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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Mar 19, 2011 17:05:16 GMT -5
Ex Teenager - How do you account for the behaviour you describe? Does it emanate from the lack of teaching on the seriousness of sin? Never mind the workers or fellow man, is there no fear of God that should regulate lifestyles? I'm a bit puzzled, Irvine. You have repeatedly stated that you will be doing "objective" research, yet this question seems to come from a particular set of values - you speak of "the seriousness of sin," and of "fear of God that should regulate lifestyles?" Are you simply presenting this as your understanding of the workers' position on these things? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with these views, but your questions do not seem entirely "objective," at least in the manner they are worded here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 17:18:36 GMT -5
Irvine has previously stated that 'Admittedly this is an academic research project but I want the final outcome to be to God's glory and to end up with a work that will be instrumental in leading misled souls to the Saviour.' Not quite my interpretation of 'objective' but there you go. Matt10
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Post by irvinegrey on Mar 20, 2011 17:29:53 GMT -5
The wording of my questions may be open to being misunderstood. Thanks for your comment Al. Objective research includes asking difficult questions. I am working on the asumption that those who profess have a consciousness of the seriousness of sin and that a lifestyle that reflects otherwise indicates that there is no fear of God. In simple terms I am trying to establish if there is a dichotomy between orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Maybe my wording is still clumsy but hopefully you will see where I am going!
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Post by irvinegrey on Mar 20, 2011 17:51:00 GMT -5
Matt 10 maybe this statement too was also poorly worded. Nevertheless I do want my work to glorify God. 'Misled souls to the Saviour' whilst maybe a noble intention, I was wrong and it cannot be an obective of this research. I always stand to be corrected. Any help you can give with the research would be much appreciated.
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Post by johnfields on Jun 19, 2017 5:10:10 GMT -5
I wonder how anyone would profess in the British Isles as workers are ultra strict on many issues..cameras to convetion, swimming, TVs, radios, etc. Tommie Gamble and Dennis Fenton must really have this region under tight control. Who's Dennis Fenton? Ive never heard of him. Is he Tommie's new right hand man? I thought Norman Nash was or David Delaney? Just for an update, I believe Dennis Fenton and Ben Crompton were overseers of England and Wales for a period after Ken Paginton died in 1997, if I've got that right. Then I think Dennis Fenton passed away a few years later, and Mr. Crompton has been the overseer here ever since. David Delaney is now his right-hand man, replacing Percy Watkins who sadly committed suicide. In Ireland, Craig Fulton has really been the de facto overseer for about three years now, with Tommy Gamble still around but apparently taking a bit of a back seat. The pair of them seem to be widely disliked in Ireland. Corrections: 1. It sounds like Dennis Fenton was never really in charge. 2. Craig Fulton seems to be liked a lot more than Tommy Gamble, although I've certainly heard plenty of complaints about Craig. This is of course, just rumour. I've spoken to Craig and he has the ability to be pleasant and charming, but others have suggested to me that this is a bit of a facade, whereas with Tommy, what you see is what you get. The worst I can personally say about Craig is that he was not willing to make a phone call to an elderly lady with Alzheimer's assuring her that it was up to her whether she has a TV or visits non-professing relatives or not, because she's in Ben's territory and not Craig's. If I was him, I would not worry about whose territory is whose. I would worry about someone with Alzheimer's being cut off from relatives and not having enough mental stimulation -- when that's a problem I could largely fix with a phonecall or two.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 19, 2017 8:14:40 GMT -5
John: What you wrote concurs with what TMB Penguin posted in April 2014 about the UK Overseers:
Norman Henderson, England and Wales, died 1992; was succeeded by Ken Paginton who has been deceased more than 15 years although Dennis Fenton may have had charge for a while. Currently Ben Crompton works in England and Wales. Currently Alan Beggs was installed a couple years ago in Scotland.
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Post by LITTLEPADDY on Jun 19, 2017 15:34:24 GMT -5
"In Ireland, Craig Fulton has really been the de facto overseer for about three years now, with Tommy Gamble still around but apparently taking a bit of a back seat. The pair of them seem to be widely disliked in Ireland."
I believe that part of what you state is true,but also part of this is wrong, if my hearing is ok. Tommie Gamble is liked by very few and his manner and diplomacy rot He changes his mind a lot and doesn't care whose feelings he hurts or what damage he does
Craig is liked by most, in fact I have never heard anyone speak / or say they heard anyone speak bad of him. I believe some of Tommie's decisions were overturned because he couldn't make sense of them and they were wrong.
Craig may not agree with you or me but he wont shun you because of that. He is the same to 2x2's and those who have left and those he meets in home who never knew 2x2 themselves I am only saying what I have heard many miles up the grapevine. I feel if I met him he would greet me with a smile and discuss the weather etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 4:29:34 GMT -5
Who's Dennis Fenton? Ive never heard of him. Is he Tommie's new right hand man? I thought Norman Nash was or David Delaney? Just for an update, I believe Dennis Fenton and Ben Crompton were overseers of England and Wales for a period after Ken Paginton died in 1997, if I've got that right. Then I think Dennis Fenton passed away a few years later, and Mr. Crompton has been the overseer here ever since. David Delaney is now his right-hand man, replacing Percy Watkins who sadly committed suicide. In Ireland, Craig Fulton has really been the de facto overseer for about three years now, with Tommy Gamble still around but apparently taking a bit of a back seat. The pair of them seem to be widely disliked in Ireland. You have to be careful about how rumour differs from reality. There is a lot of humbug said about Dennis Fenton's position. He was NEVER overseer and for very good reasons (a good few in the UK know those reasons) . But he got treated diplomatically in announcements etc. He was the helper to Norman Henderson. When Norman died (suddenly) everyone knew that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken Paginton (who was overseeing Madagascar) was rushed home to the UK and installed as head (with Dennis diplomatically named as helper- but everyone knew exactly who was in charge). Then sadly Ken got ill a few years later - he knew very well that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken didn't leave the overseership to be dealt with after his death, and ensured what happened by declaring publicly in various places at special meetings held shortly before his death that Ben would be leading England once he( Ken) had died (again with the usual diplomacy that Dennis would be Ben's helper etc. Again, everyone knew exactly who was in charge.). Dennis was nowhere near ever holding the reins.
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Post by johnfields on Jun 20, 2017 5:04:02 GMT -5
Just for an update, I believe Dennis Fenton and Ben Crompton were overseers of England and Wales for a period after Ken Paginton died in 1997, if I've got that right. Then I think Dennis Fenton passed away a few years later, and Mr. Crompton has been the overseer here ever since. David Delaney is now his right-hand man, replacing Percy Watkins who sadly committed suicide. In Ireland, Craig Fulton has really been the de facto overseer for about three years now, with Tommy Gamble still around but apparently taking a bit of a back seat. The pair of them seem to be widely disliked in Ireland. You have to be careful about how rumour differs from reality. There is a lot of humbug said about Dennis Fenton's position. He was NEVER overseer and for very good reasons (a good few in the UK know those reasons) . But he got treated diplomatically in announcements etc. He was the helper to Norman Henderson. When Norman died (suddenly) everyone knew that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken Paginton (who was overseeing Madagascar) was rushed home to the UK and installed as head (with Dennis diplomatically named as helper- but everyone knew exactly who was in charge). Then sadly Ken got ill a few years later - he knew very well that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken didn't leave the overseership to be dealt with after his death, and ensured what happened by declaring publicly in various places at special meetings held shortly before his death that Ben would be leading England once he( Ken) had died (again with the usual diplomacy that Dennis would be Ben's helper etc. Again, everyone knew exactly who was in charge.). Dennis was nowhere near ever holding the reins. Thanks for this, very interesting. I've never heard anyone say anything bad about Dennis (so far), and can't say the same for Ken or Ben. I'm very curious now as to the reason Dennis couldn't be overseer though. From the little I've heard, it sounded like he would have made quite a good overseer. I had kind of suspected Ben was the head guy all along after Ken passed away.
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Post by continuer on Jun 20, 2017 6:07:20 GMT -5
Dennis passed away several years ago and there is no point in raking over past wrongs in this case (we leave such matters now in the hands of the Righteous Judge who knows all things and makes no mistakes). Suffice it to say that anyone who really knew Dennis would understand why he was entirely unsuitable to be given the reins, unchecked, in England. Curiosity does not justify going into any further detail here.
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Post by johnfields on Jun 21, 2017 19:27:27 GMT -5
Just for an update, I believe Dennis Fenton and Ben Crompton were overseers of England and Wales for a period after Ken Paginton died in 1997, if I've got that right. Then I think Dennis Fenton passed away a few years later, and Mr. Crompton has been the overseer here ever since. David Delaney is now his right-hand man, replacing Percy Watkins who sadly committed suicide. In Ireland, Craig Fulton has really been the de facto overseer for about three years now, with Tommy Gamble still around but apparently taking a bit of a back seat. The pair of them seem to be widely disliked in Ireland. You have to be careful about how rumour differs from reality. There is a lot of humbug said about Dennis Fenton's position. He was NEVER overseer and for very good reasons (a good few in the UK know those reasons) . But he got treated diplomatically in announcements etc. He was the helper to Norman Henderson. When Norman died (suddenly) everyone knew that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken Paginton (who was overseeing Madagascar) was rushed home to the UK and installed as head (with Dennis diplomatically named as helper- but everyone knew exactly who was in charge). Then sadly Ken got ill a few years later - he knew very well that Dennis couldn't be overseer. Ken didn't leave the overseership to be dealt with after his death, and ensured what happened by declaring publicly in various places at special meetings held shortly before his death that Ben would be leading England once he( Ken) had died (again with the usual diplomacy that Dennis would be Ben's helper etc. Again, everyone knew exactly who was in charge.). Dennis was nowhere near ever holding the reins. Someone else who seems very trustworthy told me much the same thing recently. Dennis Fenton was never really in charge.
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Post by alistairhenderson on Jul 15, 2017 0:56:10 GMT -5
It sounds to me like most of the head workers in the British Islands are and have been 'light-weights'.
Therefore, whether Dennis Fenton was ever in 'charge' or not, it's still the 'Charge' of the Light-Weight Brigade!
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