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Post by substances on Apr 3, 2008 11:40:38 GMT -5
start saying that the things that God DID are all figurative, the belief system they have established will crumble. Actually , I was trying to paraphrase Hebrew 1, where we
can read [to grasp the concept and thus understand the symbols the author used to figuatively explain his thought process!!] hmmm
Faith is the ''substance'' [meaning that faith is not ''figurative'' but a very real thing!] of things ''hoped'' for, and the evidence of the things not seen.
I really like this verse, as it tells me that to be really enjoying the life, we can hope for these things of real substance, even though they appear to be figurative, and not seen [material substances]
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 11:59:07 GMT -5
So how could God have divorced any people, when the marriage is to be that of his son? Aren't we getting a little carried away here? yes, the OT ''marriage'' is difficult to understand, imo, because at the same time that it was figuative, it was real, does that make sense? Hebrews were actually covenated to the ''word of God'' and/or the [law and commandments] when they broke these ''laws'' they were ''sinning'' and seperating from God. Remember John 1:1, The word was God....
its sorta a controversial verse, eh? , but we won't go there, just now, but my understanding is that even though the Word was God, God was and IS more than just the {word/his word}
God is the Supreme Being. In order to fellowship, with human beings, he created {his word} ...and this word was God, [or Logos,etc] our human languages was/is understood through understanding who God is and thus we can begin to understand who God is through language/his word
God needed a better way to communicate with us humans, because we so badly misunderstood and rejected his word/laws through Moses, and His plan was to send his Son, to be the ''word of God, made/manifested in flesh''
I have a real problem trying to explain this, sorry if I failed. IMO, and actually this needs to be revealed to you by God, himself.
but using this understanding, then the OT marriage to the covenants, leads directly into the NT word of God, who is Gods Son, Jesus.
I don't expect much agreement, but at least I got my chance to try to express it again.
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 3, 2008 12:13:38 GMT -5
start saying that the things that God DID are all figurative, the belief system they have established will crumble. Actually , I was trying to paraphrase Hebrew 1, where we
can read [to grasp the concept and thus understand the symbols the author used to figuatively explain his thought process!!] hmmm
Faith is the ''substance'' [meaning that faith is not ''figurative'' but a very real thing!] of things ''hoped'' for, and the evidence of the things not seen.
I really like this verse, as it tells me that to be really enjoying the life, we can hope for these things of real substance, even though they appear to be figurative, and not seen [material substances]Paraphrasing is one way of avoiding the reality of the facts. That way the truth can be swept under the carpet, and false beliefs can still remain intact.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 12:23:51 GMT -5
Actually , I was trying to paraphrase Hebrew 1, where we
can read [to grasp the concept and thus understand the symbols the author used to figuatively explain his thought process!!] hmmm
Faith is the ''substance'' [meaning that faith is not ''figurative'' but a very real thing!] of things ''hoped'' for, and the evidence of the things not seen.
I really like this verse, as it tells me that to be really enjoying the life, we can hope for these things of real substance, even though they appear to be figurative, and not seen [material substances] Paraphrasing is one way of avoiding the reality of the facts. That way the truth can be swept under the carpet, and false beliefs can still remain intact. So you think words are more real than faith?
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 3, 2008 14:24:49 GMT -5
Edy, do I understand you right? Here is the best I can figure from the discussion: God was married to the children of Israel. Then they split into two: Judah, and the northern kingdom, which kept the name Israel. So then God was married to both Judah and her "sister" Israel. He divorced Israel and sent her away. Judah was naughty too, but he kept Judah (the Jews) anyway. Presumably when Assyria conquered Israel but couldn't conquer Judah. God's status today is that he is divorced from Israel, still married to the Jews, and also betrothed to a third bride. I posted also on the "remarriage" thread. Yes, you are getting it! I will add this though.....the "third" bride will all be added through the blood of Jesus. There are NO Jews (or anyone else) who will be a part of the "third" bride just because of WHO they are by genealogy. After Jesus death (God's death, if you will), everyone who follows Christ is a spiritual "JEW" because He is the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" and the head of that tribe. E
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 3, 2008 14:27:47 GMT -5
So how could God have divorced any people, when the marriage is to be that of his son? Aren't we getting a little carried away here? Yep! If you don't believe Jesus "is God", then you run into a logic problem - huh!! E
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Apr 3, 2008 16:47:49 GMT -5
Sylvestra, carrying the analogy a bit, when the Jews (Judah) were later carried off into Babylon, and the temple destroyed, this was not a divorce...more like God filing for temporary separation...cause they got back together? Or are you saying that God has divorced twice, and the Jews will be part of the third bride? Some Revelation commentators will say that God "divorced" Jerusalem in 70 A.D., giving her up to the nations who ravaged her and left her for dead. There will be no new wife until the New Jerusalem.
It's all so confusing to me!!!!
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 3, 2008 21:09:41 GMT -5
Sylvestra, carrying the analogy a bit, when the Jews (Judah) were later carried off into Babylon, and the temple destroyed, this was not a divorce...more like God filing for temporary separation...cause they got back together? Or are you saying that God has divorced twice, and the Jews will be part of the third bride? Some Revelation commentators will say that God "divorced" Jerusalem in 70 A.D., giving her up to the nations who ravaged her and left her for dead. There will be no new wife until the New Jerusalem. It's all so confusing to me!!!! I have also heard the idea that God did finally divorce Judah in 70 A.D. The Scripture does not give us the exact description of it as it does with the house of Israel. It seems to stand to reason that Judah would also have to be divorced from Him or completely dead in order for them to re-unite through Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and join with the rest of His "new bride". Best, Edy
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2008 10:26:33 GMT -5
quote] I have also heard the idea that God did finally divorce Judah in 70 A.D. The Scripture does not give us the exact description of it as it does with the house of Israel. It seems to stand to reason that Judah would also have to be divorced from Him or completely dead The issue with the house of Israel, seems to be concerning the wicked kings that ruled there. God gave this kingdom the heave, but not necessarily the good people that lived there.
All the tribes were intermarrying as far as I know, and many from the 10 northern tribes would have been related through marriage to those in the south country. [what do you call the mixed marriages children, ..are they from Israel or Judah? ]The END of the covenant between God and Israel/Hebrews coincided with the veil of the temple being ''rent in twain''. That was the sign that the New covenant, was now in place, the sacrifice of the Lamb completed the Old covenant , and was the end of it. The Jews didn't understand this as being the END , and they are still wanting to rebuild the temple, and if they do, I would guess that they would want this ''veil'' , too, as the veil was the most important part of the temple, that being the place where God spoke once a year to the high priest.
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Post by Visiting on Apr 7, 2008 7:29:47 GMT -5
So how could God have divorced any people, when the marriage is to be that of his son? Aren't we getting a little carried away here? Yep! If you don't believe Jesus "is God", then you run into a logic problem - huh!! E There are many references in the Bible about finding/preparing a bride for the Son. Although I believe Jesus was equal with God, I find it hard to understand the idea that they are the one entity. There is so much scripture referring to the father and son (OT and NT). It seems much more logical that God is now working to find/prepare a bride that will love his son. As such the marriage is not a 2nd marriage but a first for the Son. I often wonder why God has gone to such lengths to prepare this bride, but perhaps (and I only speculate) it could be that if God has been hurt he wants to avoid his son experiencing the same. It says somewhere about satan being created more beautiful than the other angels, one has to wonder why? Bride of God??? (Don't think I can explain my jumbled thoughts)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2008 17:40:29 GMT -5
If you don't believe Jesus "is God", There are many references in the Bible about finding/preparing a bride for the Son. Although I believe Jesus was equal with God, I find it hard to understand the idea that they are the one entity. There is so much scripture referring to the father and son (OT and NT). It seems much more logical that God is now working to find/prepare a bride that will love his son. As such the marriage is not a 2nd marriage but a first for the Son. I often wonder why God has gone to such lengths to prepare this bride, but perhaps (and I only speculate) it could be that if God has been hurt he wants to avoid his son experiencing the same. It says somewhere about satan being created more beautiful than the other angels, one has to wonder why? Bride of God??? (Don't think I can explain my jumbled thoughts) thanks visitor. It is rare to find someone on this board that comes exactly the same thoughts as me, but you come very close. Hmm, perhaps Paul didny know everything either, and he said he only could see ''darkly''. Then, for us to just appreciate the thoughts they scribed for our bennifit. and having the faith to go with the revelation we get from God.
As far as Jesus being equal to God, that is one of the bibles mysteries, to some? It seems that according to Hebrews 1, there was a time that Jesus did not have/possess ''all things''. And yet we know that all things belong to God. Then came the time that God gave all things to his son [Jesus].....yet ''all things'' seems like a concept that cannot be grasped by humans, do we take it to mean all things [implied: 'pertaining to this creation' ]
that is my ''hunch'', because I believe that God still has as much eternalness and infiniteness as ever! It is just that he gave Jesus his promised inheritance. my thoughts are jumbled, about these thoughts, ...find it difficult to know the absolute truth in this present life, as the concept of infinity seems far too incomprehendable to me, now. just opinion/s.
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Post by Visiting on Apr 8, 2008 7:56:18 GMT -5
thanks visitor. It is rare to find someone on this board that comes exactly the same thoughts as me, but you come very close. Hmm, perhaps Paul didny know everything either, and he said he only could see ''darkly''. Then, for us to just appreciate the thoughts they scribed for our bennifit. and having the faith to go with the revelation we get from God.
As far as Jesus being equal to God, that is one of the bibles mysteries, to some? It seems that according to Hebrews 1, there was a time that Jesus did not have/possess ''all things''. And yet we know that all things belong to God. Then came the time that God gave all things to his son [Jesus].....yet ''all things'' seems like a concept that cannot be grasped by humans, do we take it to mean all things [implied: 'pertaining to this creation' ]
that is my ''hunch'', because I believe that God still has as much eternalness and infiniteness as ever! It is just that he gave Jesus his promised inheritance. my thoughts are jumbled, about these thoughts, ...find it difficult to know the absolute truth in this present life, as the concept of infinity seems far too incomprehendable to me, now. just opinion/s. Thanks for your thoughts too. Yep, I agree, infinity is not something that the human mind can comprehend. I believe that there are aspects that God does not intend that we can understand now, but what he does want us to know he has left very clearly on record that even the most simple can understand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 9:43:10 GMT -5
thanks visitor. It is rare to find someone on this board that comes exactly the same thoughts as me, but you come very close. Hmm, perhaps Paul didny know everything either, and he said he only could see ''darkly''. Then, for us to just appreciate the thoughts they scribed for our bennifit. and having the faith to go with the revelation we get from God.
As far as Jesus being equal to God, that is one of the bibles mysteries, to some? It seems that according to Hebrews 1, there was a time that Jesus did not have/possess ''all things''. And yet we know that all things belong to God. Then came the time that God gave all things to his son [Jesus].....yet ''all things'' seems like a concept that cannot be grasped by humans, do we take it to mean all things [implied: 'pertaining to this creation' ]
that is my ''hunch'', because I believe that God still has as much eternalness and infiniteness as ever! It is just that he gave Jesus his promised inheritance. my thoughts are jumbled, about these thoughts, ...find it difficult to know the absolute truth in this present life, as the concept of infinity seems far too incomprehendable to me, now. just opinion/s. Yep, I agree, infinity is not something that the human mind can comprehend. I believe that there are aspects that God does not intend that we can understand now, but what he does want us to know he has left very clearly on record that even the most simple can understand. i totally agree with that!
and, if we cannot understand it, just be patient, eh?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2008 9:53:24 GMT -5
So how could God have divorced any people, when the marriage is to be that of his son? Aren't we getting a little carried away here? Yep! If you don't believe Jesus "is God", then you run into a logic problem - huh!! E It would seem that god dying would present some logic problems on its own!
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Apr 8, 2008 14:38:38 GMT -5
we are doing a study of Revelation here 2x2doctrine.proboards104.com/index.cgi?board=current This book is instrumental in initiating Christology; John is way ahead of his time. Though it doesn't seem that the Spirit is yet part of the trilogy when Revelation is written.
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Post by noncatho on Apr 8, 2008 15:07:22 GMT -5
we are doing a study of Revelation here 2x2doctrine.proboards104.com/index.cgi?board=current This book is instrumental in initiating Christology; John is way ahead of his time. Though it doesn't seem that the Spirit is yet part of the trilogy when Revelation is written. why wasn't it? I don't understand it atall, guess thhey'd have to shoot me with the other dunces!
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