Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Posts: 486
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Post by Nichole M on Mar 28, 2008 15:43:10 GMT -5
Does anyone know where he is now? Is he still in Alaska or has he moved?
Nichole
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Post by Yep on Mar 28, 2008 19:33:06 GMT -5
google this "truitt oyler" alaska
saw Judy there about 5 years ago
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2008 1:46:28 GMT -5
Interesting thread although I don't get all that much relevant information from a google query. I remember Truitt fairly well when he was in the work in Montana coming up for conventions at Aylesbury in Saskatchewan.
His excommunication was a big surprize to me at the time because none of us ordinary workers in Canada had ever noticed anything about this alledged 'doctrinal deviation'. Looking back on it now, I am convinced that it was more of a political coup than a concern over doctrine. It was at the time shortly after Tom Lyness passed away as long time overseer in Montana -- and the western workers were in the process of political manouvering Montana out of the eastern George Walkers realm, into being an obediant colony of the western top 2x2 leadership. They succeeded!!!! Ingram posed subordination problems of his own ---- and gave Truitt support. -- so he had to go as well. "Two bad birds, one stone"
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it aint the berries
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Post by it aint the berries on Mar 29, 2008 12:06:21 GMT -5
Bob I. had to "go." (out of the ministry that is)
However, he is welcome to be amongest the "friends."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2008 14:01:36 GMT -5
Bob I. had to "go." (out of the ministry that is) However, he is welcome to be amongest the "friends." Don't be silly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the conditions made by self-appointed representatives of God for him to be amongst the friends!!!! REASONS WHY ROBERT INGRAM HAS BEEN ASKED TO STEP ASIDE FROM THE MINISTRY: 1. Out of consideration for the preservation of integrity and unity in the Ministry. 2. Moral misconduct involving a number of young sister workers (1961-19--??) primarily while responsible as overseer of Alaska. 3. Failing to consult senior workers to have this matter resolved. 4. Justifying both Truitt Oyler and himself among Saints and Workers following the Seattle meeting of October, 1989. 5. Additional information obtained since the meeting in Seattle. October, 1989. 6. Failing to counteract Truitt Oyler's doctrine which was taught in Alaska. CONDITIONS FOR FELLOWSHIP: 1. Accepting the decision of the Elders of the Ministry as just and final and encouraging others to do the same. 2. Refraining from supporting Truitt Oyler's divisive doctrine while filling his position as a Saint. Failure to honor this would jeopardize his privilege of fellowship. 3. Being asked not to lead meetings. April 12, 1990 home.earthlink.net/~truth222/AlaskaLet2.jpg
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Post by toedgar on Mar 29, 2008 14:15:51 GMT -5
To clear things up -
TO was not excommunicated. He still attends Gospel Meetings.
BI has full saints rights in the fellowship. He takes part in meetings and conventions during testimony time.
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Post by Chat Room on Mar 29, 2008 14:28:32 GMT -5
One night in the chat room someone by the handle of HAPPY said that BI had gotten away with a large amount of money? ? Is that true?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2008 14:46:46 GMT -5
CONDITIONS FOR FELLOWSHIP: 1. Accepting the decision of the Elders of the Ministry as just and final and encouraging others to do the same.2. Refraining from supporting Truitt Oyler's divisive doctrine while filling his position as a Saint. Failure to honor this would jeopardize his privilege of fellowship.
3. Being asked not to lead meetings. April 12, 1990 Welcome in fellowship? ??!!!!!!!!! About as welcome as
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Post by no on Mar 29, 2008 14:54:33 GMT -5
One night in the chat room someone by the handle of HAPPY said that BI had gotten away with a large amount of money? ? Is that true? no
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Post by nitro on Mar 29, 2008 15:30:23 GMT -5
What was he teaching that was so off and away from the doctrine of "Truth"? nitro
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2008 15:38:37 GMT -5
We younger workers at that time were told that it was some issue about the original sin in the garden of Eden -- and that it was extremely dangerous. None of us really understood what the issue was but unfortunately didn't have the courage to ask questions for fear of revealing our ignorance.
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Post by nitro on Mar 29, 2008 15:42:45 GMT -5
TY Edgar. I know we all seem to be puppets never question the messenger. Always assume this has to be right.
nitro
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Post by alaskan on Mar 29, 2008 16:37:57 GMT -5
What was he teaching that was so off and away from the doctrine of "Truth"? nitro Basically, he allegedly argued that Jesus could not have sinned because he didn't have "human nature." I never heard him preach this but he reportedly discussed this doctrine with folks in private, especially some impressionable young workers. Even though I lived in AK at the time I decided I didn't want to get enmeshed in all the political wrangling, so I never got the whole "scoop." Sadly there are still unspoken but very obvious tensions in AK between the Truitt camp and the anti-Truitt camp nearly 20 years after the fact. And people from BOTH groups meet together in at least one Sunday meeting that I know of. Some of the testimonies get real interesting there! Truitt does not go to fellowship meetings, only gospel meetings.
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Post by Alaska resident on Mar 29, 2008 16:39:26 GMT -5
My understanding of the TO doctrine was that he stated that Jesus was 100% divine, and did not have a human nature. That's why Jesus did not sin. Man WILL sin, which gave them liberty to take 'liberties' with women and children.
They had so mesmerized people in AK, that one women said "Men will seduce, but it's up to the woman to say no." Another mother (of three girls) stated, "Probably he just wanted to satisfy himself". yuck
And I have heard that BI did have extremely huge funds socked away - in Saipan or somewhere?! And he's taken travels and met a sister worker in the Pacific, after he was removed from being a worker. And that piece of news was from a very honest other sister worker who was quite disgusted!
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Nichole M
Senior Member
I John 1:5 ..... God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Posts: 486
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Post by Nichole M on Mar 29, 2008 17:28:05 GMT -5
Just reading the posts here - I can see it is still clear that no one really knows what it was truitt was teaching that was so wrong. The only thing that I do remember was about Jesus not being able to sin. But the details of to why he couldn't I didn't ever hear. At that time I thought of course he could sin - why else did satan tempt Jesus.
Did Truitt think Jesus was 100% Devine - God - With no Human Nature Or did he believe that Jesus was both fully God and fully man?
Answers to what Truitt really believed would be speculative as it seems no one really knows. It seems that the workers in control at that time did their job of keeping people from really knowing what was going on.
But instead of just simply relegating what Truitt believed and was teaching as false simply because we are told that it is - What about finding out what he truly believes and studying the Bible to see if it does follow what is written.
I lived in Alaska during the time of the "Alaska Situation". But because I was totally convinced that the workers were right that I did not want to know what this other doctrine was. No I regret that.
Nichole
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A Truitt Appreciator
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Post by A Truitt Appreciator on Mar 29, 2008 22:50:53 GMT -5
Interesting Post.
I have had hours of long talks with Truitt about what he "believes" and why it is seen as so dangerous. I never really get my mind around what the workers see as the giant threat to humanity that Truitt seems to pose.
I just talked to him on the phone about a month ago and we discussed the same dumb 20 year old argument. The workers had been over to our house, made huge accusations about Truitt being involved and led astray by the Catholic church. Neither of these workers had ever met him and were just making sweeping statements about Truitt's beliefs based on hearsay. SO, as soon as they left, I called Truitt and again asked him everything. He is really interesting to talk to, upfront, frank, straight forward. He will talk and talk and talk about scripture. He's passionate about God. In the past years, that kind of passion and love of scripture is absent from many workers.
I always enjoyed talking to him. I also believes most of the same things he believes. It's not like I am a follower of Truitt. He's a follower of Jesus and so I am. If the workers actually listened to him, they would probably agree with him too. It's just that they all get so wacked out if a person even brings him up.
My husband and I have both talked to a worker who knows the "Alaska and Starkweather Situation" very well. Now that was someone who was not frank, not clear and could use to scripture to back up his thoughts.
If any of you what to talk to Truitt, call Alaskan information and get the phone number of a Judy Oyler in Anchorage. I got sick of hearing all the "this guy has been led astray and is leading others away from God BS" and just called him up and asked him what the deal was. He was great.
He loves God, loves Jesus, believes that Jesus was the fullness of the godhead in a human body, believes he is the savior of mankind. He also has a very interesting thought on true Israelites. Very interesting. Call him up. I know he'd love to hear from people who actually want to talk to him and not just condemn him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2008 23:34:58 GMT -5
Interesting Post. I have had hours of long talks with Truitt about what he "believes" and why it is seen as so dangerous. I never really get my mind around what the workers see as the giant threat to humanity that Truitt seems to pose. I just talked to him on the phone about a month ago and we discussed the same dumb 20 year old argument. The workers had been over to our house, made huge accusations about Truitt being involved and led astray by the Catholic church. Neither of these workers had ever met him and were just making sweeping statements about Truitt's beliefs based on hearsay. SO, as soon as they left, I called Truitt and again asked him everything. He is really interesting to talk to, upfront, frank, straight forward. He will talk and talk and talk about scripture. He's passionate about God. In the past years, that kind of passion and love of scripture is absent from many workers. I always enjoyed talking to him. I also believes most of the same things he believes. It's not like I am a follower of Truitt. He's a follower of Jesus and so I am. If the workers actually listened to him, they would probably agree with him too. It's just that they all get so wacked out if a person even brings him up. My husband and I have both talked to a worker who knows the "Alaska and Starkweather Situation" very well. Now that was someone who was not frank, not clear and could use to scripture to back up his thoughts. If any of you what to talk to Truitt, call Alaskan information and get the phone number of a Judy Oyler in Anchorage. I got sick of hearing all the "this guy has been led astray and is leading others away from God BS" and just called him up and asked him what the deal was. He was great. He loves God, loves Jesus, believes that Jesus was the fullness of the godhead in a human body, believes he is the savior of mankind. He also has a very interesting thought on true Israelites. Very interesting. Call him up. I know he'd love to hear from people who actually want to talk to him and not just condemn him. Thanks for this background. Personally, I would be interested in phoning him and chatting with him as it sounds like it could be an interesting conversation. I am a little reluctant though to disturb his privacy solely on the basis that a non-registered poster is recommending calling him, speculating that Truitt would be interested. I am wondering if any regular registered posters are of the same opinion that Truitt wouldn't mind a phone call from a non-acquaintance? It seems to me that Truitt has been slandered on a couple of possible fears. One is that his views of Jesus being unable to sin is in line with the Trinity doctrine which is not accepted by the Western ministry. I did hear years ago that the concern was that this view could lead to unmitigated sin amongst the friends. The other possible explanation is that Truitt seemed to be unusually popular with a growing number of friends. This is a huge no-no amongst the ministry group in the West. They watch the popularity factor amongst their peers like a hawk and take action to keep their peers down to the lowest common denominator. Many workers react badly if friends from their fields are phoning and discussing things with a worker from another field, which is what occurs when a gifted worker comes along. The usual reward for a gifted worker is to get moved around a lot, even nudged into foreign fields where they don't know the language. It seems that gifted workers actually get a similar treatment as the bad workers who cause troubles in their fields and get put down and moved out. I always wondered if TO fell into the "gifted worker" category and got shafted because of that.
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Post by carmorg on Mar 30, 2008 0:00:31 GMT -5
Monophysitism
Monophysitism is an error concerning the nature of Christ that asserts Jesus had only one nature, not two as is taught in the correct doctrine of the hypostatic union: Jesus is both God and man in one person. In monophysitism, the single nature was divine, not human. It is sometimes referred to as Eutychianism, after Eutyches 378-452, but there are slight differences. Monophysitism arose out of a reaction against Nestorianism which taught Jesus was two distinct persons instead of one. Its roots can even be traced back to Apollinarianism which taught that the divine nature of Christ overtook and replaced the human one.
Monophysitism was confined mainly to the Eastern church and had little influence in the West. In 451, the Council of Chalcedon attempted to establish a common ground between the monophysitists and the orthodox, but it did not work and divisions arose in the Eastern church which eventually excommunicated the monophysitists in the 6th century. The denial of the human nature of Christ is a denial of the true incarnation of the Word as a man. Without a true incarnation there can be no atonement of sin for mankind since it was not then a true man who died for our sins. It was condemned as heresy at the Sixth Ecumenical Council in 680-681.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 1:13:01 GMT -5
What has happened to Starkweather (can't remember his first name) Some kind of a whirlwind arround him as well.?
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Post by Gene on Mar 30, 2008 2:00:48 GMT -5
John Starkweather is in Bozeman Montana. I spent a lot of time with John when I was on the Texas staff and he was overseer there. I am very well acquainted with his and Truitt's beliefs.
To Clearday -- I know the anonymous poster -- you can trust what she wrote regarding Truitt.
How is "that doctrine" so dangerous in the eyes of traditional workers? Because it ultimately puts the emphasis on GRACE, leaving no room for WORKS as a means to salvation, thus would turn the f&w doctrine totally on its head. Just my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 3:24:09 GMT -5
Thanks Gene -- I am just curious, was John part of the original Montana staff when Tom Lyness was still living (and Montana was part of the east)?
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Post by Gene on Mar 30, 2008 5:35:41 GMT -5
Thanks Gene -- I am just curious, was John part of the original Montana staff when Tom Lyness was still living (and Montana was part of the east)? I'm pretty certain he was, Edgar. Some of the others on here would have more direct knowledge of those years.... Paul A.? Dennis J.?
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 30, 2008 6:28:28 GMT -5
Clearday
The other possible explanation is that Truitt seemed to be unusually popular with a growing number of friends. This is a huge no-no amongst the ministry group in the West. They watch the popularity factor amongst their peers like a hawk and take action to keep their peers down to the lowest common denominator. Many workers react badly if friends from their fields are phoning and discussing things with a worker from another field, which is what occurs when a gifted worker comes along. The usual reward for a gifted worker is to get moved around a lot, even nudged into foreign fields where they don't know the language. It seems that gifted workers actually get a similar treatment as the bad workers who cause troubles in their fields and get put down and moved out. I always wondered if TO fell into the "gifted worker" category and got shafted because of that. I do not believe this is unique with western ministry but true universally. I witnessed it in New England and here in Florida. Thanks for putting into words what has lingered in my thoughts for sometime
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 6:34:52 GMT -5
Clearday The other possible explanation is that Truitt seemed to be unusually popular with a growing number of friends. This is a huge no-no amongst the ministry group in the West. They watch the popularity factor amongst their peers like a hawk and take action to keep their peers down to the lowest common denominator. Many workers react badly if friends from their fields are phoning and discussing things with a worker from another field, which is what occurs when a gifted worker comes along. The usual reward for a gifted worker is to get moved around a lot, even nudged into foreign fields where they don't know the language. It seems that gifted workers actually get a similar treatment as the bad workers who cause troubles in their fields and get put down and moved out. I always wondered if TO fell into the "gifted worker" category and got shafted because of that. I do not believe this is unique with western ministry but true universally. I witnessed it in New England and here in Florida. Thanks for putting into words what has lingered in my thoughts for sometime It is a matter of politics, workers are only allowed to be popular if it is sure that they are under the thumb of leadership. Independant and popular/respected workers are a threat. Edgar Also thanks Gene --- I have become a bit facinated by the east/west sea-saw/split in North America --- also by its effect on the colonies that these respective factions have established in other countries. Europe and South America etc etc -- and of course the immerging subsystems in the former Soviet union.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 7:11:22 GMT -5
Gene, thanks for the confirmation of Truit's openness. I will call him when I get a chance.
carmorg, that is a significant mouthful to swallow. Monophysitism, Eutychianism, hypostatic union, Nestorianism, Apollinarianism and I suppose there are more theologies yet. Pinch me, and when I awake outside the theological nightmare jungle I will remind myself to just let God be God, and Christ be Christ.
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Post by Truitt Appreciator on Mar 30, 2008 8:51:14 GMT -5
Hi Clearday
I am registered. I am Skippy. I just don't always long in if I happen to think of a better name. I know John and Truitt. You can PM me if you want to.
Thanks,
Pam
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 9:03:35 GMT -5
Hi Clearday I am registered. I am Skippy. I just don't always long in if I happen to think of a better name. I know John and Truitt. You can PM me if you want to. Thanks, Pam Thanks Pam, your unregistered post certainly rang true but I've been fooled before (at least once ) so I wanted to try to confirm it, which Gene did, and you too. I like to respect people's privacy and I know that the average person would freak out with fear and suspicion getting a call from an unknown person asking about their religious views and church past.
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Post by Skippy unlogged on Mar 30, 2008 9:16:47 GMT -5
You're welcome Clearday,
I'll try to call Truitt this afternoon and tell him that there are a couple of folks who would like to chat. He is not one to get very rattled. What I have seen and heard from him, he is the kind of man you would want next to you if you were heading to war: level headed, clear vision, courageous and smart. I also saw him at his parents' dining room table weeping openly about scripture and what Jesus means to all of us.
I consider him a brother in Christ.
Take care Friend and happy chatty.
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