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Post by spiderman on Mar 30, 2008 9:33:04 GMT -5
John Starkweather is in Bozeman Montana. I spent a lot of time with John when I was on the Texas staff and he was overseer there. I am very well acquainted with his and Truitt's beliefs. To Clearday -- I know the anonymous poster -- you can trust what she wrote regarding Truitt. How is "that doctrine" so dangerous in the eyes of traditional workers? Because it ultimately puts the emphasis on GRACE, leaving no room for WORKS as a means to salvation, thus would turn the f&w doctrine totally on its head. Just my opinion. THANK YOU MR. NELSON You have, in a sentence described the whole situation. I was told that an Iowan overseer stated that if they preached a gospel of grace the friends would just go on a sinning spree.
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Post by juliette on Mar 30, 2008 9:56:03 GMT -5
What about the "sexual misconduct" issues surrounding Mr. Oyler? Were those substantiated?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 11:31:29 GMT -5
What about the "sexual misconduct" issues surrounding Mr. Oyler? Were those substantiated? It doesn't hurt to keep in mind!! One of the favorite tricks of 2x2 leadership to downgrade political rivals is to very vaguely imply some kind of 'hard to get a definate handle on' impropriety (like sexual concerns or other complaints of friends ) - If such a ugly seed is sown in the fellowship, no one will ask a question and no one will complain what ever happens to them.
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alana
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Post by alana on Mar 30, 2008 12:20:12 GMT -5
You're welcome Clearday, I'll try to call Truitt this afternoon and tell him that there are a couple of folks who would like to chat. He is not one to get very rattled. What I have seen and heard from him, he is the kind of man you would want next to you if you were heading to war: level headed, clear vision, courageous and smart. I also saw him at his parents' dining room table weeping openly about scripture and what Jesus means to all of us. I consider him a brother in Christ. Take care Friend and happy chatty. What a beautiful description of this worker. A model for others. There are many injustices in life!
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Post by anon on Mar 31, 2008 0:41:54 GMT -5
Ask his companions. Especially young brother workers. [Potentially libelous comment removed to comply with ProBoards TOS] Nothing more then a unsubstantiated rumor from an anonymous poster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 1:12:05 GMT -5
Ask his companions. Especially young brother workers. [Potentially libelous comment removed to comply with ProBoards TOS]. Nothing more then a unsubstantiated rumor from an anonymous poster. And about a fellow that hasn't been in the work for several decades.
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2008 1:43:24 GMT -5
What about the "sexual misconduct" issues surrounding Mr. Oyler? Were those substantiated? It doesn't hurt to keep in mind!! One of the favorite tricks of 2x2 leadership to downgrade political rivals is to very vaguely imply some kind of 'hard to get a definate handle on' impropriety (like sexual concerns or other complaints of friends ) - If such a ugly seed is sown in the fellowship, no one will ask a question and no one will complain what ever happens to them. If this were a 6th grade class it would make more sense. When vaguely defined - ask for specifics. Why will no one question? It seems like there are some widespread major sexual hangups.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 7:51:59 GMT -5
More specific!! If a person reads this letter to the Alaskan friends in 1989 written by the absolute top 2x2 leaders of Western North America you will notice the subtle effort to initiate suspicion of sexual impropriety without really saying it (no specifics-just non defined hints). There is absolutely no doubt that the purpose of this letter was to influence a political development that seemed threatening to some. JP (from Alberta) mentioned in the circled paragraph, was a very well known as interested in maneuvering himself into leadership position.. JP did this very very same thing 3 or 4 years later with another rival (RJ) and got him put out of the work with homo-sexual allegations 20 years old, that we personally carefully checked into and found without relevant merit. But in the group, all that is needed is a hint of sexual impropriety and no-one (even his friends) will ask a question or dare go out on a limb to support. This was an extremely clever political move .. and him being a very effective speaker made it even more convincing. RJ was out of the work for a few years and then convinced the eastern block of his innocence and is now a respected worker in Oklahoma from what I understand. JP actually fell on his own trick a few years later and has had seriously wing-clipped influence since. Check this out www.anotherstep.net/alaskaletter.jpg Edgar My wife professed in a mission that Ron Johnson had here in Sweden when he was in Sweden for part of a year in 1990 - After he returned to the US and was expelled from the work, we asked him to come and visit us in Sweden (which he did) as we were extremely perplexed as to what was going on. ---- What we found out horrified us, but within a couple of years of his visit to us he was accepted back into the work by the eastern workers (which infuriated western workers especiall JP!) so we let it go. We were excommunicated ourselves 10 years later!!!
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Post by critic on Mar 31, 2008 7:57:30 GMT -5
Workers dropping hints about someone moral impropriety is the old poisoning the well trick. They are good at it.
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2008 8:03:34 GMT -5
Workers dropping hints about someone moral impropriety is the old poisoning the well trick. They are good at it. The point is that if you call their bluff it simply doesn't work. They either have to admit it was a fabricated story or tell the details. If it is true then it is out in the open and can be dealt with.
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 31, 2008 8:30:01 GMT -5
When we were in the process of exiting the workers fabricated stories and when confronted lied that they did not say things about us. Those that had heard the accusations called and told us. The damage had been done and you know the workers are never questioned. When we visited some of the friends that were dying the workers accused us of trying to destroying their faith. In one particular case of Earl Shook- John Crews was present for the visit and when we heard some of the friends say we had visited to destroy Earls faith-I confronted John on the phone. He said I encouraged Earl in his last days not discouraged him. Not sure that was the story he had told the friends since the derogatory comments didn't have a life of their own.
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Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
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Post by Nichole M on Mar 31, 2008 16:53:44 GMT -5
These allegations of Truitt is the first time I have heard of them. I lived in Alaska during the "Alaska Situation". This was not mentioned during this time and I believe it would have as the sexual misconduct of Bob Ingram came out at the same time. So it would have been likely that if this allegation of Truitt is true that we would have heard of it then.
Nichole
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Post by Trinity definition on Mar 31, 2008 17:33:30 GMT -5
I am surprised that no Christian has commented on the page 1 post below. Is the poster saying that the Trinity doctrine says that a Christian believer and follower of Jesus can't sin? If so, that is in error. Or is the statement bolded below just more poor communications that we see so much here? Sometimes I can't even tell which side of an argument people are on because of the lack of punctuation and clarity.
It seems to me that Truitt has been slandered on a couple of possible fears. One is that his views of Jesus being unable to sin is in line with the Trinity doctrine which is not accepted by the Western ministry. I did hear years ago that the concern was that this view could lead to unmitigated sin amongst the friends.
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Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
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Post by Nichole M on Mar 31, 2008 17:42:28 GMT -5
I am surprised that no Christian has commented on the page 1 post below. Is the poster saying that the Trinity doctrine says that a Christian believer and follower of Jesus can't sin? If so, that is in error. Or is the statement bolded below just more poor communications that we see so much here? Sometimes I can't even tell which side of an argument people are on because of the lack of punctuation and clarity. It seems to me that Truitt has been slandered on a couple of possible fears. One is that his views of Jesus being unable to sin is in line with the Trinity doctrine which is not accepted by the Western ministry. I did hear years ago that the concern was that this view could lead to unmitigated sin amongst the friends. The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son and God the holy Spirit. These three are one God with three distinct persons and roles. Because Jesus is God he was unable to sin. In no way does that mean a Christian can't sin. Christians are not God. Nichole
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Post by Alaska resident on Mar 31, 2008 21:18:45 GMT -5
Our family did not want to say anything, but the workers were informed and investigated.
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Post by another Alaskan on Apr 1, 2008 2:51:05 GMT -5
Nichole is right, you guys have your stories mixed up. Truitt was not accused of sexual misconduct. It was the Alaskan overseer, RI, who was. Truitt was kicked out for doctrinal issues as stated earlier in this post.
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Post by another from AK on Apr 1, 2008 4:25:34 GMT -5
I'm under the impression the misconduct of BI was a misunderstanding between himself and one sister worker. Once rumors began to fly, he spoke directly to this sister worker and cleared the misunderstanding up. However, this did not stop the rumors.
I believe there was even one rumor about grenades in the buns of professing ladies?
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 1, 2008 4:36:46 GMT -5
see how someones reputation can be ruined by allegations? Now it appears OT didnt do anything. How nice to spread rumors that are unfounded. I think I'm going back to the innocent until proven guilty - or evidence showing clearly they are guilty!"
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Post by faune on Apr 9, 2014 12:42:28 GMT -5
I believe I just found this old thread (2008) on Truitt Olyer that I was looking for earlier in relation to the controversy in Alaska in 1990 over Truitt and another worker being ex-communicated from the work for preaching the Trinity doctrine in his gospel meetings. Although Nathan insists that a few workers have done this in the past, I find it hard to believe, considering the circumstances surrounding this man's removal along with a number of friends who were up in arms in Alaska over what happened in the 2x2's back around 1990. Here's the thread where we have been discussing this matter relating to what the 2x2's actually teach regarding the Trinity and different things we linked as the gospel message of Christianity today.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21905/truth-discussed-on-aussie-show?page=5
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Post by Greg on Apr 9, 2014 13:15:11 GMT -5
I believe I just found this old thread (2008) on Truitt Olyster that I was looking for earlier in relation to the controversy in Alaska in 1990 over Truitt and another worker being ex-communicated from the work for preaching the Trinity doctrine in his gospel meetings. Although Nathan insists that a few workers have done this in the past, I find it hard to believe, considering the circumstances surrounding this man's removal along with a number of friends who were up in arms in Alaska over what happened in the 2x2's back around 1990. Here's the thread where we have been discussing this matter relating to what the 2x2's actually teach regarding the Trinity and different things we linked as the gospel message of Christianity today.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21905/truth-discussed-on-aussie-show?page=5 I do not recall if I heard of Truitt and others being axed because of teaching the trinity doctrine. I do recall hearing there was trouble because supposedly Truitt and others were teaching "he that is born of God (spiritual children of God - not just Jesus) cannot sin". of course what was taught and to what objection and to what consequence might not be determined. He said....she said....he said she said....I heard....and the one I like best: "I already told you more than I know."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 13:18:26 GMT -5
Having been Truitt's companion and having had many discussions about his perception of the "personality" of Yahu-shuah, I am very sorry now that I was not well enough versed in the doctrine of God as Father Son and Holy Ghost that I lacked sufficient of the Spirit to convey my own thoughts to him. We did not agree then on the biblical scripture as it revealed God to be, nor of the Word, Yahu'shuah, made flesh and living and dwelling among humanity, nor do I personally agree with what I remember of that doctrine even now. As a person, I known of none finer than Truitt. Same with John Starkweather. And Truitt's now deceased brother, Walter. I personally liked all three of them.
Sadly we are all too soon old, too late educated, certainly I have been. And I do not agree that it was all a result of struggle between east and west power brokers. Not in the least.
Bob Ingram is another story, which was related to me by some of the women workers involved. Tragic for all involved.
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Post by faune on Jan 31, 2015 1:03:28 GMT -5
I believe I just found this old thread (2008) on Truitt Olyster that I was looking for earlier in relation to the controversy in Alaska in 1990 over Truitt and another worker being ex-communicated from the work for preaching the Trinity doctrine in his gospel meetings. Although Nathan insists that a few workers have done this in the past, I find it hard to believe, considering the circumstances surrounding this man's removal along with a number of friends who were up in arms in Alaska over what happened in the 2x2's back around 1990. Here's the thread where we have been discussing this matter relating to what the 2x2's actually teach regarding the Trinity and different things we linked as the gospel message of Christianity today.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21905/truth-discussed-on-aussie-show?page=5 I do not recall if I heard of Truitt and others being axed because of teaching the trinity doctrine. I do recall hearing there was trouble because supposedly Truitt and others were teaching "he that is born of God (spiritual children of God - not just Jesus) cannot sin". of course what was taught and to what objection and to what consequence might not be determined. He said....she said....he said she said....I heard....and the one I like best: "I already told you more than I know." Greg ~ I believe you have a point here. This may have been part of what he was teaching, too. I heard that Truitt Oyler believed in Jesus as God and also in the gospel of grace. However, he believed the reason Jesus could not sin was because he didn't have a human nature ~ that Jesus only possessed a divine nature. Of course, this would go against the doctrine of the Atonement in which it is taught that Jesus was fully human and fully God. It was his human nature that made it possible for him to atone for our sins and also to intercede for us. So, without Jesus possessing a human nature, this would not be possible. You might want to check out another thread on this same topic for more information along these lines, too? I believe Dennis Jacobsen captures it best in what was believed back in time by Truitt Oyler and others at the time. professing.proboards.com/thread/13523/any-truths-excommunicated?page=2 However, there is a verse in the Bible pertaining to what you just mentioned above in 1 John 3:9. Perhaps he was quoting the KJV? biblehub.com/1_john/3-9.htm
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 31, 2015 9:31:35 GMT -5
Thanks Gene -- I am just curious, was John part of the original Montana staff when Tom Lyness was still living (and Montana was part of the east)? To my knowledge, the combined field of Montana & N Wyoming were never a part of the eastern territory of Geo Walker. Tom Lyness was an Irishman who professed in Ireland in 1902, entered the work in 1903, and came to Canada in 1905. In 1915, Tom was the first worker who began preaching in Montana, and stayed there until his death in 1970. He and his sister Annie are buried in Manhattan, Montana and share the same tombstone. When Tom died in 1970, Howard Mooney assumed the responsibility for MT-NWy along with his other fields, Oregon & Southern Idaho. At which time the combined fields began to be shown on the workers lists.
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kip
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Post by kip on Apr 2, 2019 6:03:09 GMT -5
Anyone on here attend or have attended meetings in Ketchikan?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 11:03:20 GMT -5
Does anyone know where he is now? Is he still in Alaska or has he moved? Nichole He is on facebook
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