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Post by ex-teenager on Feb 28, 2008 12:21:46 GMT -5
from what i've learned from friends from Ireland, at each convention in Ireland one meeting is held (usually an afternoon meeting) in which the "key speaker" has been asked by "those in authority" to address the "standards of the kingdom" - for example, the dress code, TV, internet use, dating, marriage issues, etc. consequently such a meeting is referred to as a "standards meeting" (that is the term these folks used). apparently the speaker in such a meeting is not given the freedom to speak whatever God lays on his heart, but is expected to "lay down the law" (so to speak) on such matters. the folks i know who have attended such meetings said that one younger brother who had been given this task had a difficult time carrying it out... i wonder if anyone on TMB has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has? I have attended conventions were these type of thing is spoken. Some people critise our overseer for mentioning things such as the modesty of womens apparel. He is mocked for it, yet Paul did the exact same thing. Some speak about the dangers of things such as fornication (biblical), modesty (biblical), lust/desires of the flesh (wealth, fornication) and warned about things taking over our lives (TV, Internet, Jobs etc)... People are often critised for giving advise, but GOD has spoken to me in such meetings. OK sometimes you do hear someone speak about hear in a bun.. and you go... groan... but not all advise is bad!
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Post by fornication on Feb 28, 2008 12:29:12 GMT -5
[quote has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has?[/quote]
. Some speak about the dangers of things such as fornication (biblical), modesty (biblical), lust/desires of the flesh (wealth, fornication) and warned about things taking over ![/quote][/b]
is molesting covered under lust or fornication? does the bible use the word molestation, or wasnt it invented then?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 12:42:36 GMT -5
Wanderer, this happens regularly in the Western Alliance region, ie Western US and Western Canada. It is not unusual for featured visitors to be asked to address a certain issue(s), and preach the current party line on the issue. Agendas are advanced and I can confirm that this happens based on a trusted source.
Sometimes a senior worker or overseer will address such controversial issues themselves, but this practice has waned tremendously in the last decade or so in favour of requiring the visiting workers to do this job. The reason appears that the visitor does not have to answer for his words later and the locals can shrug it off.
We had a senior overseas worker address D&R at convention in 2007. It seemed obvious that he was required to do so as this issue did not fit at all with the subject of his preaching. Out of the blue, he brought it up at the last of his time and was quite halting, it seemed very disjointed, uncomfortable. This was a case that seemed to me to be contrived by the local church authorities.
My understanding is that this occurs much less frequently in the "East''.
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Post by ex-teenager on Feb 28, 2008 13:37:29 GMT -5
Wanderer, this happens regularly in the Western Alliance region, ie Western US and Western Canada. It is not unusual for featured visitors to be asked to address a certain issue(s), and preach the current party line on the issue. Agendas are advanced and I can confirm that this happens based on a trusted source. Sometimes a senior worker or overseer will address such controversial issues themselves, but this practice has waned tremendously in the last decade or so in favour of requiring the visiting workers to do this job. The reason appears that the visitor does not have to answer for his words later and the locals can shrug it off. We had a senior overseas worker address D&R at convention in 2007. It seemed obvious that he was required to do so as this issue did not fit at all with the subject of his preaching. Out of the blue, he brought it up at the last of his time and was quite halting, it seemed very disjointed, uncomfortable. This was a case that seemed to me to be contrived by the local church authorities. My understanding is that this occurs much less frequently in the "East''. The overseer in Ireland addressed the issue of fornication, (told the convention that a bride and groom should remain virgins until they were married) and the issue of divorce and remarriage this past year. I don't think I have experienced it being done by overseas workers as much as our home workers. Maybe thats an American thing.
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Post by ex-teenager on Feb 28, 2008 13:38:13 GMT -5
[ quote has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has?[/quote] . Some speak about the dangers of things such as fornication (biblical), modesty (biblical), lust/desires of the flesh (wealth, fornication) and warned about things taking over ![/b] is molesting covered under lust or fornication? does the bible use the word molestation, or wasnt it invented then?[/quote] Its evil, which is always spoken about. Good and evil.
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Post by o on Feb 28, 2008 15:40:30 GMT -5
from what i've learned from friends from Ireland, at each convention in Ireland one meeting is held (usually an afternoon meeting) in which the "key speaker" has been asked by "those in authority" to address the "standards of the kingdom" - for example, the dress code, TV, internet use, dating, marriage issues, etc. consequently such a meeting is referred to as a "standards meeting" (that is the term these folks used). apparently the speaker in such a meeting is not given the freedom to speak whatever God lays on his heart, but is expected to "lay down the law" (so to speak) on such matters. the folks i know who have attended such meetings said that one younger brother who had been given this task had a difficult time carrying it out... i wonder if anyone on TMB has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has? That's largely true except the "Rules and Regulations Refresher" was moved to a Monday evening so as not to frighten the day-trippers who tend to be exes. I'm not convinced that a younger worker (male, naturally) would be expected to give the lecture (as the discourses are usually referred to by the audience for whom they are intended) as they lack experience although it is possible that it is thought they may have the advantage in being able to better communicate to the troublesome and wayward younger women for it is to those the lectures are directed. As for asking a visiting worker to address issues that are pertinent to the region to which they are visiting, it seems unlikely and I'd guess umbrage may be taken if critical comment was passed at anything more than an informal level. I've heard the lecture delivered almost verbatim at two consecutive conventions by the same worker so it seems unlikely that it was laid on his heart by God at that particular moment. I don't believe a convention is the appropriate place for whipping the faithful into line on man-made rules. Union meeting or if an offender is particularly wilfull, then face to face is more appropriate in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 15:46:27 GMT -5
Wanderer, this happens regularly in the Western Alliance region, ie Western US and Western Canada. It is not unusual for featured visitors to be asked to address a certain issue(s), and preach the current party line on the issue. Agendas are advanced and I can confirm that this happens based on a trusted source. Sometimes a senior worker or overseer will address such controversial issues themselves, but this practice has waned tremendously in the last decade or so in favour of requiring the visiting workers to do this job. The reason appears that the visitor does not have to answer for his words later and the locals can shrug it off. We had a senior overseas worker address D&R at convention in 2007. It seemed obvious that he was required to do so as this issue did not fit at all with the subject of his preaching. Out of the blue, he brought it up at the last of his time and was quite halting, it seemed very disjointed, uncomfortable. This was a case that seemed to me to be contrived by the local church authorities. My understanding is that this occurs much less frequently in the "East''. The overseer in Ireland addressed the issue of fornication, (told the convention that a bride and groom should remain virgins until they were married) and the issue of divorce and remarriage this past year. I don't think I have experienced it being done by overseas workers as much as our home workers. Maybe thats an American thing. It's a relative new practice teenager, you Irish are just behind the times! It's not necessarily an overseas worker who is put up to this, just one who is outside of the local overseer's jurisdiction.
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Post by ex-teenager on Feb 28, 2008 15:49:58 GMT -5
The overseer in Ireland addressed the issue of fornication, (told the convention that a bride and groom should remain virgins until they were married) and the issue of divorce and remarriage this past year. I don't think I have experienced it being done by overseas workers as much as our home workers. Maybe thats an American thing. It's a relative new practice teenager, you Irish are just behind the times! It's not necessarily an overseas worker who is put up to this, just one who is outside of the local overseer's jurisdiction. We Irish generally don't go with the flow...
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Post by ScholarGal on Feb 28, 2008 16:03:59 GMT -5
Less than 10 years ago I was at the last meeting of a German convention. An old brother worker (overseer?) spoke last. At the very end of his message after thanking everyone for their help at the convention, he launched into a diatribe about the horrible fashion trends for women that professing foreigners wore in Germany. His specific target was skirt lengths and skirts with back slits. He came down hard against women's fashions in tone and word. (The poor lady translating sounded so uncomfortable!) If women couldn't find appropriate-length skirts with no slits, then they ought to learn how to sew.
After hearing his message, I understood why the professing German women looked like American Mennonites without bonnets.
For the record, the old worker's diatribe against skirts with slits had no effect on my future fashion choices. I dismissed his opinion as ridiculous and felt sorry for anyone who might feel they must follow his fashion advice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 16:07:18 GMT -5
Less than 10 years ago I was at the last meeting of a German convention. An old brother worker (overseer?) spoke last. At the very end of his message after thanking everyone for their help at the convention, he launched into a diatribe about the horrible fashion trends for women that professing foreigners wore in Germany. His specific target was skirt lengths and skirts with back slits. He came down hard against women's fashions in tone and word. (The poor lady translating sounded so uncomfortable!) After hearing his message, I understood why the professing German women looked like American Mennonites without bonnets. For the record, the old worker's diatribe against skirts with slits had no effect on my future fashion choices. I dismissed his opinion as ridiculous and felt sorry for anyone who might feel they must follow his fashion advice. With diatribes like that, workers and overseers are rushing themselves headlong into irrelevancy. Only the gullible swallow it.
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Post by uncle Joe on Feb 28, 2008 16:11:54 GMT -5
His specific target was skirt If women couldn't find appropriate-length skirts with no slits, then they ought to learn how to sew. the old worker's diatribe against skirts with slits had no effect on my future fashion choices. I dismissefelt sorry for anyone who might feel they must follow his fashion advice. So you seduced some poor men, by dressing provokatively! Good for you! Your ma and pa, should be right proud of ya!
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Post by kencoolidge on Feb 28, 2008 18:26:19 GMT -5
People are seduced when they pay attention to their own thoughts and carry them out. I do believe in modesty but not to a 1890-1900 fashion standard
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Post by OK then on Feb 28, 2008 18:32:47 GMT -5
People are seduced when they pay attention to their own thoughts and carry them out. I do believe in modestard so in other words, men seduce themselfs? There is no innuendos involved, no body language between 2 human beings, no verbalizing of making love between 2 people? Is this normal behaviour for some?
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Post by in the mind on Feb 28, 2008 20:56:11 GMT -5
You are right,I think. It is all in the mind of the observer.
If you see evil in a fashionable skirt, is it not the evil within you that causes you to be disturbed by what you see.
People who are upset by women wearing various fashions, trousers etc. need to examine themselves and consider if the real sin is not within their own hearts and minds. Shame in them for projecting their own wickedness onto others.
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Post by OK then on Feb 28, 2008 21:02:18 GMT -5
I think ''lust'' is the word you are looking for!
Seduction has to do with one person trying to create a lustful environment!
Both parties are held accountable before God!
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Post by rjkee on Feb 29, 2008 3:40:27 GMT -5
Teenager,
Are you referring to Tommie Gamble's famous 'slits in skirts talks'? It always struck me as odd that an elderly single man would appear to have such an obsession about womens' clothes.
Regards
Robert
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Post by ex-teenager on Feb 29, 2008 4:14:09 GMT -5
Teenager, Are you referring to Tommie Gamble's famous 'slits in skirts talks'? It always struck me as odd that an elderly single man would appear to have such an obsession about womens' clothes. Regards Robert Yes I am. I think most men would get a little distracted by revealing clothes? He indicated a few times that it was a distraction, which I admire his honesty in doing.
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Post by distraction on Feb 29, 2008 13:43:42 GMT -5
Distraction indeed! The conventionis it not supposed to be a place where you concentrate on the meetings and their content, They must hold little appeal for people who are so wilfully distracted! There are no revealing outfits visible at convention. The slits in skirts are mostly lower than hemlines used to be. A man is a poor specimen if he cannot be in the vecinity of a woman and not be disturbed. A truly holy man would be unaffected were he to walk thro a red light district.
What is the obsession with women's garments. It is distasteful.
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Post by no such on Feb 29, 2008 13:47:11 GMT -5
There is no such distraction. Can't you see, this is a tradition of 2X2 to attempt control , after all they clearly have nothing on their mind when they resort to this rubbish. Poor power starved people and this is the only control they can attempt.
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Post by friend1 on Feb 29, 2008 18:29:12 GMT -5
[/quote]
Yes I am. I think most men would get a little distracted by revealing clothes? He indicated a few times that it was a distraction, which I admire his honesty in doing.[/quote]
When he got off his track, did you see which direction he was headed?
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Post by gb4fe4e on Mar 1, 2008 3:49:38 GMT -5
Yes I am. I think most men would get a little distracted by revealing clothes? He indicated a few times that it was a distraction, which I admire his honesty in doing.[/quote] When he got off his track, did you see which direction he was headed?[/quote] Where is the victory in rising above the lusts of the flesh and the things that tempt, if you are relying on others to do most of the work for you? And isn't it the truth, that in the repressed Victorian ages, when all a chap could see was face and hands, that even the merest glimpse of a delicately turned ankle was enough to have him sprinting for a cold shower? So no matter how the women are ordered to cover (burkhas? Not called Taliban Tommy for nothing, y'know) titillation is a matter of perspective.
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Post by ex-teenager on Mar 1, 2008 8:08:21 GMT -5
I would question what is wrong with a senior worker promoting modesty. He seems to receive great critism for it, and yet Paul also promoted it. OK you mighten agree with his approach, but his logic is right.
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Post by in mind on Mar 1, 2008 11:22:37 GMT -5
from what i've learned from friends from Ireland, at each convention in Ireland one meeting is held (usually an afternoon meeting) in which the "key speaker" has been asked by "those in authority" to address the "standards of the kingdom" - for example, the dress code, TV, internet use, dating, marriage issues, etc. consequently such a meeting is referred to as a "standards meeting" (that is the term these folks used). apparently the speaker in such a meeting is not given the freedom to speak whatever God lays on his heart, but is expected to "lay down the law" (so to speak) on such matters. the folks i know who have attended such meetings said that one younger brother who had been given this task had a difficult time carrying it out... i wonder if anyone on TMB has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has? I have attended conventions were these type of thing is spoken. Some people critise our overseer for mentioning things such as the modesty of womens apparel. He is mocked for it, yet Paul did the exact same thing. Some speak about the dangers of things such as fornication (biblical), modesty (biblical), lust/desires of the flesh (wealth, fornication) and warned about things taking over our lives (TV, Internet, Jobs etc)... People are often critised for giving advise, but GOD has spoken to me in such meetings. OK sometimes you do hear someone speak about hear in a bun.. and you go... groan... but not all advise is bad! It is just that you might expect a man of God to have other thoughts in mind than women's apparel especially at convention. Just think, people have come from far and near expecting and hopeful of hearing uplifting thoughts, food for the soul, spiritual counsel and direction. They have left their work, farms, business to climb the mountain and spend some time away from the world. For what do they need to listen to mundane degrading talk. It is coarse and base to be reduced to an object of criticism. Let's face it if you think the apparel of young women at convention is immodest you ned to take yourself off to a remote hermitage. How insulting to women it is to hear that the slit in your skirt is immodest (if you are that woman wearing a fashionable skirt!) The real immodesty as I see it is in the mind of whoever draws attention to potential evil thoughts that arise from the contemplating of the split. Be real. You do have to look fairly closely at a woman to actually notice the split in her skirt. Since most skirts are worn long these days the split is most likely ending where hems used to begin. The disobedience is on behalf of the protester since you can be sure it is certainly NOT God who lays such thoughts on anyone's heart or mind. Some people need help.Pronto!
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Post by in mind on Mar 1, 2008 11:25:55 GMT -5
from what i've learned from friends from Ireland, at each convention in Ireland one meeting is held (usually an afternoon meeting) in which the "key speaker" has been asked by "those in authority" to address the "standards of the kingdom" - for example, the dress code, TV, internet use, dating, marriage issues, etc. consequently such a meeting is referred to as a "standards meeting" (that is the term these folks used). apparently the speaker in such a meeting is not given the freedom to speak whatever God lays on his heart, but is expected to "lay down the law" (so to speak) on such matters. the folks i know who have attended such meetings said that one younger brother who had been given this task had a difficult time carrying it out... i wonder if anyone on TMB has ever attended such a meeting or knows anyone who has? I have attended conventions were these type of thing is spoken. Some people critise our overseer for mentioning things such as the modesty of womens apparel. He is mocked for it, yet Paul did the exact same thing. Some speak about the dangers of things such as fornication (biblical), modesty (biblical), lust/desires of the flesh (wealth, fornication) and warned about things taking over our lives (TV, Internet, Jobs etc)... People are often critised for giving advise, but GOD has spoken to me in such meetings. OK sometimes you do hear someone speak about hear in a bun.. and you go... groan... but not all advise is bad! It is just that you might expect a man of God to have other thoughts in mind than women's apparel especially at convention. Just think, people have come from far and near expecting and hopeful of hearing uplifting thoughts, food for the soul, spiritual counsel and direction. They have left their work, farms, business , education to climb the mountain and spend some time away from the world. For what do they need to listen to mundane degrading talk.? It is coarse and base to be reduced to an object of criticism. How would you feel if you were a woman in such a situation? Let's face it if you think the apparel of young women at convention is immodest you need to take yourself off to a remote hermitage. You cannot live in Dublin for example. How insulting to women it is to hear that the slit in your skirt is immodest (if you are that woman wearing a fashionable skirt!) The real immodesty as I see it is in the mind of whoever draws attention to potential evil thoughts that arise from the contemplating of the split. Be real. You do have to look fairly closely at a woman to actually notice the split in her skirt. Since most skirts are worn long these days the split is most likely ending where hems used to begin. The disobedience is on behalf of the protester since you can be sure it is certainly NOT God who lays such thoughts on anyone's heart or mind. Some people need help.Pronto!
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Post by base on Mar 1, 2008 11:36:36 GMT -5
Teenager, Are you referring to Tommie Gamble's famous 'slits in skirts talks'? It always struck me as odd that an elderly single man would appear to have such an obsession about womens' clothes. Regards Robert Yes I am. I think most men would get a little distracted by revealing clothes? He indicated a few times that it was a distraction, which I admire his honesty in doing. How base! You underestimate men, or are you such an arrogant female that you genuinely think like this? What kind of men do you know?? You really ought to get to know the average decent man. You cast a slur on all men with such a warped view. Moost men, particularly at convention have other things on their minds. (Except the one or two of course who have been studying all the women in the meeting in order to criticise their choice of clothes. Imagine having such an empty mind and heart at convention! Some need our prayers.
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Post by o on Mar 1, 2008 16:15:07 GMT -5
Yes I am. I think most men would get a little distracted by revealing clothes? He indicated a few times that it was a distraction, which I admire his honesty in doing. How base! You underestimate men, or are you such an arrogant female that you genuinely think like this? What kind of men do you know?? You really ought to get to know the average decent man. You cast a slur on all men with such a warped view. Moost men, particularly at convention have other things on their minds. (Except the one or two of course who have been studying all the women in the meeting in order to criticise their choice of clothes. Imagine having such an empty mind and heart at convention! Some need our prayers. It's been said before: Tommy rants about women and all their failings (I'm not certain I've ever heard him commend one) and blithely ignores the dress code of the men. Shaggy hair sticky with gel to make it spikey and often on the collar, jeans or casual trousers in the meeting/mission/convention, frayed hems on same, collars un-buttoned and no ties. Whatever about modesty, where is the respect for the God before whom you meet? What is sauce for the goose is most certainly not sauce for the Gamble.
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Post by ii on Mar 2, 2008 3:15:28 GMT -5
How base! You underestimate men, or are you such an arrogant female that you genuinely think like this? What kind of men do you know?? You really ought to get to know the average decent man. You cast a slur on all men with such a warped view. Moost men, particularly at convention have other things on their minds. (Except the one or two of course who have been studying all the women in the meeting in order to criticise their choice of clothes. Imagine having such an empty mind and heart at convention! Some need our prayers. It's been said before: Tommy rants about women and all their failings (I'm not certain I've ever heard him commend one) and blithely ignores the dress code of the men. Shaggy hair sticky with gel to make it spikey and often on the collar, jeans or casual trousers in the meeting/mission/convention, frayed hems on same, collars un-buttoned and no ties. Whatever about modesty, where is the respect for the God before whom you meet? What is sauce for the goose is most certainly not sauce for the Gamble. will ya stop ya moanin for pity sake i'm gettin a head ache
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Post by asprin on Mar 2, 2008 9:30:24 GMT -5
Go take an asprin and let us have our say. You may not agree, so don't act like the typical conversation stopper!
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