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Post by prue on Jun 3, 2006 2:13:32 GMT -5
Hi Ilylo. You mentioned "Facts" about the bible. Facts in the bible are very problematic, and clearly God has assured there are few provable things about the scripture - to the intent we may believe through faith.
What possibilities are there about verses relating to standards of dress and hair?
1 - the author was speaking of his own opinion, claiming they were God's 2 - the author's words have been mistranslated. 3 - dress standard was for that generation and not ours. 4 - we don't have to live by anything these men left on record 5 - the author was guided by the spirit, and these words are meant for every generation.
Can anyone add any other possibilities as to why Paul said there was a standard of dress for God's people? It would be good if everyone on this board could agree on a list.
prue and bert
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Post by prue on Jun 3, 2006 2:26:14 GMT -5
Hi Jessie You said "Clothing or jewelry did not matter to Paul, true"Paul said that jewelry did matter because the true ornament was the heart. If you want to appear beautiful, be beautiful to God, not to the world. And clothing mattered because it speaks of yourself. Not the clothing of the people who can't afford good clothing, but clothing as in garments that show people wanting to relate to, identify with, show association, conform to, speak of - the world Paul rejected. bert writing for prue Jessie, it is very dangerous to disassociate Paul from Jesus. This is all a part of the so-called "Pauline Christianity" theory. That is to say, James rather than Paul expressed the true Christ. This theory is growing in popularity as it adds ambiguity to the clear message Paul gave in the foundation church, and thus attempts to overthrow it. This is what Robert Eisenman and Jeffrey Bütz try to do in their books on James and Jesus - and their books are marvels of half truths. bert
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Post by hi6 on Jun 3, 2006 7:29:22 GMT -5
Specific descriptions of dress in the bible are limited. Thus people tend to see the bible in Victorian English traditions. We really don't know. Could it be that it doesn't matter. Or maybe it was meant for Eldon Tenniswood to decide what was appropriate for a "true child of God" in 1982!!
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Post by Jessi on Jun 3, 2006 9:29:02 GMT -5
Prubert, whoever you are, your veiled, superfluous statements make no biblical sense. When I read your posts, I pray for you.
I have never read any of these books. I am sorry that you are so confused about God and His Christ. I have no theory other that the Christ of God is the only way to salvation of the soul.
Here's my suggestion to you: Stop studying the counterfeit and go immediately to the Living Word, the real thing. Pray that Holy God will give you understanding and then begin to read. That way, you will know the counterfeit when it comes along.
I will pray for you.
Christ's forever, Jessi
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 3, 2006 10:10:18 GMT -5
Here's my suggestion to you: Stop studying the counterfeit and go immediately to the Living Word, the real thing. Pray that Holy God will give you understanding and then begin to read. That way, you will know the counterfeit when it comes along. I heard that counterfeit money detection is based on knowing the true article. The detectors study only the real (true) denominations of money. They know every aspect of the "bill". They don't bother with "someone might print this area wrong" or "somone might use this type of paper (linen)" or "somone might use this type of ink". They just know the real thing and then the counterfeit sticks out.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 3, 2006 10:36:50 GMT -5
Yes, pruebert, I mentioned facts because your post (#79) contained none.
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Post by TheRealTender on Jun 3, 2006 10:39:22 GMT -5
Seems like you characters have found the real currency, even if it looks, feels and smells nothing like the original tender!
When you pray, do you ask God to show you His will? I doubt it when you believe none of His will is really necessary in this modern age.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 3, 2006 10:41:20 GMT -5
Seems like you characters have found the real currency, even if it looks, feels and smells nothing like the original tender! When you pray, do you ask God to show you His will? I doubt it when you believe none of His will is really necessary in this modern age. The expert has spoken.
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Post by Albertan on Jun 3, 2006 11:18:55 GMT -5
It seems that clothing is not just important to the workers. What about the Mennonites, the Hutterites, the 1st Apostolic Church? Why is it that their women all have long hair and wear dresses?
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Post by Scorning the bible on Jun 3, 2006 11:20:10 GMT -5
hi6. you said descriptions of clothes were limited. yes they were because the bible is written for all generations, and thus cannot cocern itself with the fashions of that particular time and place. Rather, what the bible says is that God's people must present themselves in modesty, sobriety, gravity, without fashions, accepting ridicule, standing apart and so on. This business of yours about "victorian" fashions - please don't sit in the seat of scorners.
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Post by Scorning the bible on Jun 3, 2006 11:23:15 GMT -5
that's the appearance acceptable to God. long hair is scriptural in a direct and specific way, dresses is indirect in that dresses represent the conservative values Paul spoke about.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2006 19:37:34 GMT -5
In my observation, the workers who actually make the rules are not really hung up on clothing. What they are hung up on is CONTROL and clothing is just one of many ways to dominate their underlings. It is true that some lower level workers get hung up on the small things, but they are typically at the flunky level.
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Post by hi6 on Jun 3, 2006 19:42:12 GMT -5
Scorning, what you present are only your opionions. Do a search of wore, wear, clothing, raiment, etc. and see what you come up with in your search. Proves to me that it isn't important as those in "the truth" who are stuck in Victorian turn of the 20th century clothing styles. Look at an old movie focusing of life in the late 19th century and see if the women don't look like professing women! The Little House on the Prarie etc.. Workers didn't invent the dress code. They just believe that Jesus doesn't change so why should "His People!" All women once looked like professing women! But the hair started gettting shorter in the 1920s and pants started showing up as women worked in factories while men were fighting in WW II in the 1940s. WHY do workers INSIST that women MUST dress a certain way? It can be nothing else but control disguised in a concern for one's soul.
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Post by controlling on Jun 3, 2006 21:00:25 GMT -5
paul was the same, always controlling people, telling them what to wear
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Jun 3, 2006 21:50:47 GMT -5
I don't get why pants are a no-no, but nothing is said about cleavage and thong underwear and tight, tight clothes. Now that is immodest! How are cleavage and thong underwear immodest? I would say judging such things, is in fact.....Judgmental!
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Post by hgh online on Jun 3, 2006 21:56:26 GMT -5
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why not nipple rings
Guest
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Post by why not nipple rings on Jun 3, 2006 22:26:04 GMT -5
juju, i am all for thongs and cleavage in home service. i like nipple rings too, and tatts are great - just so long as you show these around.
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Post by hi6 on Jun 4, 2006 12:08:03 GMT -5
If you read the instructions of Paul and Peter in their letters, it is very general. Some professing folks are wanting to say the disciples and Jesus were interested in clothing. Jesus said to TAKE NO THOUGHT of thy raimant. You can't find more than 3 verses in the NT relating to clothing. Proves to me it isn't as important as some overseers claim! When you read Eldon's 1982 Young People Meeting, you see that clothing is a CONTROL devise. A way of keeping women under control.
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Post by learning mode on Jun 4, 2006 12:52:09 GMT -5
"you don't understand what Paul was trying to say. its not an issue of braided hair, or even of wearing gold. in those times both these things represented something Paul felt were not suitable for the people of God. today excessive displays of wealth, shaved heads, tattoos, body piercing, exposed undergarments and so on would be things Paul would speak against. "
Prude/Prune So why is it an issue of dresses and hair length in these times. These times are markedly different than those times. You just fouled your argument!
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Post by Brick on Jun 4, 2006 13:56:05 GMT -5
Think on this: you have a flat tire beside the road in a remote location. A dusty old pickup truck pulls up and out climbs an overweight man, wearing a bandanna, dark sunglasses, several days growth of beard, and arms covered with tattoos. He has a tire iron in his hand. What do you think his intentions are? Are you scared?
Let's change the character's appearance and see what the reaction is: now a middle aged man wearing jeans, work boots, t-shirt, and a John Deer ball cap get out of the pickup. Feel any different? I sure do. I'm glad to see one and scared of the other.
We are SO affected by appearances that it is important that we judge wisely how we look, because we can't very well help someone if they are intimidated by our appearance. The intimidation could be because we look scary, too wealthy, too poor (low classed), too different (dressed for skiing/cycling/tennis/beach in an unrelated place). So yes, I believe that appearances are important. However, for me to tell you that a certain article of clothing is forbidden, I am using control mechanisms to make you do something. If I become your friend because I am nonthreatening (my appearance and attitude makes you feel comfortable around me) and I make it known to you that I am a little uncomfortable with you showing your whale tale above your pants, or seeing your shirt not reach your skirt or pants, you may be inclined to change those things in order to make me more comfortable with you.
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Post by I think on Jun 5, 2006 12:53:59 GMT -5
If the workers think they can intimidate you, they will. If they think you aren't afraid of their warnings, they may leave you alone. They know who they can push around! This is true of clothing or entertainment.
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Post by hrl on Aug 10, 2006 22:37:18 GMT -5
Why are clothes hung up on workers?
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Post by Me too Brick on Aug 11, 2006 11:39:45 GMT -5
Think on this: you have a flat tire beside the road in a remote location. A dusty old pickup truck pulls up and out climbs an overweight man, wearing a bandanna, dark sunglasses, several days growth of beard, and arms covered with tattoos. He has a tire iron in his hand. What do you think his intentions are? Are you scared? Let's change the character's appearance and see what the reaction is: now a middle aged man wearing jeans, work boots, t-shirt, and a John Deer ball cap get out of the pickup. Feel any different? I sure do. I'm glad to see one and scared of the other. At least you know the guy with the tire iron has brought his own tools and is set to help you change the tire. The John Deer cap is the give away for the serial killer. I feel the middle aged man is lonely and is just looking for a date and will be of little of no help in getting the tire changed. I do not feel scared unless he thinks I will be serving a snack because I did not pack the crackers and cheese and I hate to have guests go hungry. And you do not want to be around a hungry serial killer. Maybe I should try forgoing the face mask and the used leather butcher's apron when I venture out!
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Post by I heard on Aug 11, 2006 11:43:45 GMT -5
I heard the workers had a financial interest in a chain of Victorian Style boutiques. But it is a Secret so don't let it out.
What is under those conservative clothes would make your eyes pop!
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Aug 11, 2006 14:37:21 GMT -5
I'll go out on a limb and say that I do think that what we wear, in terms of modesty, is important. I believe that Paul meant that people should wear/dress, etc in a manner that would have been considered modest for that time. I do not believe that this has changed over time..
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