least you acknowldge the document's authenticity. 10 years ago the claim of the 2x2s was that such documents did not exist. Now, forced with the unrefutable truth, they seek to distance themselves from them because it doesn't suit them any more. Same old dance with a different tune.
The fact is that these people in 1907 are the founders of 2x2ism. These are the foundation upon which your church is built. You may not like it but it's true. And they preach the very things you claimed to me that 2x2 workers don't ever do. The leopard doesn't change it's spots. Only a snake changes its skin. Truth does't evolve, it just is! If it ain't broke you won't need to fix it.
I find it remarkable that on one hand the 2x2 church claims unchanging unbroken apostolic succession from the beginning, and in the next breath claims that its doctrine is entirely different from that preached merely 100 years ago. So tell me, when did your church become the true church? When did the doctrine cease to be flawed? 1897? 1907? 1937? 1977? 2007? On the departure of William Irvine? Or did Edward Cooney take some false doctrine with him too? The twisting of scripture is one thing, but the twisting of history quite another. It reminds me of Churchill saying - history will be kind to me - because I shall write it!
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 19, 2008 9:39:11 GMT -5
Enjoyed your posts "Multitude."
I'm glad to see that the VOT Admin has requested permission to preserve them on VOT.
Carry on!
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Post by and who else on Apr 19, 2008 11:20:43 GMT -5
July 18, 1907, p. 8. THE IMPARTIAL REPORTER two of the chief pioneers of the movement—Mr. Wm. Irwin and Mr. Edward Cooney. hmm, whatever....
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Post by Plymouth Brethren on Apr 25, 2008 14:46:30 GMT -5
To Multitude guest. Will you be joining the Plymouth Brethern then? By your post I cannot make out why you could spend so long n a way before discovering the devil in it. I would like to know more of your experience.
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Post by hidden on Apr 25, 2008 15:11:45 GMT -5
From some 'tis hid, to babes revealed, a little flock of poor.
You are mistaken Multitude Guest. The ideal 2x2 way ( apart from the human errors, atrocities and unfaithful members) in essence is true.
Who started it or restarted it is immaterial in my opinion. It is the inner life that is salvation and in the Eternal Plan. It is hidden because it is spiritual.
You are also mistaken in thinking that I am a member. I was. I couldn't abide the rules!! I believe that workers took on too much power which was not in the Plan and have deviated from God's purpose.
I am fascinated by the lengths people go to discredit what they conceive to be 2x2 belief.
I am perplexed by the misconceptions ( in my opinion) I come across on this board.
I am angered and concerned about the hurt that has been caused to many. (I had my share.)
But in my study of theology, other religions and Scripture, I see beauty in the spiritual life ( which exists in some of the other faiths to different extents.)
I have had to stand back form my own involvement to arrive at my present conclusions, because anger blurrs our vision and conditions our judgement.
I also inherited 2x2ism in childhood. However, I have aged friends who inherited their religious beliefs, some stricter than this who do not have the emotional turmoil that we witness here on these boards.
I still have issues and anger. At times it is overcome and yet can resurface.
Thanks for your posts.
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Post by Multitude on Apr 26, 2008 8:24:09 GMT -5
Hidden
The 2x2s had their own peculiar language which those on the inside knew perfectly well what it meant but which was conveniently open to ambiguity when used in the presence of outsiders. If one is going to engage in meaningful debate then it would be helpful if the language used is understood by all. You insist on using language which is somewhat ambiguous to the common man – perhaps it is this that confuses me into thinking that you are still part of the 2x2 system. Perhaps some of the chains remain unbroken.
For example you say ‘from some 'tis hid, to babes revealed, a little flock of poor.’ But what does this mean? You talk of the ideal 2x2 way. What on earth is the ideal 2x2 way? And how many 2x2 ways are there? Does the ideal 2x2 way exist or is it something of the imagination. Like a green unicorn. And what do you mean by ‘the ideal way in essence is true’? Does this mean that the other 2x2 way (whatever that is) is false? You also refer to ‘the Eternal Plan’ and ‘God’s purpose’. What is the Eternal Plan and what is God’s purpose - in your opinion anyway?
For clarification it would also be helpful if you could clarify your interpretation of 2x2 beliefs as this may help clear up some of the misconceptions you read on this board. What do the 2x2s believe? In my day the 2x2s believed that;
1. The 2x2 church was the only true way and the only church not started by a man. 2. The 2x2 church doesn’t take a name because Jesus didn’t give his church a name. 3. The meeting in the home is the only true way to worship and God does not dwell in formal churches buildings 4. To be saved one has to profess through a 2x2 worker in a 2x2 meeting. 5. The 2x2 preachers are God’s only true servants and all other clergy are false preachers who will lead people to a lost eternity. 6. Obedience to the workers is a fundamental principle and membership of the chuch (and consequently eternal salvation - in the minds of the members anyway) was entirely at the discretion of the workers.
I’d also be interested in learning what your view is as regards the 'spiritual life' you refer to - what is it and what has it got to do with the 2x2s? Can one have spiritual life outside the 2x2s, in which case what is the point of the 2x2 church at all?
You may think that the foundation of the 2x2 church is immaterial in your opinion but I’m afraid it isn’t in mine. Honesty and truth are important - not only in things of the church but in life generally. If a man comes preaching that his church is the only way to heaven and that it is the only church that wasn’t started by a man, surely this is something worth exploring. If you then explore a little and find that it was indeed started by a man and only 100 years ago would this not perturb you? What is the preacher denies any knowledge of the founder but yet insistes on referring to his church as ‘The Truth’ and ‘The Only True Way’? If this does not perturb you then may I suggest that your grasp of ‘true’ and ‘truth’ is somewhat wanting.
Anyway I apologise for numbering you among the 2x2 chosen. Personally I’ve got over the anger and the embarrassment of ever having been involved, and, while I have to take some responsibility for signing up to believe in such nonsense, I basically put it down to religious indoctrination something over which I’d absolutely no control. I merely look upon the entire system now as just another church, no different to any other, except for the fact that the silly little men at the top of the organisation (they even used to deny that is was an organisation) thought they could deceive people about its origins and think they could get away with it. Actually it still makes me sick when I think of it!
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Post by Multitude on Apr 26, 2008 9:02:10 GMT -5
Plymouth Bretheren
I assume your comments relate to reply #17. In which case your logic intrigues me. Whay on earth would I wish to join the Plymouth Brethren? I'm sorry but that one is well beyond me. Why having escaped the bizarre world of one form of christian exclusivity would one wish to become embroiled in another?
As for your rather more sensible question as to why I spent so long in the 2x2 way - well the best part of the first 20 years of attending were as a result of being dragged there by the ear by my mother. The next ten were then spent there solely on the basis of having believed what I was taught - I guess as a combination of having suffered a severe bout of religious delusion and fearing that to do so would be a first class one way ticket all the way down to hell in the company of the methodists and the presbyterians.
I'll readily admit to be being a tad slow on the pick up but in my defence I had no reason not to believe that what these 'Godly' men told me anymore than a Catholic has anymore reason not to believe what the Pope tells him. Religious delusion is a powerful tool and hell ain't exactly a holiday. And remember the workers were held in much higher esteem than the Pope. Afterall these people stayed in our homes, established the rules under which we lived and were pretty much worshiped by our mothers.
I'm not sure that I ever claimed that I discovered the devil in it. In fact I'm not quite sure what you mean by the devil at all. I merely discovered that much of what I'd been told was untrue and the so-called 'Truth' was in fact a great big lie. And not only a lie, but when I confronted the hierarchy with the facts they denied them, like a child caught in the act denying having been in the sweet shop, while chocolate ice cream drips all the way down its chin.
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