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Post by Information Needed on Mar 29, 2008 10:15:48 GMT -5
Is it possibly true that the workers are haveing a re-think regarding the rules for possession or viewing of TV programmes?
Is it now Ok to view via other technology but not via a television?
Please can these rules be made clear for all, including for past members who are not currently in fellowship.
With thanks in anticipation.
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Post by aileen on Mar 29, 2008 13:26:01 GMT -5
I think that the rethink has been had already.
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Post by Invite back on Mar 30, 2008 7:53:53 GMT -5
Good. Thanls Aileen. So can we have confirmation so that we don't get on the wrong side of any workers?
Also can apologies and invitations be issued to all those exe friends who were insulted and offended by those who believed that TVs were not acceptable a few years ago?
There were many who lost the battle with TV and if they are all right now, what was wrong with them then??
Want to Know.
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Post by Caution on Mar 30, 2008 17:02:29 GMT -5
Good. Thanls Aileen. So can we have confirmation so that we don't get on the wrong side of any workers? Also can apologies and invitations be issued to all those exe friends who were insulted and offended by those who believed that TVs were not acceptable a few years ago? There were many who lost the battle with TV and if they are all right now, what was wrong with them then?? Want to Know. I think I would take Aileen's confirmation that televisons etc. are acceptable with a huge degree of caution. I have not heard from anyone in the British Isles that television in it's many forms is acceptable. I do know there is a growing concern about what is available on the internet (not just these boards) and one Irish worker told a friend of mine recently that if they'd known how the internet would develop, they'd have cracked down on it years ago. This was following a discussion I had with the friend who'd been amused (he's not internet or computer savvy) at some other friends telling him that they regularly watch soccer games on-line and when they've got a large computer screen, they don't need or want a television.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 7:30:10 GMT -5
There is evidently no policy against hypocrisy in the 2x2 fellowship at least -- even if it seems a little unclear as to the policy on TVs.
In fact hypocrisy has become a virtue in the group taught to be implimented by the true and faithful. I have heard that girls quickly changing 'non-approved dress' for more 'worker-approved dress' when workers show up unannounced is just because of 'respect for the workers'!!!!
Same explanation is given to why a TV in a closet is OK as long as you shut the closet door when the workers come!!!
Isn't this about the ultimate in anti-christian teaching?
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Post by aileen on Apr 1, 2008 6:51:25 GMT -5
Good. Thanls Aileen. So can we have confirmation so that we don't get on the wrong side of any workers? Also can apologies and invitations be issued to all those exe friends who were insulted and offended by those who believed that TVs were not acceptable a few years ago? There were many who lost the battle with TV and if they are all right now, what was wrong with them then?? Want to Know. Confirmation of what? I said that I "think" that the rethink has been had already. I didn't say what the outcome of that was. You assumed. If it was wrong years ago and not now, so what? Apology? why? Then "caution" wrote... "I think I would take Aileen's confirmation that televisons etc. are acceptable with a huge degree of caution..." Where did I say that? I've said that I have a TV and that I watch it, and that some workers have watched sport with us, but I didn't say anything about acceptability. Edgar spoke of the absence of a hypocracy policy. (actually I've never heard of ANY curch having such a policy, but...), well as he's the expert, listen to him We're hypocrictical. So we say one thing and do another. So what? Who cares? What is it to you?
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Post by Youre saying on Apr 1, 2008 10:24:14 GMT -5
So you are saying that the workers sho watch TV with you do so in defiance of the 2x2 rules.
Do they openly say that they do not agree with the rules, while they are viewing,Aileen?
You say that you don't know if it is acceptable so obviously those workers who watch with you haven't told you that it is acceptable with the older workers to watch TV because they know full well that it is still an unwritten 2x2 rule and yet they are happy to break the rules and encourage you to do so in defiance of the established workers.
Amazing this!!!!
What else have these workers changed without telling their leaders??
Is it really true that they watch TV with you. I know today is April the First!
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Post by Gobsmacked on Apr 1, 2008 10:29:48 GMT -5
Isn't this a lovely "love your neighbour"and "give your life for the lost souls"advertisement.
Well, at least now we know.
Gobsmacked!
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Post by wondering on Apr 1, 2008 16:11:59 GMT -5
So you are saying that the workers sho watch TV with you do so in defiance of the 2x2 rules. Do they openly say that they do not agree with the rules, while they are viewing,Aileen? You say that you don't know if it is acceptable so obviously those workers who watch with you haven't told you that it is acceptable with the older workers to watch TV because they know full well that it is still an unwritten 2x2 rule and yet they are happy to break the rules and encourage you to do so in defiance of the established workers. Amazing this!!!! What else have these workers changed without telling their leaders?? Is it really true that they watch TV with you. I know today is April the First! I'm now wondering if dear old (turn of phrase Aileen, not a statement of fact, nor indeed a suggestion) Aileen has wandered on to the wrong boards? Her insistence that her television is accepted (repeated claims that they watched and engaged with what they were viewing is to condone the television in my book) by workers and used to entertain them rather than "think the thoughts that keep our hearts aflame" with them does not ring true of any worker I know. I find it difficult to believe this outrageous boast.
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Post by Pamela on Apr 1, 2008 19:39:06 GMT -5
No one believes it! Only Aileen in her fantasies.
Aileen is a 2X2, appears to tell whoppers.
The exe 2X2s tend to verify facts.
What does that illustrate?
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Post by Alana on Apr 3, 2008 9:36:44 GMT -5
AILEEN IS AN EXE WHO FANTASISES ABOUT BEING A PART TIME 2X2.
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Post by aileen on Apr 3, 2008 14:22:43 GMT -5
You accuse me of being an "exe". Ex what?
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Post by Ex Believer on Apr 4, 2008 20:30:50 GMT -5
Ex Believer in 2x2 rules. ie. No TV viewing.
In 2x2 christianity commitment to rules is the passport to heaven.
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Post by Accurate Info on Apr 5, 2008 0:45:07 GMT -5
Aileen is right. There has never been a rule about TV. WHEN THE WAY WAS STARTED THERE WERE NO SUCH THINGS AS TVs. Therefore No Rules existed to ban them.
People were on the whole not well off and didn't have anything that could be banned in the early days. It was hard to scrape a living for most.
Banning of life's pleasures and little perceived luxuries came later with the kill joys.
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Post by aileen on Apr 5, 2008 13:53:19 GMT -5
I'm certainly not an "ex believer in 2x2 rules".
To be such I'd have to have once been a believer in them, and I didn't. So I can't be an ex. (not in this way at least)
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Post by Rule Obey on Apr 7, 2008 21:01:06 GMT -5
Aileen, are you a believer in the workers?
To be a believer in the F&W, 2X2 way you cannot join without obeying the workers. To believe that the workers bring the gospel it follows that you must obey their rules?
Do you believe in workers' rules, Aileen?
Now, if you do, it is time to get rid of the old telly, Aileen.
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Post by Radio preceded on Apr 7, 2008 21:07:29 GMT -5
Its a long time now, but I don't remember any rules about TV when that was a new medium. TV came after radio. Radios were already banned when the TVs started appearing. The same banning rule applied to both. Later cassette players fell into the same banned category, until workers started using them to learn languages. Then not so many workers enforced the ban. It seems that radios are permitted now, though proof is hard to find. This is the way with unwritten rules, they are unaccountable.
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Post by aileen on Apr 10, 2008 1:38:27 GMT -5
Aileen, are you a believer in the workers? To be a believer in the F&W, 2X2 way you cannot join without obeying the workers. To believe that the workers bring the gospel it follows that you must obey their rules? Do you believe in workers' rules, Aileen? Now, if you do, it is time to get rid of the old telly, Aileen. Have to define "believe in" first. Do I believe they exist - of course. Do I beleive everything they say? Of course not. You can join without obeying the workers, thats absolute nonesense to say you have to. Do I believe in workers rules? Of course they exist, I believe that, but do I obey them all? Of course not, and I'm not sure that I know anyone that does. Our study last night was about traditions and man made rules, and it was agreed that none of them have eternal impact, that no man made rules affect salvation, and some specific rules were mentioned, such as black stockings, hair, dress, etc.
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Apr 10, 2008 5:16:14 GMT -5
>>man made rules, and it was agreed that none of them have eternal impact,
a pleasant but imo naive statement ...
i have a little picture in my mind of the 2x2 God doing some programming ... bits of his code look like this ...
while (person_alive) do { if (TRUE == 2x2) result = complex_calculation_involving_this_and_that (soul_id); else result = LostEternity (soul_id); }
regardless of the presence or absence of man-made rules, there's a bigger party to crash first...
caff who will remain cranky until she gets MOB working
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Post by aileen on Apr 11, 2008 3:12:57 GMT -5
I disagree that its naive.
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Post by excommunication on Apr 11, 2008 14:01:57 GMT -5
Aileen, are you a believer in the workers? To be a believer in the F&W, 2X2 way you cannot join without obeying the workers. To believe that the workers bring the gospel it follows that you must obey their rules? Do you believe in workers' rules, Aileen? Now, if you do, it is time to get rid of the old telly, Aileen. Have to define "believe in" first. Do I believe they exist - of course. Do I beleive everything they say? Of course not. You can join without obeying the workers, thats absolute nonesense to say you have to. Do I believe in workers rules? Of course they exist, I believe that, but do I obey them all? Of course not, and I'm not sure that I know anyone that does. Our study last night was about traditions and man made rules, and it was agreed that none of them have eternal impact, that no man made rules affect salvation, and some specific rules were mentioned, such as black stockings, hair, dress, etc. Do you know that if you talk about these things in your testimony you are elegible to be ased to not take part in meetings, Aileen. If the worers find out.
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Post by aileen on Apr 11, 2008 15:04:42 GMT -5
"Do you know that if you talk about these things in your testimony you are elegible to be ased to not take part in meetings, Aileen.
If the worers find out."
Not in my experience. Probably the case in some places tho'
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Post by new rules on Apr 11, 2008 22:53:46 GMT -5
The new rules, for those who ever bother about rules, areto do as your conscience allows you to do.
This has really been the way all the time. Just some people got confused between workers'advice and rules.
The well intended advice became the rule.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2008 5:55:38 GMT -5
I agree that it has long been the case to do as your conscience guides you. However, in spiritual matters your conscience must guide you in a way that is in agreement with, or meets the approval of, the Workers. The beauty of this is that it proves the Workers are the true messengers of God and that we are all being guided by the spirit and are truly "one" in our thinking and actions.
Of course the short cut is to simply just do that which the Workers say or approve of. That way we don't have any conflict of conscience or dilemma over being open minded and we attain spiritual "oneness" much more rapidly.
Even today, letting your conscience guide you can make a big difference over whether you are allowed to profess or not.
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Post by ooT on Apr 12, 2008 11:12:34 GMT -5
RAM, I would agree that there is some of what you write happening in the fellowship. But there is more that goes this way: << However, in spiritual matters your conscience must guide you in a way that is in agreement with, or meets the approval of, the Holy Spirit. >> (and also is not in conflict with the Bible.)
In doing it this way, there is unity in the fellowship - the unity that matters - the unity that is observed and talked about by people who travel extensively. This isn't a matter of uniform outward appearance, but a oneness of inward spirit. It sometimes may produce some degree of outward uniformity in cultures with similar roots, however, because instruction by the Holy Spirit will have an effect on how we live and choose to look.
Matt. 23:25-26 What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.
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Post by Consistent on Apr 13, 2008 16:34:28 GMT -5
RAM, I would agree that there is some of what you write happening in the fellowship. But there is more that goes this way: << However, in spiritual matters your conscience must guide you in a way that is in agreement with, or meets the approval of, the Holy Spirit. >> [ font=Verdana]Workers overule and dictate. When this happens they have robbed you of using your conscience. This often happens with young people who are bullied into doing certain things, bullied by parents/ workers and often with emotional blackmail.(and also is not in conflict with the Bible.) This is a dangerous statement in 2x2 because in different areas asn with different workers the interpretation changes. Also from country to country. ie. divorce, personal appearance for womenIn doing it this way, there is unity in the fellowship - the unity that matters - the unity that is observed and talked about by people who travel extensively. This isn't a matter of uniform outward appearance, but a oneness of inward spirit. It sometimes may produce some degree of outward uniformity in cultures with similar roots, however, because instruction by the Holy Spirit will have an effect on how we live and choose to look. Are you blaming the Holy Spirit for man's imposition of dress code? especially for women? This varies SO much from country to country as to be farcical!!! Matt. 23:25-26 What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too. This is exactly what workers have achieved in enforcing outward appearance and causing bitterness of spirit to many. In refusing to allow divorce and remarriage for some, but not all, and the list is endless with the favouritism that is practised by workers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 17:50:54 GMT -5
Dearest Oot, I'm sorry but I would strongly disagree that within the fellowship your conscience must guide you in a way that meets the approval of the Holy Spirit (i.e. moreso than the approval of the workers) and that it is this which produces the unity.
I can only speak from my own experiences, observations and discussions with other people. In my opinion much of the perceived unity is brought about by members conforming to the expected standards within the group. This even goes for friends and workers who habitually tend to speak or pray about professing friendly/acceptable topics. There is much about Jesus and his teachings which are avoided because it does not sit with the professing mindset. There is very much a tendency to converse socially and worship in a way which meets with the approval of the workers and friends rather than the leadings of the spirit.
In saying this I am not denying the spirit intervenes and controls whenever it can, but the unwritten controls within the fellowship do regularly hinder the spirit and produce many of the side effects we read about on this board.
It is the acceptance of Christ in our lives which cleanses us inside. In doing so we produce the outward cleanness of Jesus by showing our love towards others, both inside and outside our fellowship group. It is NOT outward appearances that Jesus is talking about, but rather the manifestation of his spirit through us towards others.
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alana
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Post by alana on Apr 15, 2008 20:51:35 GMT -5
I agree Ram.
So much gets in the way in our relationship with Jesus. It is sad when fellowship actually hinders growth because of all the reasons you mention. Fellowship CAN be great, bit only when there is freedom. Freedom from STUPID imposed restrictions in all areas.
Forced or maniplated obedience is of no value to God nor to us, so conforming to workers wishes is counter productive.
Workers are often the CAUSE of some of the friends discouragement and "bondage".
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